The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!


Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Page 3 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Doug D on 17.09.18 10:06

Can anyone pinpoint exactly which apartments Berry & Balu were in. They were allocated 603 & 606, which are in the block on the other side of the road to 5a.
 
The reservation list only shows numbers up to 610.
 
From the front (Agostinho Da Silva side) there are two staircases with, I think, 2 doors visible at each, so 12 apartments, but from the side and car park car, it looks like there could be more than that,  if there are two apartments, in each position, one front, one back. There could well be a corridor/lobby as well.
 
Balu requested and has been allocated a ground floor, but not Waterside:
 
Balu 603 (Booking is in name of wife N. Cox)                       
 
‘Client would like to stay in Waterside Apartments on ground floor’
 
Berry 606 also requested ground floor apartment, but was told it couldn’t be guaranteed, so probably all fully booked already and therefore appears to have a first floor, but it is not clear.
 
Either way, it would be nice to pinpoint Berry’s balcony in order to clarify exactly what he could have seen, as unless he did have an end apartment, the view must have been pretty much obscured.



Doug D

Posts : 2732
Reputation : 975
Join date : 2013-12-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 17.09.18 16:42

@ willowthewisp. Forgive my delay in responding. Yes, it seems that there isn't really anyone who can verify the Tapas 9's (including Gerry's) whereabouts during that fateful Tapas meal, other then the Tapas 9 themselves. Jeremy Wilkins does confirm speaking to Gerry but there is a half hour window during which he estimates this to meeting to have occurred and he cannot be more specific. Balu and Berry saw Gerry at some stage after the alarm had been raised but no time is given for this encounter in the available files.

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by sharonl on 17.09.18 20:59

Extract from the PJ files - final report

https://themaddiecasefiles.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15&p=325&hilit=berry#p325

Further on this issue, the testimony of MARTIN SMITH was considered, pages 1606 and following, reporting the sighting of an individual carrying a child, in one of the streets that lead to the beach. It was said that the child could be MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following. It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant.

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 5378
Reputation : 937
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Sundance on 17.09.18 21:07

Funny how some here are happy to rely on the decidedly dubious accounts from the Tapas 9 when it fits their personal belief.
avatar
Sundance

Posts : 105
Reputation : 80
Join date : 2018-08-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Verdi on 17.09.18 21:45

@sharonl wrote:Extract from the PJ files - final report

https://themaddiecasefiles.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15&p=325&hilit=berry#p325

Further on this issue, the testimony of MARTIN SMITH was considered, pages 1606 and following, reporting the sighting of an individual carrying a child, in one of the streets that lead to the beach. It was said that the child could be MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following. It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant.

Add to that the PJ case files Legal Summary..

A situation was investigated relating to two individuals, Neil B. and Rajinder B., especially as regards the former, whose information was crossed with Tasmin Silence’s witness account, the photofit showing that this was not the same individual. In spite of the inquiries made, including by means of the Letter of Request, nothing was found to link him to the disappearance of the British girl.

Martin Smith was questioned, who said that at the beginning of the Travessa da Escola Primária he saw an individual carrying a child, walking in the opposite direction, at a normal pace, when he passed this individual it must have been about 22.00, being totally unaware that a child had disappeared. Later he states that when he saw Gerald McCann on the news, leaving by plane, he appeared to him to be the individual whom he had seen on the night of 3rd May in Praia da Luz.

