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Post by NickE on 26.11.18 6:11

@Constablekid wrote:I think Operation Grange have been watching too much telly- this is the plot of that BBC drama, The Missing.

Also, if Operation Grange are suggesting that Madeleine died in a car accident, are her parents going to sue the British police as well for saying this as it will stop people searching for her and sending in their pocket money.
If they actually are investigate a car accident I wonder if they are looking at Jenny Murat's story about the "wrong way car" at 9pm.

"Jenny Murat has spoken of seeing a car driving the wrong way down a one-way street around the time she vanished.
Mrs Murat, who lives around 100 yards from the Ocean Club complex where the McCanns were staying, said she saw a car driving the wrong way down a one-way street at around 9pm on May 3, 2007.
I saw the driver, I was beside the driver. Both of us looked at each other. I think he had a very British look about him."



And I also wonder if Murat's story has something to do with Haley May Crawfords statement.


"After her boyfriend had completed the service, at about 21H00, they went to the resort reception with the aim of her boyfriend collecting a service vehicle.

For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.
 
When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.
 
When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15."

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Post by Roidininki on 26.11.18 6:55

@Constablekid wrote:I think Operation Grange have been watching too much telly- this is the plot of that BBC drama, The Missing.

Also, if Operation Grange are suggesting that Madeleine died in a car accident, are her parents going to sue the British police as well for saying this as it will stop people searching for her and sending in their pocket money.
Yes I remembered  that plot too  ! They buried the body under a road didn’t they ?

Re  what Jenny Murat said .  Who did the 9 p.m check on apt.5a ? Madeleine would have had to have been out of the apt. If it was this car who had or was going g to knock her down ?
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Post by Verdi on 26.11.18 11:41

Remember this is a tabloid press report - not any old tabloid but The Sun, the lowest of the low.

Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 1f31e

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Post by Roidininki on 26.11.18 12:00

@Verdi wrote:Remember this is a tabloid press report - not any old tabloid but The Sun, the lowest of the low.

Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 1f31e
The Mail Online article  too ?
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Post by sammyc on 26.11.18 14:09

The McCanns have hit back at the claims calling them an insult according to Tracey Kandohla in the Sun updated at 1.53pm.  Can anyone copy the link?
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Post by Verdi on 26.11.18 14:11

MADELEINE 'INSULT'

Kate and Gerry McCann hit back at claims Madeleine woke up and left the apartment while they were eating tapas with friends

Detectives leading the £11.75m hunt for Maddie are re-visiting the theory she walked out of the flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, alone

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are convinced their daughter was kidnapped and have dismissed "insulting" claims she could have woken up and wandered out of their holiday apartment.

Brit detectives leading the £11.75m investigation into Maddie's disappearance are re-examining a theory she left her family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, to look for her parents.

But Gerry and Kate McCann have branded the theory "ridiculous" as heavy shutters found open in the bedroom where their children were sleeping would have to have been opened by Maddie.

A family source said: "Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted and simply didn’t get up and wander off to her fate.
"To suggest this is almost ridiculous.

"There were heavy shutters which would have been impossible for a small child to open."

They spoke out after a source told The Sun on Sunday cops are pursuing two vital new leads over the 2007 mystery.

The source, in Portugal, told the newspaper: “A meeting took place recently at the HQ of the General Attorney’s Office, which was attended by the prosecutor from Portimao who is in charge of the Portuguese inquiry.

"One of the lines of investigation that continues to be pursued is that Maddie could have walked out of the holiday flat herself.”

Kate has previously disputed in detail the possibility Maddie was taken after wandering off or suffered a fatal accident - a theory first probed by the Portuguese police.

In her harrowing 2011 book about her daughter's disappearance, she stated: “I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence.

“Obviously, the police are obliged to consider all possible scenarios but there was no doubt in our minds that Madeleine had not left the apartment on her own accord.

"There was no way a three-year-old would have been able to raise the shutters and open the window in the children’s room.

