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Post by Jill Havern on 17.02.19 13:22

"And that's when I noticed that Madeleine was there"

- that's what I hear i don\'t know
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Post by worriedmum on 17.02.19 17:38

@Verdi wrote:Firstly, it can't be said with any certainty that Kate McCann said .... 'and that's when I noticed Madeleine was there'.  The sound is very poor quality and personally I don't believe anyone would make such a crass error during an interview that was so casually conducted.  Of course, if that's what one wants to hear, one will hear.


00:56 seconds

Would you say 'I noticed xyz was there' when xyz was expected to be there?  If the there meant somewhere other than the bed, wouldn't a slip of the tongue more likely be associated with something more significant?  Having gone through the well rehearsed story so many times, I think such a simple error highly unlikely - but then, I'm not a statement analyst.

Why the cock 'n bull story about the 10:00pm check;  the slamming door;  the empty bed;  the swooshing curtain;  the preamble about the other players leading up to the main event?

That aside, a tragic accident could be so easily explained.  Kids are probably most vulnerable in the domestic environment, unforeseeable/unavoidable accidents happen all the time.

Why the cover-up?
And yet I can hear every word. And Mrs McCann looks rather uncomfortable as she looks over to her husband after she had said it.
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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 17:48

Edna Glynn...

Was she the woman who entered apartment 5A on evening 1st May 2007, as a result of being contacted by telephone earlier (at about 11pm) by Mrs Fenn? And,  was the fact that according to Mrs Fenn the bout of prolonged crying which had started at around 10.30pm, only stopped at the time she heard the patio door slide open, or as the case may be, slide shut?

Did the crying stop when it did because Edna Glynn went to apartment 5A to see what the problem was?

I remember a news report which got published in the early days of the case, where it made mention to the fact that on the evening of the crying episode that a couple had entered apartment 5A in response to a child crying uncontrollably! I would be interested to know what Mrs Fenn had  said to Edna Glynn when she phoned her up, and of course, I would like to know what if anything Edna Glynn had done if anything in response to being contacted by Mrs Fenn..
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Post by sharonl on 17.02.19 17:57

It is unclear from various statements whether Mrs Fenn called Edna Glyn, Jenny Murat, Robert Murat, or anyone at all.

Was Edna Glyn in PDL or the Uk?

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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 18:59

@sharonl wrote:It is unclear from various statements whether Mrs Fenn called Edna Glyn, Jenny Murat, Robert Murat, or anyone at all.

Was Edna Glyn in PDL or the Uk?


Mrs Fenn called Edna Glynn on evening 1st May 2007 at around 11pm, both women lived in Praia de Luz. Mrs Fenn confirms this in her witness statement, dated, 20th August 2007, that she made in Praia de Luz


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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 19:01

Why isn't there a disclosed witness statement about this matter made by Edna Glynn?
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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 19:15

According to Mrs Fenn, Gerry McCann was back on the patio verandah by 10.30pm on evening 3rd May 2007 - ample time for him to have been the man seen by the Smith contingent at 10pm heading downhill toward the coastline. Dump the body and get back up to his apartment (5A) in order to be seen and spoken to by Mrs Fenn..
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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 20:23

The mystery couple, are believed to be middle aged, a man and a woman ( not Mrs Fenn and Edna Glynn)..

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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 20:29

I think the Carpenter Couple were the people who entered the McCann apartment!
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Post by Verdi on 17.02.19 20:46

Make up your mind - but do try to use an authoritative source and not the press.

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Post by sharonl on 17.02.19 21:18

And please do bare in mind that it is within the interest of the McCanns to keep the focus on May 3rd.

Also bare in mind that at least one of their PIs was caught bribing witnesses to say that they had seen Madeleine in Morocco, in which case it is quite likely that this also went on in PDL.  

Please focus on actual evidence and not the word of the suspects, low credibility witnesses and the press.

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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 21:43

@Verdi wrote:Make up your mind - but do try to use an authoritative source and not the press.

The Carpenter couple entering the McCann apartment on evening  / night 1st / 2nd May 2007, does not mean that I am saying they took Madeleine. I mention it because I think we can safely assume that Madeleine was still alive at the time Mrs Fenn witness the crying episode..
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Post by sharonl on 17.02.19 21:58

Even if Mrs Fenn was a credible witness, there is no guarantee that the child she claimed to have heard was Madeleine.  It could have been any of the children in the group.

