The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: 'Operation Grange' set up by ex-Prime Minister David Cameron
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Having read this article, what are your views on the alleged Smithman sighting?
Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
I'm not concerned with minute detail, the important factor between Jane Tanner's description and that of Martin Smith and his son and daughter is ....However, the description given by the Smiths and Jane Tanner of the men they saw differs so much that anyone reading the Smiths statement would realise that Smithman, with his short-back-and-sides-light brown hair, and light skin, could not possibly be the hirsute man with the abundant, shiny, long black hair and swarthy complexion who Jane claimed to have seen.
A man walking the streets of Praia da Luz on the night of 3rd May 2007.
The man fully clothed (didn't appear to be a tourist).
Carrying a young child, most likely a girl of about 3/4 years of age.
Child uncovered and dressed only in pyjamas; maybe barefoot.
That's all you need to know to realize a similarity between the two sightings, the rest is just window dressing.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
@ Tony Bennet. Hi Tony, could you please provide the link containing the evidence that Martin Smith was interviewed by either Andy Redwood or another senior detective from Operation Grange in 2012-2013 as I seem to be unable to locate it.
Given that the police state that Operation Grange already had the e-fits in their possession since September 2008, one has to wonder why they waited until 2012 - 2013 to speak to Martin Smith!
If Martin Smith ever spoke with Andy Redwood, (and I eagerly await the evidence of this) I would certainly not expect him to attempt to instruct a Senior Officer, from a foreign country, heading up a major investigation in that country, on how to proceed with police work!
You claim that Martin Smith did not"raise a whisper of protest" about how his sighting was used by Operation Grange. Can you please provide the evidence re. this claim.
After all, we hear that Dr. Amaral has protested about recent MSM claims that the is suing the McCanns, yet this alleged protest has, to date, failed to be publicly acknowledged or confirmed. In the absence of such confirmation should one conclude that Dr. Amaral is quite sanguine regarding these claims about his litigious intent. The only place I have seen suggestions of his displeasure is on internet fora such as this.
Finally, would you be so kind as to provide the evidence to show that Martin Smith happily co-operated with the BBC and Operation Grange or that Wendy Murphy said anything negative about the Smiths' veracity as witnesses. Thanks.
Given that the police state that Operation Grange already had the e-fits in their possession since September 2008, one has to wonder why they waited until 2012 - 2013 to speak to Martin Smith!
If Martin Smith ever spoke with Andy Redwood, (and I eagerly await the evidence of this) I would certainly not expect him to attempt to instruct a Senior Officer, from a foreign country, heading up a major investigation in that country, on how to proceed with police work!
You claim that Martin Smith did not"raise a whisper of protest" about how his sighting was used by Operation Grange. Can you please provide the evidence re. this claim.
After all, we hear that Dr. Amaral has protested about recent MSM claims that the is suing the McCanns, yet this alleged protest has, to date, failed to be publicly acknowledged or confirmed. In the absence of such confirmation should one conclude that Dr. Amaral is quite sanguine regarding these claims about his litigious intent. The only place I have seen suggestions of his displeasure is on internet fora such as this.
Finally, would you be so kind as to provide the evidence to show that Martin Smith happily co-operated with the BBC and Operation Grange or that Wendy Murphy said anything negative about the Smiths' veracity as witnesses. Thanks.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
@ Verdi.
I confess myself astonished that you state above that you are not interested in the "minute detail" of the descriptions of the men seen by Tanner and the Smiths!
Many, many, many pages have previously been dedicated to the alleged "similarities" between these men's appearance, so much so that some have declared (based on the minutiae of these descriptions) that they are "remarkably similar" and "almost identical"!
I think it reasonable, necessary and important that, in order to ensure unbiased research, the obvious differences and contradictions between these two descriptions (and indeed that of "Sagresman") be noted and acknowledged and discussed.
The inescapable truth, unpalatable or not, is that -
From the reliable evidence in the files, the man Jane saw was dark-skinned, with lots of dark, glossy hair, reaching down the back of his neck. He wore yellow-brown-mustard baggy trousers and a dark puffy anorak. His clothes were notably baggy.