This witness was heard again by the Drogheda Irish police on 23-01-08, having been shown a video clip of Gerald McCann’s departure by plane carrying one of the twins. This witness maintains his belief that judging by the posture, there seemed to be a probability of 60-80% that the person seen by him at about 21.55 at the previously mentioned place, was Madeleine’s father. At this time, Gerald’s presence at the restaurant was confirmed by his friends and has not been denied by restaurant employees.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10988
Reputation : 4166
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 20.09.18 12:35

From reading the files I'm afraid I see no evidence whatsoever to support the claim by "24horas" that Martin Smith's  evidence was considered by the P.J. to be "Highly contradictory ... and this witness does not deserve credibility" as per the title of this thread.
The P.J. went to the bother of requesting (8th Nov 2007, and Dr. Amaral was no longer in charge by this stage) that Martin Smith be questioned again. In the specific list of questions suggested by the P.J. there is no reference or suggestion whatsoever re. any contradictions in the evidence already given.
On Jan 30th 2008 Smith was questioned again with the information being forwarded to the P.J. as per request. One has to wonder why they bothered to request this if there had been any suggestion that his previous testimony was "contradictory". 
Personally, I think the problem was that Mr. and Mrs. Smith could not claim to be 100% certain that the man they had seen was Gerry (whom they did not know) while at the same time eight of his friends (who knew him well) were prepared to swear that he was sitting with them at the Tapas table.
Given the odds of two Smith's up to 80% certain they had seen Gerry in location "A" against eight others claiming to 100% certain that he was with them in Location "B" at that time, it was obvious that the Smiths' claim was dead in the water. That does not, however, mean that it was contradictory or undeserving of credibility. It merely means it would be trumped by the alibi claims of eight people.

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Sundance on 20.09.18 13:20

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant


Liam Hogan
avatar
Sundance

Posts : 105
Reputation : 80
Join date : 2018-08-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Sundance on 20.09.18 13:30

Gonçalo Amaral - The Truth Of The Lie - AN IRISH FAMILY IN A STATE OF SHOCK.


The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It's an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you'd think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child's head is against Gerald's left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.


In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it's a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking...It's the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.


This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance. It's as if the scene is repeating itself ....Mr Smith thinking he's hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.


When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach.


We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann - by means of televised images, certainly - direct confrontation being impossible - and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.
avatar
Sundance

Posts : 105
Reputation : 80
Join date : 2018-08-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Verdi on 21.09.18 12:47


____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10988
Reputation : 4166
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by sharonl on 26.10.18 18:07

Additional statement from Martin Smith 30/01/2008


I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 5378
Reputation : 937
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by sharonl on 26.10.18 18:46

Smith sighting compared to Tanner sighting in Kate McCanns book 




____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 5378
Reputation : 937
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.10.18 19:45

sharonl's posting of those 3 pages from Kate McCann's book 'Madeleine' is absolute proof of what I have contended since the BBC CrimeWatch programme of October 2013, namely that the McCanns have for years been making very good use of the Smithman sighting.

As I've repeatedly argued, this use by the McCanns of the sighting began in late December 2007 or January 2008, when they were contacted by Brian Kennedy and other members of the McCann Team and agreed to do efits of their (claimed) sighting.

So why did the McCanns studiously ignore the Smithman sighting until this point?

The answer is simple. They didn't 'own' the Smithman sighting. Unlike Tannerman (Jane Tanner) and Sagresman=Wojcek Krokowski (Nuno Lourenco), 'Smithman was NOT the McCann Team's creation.

What changed things?

ANSWER: The 'SALSALITO SUMMIT' meeting between Team Murat and Team McCann.

There, in Burgau on 13 November 2007, Murat's lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, Robert Murat, his mother Jenny and his uncle and aunt Ralph and Sally Eveleigh confronted...

...the McCanns' lawyer, top Freemason Edward Smethurst and multi-billionaire Cheshire businessman, Brian Kennedy, head of the McCanns' highly controversial private investigation.

There a deal was undoubtedly done between the two camps
- and the McCanns were now free to use the Martin Smith sighting exactly as they pleased.

It is very sad to see that 'Profiler' Pat Brown to this very day insists that the McCanns 'ignored' the Smithman sighting.

No they jolly well didn't.

They have milked it for all it was worth ever since December 2007.

And today, 11 years later, they are STILL doing so.