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Post by Mike Tesko on 17.02.19 23:52

@sharonl wrote:Even if Mrs Fenn was a credible witness, there is no guarantee that the child she claimed to have heard was Madeleine.  It could have been any of the children in the group.

Mrs Fenn distinguished the difference between the type of crying she witnessed as not being of a toddler, in the age bracket of Amelia and Sean (without naming them) but that of a more mature child, accompanied by the words, 'Daddy, daddy'..
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Post by Verdi on 17.02.19 23:57

@Mike Tesko wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Make up your mind - but do try to use an authoritative source and not the press.

The Carpenter couple entering the McCann apartment on evening  / night 1st / 2nd May 2007, does not mean that I am saying they took Madeleine. I mention it because I think we can safely assume that Madeleine was still alive at the time Mrs Fenn witness the crying episode..
I make no mention of the Carpenters or anyone else taking Madeleine - indeed it is evident that Madeleine was not taken, as in abducted, by anyone.

My mind boggles as to why you should suggest the Carpenters entered the apartment occupied by the McCann family.  In all the years following this case I've not seen a single reason to suppose such a ridiculous notion.

In a matter of days you've racked-up in excess of 80 posts, you initiated this thread which you have virtually dominated with random inconsistent commentary that leads nowhere but up the garden path.

Why are you here Mark Tesko?

You seriously need to come up with some plausible theory worthy of discussion to justify your presence or this thread will be locked.

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Post by Verdi on 18.02.19 0:05

@Mike Tesko wrote:
@sharonl wrote:Even if Mrs Fenn was a credible witness, there is no guarantee that the child she claimed to have heard was Madeleine.  It could have been any of the children in the group.

Mrs Fenn distinguished the difference between the type of crying she witnessed as not being of a toddler, in the age bracket of Amelia and Sean (without naming them) but that of a more mature child, accompanied by the words, 'Daddy, daddy'..
Pamela Fenn lived above the holiday apartment occupied by the McCann family.  As a matter of course she would have been routinely interviewed by the PJ in the hours following Madeleine McCann's alleged disappearance.  There is no witness statement on record until Pamela Fenn was interviewed on 20th August 2007.

When informally interviewed in the hours of late 3rd May and early 4th May 2007, she couldn't have given any information to assist the investigation i.e. didn't see anything, hear anything or know anything.

You need to consider why over three months later, Pamela Fenn suddenly decided she did have potentially important information to assist the investigation into the disappearance of a three year old child.

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Post by Mike Tesko on 18.02.19 0:29

@Verdi wrote:
@Mike Tesko wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Make up your mind - but do try to use an authoritative source and not the press.

The Carpenter couple entering the McCann apartment on evening  / night 1st / 2nd May 2007, does not mean that I am saying they took Madeleine. I mention it because I think we can safely assume that Madeleine was still alive at the time Mrs Fenn witness the crying episode..
I make no mention of the Carpenters or anyone else taking Madeleine - indeed it is evident that Madeleine was not taken, as in abducted, by anyone.

My mind boggles as to why you should suggest the Carpenters entered the apartment occupied by the McCann family.  In all the years following this case I've not seen a single reason to suppose such a ridiculous notion.

In a matter of days you've racked-up in excess of 80 posts, you initiated this thread which you have virtually dominated with random inconsistent commentary that leads nowhere but up the garden path.

Why are you here Mark Tesko?

You seriously need to come up with some plausible theory worthy of discussion to justify your presence or this thread will be locked.


You are a bully!

I will no longer tolerate the persistent abuse you are aiming at me!

Close the thread down, I will never post anything on this internet site..
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Post by PeterMac on 18.02.19 8:45

We can all get back to work again. Leave your toys by the pram, will you !

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Post by Flossy on 18.02.19 8:54

Have the Mccanns always maintained that the shutters were up on that last check?
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Post by Verdi on 18.02.19 12:02

@Flossy wrote:Have the Mccanns always maintained that the shutters were up on that last check?

Gerry McCann's witness statement - 4th May 2007

At about 22.00 it was his wife Kate who went to check on the children. She entered the apartment by the door using the key and saw immediately that the door to the children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the blinds were raised and the curtains were drawn open.
The side door leading to the living room was closed, which as previously stated, was never left locked.

