Re: How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

by kikoraton 22.10.10 23:07

Yes, jkh, it's working for me, but you can find it on the previous page.

by Guest 23.10.10 9:14

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Morning of the 3rd and have adjusted the contrast and brightness to see if it stands out better !!

this is my maiden voyage with inserting images here, so it may all go pear-shaped. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 23.10.10 9:19

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This is for the 29th, with the image adjusted again to see which format works best

by Guest 23.10.10 9:37

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this the 3rd, brightness and contrast adjusted

by kikoraton 23.10.10 9:43

You've got it, Stella. We learn as we go along! More images from me later.

by Guest 23.10.10 9:55

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my last try to get it bigger, then I'm giving up [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It didn't work, time for a [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by **Jill Havern** 23.10.10 10:46

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by Guest 23.10.10 10:49

Thank you very much jkh [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 23.10.10 10:55

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

this the 3rd, brightness and contrast adjusted

sorry for bumping this, but I would like to compare this with the enlarged one.

They are very different signatures.

by **Jill Havern** 23.10.10 10:58

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by Guest 23.10.10 12:05

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] brilliant one jkh [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] thank you once again.

That first downward stroke of the R, surely cannot go from being a one stroke event, to a two stroke event, done by the same person? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by kikoraton 23.10.10 13:06

Yes, I think it can, Stella. Heavy downstroke followed by light upstroke. Though whether it is a faithful imitation of Mr Naylor's own signature, who knows??? winkwink

Just for a change, here are four items from the PJ copy of the creche files - Ainne Naylor, this time.

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Shibboleth - any interpretation, please?

by Cheshire Cat 23.10.10 14:39

I am finding this a very interesting thread to observe - I am trying to understand who GM was actually signing into the Creche - two children belonging to whom?

by Guest 23.10.10 15:47

That's a good question Cheshire Cat, but neither belonging to him I suspect.

by Guest 23.10.10 15:55

kikoraton wrote:Yes, I think it can, Stella. Heavy downstroke followed by light upstroke. Though whether it is a faithful imitation of Mr Naylor's own signature, who knows??? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Just for a change, here are four items from the PJ copy of the creche files - Ainne Naylor, this time.

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Shibboleth - any interpretation, please?

Well on the last entry, she forgot to put an R at the end of her surname [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

To me it also looks a bit chlid like and the 3rd one down, the N looks a bit GM'ish [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Cheshire Cat 23.10.10 15:58

Stella wrote:That's a good question Cheshire Cat, but neither belonging to him I suspect.

Thank you

Thats what I was thinking. I'll let you get on with your work!

by Guest 23.10.10 16:12

No, please, all input is extremely important. If anyone else is reading this and can see a picture developing, you may hold a very important clue, that may have been overlooked. Be it something from a statement, a picture you may have seen or something said by a member of staff.

Remember the comment from GA that the McCann's were seen going into an apartment by the church and he was trying to work out which one it was? How often were they seen going there? every morning by any chance?

by littlepixie 23.10.10 16:29

Was that the pink building? I read something about that in the files the other day.

"
5. With regard to the possible sighting of arguido Gerry McCann next to a pink coloured block of apartments at a site opposite the Luz cemetery, we can inform you that this an establishment called “St James Portuguesa Lda, lots 1 and 2 being situated in the positions mentioned, from the outside the spaces corresponding to Lot 1 can be seen of a total of apartment designated as follows: 101-104, 111-114, 121-124, 105-109, 115-119, 125-129."

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by Judge Mental 23.10.10 17:48

Given that a cadaver dog scented a corpse in 5A, the hired car, and items of clothing and a cuddly toy etc., may one assume that all the refrigerators situated in this block have also been visited by cadaver dogs in order to rule out any rumours of a corpse having languished there for any length of time?