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15205
Reputation : 3110
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 26.10.18 21:09

The Smiths, by January 30th 2008, had not been involved in drawing up e -fits. 

"He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits" (P.J. files. Sgt. Liam Hogan)


None of us know what happened at the so called "Salisito Summit" or what may have been discussed - other than a reported claim by Murat's lawyer that Murat was taking legal action against Jane Tanner for defamation.
After the P.J, files became publicly available in August 2008 the McCanns would have been well aware that the Smiths evidence was available for all to see. They could not ignore this fact without incurring suspicion, and so, Kate did her very best to suggest that Tannerman could have been Smithman - (she conveniently neglected to mention that Martin Smith had contacted the police to say he and his wife believed with up to 80% certainty that it was Gerry McCann whom they had seen).
Kate has been desperately trying to link the two sightings, but now that "Crechedad" has been identified, that ends that nonsense! 

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by sharonl on 26.10.18 22:01

Yes Tony
I notice Martin Smith first got involved just after Murat got arrested, emphasising in his statement that the man he saw was NOT MURAT.  Then following a meeting with McCann benefactor, Brian Kennedy, he changes the description of the man he saw to match the description of tannerman.  In addition to that, he fails to turn up and testify when needed.

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 5378
Reputation : 937
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.10.18 22:45

@Phoebe wrote:None of us know what happened at the so called "Salisito Summit" or what may have been discussed - 
I hope that when Phoebe next posts, she will tell us all whether she or not agrees with the following two statements:

1 That BEFORE the 'Salsalitas Summit' on 13th November 2007, the McCanns ignored all mention of the Smithman sighting, but that...

2 Shortly after the 'Salsalitas Summit', the McCanns began USING the Smithman SUMMIT to their full advantage, co-opting the Smiths to draw up efits for the ABDUCTOR, to help them pursue, promote & prolong their abduction narrative.

I hope Phoebe will be able to give us a straight answer this time and without avoiding the question.

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15205
Reputation : 3110
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 26.10.18 22:56

Lets examine rationally what benefit the Smiths' statements were to Robert Murat. Did their evidence prove that Murat was not involved in Madeleine's disappearance - NO, not at all!
 There was nothing to prove that Murat had not (as claimed by the McCanns) gone into 5A and taken Madeleine out. He could simply have passed her over to an accomplice (seen by the Smiths) or been waiting to receive her from that same accomplice.
 The Smiths claim re. the man they saw not being Murat in no way rules these possibilities out nor does it give him an alibi for his activities that night.
The P.J. CONTINUED to investigate Murat, to check his alibi, his phones, his house, cars, lock-up garage, his girlfriends house and to tap his phone. Murat continued to be a suspect!
Ergo, the Smiths' statements re. the man they saw was about as useful to Murat as knickers are to a mermaid!

@ Tony Bennett, No I do not agree that the McCanns began using the Smith sighting immediately after the so called "Salasito Summit". They did not publish the e-fits for years nor insist the sighting was prominently promoted until after the files were released.

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by sharonl on 26.10.18 23:05

Of course I agree that the McCanns did not use the e-fits, but will you agree that the McCanns used the sighting in a Channel 4 documentary, on their website, and in Kates' book?

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 5378
Reputation : 937
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 26.10.18 23:17

@sharonl wrote:Of course I agree that the McCanns did not use the e-fits, but will you agree that the McCanns used the sighting in a Channel 4 documentary, on their website, and in Kates' book?
Yes. After the P.J. files came into the public domain in August 2008 they could hardly pretend the Smith sighting didn't exist and ignore it. That would have drawn suspicion, especially after the Smiths had identified Gerry as Smithman. Kate's book tried desperately to imply that Smithman was Tannerman. Given that Jane "saw" both Tannerman and Gerry simultaneously, then Gerry could not be Tannerman and if Tannerman was also Smithman, then logically Smithman could not be Gerry either. They were desperate to push this idea after Smiths' claim that the man he saw carrying the child was Gerry McCann.