Meanwhile, the man the Smiths saw was light-skinned, with short, light-brown hair. He was dressed in cream-beige trousers of classic, fitted cut with absolutely no suggestion of baggy clothing.
It is, IMO, ludicrous and misleading to expend so much time and ink on labouring "similarities" and stressing how important such "similarities" in appearance are, while at the same time totally ignoring obvious differences and deeming them unimportant.
I confess myself astonished that you state above that you are not interested in the "minute detail" of the descriptions of the men seen by Tanner and the Smiths!
Many, many, many pages have previously been dedicated to the alleged "similarities" between these men's appearance, so much so that some have declared (based on the minutiae of these descriptions) that they are "remarkably similar" and "almost identical"!
I think it reasonable, necessary and important that, in order to ensure unbiased research, the obvious differences and contradictions between these two descriptions (and indeed that of "Sagresman") be noted and acknowledged and discussed.
The inescapable truth, unpalatable or not, is that -
From the reliable evidence in the files, the man Jane saw was dark-skinned, with lots of dark, glossy hair, reaching down the back of his neck. He wore yellow-brown-mustard baggy trousers and a dark puffy anorak. His clothes were notably baggy.
Meanwhile, the man the Smiths saw was light-skinned, with short, light-brown hair. He was dressed in cream-beige trousers of classic, fitted cut with absolutely no suggestion of baggy clothing.
It is, IMO, ludicrous and misleading to expend so much time and ink on labouring "similarities" and stressing how important such "similarities" in appearance are, while at the same time totally ignoring obvious differences and deeming them unimportant.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
Yet you fail to acknowledge the salient point.@Phoebe wrote:I confess myself astonished that you state above that you are not interested in the "minute detail" of the descriptions of the men seen by Tanner and the Smiths!
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
With respect, the salient point, for me, is that much time has been dedicated to poring over the minute details of the descriptions of Tannerman and Smithman, with the emphasis on any "similarities." This emphasis on seeking "similarities" has led to the bold declaration that the descriptions of both men, in terms of clothing and physical appearance are "remarkably similar" and "nearly identical" - something which is clearly an erroneous claim.Verdi wrote:Yet you fail to acknowledge the salient point.@Phoebe wrote:I confess myself astonished that you state above that you are not interested in the "minute detail" of the descriptions of the men seen by Tanner and the Smiths!
If the actual description details themselves are irrelevant, why has there been an obsessive interest in the details the Smiths gave re. their sighting.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
@ Tony Bennett.
Tony, you cast doubt in an earlier post on the veracity of Gemma O'Doherty's claim that Martin Smith revealed to her that he had not changed his mind about Smithman being Gerry, and that he was annoyed with the BBC over falsely stating that he had done so. You avow that this is proven by the "fact" that Martin Smith did not protest to the BBC or demand a retraction or clarification re. this claim.
This gives the following equation -
Lack of protest over a claim = the claim made must true.
Now, Gemma O' Doherty herself, made a very serious claim about the BBC. She claimed that they had misled viewers (and even uses the damning suggestion that the BBC "bent the truth").
Since her article was published there has been no protest whatsoever from the BBC over her claim - no demand for a retraction of her statement that Martin Smith never told the BBC that he had changed his mind - No protest over O'Doherty's published claim that Smith contacted the BBC to register his concern over this false claim - No protest over any suggestion that the BBC bent the truth! No demand that she retract the suggestion that the BBC bent the truth.
Applying the same equation -
Lack of protest = claim is true
one must conclude that the lack of protest from the BBC proves that Gemma O'Doherty's statement must be true!!
Tony, you cast doubt in an earlier post on the veracity of Gemma O'Doherty's claim that Martin Smith revealed to her that he had not changed his mind about Smithman being Gerry, and that he was annoyed with the BBC over falsely stating that he had done so. You avow that this is proven by the "fact" that Martin Smith did not protest to the BBC or demand a retraction or clarification re. this claim.
This gives the following equation -
Lack of protest over a claim = the claim made must true.
