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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

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Post by kikoraton on 27.11.10 11:18

With pre-planning, it's only too easy to arrange for the substitute to be available.
This thread is actually very simple: it proposes a theory as to how we can explain the nanny's honest conviction that Madeleine was in the creche until 5.30 on 3 May. A Madeleine was, but it was not Madeleine McCann. It was a substitute MM. All pre-planned. As Stella has pointed out so succinctly, there were 4.5 hours for the substitute with her parents to get the heck out of PdL.
I do not have any idea how MM died, tho' I presume she did, from the evidence of the cadaver dogs. I think she must have died 28/29 April and never appeared at the creche.

I note how, on another forum, a poster who was aggressively stalking me, insisting that Madeleine died by an unfortunate accident after 5.30 on 3 May and the unhinged parent took her body past a group of tourists (Smith) at 9.30 that night, now admits that I have finally "stumbled upon" the solution, but castigates me for getting there via the "wrong" route!!
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 11:19

Well soultheif, someone died in apartment 5a and the only person missing is Madeleine.

I'm not in the camp though that this was a planned event long before they went on holiday. Could anyone be that evil? If that had been the case, there would be no scent of cadaver found in 5a, or forensics in the car. Common sense and logic tells me that would have all been taken care of much better.

It's just a guess, but with the creche sheet missing for the twins on the 29th and on that same day a Maddie was signed into creche much later that day at 9.45 compared to all the other days, I feel that a terrible accident happend either on the day they arrived, the 28th, or sometime before breakfast on the 29th.
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Post by ufercoffy on 27.11.10 11:31

Stella wrote:I'm not in the camp though that this was a planned event long before they went on holiday. Could anyone be that evil?

I guess an evil person might think about getting rid of a very difficult child if there was something to be gained, like an online shop selling good quality wristbands and tshirts.... then a book deal and maybe a movie. Such a thing would be a very good marketing ploy, especially when the website for the online shop has the date 2006 when the child went missing in 2007. Forward planning and all that.

nah nobody could be that evil, especially doctors.

Doctors aren't capable of that kind of thing.

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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 11:36

@kikoraton wrote:

I note how, on another forum, a poster who was aggressively stalking me, insisting that Madeleine died by an unfortunate accident after 5.30 on 3 May and the unhinged parent took her body past a group of tourists (Smith) at 9.30 that night, now admits that I have finally "stumbled upon" the solution, but castigates me for getting there via the "wrong" route!!

laugh via the "wrong" route ?? laugh That's hillarious, I'm so pleased I'm out of there.
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Post by ufercoffy on 27.11.10 11:38

@kikoraton wrote:I do not have any idea how MM died, tho' I presume she did, from the evidence of the cadaver dogs. I think she must have died 28/29 April and never appeared at the creche.

According to Philomena McCann:

The book will be published on April 28, 2011 – to coincide with the fourth anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance from the Praia da Luz resort.

thinking

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Post by theolivebranch on 27.11.10 11:47

I discovered this amazing thread only last night after an email from Tony Bennett. I am not computer savy at all hence my problem moving around the forum, a bit like an old dear with a zimmer frame in a room full of furniture How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 160807 . I am onto page 25 so will you please go steady, hubby wants to eat today How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 82678
Anyway great stuff I am reading and it is really making me think outside of the box. Thankyou How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 725573 for all the sleuthing.
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 11:48

@ufercoffy wrote:
Stella wrote:I'm not in the camp though that this was a planned event long before they went on holiday. Could anyone be that evil?

I guess an evil person might think about getting rid of a very difficult child if there was something to be gained, like an online shop selling good quality wristbands and tshirts.... then a book deal and maybe a movie. Such a thing would be a very good marketing ploy, especially when the website for the online shop has the date 2006 when the child went missing in 2007. Forward planning and all that.

nah nobody could be that evil, especially doctors.

Doctors aren't capable of that kind of thing.

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 Hs10



I'm not saying that Doctor's are incapable of that sort of thing. Only that there were other alternatives to getting rid of a difficult child and if the motive was all about money, they would not have found blood in the apartment or car or have to make all those early calls. That's all.
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 27.11.10 12:53

Stella wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:
Stella wrote:I'm not in the camp though that this was a planned event long before they went on holiday. Could anyone be that evil?

I guess an evil person might think about getting rid of a very difficult child if there was something to be gained, like an online shop selling good quality wristbands and tshirts.... then a book deal and maybe a movie. Such a thing would be a very good marketing ploy, especially when the website for the online shop has the date 2006 when the child went missing in 2007. Forward planning and all that.

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 172348 nobody could be that evil, especially doctors.

Doctors aren't capable of that kind of thing.

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 Hs10



I'm not saying that Doctor's are incapable of that sort of thing. Only that there were other alternatives to getting rid of a difficult child and if the motive was all about money, they would not have found blood in the apartment or car or have to make all those early calls. That's all.

I agree with Stella. I also believe that this was a business meeting rather than a holiday whereas if you were pre-planning a murder you would probably avoid a resort full of friends and colleagues and opt for somewhere a bit quieter and remote.

I do not think it was an 'accident' by the way.

The website may have been up and running because the Macraes have been into mail order marketing for quite a while as well as law and order in Ullapool.
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Post by Rainbow on 27.11.10 14:08

Why would the parents of the substitute even go along with such a hair-brained scheme,the propensity for things to go wrong is immense and they too would be in the mire.
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Post by Cheshire Cat on 27.11.10 14:29

@Rainbow wrote:Why would the parents of the substitute even go along with such a hair-brained scheme,the propensity for things to go wrong is immense and they too would be in the mire.

