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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 Mm11

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How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

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Post by kikoraton on 01.11.10 12:23

This is what you missed, daoud!! I don't think the Judge will mind you knowing that in some circles she is "the Golden Judge". Nor do I mind that they think I am mad - I'm more interested that they are trying to confuse their readers that my theory is based on the "mis-identification of a signature". I have no doubt who wrote it, nor whose siggy was being imitated.

"Still sofa bouncing from their great coup of attracting the maddest and most deranged posters from the MCF, and still happy to allow them to build a theory based on the mis-identification of signatures, Havern's very own Golden Judge has some sound advice for the sleuths:

Re: How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged"

Post Judge Mental Yesterday at 5:14 pm
The work you are doing to prove something we have always been extremely suspicious of, has come as a great relief to oneself. "
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Post by Guest on 01.11.10 13:02

kikoraton youaretheman big grin

parapono

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Post by Daoud on 01.11.10 13:02

Hola Kiko,
I can't say that I understood exactly what it is I'm supposed to have missed - I guess you're referring to the 5.30 or later on the 3rd of May theorists? But anyway, I'm glad to see that you're continuing with the good work. What do you make of Hernani Carvalho's remarks about PdL and dawn?
All the best.
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Post by Shibboleth on 01.11.10 13:05

Well, I do not care what any pros say. I know I am only an amateur but I am more than happy to share what I do know with everybody else here. And I would put serious money on the idea that all of these Ainne Naylor signatures were not written by the same person. There are at least two and possibly three signatories there IMO. Whether any of them are the real Ainne Naylor, I couldn't say; but my hypothesis is that at least one of them isn't!

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“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” ~ Joseph Stalin, 1897-1953
"If Adolph Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway." ~ Joe Strummer, 1952-2002
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Post by Guest on 01.11.10 13:07

I'm a little confused now. I just had a quick look, but will go back and have a better look in a minute, once all the creche links are posted up here for easier reference. But I could not see the 3 years old Carpenter's child, located in room FP02 anywhere ??




All the creche links that we have:

Lobsters Sunday 29th April

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page109-CrecheRecordss.jpg

Lobsters Monday 30th April

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page108-CrecheRecords3.jpg

Lobsters Tuesday 1st May

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page110-CrecheRecords1.jpg

Lobsters Wednesday 2nd May

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page111-CrecheRecords2.jpg

Lobsters Thursday 3rd May

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page107-CrecheRecords3.jpg





Jellyfish Sunday 29th April PM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page112-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg

Starfish Monday 30th April AM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page113-CrecheRecordsS.jpg

Starfish Monday 30th April PM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page114-CrecheRecordsS.jpg



Jellyfish Tuesday 1st May AM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page115-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg

Jellyfish Tuesday 1st May PM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page116-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg

Jellyfish Wednesday 2nd May AM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page117-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg

Jellyfish Wednesday 2nd May PM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page118-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg

Jellyfish Thursday 3rd May AM

MISSING

Jellyfish Thursday 3rd May PM

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page119-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg
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Post by Guest on 01.11.10 13:12

On the 1st May I**y Carpenter was signed in, then her name scrubbed off that list. There is nothing for her for the rest of the week, so if she was in another 3 year old's group, what was that group called and who else was in it?


and why would Stephen Carpenter say that his daughter and Madeleine were in the same group?
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Post by Guest on 01.11.10 13:28

I think our Cat was getting some very good legal advice compared to a lot of other people. If you look closer at her statement, you will see that someone was advising her to initial the tops of every page, which ensures authenticity.

Also take a good look at her signature at the bottom....



http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_253.jpg

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_254.jpg

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_255.jpg

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_256.jpg
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Post by Judge Mental on 01.11.10 13:42

@ Stella

Please ensure that you try to have plenty of rest after your ordeal yesterday. One is wishing you well in gaining the greatest benefit from your injections over the next few days. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 725573

The work being done in this thread is most intriguing.
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Post by Shibboleth on 01.11.10 13:47

You mean the signature that starts below the line then climbs upwards, and has the litte left hand loop on the stroke of the k? Like Ainne Naylor has the little left-hand loop on the upstoke of the r? Just saying.
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Post by Guest on 01.11.10 13:51

Thanks Judge How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 725573 for your very sound advice and will do.

I was just about to make one last post before resting for the day.

This is Charlotte Penningtons signature
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_381.jpg

again, just like Cat, the rest of her statement was initialled, unlike some of the others I have seen. I believe she was in charge of Baby Club How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 302873
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Post by Guest on 01.11.10 13:56

@Shibboleth wrote:You mean the signature that starts below the line then climbs upwards, and has the litte left hand loop on the stroke of the k? Like Ainne Naylor has the little left-hand loop on the upstoke of the r? Just saying.