Now, Gemma O' Doherty herself, made a very serious claim about the BBC. She claimed that they had misled viewers (and even uses the damning suggestion that the BBC "bent the truth").
Since her article was published there has been no protest whatsoever from the BBC over her claim - no demand for a retraction of her statement that Martin Smith never told the BBC that he had changed his mind - No protest over O'Doherty's published claim that Smith contacted the BBC to register his concern over this false claim - No protest over any suggestion that the BBC bent the truth! No demand that she retract the suggestion that the BBC bent the truth.
Applying the same equation -
Lack of protest = claim is true
one must conclude that the lack of protest from the BBC proves that Gemma O'Doherty's statement must be true!!
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
Yet you still fail to acknowledge the salient point.Phoebe wrote:With respect, the salient point, for me, is that much time has been dedicated to poring over the minute details of the descriptions of Tannerman and Smithman, with the emphasis on any "similarities." This emphasis on seeking "similarities" has led to the bold declaration that the descriptions of both men, in terms of clothing and physical appearance are "remarkably similar" and "nearly identical" - something which is clearly an erroneous claim.Verdi wrote:Yet you fail to acknowledge the salient point.@Phoebe wrote:I confess myself astonished that you state above that you are not interested in the "minute detail" of the descriptions of the men seen by Tanner and the Smiths!
If the actual description details themselves are irrelevant, why has there been an obsessive interest in the details the Smiths gave re. their sighting.
I've asked you before and I'll ask again - please don't include me in some sort of collective. Members of CMoMM are individuals, each with their own perspective, not a united force that follows only one line of thought.
Everything I write comes from me alone - I haven't a puppeteer pulling the strings or a ventriloquist gottle of geer'ing.
I thank you.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
@ Verdi -
I assure you that I was not including you in "some sort of collective" but referring to comments you, yourself, have posted on the matter.
For example, in the thread entitled -
"Smithman 5: The evidence from the Smith family from Drogheda Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions"
Tony Bennett states -
"15. The description he did give of the man-carrying-a-child was a virtual carbon copy of the descriptions given to the PJ by Jane Tanner on 4 May and by Nuno Lourenco on 5 May of a man he said had tried to kidnap his daughter a week earlier"
In your own response to this -
You state -
"Every point you make Tony I think is valid, even though one or two areas are perhaps slightly tenuous, that trifle doesn't detract from the overall picture."
The above response clearly implies that you agree with the assertion that the description the Smiths gave of the man carrying a child was a virtual CARBON COPY of the descriptions given to the P.J. by Jane Tanner on 4th May and Nuno Lourenco on 5th May.
Indeed, on several occasions on that thread Tony Bennett reiterates that the descriptions given for Tannerman, Smithman and Sagresman are "near identical "- with - nary a word of dissent from you.
Perhaps you might clarify whether you accept that the description given by Jane Tanner of a dark-skinned man, with long-to-the-neck, very dark, glossy hair is the polar opposite of the description of the light-skinned individual with short-back-and-sides light brown hair, described by the Smiths.
I assure you that I was not including you in "some sort of collective" but referring to comments you, yourself, have posted on the matter.
For example, in the thread entitled -
"Smithman 5: The evidence from the Smith family from Drogheda Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions"
Tony Bennett states -
"15. The description he did give of the man-carrying-a-child was a virtual carbon copy of the descriptions given to the PJ by Jane Tanner on 4 May and by Nuno Lourenco on 5 May of a man he said had tried to kidnap his daughter a week earlier"
In your own response to this -
Re: SMITHMAN 5: The evidence of the Smith family from Drogheda, Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions
by Verdi on 14.07.15 23:40You state -
"Every point you make Tony I think is valid, even though one or two areas are perhaps slightly tenuous, that trifle doesn't detract from the overall picture."
The above response clearly implies that you agree with the assertion that the description the Smiths gave of the man carrying a child was a virtual CARBON COPY of the descriptions given to the P.J. by Jane Tanner on 4th May and Nuno Lourenco on 5th May.
Indeed, on several occasions on that thread Tony Bennett reiterates that the descriptions given for Tannerman, Smithman and Sagresman are "near identical "- with - nary a word of dissent from you.