by kikoraton 23.10.10 18:11

According to my interpretation, the similar writing, usually on consecutive lines, and the imitative signature, indicate quite strongly that it was GM taking both children to the Lobster group. But who were they? For that, we depend on work done by others, not myself, on ancestry and family records. In order to agree with the names as entered, I think they must have been called Elizabeth and Madeline or Madeleine. The nannies would have spotted it otherwise, as they might also have spotted an incorrect headcount.
What apartment did they come from? We have a Miss E Naylor, daughter of Mr R and Mrs A Naylor, staying in BP01. We know this from the Mark Warner guest lists, which cheshirecat has kindly posted up on this forum. But that cannot be entirely conclusive, because as far as we know, a candidate family with exactly the correct names to match those appearing in the creche records has no connection with the McCanns or with Leicester. For that reason, I am not declaring game, set and match on these Naylors. That might seem perverse of me, but I just don't feel entirely comfortable jumping to conclusions, especially when we know identity-theft to be so common.
As for a "Madeleine", an anonymous poster said on a blog two years ago (without revealing any more) that there exists a Madeline(sic) Elizabeth Naylor of the correct age. My friend and I know where she lives, but we're still working on the ancestry side of it.

by Shibboleth 23.10.10 19:32

kikoraton wrote:Yes, I think it can, Stella. Heavy downstroke followed by light upstroke. Though whether it is a faithful imitation of Mr Naylor's own signature, who knows??? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Just for a change, here are four items from the PJ copy of the creche files - Ainne Naylor, this time.

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Shibboleth - any interpretation, please?

Hi Kikoraton. I have been on a break for the last couple of days, so I have just seen this. Let me have a bit of time to peruse this and I will get back to you. But at first glance I would say that signature 2 is a "forgery".

by littlepixie 23.10.10 20:09

Do we know if MEN was in PDL or is that what we are trying to find out?

by kikoraton 23.10.10 21:24

M (spelled differently to the one we are used to) EN was mentioned out of the blue by an anonymous poster on a Portuguese blog, two years ago. It's as though someone with a bit of knowledge was trying to drop a hint. It would be remiss of us if we didn't pursue it, given the interest we have acquired independently in anyone called Naylor (as a result of the handwriting thing).
If my last post seemed rather confusing, let me just say that if GM was, as I believe, writing someone else's child (a Naylor child) into the creche, then that is of huge significance. It would show that GM and this Naylor were friends or collaborators, and that this particular Naylor had passed under the radar. Since it began on 29 April, it would also suggest that something had been planned well before the holiday, in my opinion.
Naylor is a common name. The family booked in on the MW list almost certainly came from London. There are other Robert Naylors much nearer to Rothley.

by **Tony Bennett** 23.10.10 21:52

kikoraton wrote:...I came to the conclusion that Robert Murat and his friends were coerced or persuaded by influential people in PdL to allow their mobiles and landlines to be borrowed so that the cover-up - necessary to get the Tapas suspects off scot-free - could be carried out without raising immediate suspicion. In other words, Murat and company's phone activity looked innocent, or at least it could be explained away, whilst in fact being directly related to the cover-up of Maddie's death and the concealment which took place afterwards. I concluded that suspicious phone calls were being made from as early as 2200 on first of May, and that we ought to be looking at that time or thereabouts for the first signs of Maddie's demise. Just nine hours later, KM began wiping calls from her mobile history, and GM embarked on his series of received voicemails – twelve in all – to which he made not a single reply on his own mobile. This suggests to me that he was only interested in receiving instructions or confirmation of upcoming plans. The senders of those voicemail messages have never been identified...

Without commenting in detail as yet on the '29 April demise' theory, I would mention one point.

I think the sudden departure of Robert Murat early on 1st May does call for further explanation. A 'phone call a few hours earlier from I think Michaela Walczuk, a hurried internet booking of a flight around midinight IIRC, and then a 5.00am drive with his sister to Exeter Airport.

Then, as I've documented in detail within our lengthy article 'Robert Murat - from arguido to applause' article on our website [[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - visit the 'Articles' page], he gets at last 17 matters wrong about his movements on 1st to 4th May when interviewed by police on 15 May 2007. When re-interviewed on 10 and 11 July, he had to correct those 17 errors. He claimed he'd been 'tired and confused' on 15 May which is why he made so many 'mistakes'. Hmmm.

Let's leave out for the moment why the men of CEOP, Control Risks Group and MI5 profiled Murat as the likely abductor, let's leave out Jane Tanner 'adamantly' insisting that Murat was the man-carrying-child she saw on 3 May, and let's leave out what that cosy tete-a-tete between Murat and Brian Kennedy and their respective lawyers was all about on 13 November 2007. Let's also leave out how convenient it was for Murat to be on hand to translate all those early interviews.

Murat still has to account for why he dashed over to Praia da Luz on the early flight to Faro.

Had something already happened to Madeleine by the evening of Monday 30 April?