"To give any credence whatsoever to that idea that Madeleine could have walked out on her own you would have to accept that she had gone out the back way, pulling aside the sitting room curtains and drawing them again, then opening the patio doors, the child safety gate at the top of the stairs on the veranda and the little gate to the road - and carefully closing all three behind her.

“What three-year-old do you know who would do that? And we knew our Madeleine. She simply would not wander off like this.

"The theory was not only insulting it was, much more importantly, frighteningly damaging to the chances of finding Madeleine quickly."

Former GP Kate, 50, also spoke about the shutters in a TV interview with American chat show queen Oprah Winfrey to mark the second anniversary of Maddie’s disappearance in May 2007.

She said: "That was when I knew that someone had taken her. It was obvious, because a child could not open those shutters."

Portuguese cops in the initial bungled inquiry, headed by Goncalo Amaral - who the McCann's are still locked in a long-running libel battle with - speculated the youngster could have walked off down the hill and fallen into a big roadworks pit where she died.

Another theory was that she was knocked unconscious and her body was not discovered when the hole was filled over the following day.
Operation Grange has previously said they believe Maddie was snatched or taken during a burglary gone wrong.

The McCann source said: “Whatever the Met Police are doing, which the public is not privy to, is as much as to rule scenarios and suspects out as to rule them in."

Kate, now a medical worker, and heart doctor Gerry, 50, from Rothley, Leics, hold onto a glimmer of hope that Maddie - who would now be aged 15 - could still be alive.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7828725/madeleine-mccann-parents-slam-claims-she-wasnt-kidnapped/

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Post by sammyc on 26.11.18 14:26

Thanks Verdi that was quick!.  I can't get me 'ead round most of the stuff the Mc's say but this a good 'un.  So one minute the McCann's are saying the doors were left open so Madeleine could find them if needed but next minute she couldn't have possibly got out of the apartment and simply wandered off.  Am I going doolally confused
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Post by Verdi on 26.11.18 15:01

@sammyc wrote:Am I going doolally  confused

Nah, this is where the problem lies (in more ways than one)..

Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Oliveo10

Olive Oyl - The Daily Tablet [circa. May 2007-November 2018]

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Post by sar on 26.11.18 15:21

"Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted" indeed they have
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Post by Doug D on 26.11.18 16:56

Should ‘our Trace’ not have split the credit for this one with PeterMac (#19), as it’s clearly where she picked up on this one?
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Post by Tony Bennett on 26.11.18 17:12

@Verdi wrote:MADELEINE 'INSULT'

Kate and Gerry McCann hit back at claims Madeleine woke up and left the apartment while they were eating tapas with friends

Detectives leading the £11.75m hunt for Maddie are re-visiting the theory she walked out of the flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, alone

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are convinced their daughter was kidnapped and have dismissed "insulting" claims she could have woken up and wandered out of their holiday apartment.

Therefore they were likewise 'insulted' when pretend copper/criminologist Mark Williams-Thomas also came up with the 'wandered off' theory on SKY News about a year ago

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by willowthewisp on 26.11.18 17:31

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:MADELEINE 'INSULT'

Kate and Gerry McCann hit back at claims Madeleine woke up and left the apartment while they were eating tapas with friends

Detectives leading the £11.75m hunt for Maddie are re-visiting the theory she walked out of the flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, alone

By Tracey Kandohla
26th November 2018, 11:13 am
Updated: 26th November 2018, 1:53 pm

MADELEINE McCann’s parents are convinced their daughter was kidnapped and have dismissed "insulting" claims she could have woken up and wandered out of their holiday apartment.

Therefore they were likewise 'insulted' when pretend copper/criminologist Mark Williams-Thomas also came up with the 'wandered off' theory on SKY News about a year ago
If you believe Mark William's Thomas,he was responsible for un-covering Savile and his pals,but not whilst he was alive?
Mark Willam's Thomas has also obtained recordings from past Journalists,where he has friends from the Media,Music enterprise naming person's believed to have been involved in child Abuse,but these same person's have won undisclosed amounts paid out by UK Police Forces for "False Allegations" possibly based on this person's collection from his rather dubious past!