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.10.18 23:21

@Phoebe wrote:
@ Tony Bennett, No I do not agree that the McCanns began using the Smith sighting immediately after the so called "Salasito Summit". They did not publish the e-fits for years nor insist the sighting was prominently promoted until after the files were released.
Interesting. So, for all CMOMM members & guests to see, you have frankly denied FOUR SEPARATE FACTS:

1 Martin Smith agreed in January 2008 to help the McCanns draw up efits of an abductor

2 The McCanns used the Smithman sighting in a C4 documentary in May 2009

3 The McCanns put the Smithman sighting on their website in May 2009 and it's been there ever since

4 The Smithman sighting was positively mentioned in 7 pages of Kate McCanns book 'madeleine', in May 2011.

Frankly, a member who denies four such crucial facts as these has no place on a forum that is genuinely seeking the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann.

Admin???

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15205
Reputation : 3110
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 26.10.18 23:30

@ Tony Bennett. I can make this no plainer. The McCanns did not "use" the Smith sighting until after the P.J. files were published. If you have evidence to the contrary ie that they promoted this sighting before August 2008 I eagerly await it.

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.10.18 23:36

@Phoebe wrote:@ Tony Bennett. I can make this no plainer. The McCanns did not "use" the Smith sighting until after the P.J. files were published. If you have evidence to the contrary ie that they promoted this sighting before August 2008 I eagerly await it.
So now you DO frankly admit that the McCanns DID promote the  Smithman sighting in several ways after August 2008?

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15205
Reputation : 3110
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Phoebe on 26.10.18 23:53

I began drinking alcohol after my 10th birthday. Actually, I had my first drink at my 18th birthday. This does not equate with me drinking the day after I turned 10 yrs old!!!!
The P.J. files were published on 4th August 2008. After this date anyone interested in the McCann case could read all about the Smith sighting and Martin Smith's statement that he believed, with up to 80% certainty, that the man he saw was Gerry. 
The McCanns could not ignore this reality without drawing suspicion on themselves. Therefore, after the Smith sighting became public in Aug 08 the McCanns could not continue to ignore it as they has done. They attempted to control the information and tried to link Tannerman to Smithman. 
In simple English - when the McCanns could no longer ignore the Smith sighting after the publication of the files, they had to acknowledge it in some way. They did this by airbrushing out Smith's identification of Gerry and by desperately trying to imply that Tannerman was 
Smithman. They did NOT "use" the Smith sighting from May 07 until
after August 08. The fact that the sighting was then in the public domain was, IMO, the obvious catalyst.

Phoebe

Posts : 1105
Reputation : 1333
Join date : 2017-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Verdi on 27.10.18 1:25

Yes. After the P.J. files came into the public domain in August 2008 they could hardly pretend the Smith sighting didn't exist and ignore it.

Local family may have seen missing Maddy Drogheda Independent

By Angela McCormick

Wednesday 6th June 2007


A DROGHEDA family may have been the last people to see abducted four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Portugal.

The family is understood to have seen a child in the arms of a man on the night and at the time Madeleine was taken from her parents' apartments in Praia Da Luz.

They have reported the matter and recently gave statements to the Portuguese police.

The Portuguese police have asked the family not to speak to the press in case they compromise their investigations.

The family declined to give any details to the Drogheda Independent.

Portuguese police are convinced that the child, who vanished during a family holiday in the Algarve on May 3, was abducted.

A number of Drogheda-based families holiday in the nearby Estrela Da Luz apartments, part of a complex built by Drogheda man Gerry Fagan of Oceanico Developments.

'Estrela Da Luz is just around the corner from Praia Da Luz. Loads of Drogheda people go there. It is an absolute paradise,' said Jem O'Neill, a regular visitor.
....................