I have been thinking this as well. But I do believe there is something fishy about the creche records as shown by the detailed analysis of the signatures.
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 14:43

@Rainbow wrote:Why would the parents of the substitute even go along with such a hair-brained scheme,the propensity for things to go wrong is immense and they too would be in the mire.

probably for the same reason that the rest of the tapas group all went along with the charade.

Matt Oldfield told the whole world that he knew what really happened, when he said that he offered to check on the McCann children for that night only, as "it was a nice thing to do, seeing as it was the last night". But it wasn't the last night, was it? They still had one more night to go after that and drops himself right in it.

One day they will all end up in the same place once again, but this time it will be behind bars.
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Post by Irish Eyes on 27.11.10 14:57

Stella wrote:One day they will all end up in the same place once again, but this time it will be behind bars.

How is that going to happen when the case is shelved and the arguidos are not interested in asking the case to be reopened?
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 15:09

I can explain that one with 2 words. New evidence.
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Post by listener on 27.11.10 15:46

Stella wrote:I can explain that one with 2 words. New evidence.


On this thread I have seen examples of very similar handwriting by supposedly different men, which leads me to ask – How much would it cost to hire a professional Graphologist to analyze the records and give opinion? Would this be a worthwhile exercise?
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Post by kikoraton on 27.11.10 17:01

It can't be hair-brained, since it has survived this long without any police force getting a sniff of a result.
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Post by theolivebranch on 27.11.10 17:37

WOW, in the end hubby made a pile of sandwiches and sat by me to read, and agrees 100% about the signatures, as I do.
Just to throw in, a very senior member of the police force in the UK commented, in a rather well oiled state, that the cadaver scent had been planted. But he didn't say by whom.
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Post by soulthief on 27.11.10 18:25

Stella wrote:Well soultheif, someone died in apartment 5a and the only person missing is Madeleine.

I'm not in the camp though that this was a planned event long before they went on holiday. Could anyone be that evil? If that had been the case, there would be no scent of cadaver found in 5a, or forensics in the car. Common sense and logic tells me that would have all been taken care of much better.

It's just a guess, but with the creche sheet missing for the twins on the 29th and on that same day a Maddie was signed into creche much later that day at 9.45 compared to all the other days, I feel that a terrible accident happend either on the day they arrived, the 28th, or sometime before breakfast on the 29th.

I agree it was unlikely pre planned prior to going to PDL But then there are those leaflets! & I am also doubtful of it happening the day of the 3rd either because there is just not enough time for them to do all they needed to do to cover up, tha'ts where I wonder about Amaral's theory of her looking out the window as Gerry spoke to Wilkins about 9pm, that gave them even less time. I think the night Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine weeping for 45 mins is when it happened, her crying was meant to stop abruptly, i think that was on the 1st or 2nd , NOTHING explains their lack of grief though, the calmness, tha'ts when I go back to premeditated. There is a quote on NHS abuse of Power, its something like they must have at least talked about this eventuality and had a degree of planning to not contradict eachother! Shocked
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Post by Jill Havern on 27.11.10 18:30

@soulthief wrote:There is a quote on NHS abuse of Power, its something like they must have at least talked about this eventuality and had a degree of planning to not contradict eachother! Shocked

Dr Christian Ludke.

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2009/08/dr-christian-ludke-criminal.html
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Post by kikoraton on 27.11.10 18:50

Lovely to see you here, olive! Glad hubby is on board.
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Post by soulthief on 27.11.10 18:59

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@soulthief wrote:There is a quote on NHS abuse of Power, its something like they must have at least talked about this eventuality and had a degree of planning to not contradict eachother! Shocked

Dr Christian Ludke.

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2009/08/dr-christian-ludke-criminal.html
Yes, thats the one. yes
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Post by Autumn on 27.11.10 20:24

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@soulthief wrote:There is a quote on NHS abuse of Power, its something like they must have at least talked about this eventuality and had a degree of planning to not contradict eachother! Shocked

Dr Christian Ludke.

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.com/2009/08/dr-christian-ludke-criminal.html

Thanks for finding that, I came across it again a few days ago and was going to post here but couldn't find it tearhairout Very interesting and a 'must read' for anyone who has not yet read it thumbsup
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Post by soulthief on 27.11.10 20:31

The Vernon Coleman one on NHS Abuse of power too well worth a read.
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Post by YNG on 27.11.10 21:55

A mistake or slip up How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 21 234726



D Webster - " he’d asked for several child seats for the err bus because obviously there were five children in the group and I think there was only, I don’t know if it was one seat or two seats, so there was a bit of time spent at the airport trying to find other seats err and I don’t think we did manage to get all six in the end so we just sort of risked it and were driven to Praia Da Luz.”
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Post by Guest on 27.11.10 23:06

The D Webster slip of the tongue. I have THE feeling that this is just à mistaken quote, wrongly written down and not seen and corrected before signing. I tend to think she must have said seats instead of six, and that passed unnoticed by all parties. Just my opinion of course.
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Post by gazza5678 on 27.11.10 23:06

@Cheshire Cat wrote:

I believe Gerry was on his way to Praria Da Luz to participate in a business meeting along with many of the other folk staying at the Ocean Club (e.g. Weinberger and some of the financiers). Perhaps a project with commercial and defence sensitivities, perhaps to discuss a patent or innovation in the field of medical diagnostics / defence. Pretty dull but important stuff.

When something happened to Madeleine (she may have initially been fatally injured?) perhaps the cover-up began (and I mean a cover-up of the event / meeting / conference as well as Madeleine).


I think that this post fom Cheshire Cat gives me some insight into what may have really happened.

But what I am trying to get my head around is what it could have been that was so secret, and/or so important, and/or so sensitive, about this 'business meeting' that meant that the death of a little girl should require a cover up of, not only the death of the girl, but also of the meeting itself. A cover up which seemingly involves the UK Government no less.
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