Perhaps you might clarify whether you accept that the description given by Jane Tanner of a dark-skinned man, with long-to-the-neck, very dark, glossy hair is the polar opposite of the description of the light-skinned individual with short-back-and-sides light brown hair, described by the Smiths.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
Yet still you fail to acknowledge the salient point. I've been around this case for too long to be sucked in by semantics.@Phoebe wrote:I assure you that I was not including you in "some sort of collective" but referring to comments you, yourself, have posted on the matter.
For example, in the thread entitled -
"Smithman 5: The evidence from the Smith family from Drogheda Ireland: the TWELVE sets of contradictions"
Sorry you went to so much trouble digging around looking for something I've posted in the past in the hope of proving a point.
Time wasted I'm afraid. My comment is exactly as it's written, no hidden meaning, no implication..
"Every point you make Tony I think is valid, even though one or two areas are perhaps slightly tenuous, that trifle doesn't detract from the overall picture."
I could likewise say I think your comments are valid, it doesn't mean I agree with you.
Still, I can't help the way you interpret what others say, that's your business alone. I've nothing more to add, enough time has been wasted on a fruitless cause.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
@ Verdi. - I posed a direct question to you, ergo, a direct, unambiguous answer would negate any danger of me "interpreting" or misinterpreting your response! No semantics nor room for misunderstanding involved. Forgive me, but you seem rather reluctant to answer this perfectly reasonable, simple question. To rephrase for clarity -
Do you accept that the man is described by Jane as having long, very dark, glossy hair while the man described by the Smiths has short, light-brown hair. Do you accept that Jane describes the man she saw as dark-skinned, while the Smiths describe the man they saw as light-skinned.
It is a simple question which does not encourage ambiguity or misunderstanding.
We seem to regard different points as "salient". I believe that the erroneous claims (which have been made repeatedly) that the descriptions of Sagresman, Tannerman and Smithman are "carbon copies" and "near identical" must not go unchallenged. The evidence to support the fact that such claims are incorrect is in the files. I firmly believe that ignoring such evidence is foolish and misleading.
Do you accept that the man is described by Jane as having long, very dark, glossy hair while the man described by the Smiths has short, light-brown hair. Do you accept that Jane describes the man she saw as dark-skinned, while the Smiths describe the man they saw as light-skinned.
It is a simple question which does not encourage ambiguity or misunderstanding.
We seem to regard different points as "salient". I believe that the erroneous claims (which have been made repeatedly) that the descriptions of Sagresman, Tannerman and Smithman are "carbon copies" and "near identical" must not go unchallenged. The evidence to support the fact that such claims are incorrect is in the files. I firmly believe that ignoring such evidence is foolish and misleading.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
I do so agree with Phoebe continuing with this question .
A mental pic of Tannersman for instance imposes itself on my mind as I type , the fact that he wore a jacket , at odds with the sparse clothing the child was dressed in .
A mental pic of Tannersman for instance imposes itself on my mind as I type , the fact that he wore a jacket , at odds with the sparse clothing the child was dressed in .
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
Phoebe wrote:@ Verdi. - I posed a direct question to you, ergo, a direct, unambiguous answer would negate any danger of me "interpreting" or misinterpreting your response! No semantics nor room for misunderstanding involved. Forgive me, but you seem rather reluctant to answer this perfectly reasonable, simple question. To rephrase for clarity -
Do you accept that the man is described by Jane as having long, very dark, glossy hair while the man described by the Smiths has short, light-brown hair. Do you accept that Jane describes the man she saw as dark-skinned, while the Smiths describe the man they saw as light-skinned.
It is a simple question which does not encourage ambiguity or misunderstanding.
We seem to regard different points as "salient". I believe that the erroneous claims (which have been made repeatedly) that the descriptions of Sagresman, Tannerman and Smithman are "carbon copies" and "near identical" must not go unchallenged. The evidence to support the fact that such claims are incorrect is in the files. I firmly believe that ignoring such evidence is foolish and misleading.
Touche.
As an aside, at least the Smiths account is verifiable, in so far as they were actually there. Jane Tanner saw a dude whilst not being seen herself!