Irish family's Maddie quiz The Sun

From: VERONICA LORRAINE in Praia da Luz
Published: 03 Jan 2008

PRIVATE detectives hunting for Madeleine McCann are to quiz an Irish family who may have been the last to see her alive.

Martin Smith, his wife and children told cops they saw a man carrying a little blonde girl in Praia da Luz on the night Maddie vanished.

Investigators from the Metodo 3 agency hired by Maddie's parents Gerry and Kate are preparing to travel to Ireland to interview them.

The family, from Drogheda, Co Louth, believe they saw the man taking the sleeping tot down to the beach at the Portuguese resort.

The Smiths were leaving Kelly's Bar — 400 metres from the McCanns' apartment — between 9.50 and 10pm on May 3 last year.

They flew home to Ireland the next day, but when the times of Maddie's abduction were revealed, the family remembered seeing a man, 5ft 7in to 5ft 9in tall and dressed in beige, carrying the child.

Significantly the description matches that given by Jane Tanner, 37, a friend of the McCanns.

Mr Smith, who has already spoken to Portuguese cops over the sighting, said yesterday: "I'd talk to anyone to move this investigation on. I think about Maddie every day."

He added: "I found the Portuguese cops not to be the most efficient bunch."

His wife Mary, 59, said: "We saw a man carrying a blonde child. It was just such a normal thing to see in a holiday resort — we didn't think anything of it at the time."

The Sun reported on Monday how Metodo 3 — which is costing the Find Madeleine Fund £300,000 — plan to blitz Morocco after several leads pointed to the country.
....................

Maddy: We saw abduction Daily Mirror

Paul Byrne in Praia da Luz
3/01/2008

A family who may have seen Madeleine McCann being abducted could provide vital evidence in the search for the missing four-year-old.

The group saw a man walking towards the beach in Praia da Luz while carrying a child at the time Madeleine vanished, exactly eight months ago.

Portuguese police have taken statements from the family, who live in Drogheda, Ireland.

Now detectives hired by Madeleine's parents want to speak to Martin Smith and his family. The Smiths were leaving Kelly's Bar just before 10pm when they saw a man carrying a child 500 yards from the McCanns' apartment.

Kate McCann, 39, raised the alarm about her missing daughter at around 10pm.

The Smiths are thought to have described the man as white and 5ft 7in to 5ft 9in tall. His top clothing was obscured by the child. That description matches a suspect seen walking away from the apartment at about 9.15pm by Jane Tanner, a member of the "Tapas Seven" group of friends who were on holiday with the McCanns.

She saw a man carrying a child wearing pink pyjamas similar to those worn by Madeleine.

The McCanns' spokesman said yesterday: "Our detectives are being very methodical and I am quite sure that this family will be on their list."

The eight-month deadline means suspect Robert Murat, 34, hopes to be formally cleared today.
....................

EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished

By SANDRA MURPHY, VANESSA ALLEN
January 3, 2008[/size]

AN IRISH holidaymaker has spoken publicly for the first time of his disturbing encounter with a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared.

Now investigators hired by Madeleine's parents hope Martin Smith and his family can provide a crucial breakthrough.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co. Louth, Mr Smith recalled the sighting, which is strikingly similar to one by a friend of the McCanns, Jane Tanner. In hindsight, the retired Mr Smith said, the mans rude behaviour should have aroused his suspicions.

He explained: "The one thing we noted afterwards was that he gave us no greeting.

"My wife Mary remembered afterwards that she asked him, 'Oh, is she asleep?' But he never acknowledged her one way or another.

"He just put his head down and averted his eyes. This is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year."

Their description of the barefoot child and the man, who wore beige trousers, echoes that of Miss Tanner, who said she saw a man carrying a sleeping child away from the McCanns apartment about 9.15pm.

Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: "Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important."

Last night, McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said detectives from the Spanish agency Metodo 3 now hoped to speak to the family. "Metodo 3 is being very methodical, working through a number of people they think might be able to help them, and this family will be on their list."