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 302873
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Post by kikoraton on 01.11.10 16:10

daoud - it's not important. It was something written on a pro.McC forum which led JM to believe that we are getting close to the truth.

OK, just a word of advice to all now, which I am sure will be music to the ears of those with the unenviable task of moderating. We are under close scrutiny, and we must be careful to avoid saying anything which cannot be substantiated with some evidence For instance, if I say I believe that someone is using near-identical handwriting to enter two children into the creche, I have to be able to show what I'm talking about.
And about the signature which I replicated and posted some pages back, I will simply say that I have never believed it to be a copy of R Naylor's of London. I believe it to be a simulation of another Robert Naylor, of Leicestershire. And therein lies a great mystery.
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Post by kikoraton on 01.11.10 19:08

I think Carpenter got it wrong. They weren't in the same group. He must have signed the wrong sheet one day, and had to scrub it out.
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Post by Guest on 02.11.10 8:52

Could this mean then perhaps that the two groups of children were possibly located in the same building? or maybe even in the same room?

It would make sense that there was more than one group in the same room, under the care of a different nanny and therefore had to sign a different creche sheet. It could then perhaps explain why Stephen Carpenter said they were in the same group and on one occasion completed the wrong sheet, if more than one was lying around on the same table.

I couldn't understand why the twins started off in Jellyfish one day and the next went to Starfish, perhaps it was a similar arrangement as above and all they did was change nanny?
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Post by kikoraton on 02.11.10 12:07

Quite probable, Stella. I've seen a photo showing one small group in a very large room. Hope your injection area is not too painful now!
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Post by Guest on 02.11.10 12:28

Thanks Kiko How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 725573 Despite the worst pain ever during the actual process of having facet joint injections. For the first time in a long time, I can now move parts of my back relatively pain free. Two weeks from now I should be feeling the full benefit of them apparently!!! I just hope it lasts a long time, as I'm not sure if I could ever go through that process again.

These creche arrangements have really got my old sniffer going like a gooden. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 670379

Did the McCann's or any of the nanny's ever explain why the twins went from jellyfish to starfish on the 30th ? Changing nanny's after only 1 day, would have been quite distressing for children so young. So why did it happen ?
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Post by Guest on 02.11.10 13:03

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 977352 stella,

Good that your feeling better How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 759815

How do you mean changed nannies?

This is in Catriona Baker's statement:

--Specifies that when looking after children of the missing girl’s age group, each nanny is responsible for approximately seven children, that remain under the care of the same nanny during the whole week.
--States that she knows the McCann family since last Sunday, the 29th of April, 2007, when they enrolled their daughter in the “Minis” service.
--She replies that since that date and until Thursday, the 03rd of May, 2007, she was with Madeleine every day, but is unable to specify if she was present on the Sunday morning.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1452.html#p1452
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Post by Guest on 02.11.10 14:35

Hi Candyfloss How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 977352


I've just been trying to fathom out why the twins went from Jellyfish on day one, to Starfish on day 2, then it seems back to Jellyfish for the rest of the week. At first I thought perhaps the different group names were headed up by different nanny's and that perhaps the twins changed groups/nanny's that week. But after just reading the same thing you have just posted, the nanny is claiming she was with them the whole week. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 234726 So why did the name change from Jellyfish to Starfish for only one day ?? I have absolutely no idea, but it niggles me ...




Mini club (3-5 yrs)

Supervisors in pecking order, Lyndsay Johnson, then Amy Tierney

1st group Cat Baker (MM & E**a O’Brien)

2nd group Emma Wilding



Toddler club 1 (12m-23m)

nanny's were Shinead Vine, Jacqueline Williams, Leanne Wagstaff

2 sub groups, each group having 3 children

Toddler club 2 (24m-3 yrs) Stacy Portz, Shinead Vine, Sarah Williamson, Susan Owen (AM & SM)





Baby club (3- 11 months)

Supervisors in pecking order Lyndsay Johnson, then Amy Tierney

nanny's were Charlotte Pennington, Lynne Fretter

3 sub groups, each group having 2 babies
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Post by Guest on 04.11.10 10:22

blue GM signs
pink KM signs
yellow CB signs or missing
white MM not signed out

Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.305.305.30
Jellyfish2930123
AM inmissing9.209.209.10missing
AM outmissing12.1512.2012.25missing
PM in2.353.252.302.402.45
PM out5.305.205.205.205.25

Some observations:

Gerry usually did the morning drop off’s and Kate usually did the afternoon drop off’s

30th Madeleine is signed out in the afternoon after only being there for 15 minutes

1st Madeleine is not signed out PM and this time Gerry did the afternoon drop off ?? (odd signature)
Kate it would appear did not visit Lobsters on this day

2nd in the afternoon, Kate signs in as McCann and out as Healey
At lunchtime a large number of children are signed out that day by Cat Nanny