Could Mark William's Thomas be described as a "Fantasist,Liar",yet to be brought before any UK Crown Court on "Perverting a Course of Justice",remember the Jill Dando investigation access to 52,000 pages of "Official Police files" claim on his review into Jills unsolved Murder,why would the Police allow access on an unsolved Murder!
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Post by Cmaryholmes on 26.11.18 18:42

I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid  for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.
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Post by sharonl on 26.11.18 18:57

@Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid  for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media. There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.

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Post by Sceptic on 26.11.18 22:54

@sharonl wrote:
@Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid  for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media.  There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.                    
IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

IMHO the REAL NEWS in the story is

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

2) The Portuguese Prosecuter was present at the recent meeting between the two forces - as per our CPS who advise the investigating force if there is sufficient evidence to charge and what is required to proceed to court
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Post by loopzdaloop on 26.11.18 23:26

cracking by the police. come up with a new idea and it might benefit from being investigated with interviews. it has already forced the mccanns to say something different and they look daft being this dismissive already. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html
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Post by sar on 26.11.18 23:28

+1 Sceptic
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Post by loopzdaloop on 26.11.18 23:30

@Phoebe wrote:@ Roidininki Of course they didn't tell the truth! However, their tale re. the "crime scene" now sees them hoisted by their own petard.
 In order for this woke and wandered nonsense to be acceptable (and leaving aside the dogs' and other evidence) the McCanns would have to admit that they lied about the state of the apartment. Now they are in a horrible bind. If they admit to having fibbed to the police and public about the state of the apartment when they "discovered Madeleine missing" then nothing else they say will be trusted.

Great Phoebe, you called it precisely. They have reinforced today that the shutters were too heavy :)
The noose is tightening. Check out https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6429815/Gerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html

The problem is, kids can do this (as described by daily mail readers below) so for them to be so adamant it did not happen and dismiss it - is another redflag in the large book. 

Following taken from the comments: 



The Grinch1, Reading, United Kingdom, 8 hours ago
I came home from a night shift to find my two year old son had dirt on the soles of his sleep suit. It transpired that he had unlocked the front door and taken himself out for a walk whilst my husband was in bed asleep. I was scared silly at what could've happened to him. Needless to say, we fitted extra locks to the door. He did it again at a caravan park we holidayed at, so we had to barricade the doors. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Madeline wandered off as i believe the door was unlocked, and the apartment backed on to a service road.

Hummmm, Derby, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
Parenting 101.






Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Dummy_148x178
Nikki1111, Wakefield, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
Glad he is safe







Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Dummy_148x178
BrokenSoul, Harrogate, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
I slept walked and let me myself out of a house apparentlyI couldn't unlock.. still did it and turned up asleep at my mates... dismissing how could they? Been fans of them, clearly they are very upset and don't know what happened.. but dismissing this.. sorry no...very much could have happened... no grounds for them dismissing it


Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Dummy_148x178
Louise, Glasgow, United Kingdom, 5 hours ago
My brother (who is 33 now!) put on his wellies and a mismatched outfit when he was a toddler, at 6am, when no-one was yet up, unlocked the door, and went out looking for someone to play with. Mercifully he was playing by himself only a few gardens away. Mum nearly had a heart attack when she got up for breakfast!


Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Dummy_148x178
garden rose, Merseyside, United Kingdom, 4 hours ago
They are resourceful little tykes. When my daughter was 2 she could also unlock and open the door. I was so naive to the fact she at that age would learn from us how to do that. Frightened the life out of me!



Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Dummy_148x178
Chicky, Portsmouth, 4 hours ago
Similar experience with my son, we were away & daughter kept me awake all night with earache. I fell asleep in her room, my son climbed out of his travel cot got down the stairs & opened the front door. First thing I knew about it was someone shouting hello thru the opened door. He was outside wandering in the street!!! I've never been so shocked & scared in my life.



Operation Grange re-examine theory that Madeleine woke up and wandered - Page 2 Dummy_148x178
Marshminkmellow, Crawley, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
I fear my youngest will do this and I wouldn't put it past him! He's only 2 but very self willed! All my doors are locked and keys up high. Stair gates on the bedroom. I would do anything to keep my kids safe. Why didn't they? 