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
Getting back to the title of this thread - The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann - CAREFULLY EXPLAINED.
The police concluded that the McCanns were involved in the occultation of their daughter's body.
"Kate and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann." (Taveres Da Almeida interim report.)
The P.J. believed that Madeleine died sometime after 5.30 p.m on May 3rd - ergo the occultation of her corpse must have taken place sometime between 5.30 pm. May 3, and when the disappearance was reported.
The Smith family reported seeing, at around 9.50- 10 p.m. on May 3rd, a man carrying a blonde unresponsive child aged about 4. The child's age, hairstyle and colour are a perfect match for Madeleine. They describe the man they saw as light-skinned, with short back and sides light brown hair, 175-180 cm tall, of medium build, in good shape.
The police believe the Mccanns were involved in hiding the corpse.
Gerry McCann looked like this in '07
In Sept '07 Martin Smith states that he and his wife are up to 80% certain that the man they met carrying the child was Gerry McCann.
There are no independent witnesses who can place Gerry at the table when the Smiths saw Smithman.
It is easy to see where the theory that Smithman= Gerry comes from and why it persists.
The police concluded that the McCanns were involved in the occultation of their daughter's body.
"Kate and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann." (Taveres Da Almeida interim report.)
The P.J. believed that Madeleine died sometime after 5.30 p.m on May 3rd - ergo the occultation of her corpse must have taken place sometime between 5.30 pm. May 3, and when the disappearance was reported.
The Smith family reported seeing, at around 9.50- 10 p.m. on May 3rd, a man carrying a blonde unresponsive child aged about 4. The child's age, hairstyle and colour are a perfect match for Madeleine. They describe the man they saw as light-skinned, with short back and sides light brown hair, 175-180 cm tall, of medium build, in good shape.
The police believe the Mccanns were involved in hiding the corpse.
Gerry McCann looked like this in '07
In Sept '07 Martin Smith states that he and his wife are up to 80% certain that the man they met carrying the child was Gerry McCann.
There are no independent witnesses who can place Gerry at the table when the Smiths saw Smithman.
It is easy to see where the theory that Smithman= Gerry comes from and why it persists.
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Re: The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann – CAREFULLY EXPLAINED
Yes! And it’s an emphatic yes!Phoebe wrote:Getting back to the title of this thread - The Theory that Smithman = Gerry McCann - CAREFULLY EXPLAINED.
The police concluded that the McCanns were involved in the occultation of their daughter's body.
"Kate and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann." (Taveres Da Almeida interim report.)
The P.J. believed that Madeleine died sometime after 5.30 p.m on May 3rd - ergo the occultation of her corpse must have taken place sometime between 5.30 pm. May 3, and when the disappearance was reported.
The Smith family reported seeing, at around 9.50- 10 p.m. on May 3rd, a man carrying a blonde unresponsive child aged about 4. The child's age, hairstyle and colour are a perfect match for Madeleine. They describe the man they saw as light-skinned, with short back and sides light brown hair, 175-180 cm tall, of medium build, in good shape.
The police believe the Mccanns were involved in hiding the corpse.
Gerry McCann looked like this in '07
In Sept '07 Martin Smith states that he and his wife are up to 80% certain that the man they met carrying the child was Gerry McCann.
There are no independent witnesses who can place Gerry at the table when the Smiths saw Smithman.
It is easy to see where the theory that Smithman= Gerry comes from and why it persists.
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Similar topics
» SMITHMAN 7: What is the actual evidence that makes people think that ‘Smithman’ was Gerry McCann?
» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
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» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
» SMITHMAN 12: Can anyone who still believes that the Smiths saw Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine satisfactorily answer ANY of these 60 Questions ?
» SMITHMAN 10: Is this absolute, 100% proof that the Smiths did not see Gerry McCann carrying away Madeleine at around 10pm on Thursday, 3 May, 2007?
» Textusa's revised theory, published 13 November, of The Last Photo - explained for further discussion
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: British Police / Government Interference :: 'Operation Grange' set up by ex-Prime Minister David Cameron
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