As the week went on, signing in and out got slightly earlier and earlier each day
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Post by Daoud on 04.11.10 15:01

Interesting, Stella.
On a daily basis the McCs seem to have divided the deliveries/collections equally for the two combined groups:

29th - 3 d/c each with two missing
30th - 4 d/c each
1st - 4 for GMcC and 3 for KMcC with one 'not signed out'
2nd - 3 for GMcC and 4 for KMcC with one missing
3rd - 1 for GMcC and 5 for KMcC with two missing

There is probably too little infromation here to discern a significant pattern:
GMcC did 7 of the 10 am deliveries, KMcC 1 and two are missing
GMcC did 4 of the 10 am collections, KMcC 3, Cat Baker 1 and two are missing
GMcC did 2 of the 10 pm deliveries, KMcC 8
GMcC did 2 of the 10 pm collections, KMcC 7 and one is missing

So it seems GMcC was busier in the am sessions (11/20, KMcC 4/20 and 5/20 missing or CB) and KMcC busier in the pm sessions (15/20, GMcC 4/20 and one missing) - the one major discrepancy that I can see is for the 3rd - GMcC 1 am delivery and KMcC 5 with both Jellyfish d&c missing.

So of the 40 deliveries and collections KMcC signed for 19, GMcC for 15, CB for 1 and 5 were missing.

Whether it's of any significance I have no idea.
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Post by Guest on 04.11.10 15:12

It's strange because Catriona Baker in her statement says GM picked up Madeleine the most

[quote - snipped]

I first met Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, at the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children’s bracelets which included their name, any allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch and tea time to take her back. I met Gerry more often as he would come to fetch Madeleine more often than Kate. I also remember that Kate was present for High Tea accompanied by the twins, between 5 and 5.30 in the afternoon.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1452.html#p1452
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Post by Guest on 04.11.10 15:14

sunmontuewedthur
Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.30 5.305.30
the tapas lists are missing from the files
at 1.15 the cleaners' daughter see MM goingup to the Payne's apartment
cleaner finds G&K still in their room,
sometime after 10.00 am
the cleaner also witnesses 1 cot in G&K's bedroom
that's the morning that Cat Nanny signs MM out at 12.30
Madeleine is not signed out
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Post by Guest on 04.11.10 15:17

candyfloss wrote:It's strange because Catriona Baker in her statement says GM picked up Madeleine the most

[quote - snipped]

I first met Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, at the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children’s bracelets which included their name, any allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch and tea time to take her back. I met Gerry more often as he would come to fetch Madeleine more often than Kate. I also remember that Kate was present for High Tea accompanied by the twins, between 5 and 5.30 in the afternoon.

[url=http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1452.html#p1452
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1452.html#p1452[/quote[/url]]



Well done for picking up on this candyfloss. How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 11 259100

This statement is full of holes in my opinion and makes me all the more suspicious.
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Post by Daoud on 04.11.10 16:22

candyfloss wrote:It's strange because Catriona Baker in her statement says GM picked up Madeleine the most

[quote - snipped]

I first met Gerry and Kate McCann on the Sunday morning, 29.04.2007, at the Minis Club. They brought the children and as it was their first day of holidays the normal procedure was that they were allocated a childcare worker. I had previously written the children’s bracelets which included their name, any allergies and relevant information. I stayed with Madeleine, 3 years old, in my group (Minis Club that week) together with E***, daughter of Jane Tanner. Either Kate or Gerry would accompany Madeleine every day in the morning and would return at lunch and tea time to take her back. I met Gerry more often as he would come to fetch Madeleine more often than Kate. I also remember that Kate was present for High Tea accompanied by the twins, between 5 and 5.30 in the afternoon.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1452.html#p1452

Candyfloss, your extract comes from CB's rogatory statement to the LP on 14 of April, 2008
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1453.html#p1453

but your link refers to her statement made to the PJ almost a year earlier (6 of May 2007)
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1453.html#p1452

In between making these two statements she'd been entertained by the Drs McCann at Rothley Mansions, and this is most obviously reflected by the way the good doctors are referred to in the two statements - to the PJ they are 'Madeleine's parents', 'her parents' or the 'McCann family' and these are the only three references to them in the statement.

A year later to the LP they're Kate and Gerry and get many more mentions - ten each to be precise.

In the early statement (which I take to be more reliable, both because it was much closer in time to the events described and because it was prior to the Rothley lollapalooza) she makes no mention of meeting Gerry more often, or of the frequency with which he picked up the kids, all she has to say is this: It was always Madeleine’s parents that would bring her to and fetch her from the “Minis”.

I don't put much store in her later memories...
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Post by Judge Mental on 04.11.10 17:51

One would not give a jot of credence to anything that this young woman has said or has yet to say.
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