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Post by loopzdaloop on 26.11.18 23:45

@Sceptic wrote:
@sharonl wrote:
@Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid  for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media.  There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.                    
IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

IMHO the REAL NEWS in the story is

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

2) The Portuguese Prosecuter was present at the recent meeting between the two forces - as per our CPS who advise the investigating force if there is sufficient evidence to charge and what is required to proceed to court

I've just caught up, I should read before commenting. 

Please can you tell more about (1) - Does this mean the Mccann's were previously not interviewed because Scotland Yard were obliged to rely on the rogatory letters? Now you think they can actually be interviewed?
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Post by loopzdaloop on 26.11.18 23:48

@sar wrote:"Kate and Gerry have always maintained that their daughter was abducted" indeed they have

This made me question if they actively planned the shutters story to rule out M 'wandering away'. Like the tea stains if the body was found.
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Post by Verdi on 26.11.18 23:54

@Sceptic wrote:IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.
My sentiments precisely.  The McCann Co Ltd were/are most likely behind every story that hit the UK national and regional press.

What was the point of the government's Media Monitoring director being assigned to control what came out in the media, if not to control what come out in the media?

Good Publicity v. Bad Publicity - who cares just as long as it's publicity.  What better way of ensuring that there will never be even a prosecution let alone a trial before a court of law.  More a case of Good/Bad Publicity v. Fair Trial.

People sadly underestimate the power of the press.  It's the tool of the establishment, always has been always will be.

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Post by Jill Havern on 27.11.18 7:12

Well done Ms Kandohla for publishing the video of Eddie and Keela alerting to blood and death scent in the McCann's apartment and hire car in this article:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7828725/madeleine-mccann-parents-slam-claims-she-wasnt-kidnapped/
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Post by Sceptic on 27.11.18 7:53

RUU
@loopzdaloop wrote:
@Sceptic wrote:
@sharonl wrote:
@Cmaryholmes wrote:I wonder if the Mccanns are being paid  for these non-stories in the DM and Sun? A nice little earner, maybe, as well as the ‘feel sorry for us’ propaganda.

These stories are making complete fools of the McCanns, the government, the Met Police and the media.  There must be some reason that the McCanns are putting up with it.                    
IMHO The McCanns are the source of the story as well as the response to the story a tactic they have used before - The question is why? What are they trying divert attention from.

IMHO the REAL NEWS in the story is

1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.

2) The Portuguese Prosecuter was present at the recent meeting between the two forces - as per our CPS who advise the investigating force if there is sufficient evidence to charge and what is required to proceed to court

I've just caught up, I should read before commenting. 

Please can you tell more about (1) - Does this mean the Mccann's were previously not interviewed because Scotland Yard were obliged to rely on the rogatory letters? Now you think they can actually be interviewed?
As far as I’m aware as the “crime” occurred in Portugal for the results of questioning to be legal and used in a court of law that was the necessary procedure
The question is why and for what reason has the source of the story chosen to highlight this point
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Post by Doug D on 27.11.18 9:36

Sceptic @ #40:
 
1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.
 
   
Sorry, I’m probably being daft, but where has this come from?
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Post by Sceptic on 27.11.18 10:09

I Doug D wrote:Sceptic @ #40:
 
1) The need for rogatory letters has been scrapped - SY can now ask the McCanns whatever they choose or on behalf of the Portuguese without having the lengthy wait for rogatory letters to be approved.
 
   
Sorry, I’m probably being daft, but where has this come from?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjW8ZHQqfTeAhWLC8AKHRqFBiMQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-6429815%2FGerry-Kate-McCann-slam-claims-Madeleine-walked-aparment-says-kidnapped.html&psig=AOvVaw0mGMp7hjgkRE_tnOL1ZLlG&ust=1543399582464652




A spokesman for Portugal's Attorney General's Office refused to comment, but a well-placed source said: 'The heads of the two police investigations are corresponding with each other directly and have combined their efforts without resorting to rogatory letters like before.
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