On the night of the disappearance, Mr Smith was dining with his wife in the Dolphin restaurant in Praia Da Luz, where they are frequent visitors.

The couple were with their daughter Aoife, their son Peter and his wife Sile,as well as four grandchildren Tadhg, Cole, Aisling and Eimear.

All nine met the man holding a child but their recollection differs slightly from Miss Tanner's.

"In the image she gave, the man was holding the child forward in his arms. The man we saw had put the child over his shoulders. But Luz was very, very quiet at that time of the year and the likelihood of two young children being carried around like this is very small.

"Also, our timings are a bit different. She saw the man at 9.15pm. We say 9.45or 9.50pm and the sighting was only a five-minute walk from where the child was staying.

"I dont know if this information will help the McCanns. We kept interested in whats going on but we tried to avoid the limelight."

The father of six yesterday said the Irish family would do anything they could to help the McCanns find their missing daughter.

"We have not been contacted by the private detective hired by the McCanns, and have had no contact with the investigating police since May 26 last year.

"But anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will." Recalling the event she witnessed, Mr Smith said it was some time before the family realised they could be star witnesses

"We were out the night it happened. My son and his family were leaving on the Friday and we were going for a family meal. We went home about 9.50pm and we heard nothing at all about Madeleine McCann until the next day.

"I was taking my son Peter to the airport and on my way back, I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz.

"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless.

"We had two grandchildren with us at the time, aged four and five, and it had a terrible effect on them.

"They all wanted to sleep in the same room as us until we went home on the Wednesday.

"We were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police.

"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone.Then they asked me to make a statement to gardai, which I did in Drogheda two weeks after the disappearance.

"Two days later, Leicestershire police got on to us and said they wanted to speak to all nine of us. But we felt there was no point dragging grand children and the whole lot out to Portugal so just my eldest son, Peter, and youngest daughter, Aoife, and I flew to Luz to make a statement.

"The police were fairly busy and the station was pretty typical. They didnt seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across but they are probably no different to police anywhere else. We were interviewed separately and told them what we saw, and showed them on the map where we met the man and child.

"We spent the whole day there from 10.30am to 7pm with an interpreter. That day, May 26 last year, was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.I remember clearly because it was my wedding anniversary.

"I told them we went for dinner at the Dolphin Restaurant and then went on to have just one drink in Kelly's bar, just 50 yards away.

"We would normally have stayed out longer but my son and his family were going home the next day.

"As we made our way back to our apartment in Estrella da Luz, we met a guy with a child that appeared to be asleep.

"It looked like a blonde child, and I thought she might be four years old, as she was the same size as my grandchild who was with us.

"It was around 9.55pm and it was getting dark and he was looking downward so I couldnt tell you exactly what he looked like.

"None of us was 100 per cent sure what he was wearing but we all told police he was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s. I didnt think he was Portuguese." Insisting he knew chief suspect Robert Murat visually for years, Mr Smith told police the person he saw carrying a child could not be him.

"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat. I think I would have definitely recognised him."
..................

Irish tourist clears Murat Sky News

John Kelly
First published: 04 January 2008
(Same article later republished with new headline: 'Missing Madeleine McCann: Irish Witness 'Clears' Murat', 12:00pm UK, Monday April 07, 2008 )

An Irish tourist who saw someone carrying a child in a blanket on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared insists that the mystery man was not Robert Murat.

Martin Smith, from Drogheda in Co Louth, was on holiday in Praia Da Luz with his family when they bumped into the man just before 10pm on May 3 last year.

The Smith family's suspicions were aroused because the man made no response when they asked if the barefoot child was asleep.

"He just put his head down and averted his eyes, which is very unusual in a tourist town at such a quiet time of the year," said Mr Smith.

Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.

"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.

"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.

"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day. But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."

The Smiths did contact the Portuguese police once they had returned to Ireland, but say they have had no contact with the officers investigating the case since May last year.