Gerry McCann's witness statement - 10th May 2007

Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house.

----- The deponent ran the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.

----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside.

Gerry McCann's arguido statement - 10th September 2007

When questioned, he states that from the first moment, after the first fruitless searches, he thought that Madeleine had been abducted and it was this information that he gave to everyone to whom he spoke. He reached such a conclusion because he did not think it possible that she had gone out on her own or opened the blinds and window in the room.

Kate McCanns witness statement - 4th May 2007

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

Kate McCann was not re-interviewed during the second round on 10th/11th May, she was too traumatised - allegedly.

Kate McCann's statement - 6th September 2007

At 10PM she got up from the table, as it was her turn after having been replaced by Matt. She entered the apartment by the veranda door which was closed, but as already said, not locked.

At this moment, and because it was so late, 11 PM, the interview was interrupted and will be continued tomorrow morning.

Kate McCann arguido statement - 7th September 2007

Kate McCann declined to answer any of the 49 questions posed during this interview except the last..

49 --- Asked if she is aware that her failure to respond to the questions put in the cause of the investigation, which seeks to know what happened to her daughter, she replied that

yes, if the investigation so thinks.

--- Asked if she has anything to add,

she responded negatively.
....................

This story line was continued over the ensuing months and years. I can't say with certainty that it featured in every interview but it was again plugged during the Oprah Winfrey show broadcast in May (that month again) 2009 and indeed at a later date when interviewed for Crimewatch, the 10th anniversary production if I remember rightly.


https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14479-key-witness-statements-for-information-only#372885

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Post by Verdi on 18.02.19 12:05

Gerry McCann witness statement

---- When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04. He remembers that once inside the apartment he thought strange only the fact of the door to the children's room being slightly more open than how the defendant had left it when he and Kate left for dinner.

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Post by Verdi on 18.02.19 12:14

BOO !!! hello

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Post by Flossy on 18.02.19 12:46

Thanks for that Verdi. Has there been any explanation as to why the shutters were then photographed shut. Who shut those shutters, if indeed, they were found open by Kate.
There are only two options as far as I can see it:
1. There were not opened and the crime scene photos are an accurate representation
2. There was interference of the crime scene and in which case the photos do not represent how Kate found the apartment. In which case who closed the shutters and why?
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Post by PeterMac on 18.02.19 14:49

@Flossy wrote:Thanks for that Verdi. Has there been any explanation as to why the shutters were then photographed shut. Who shut those shutters, if indeed, they were found open by Kate.
There are only two options as far as I can see it:
1. There were not opened and the crime scene photos are an accurate representation
2. There was interference of the crime scene and in which case the photos do not represent how Kate found the apartment. In which case who closed the shutters and why?
 I think there may be more options.
3 . According to Gerrys statement they were open, then HE shut them from the inside, then went outside and HE opened them from outside. 
At which point, if we accept the official McCann version, they would remain OPEN.

In fact they do not.
How do we know, know, that ?
Because I tried it, and was videoed doing so. 

You can push them up about two thirds of the way, but then the shutter crunches up into the box above the window which contains the roller mechanism.
And when you let go they clatter back down again.
But the official McCann version cannot state that, and people insisting on abduction cannot accept it,  for very obvious reasons.

So here is the video which you can find at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuMzyaCnnY


And for the avoidance of doubt, that is me, and that is the shutter in question. Not as some tried to suggest, a different shutter in another place ! 

So that takes us back from the fantasy of the shutters being opened from the outside by Gerry, and left open, to the fact that even if he had done that, they would now be closed.
Unless he then opened them again, from the inside, they would be in the closed position, and we are not told that he did so.

And let us never forget that BOTH McCann parents clearly told family and close friends that evening, by phone, that the shutters had been variously 
Smashed, broken, forced, and jemmied
McCann apologists accurately point out that there is no first hand record of the McCanns actually saying those words, 
but that is to impugn the veracity and powers of recollection of their nearest and dearest
who were all very clear when they severally spoke to various media outlets later in the day.

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Post by PeterMac on 18.02.19 14:58

Less than 24 hrs Earlier - 'the tragedy'... - Page 3 Squirr10

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