"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone," said Mr Smith.

They asked me to make a statement to the Gardai, which I did, and two days later Leicestershire police got on to us.

"My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement. They didn't seem to be the most efficient police you ever came across - and that was the last time we had any contact with the investigation.

"I don't know if this information will help the McCanns, but anything we can do to help try to solve it, we will.

"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless. We had two grandchildren with us at the time and it had a terrible effect on them - they all wanted to sleep in the same room as us."

But Mr Smith is certain that the man he and his family saw that night was not Robert Murat, who is still officially an "arguido" in the Madeleine McCann investigation.

"I told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously.

He was wearing beige trousers and a darker top. We all put him in his early 40s and I didn't think he was Portuguese."

Mr Smith's sighting is similar to the one reported by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCann family.

A spokesman for the McCanns said detectives from the Spanish agency hired to investigate the case are now hoping to speak to the Smiths.

Retired Mr Smith, 58, does not wish to appear on camera in order to protect his family from media intrusion.
..................

So it goes on .... the Smith sighting was common knowledge long before the PJ investigation was archived in the summer of 2008.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10988
Reputation : 4166
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Verdi on 27.10.18 2:01

thinking

Key witness identified Maddie's father Correio da Manhã

Former PJ coordinator says Irish family saw man with child

Gonçalo Amaral reveals that key deposition was devalued at the time of disappearance

By Sara G. Carrilho
21 October 2013 01h00
With thanks to Astro for translation

The McCann family
"The testimony of one of the members of the Smith family that identified Gerry McCann as being the man he saw on the night that Maddie disappeared, carrying a child in his arms as he walked towards the beach was devalued after I left the case. It is a lie that the e-fit that the British police now made public is based on the Smith family's witness statement."

The statements are from Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ coordinator who investigated the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, to Correio da Manhã. They appear following the publication of e-fits by the Scotland Yard that point one of the drawings out as being that of the main suspect over the presumed abduction of the English child, on the 3rd of May of 2007 - which they say was based on the testimony of an Irish family that was on holiday in Praia da Luz when Maddie disappeared.

"The Smith family told us what they saw that night. A man, a foreigner, of athletic build, a sunburned face, like those of tourists, who was hiding his face in order not to be seen, carrying a blonde child in his arms," Gonçalo Amaral said. "A short time later, when the McCann family 'fled' to the United Kingdom, and were welcomed by the television at the airport, a member of the Smith family called us, very upset. Gerry [Maddie's father], who was leaving the plane, was the man that Mr Smith had seen carrying a child that night," the former coordinator explained.

For Gonçalo Amaral, "there was a positive identification, which was set aside". "The McCann's hired detectives who made a portrait, a man that resembled Gerry, in order to devalue the deposition," he concluded.
....................

Martin Smith witness statement - 26th May 2007

.... he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.

Slim?



Built like a brick privvy.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10988
Reputation : 4166
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Martin Smith's evidence was considered by the PJ to be 'highly contradictory...this type of witness does not deserve credibility" 24 Horas, 7.7.2008

Post by Tony Bennett on 27.10.18 8:10

Thank you @ Verdi for comprehensively in your informative posts for proving Phoebe 100% wrong, once again, in maintaining that nothing was known publicly about the Smithman sighting until the PJ files were released in August 2008.

The FACT is that they were known about publicly 14 MONTHS earlier!

It's clear that the McCann Team had already approached Martin Smith by the time of the press reports of 3 January 2008. And almost certainly at least a few days before those press reports hit the news-stands.

3 January 2008 was just 7 weeks & 2 days after the 'SALSALITO SUMMIT' meeting, when we now know as a fact that the lawyered-up Robert Murat and McCann Teams met at the home of Ralph and Sally Eveleigh. It is pretty clear that the main purpose of this meeting was to sort out their differences and cut a deal

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15205
Reputation : 3110
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum