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Post by kikoraton on 18.10.10 16:01

Afternoon of 29 April:
How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 CrecheRecords29c

30 April, morning (entered, stupidly, as "Robert Naylor" instead of the child's name). Somebody forgot to include a signature. Whoever signed her in, mistakenly started to write Robert no fewer than three times over the course of the five days.
How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 CrecheRecords30b
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Post by kikoraton on 18.10.10 16:40

What I'm suggesting, is that the same person made both entries, and that this practice started on the first full day of the holiday - on Sunday 29 April. That was the morning on which according to Cat Baker, the registration of the children took place. She added that she could not remember if Maddie McCann was there or not.
Which of the two, Naylor or McCann, made the entry? Well, we've seen GM's signature on many documents, and the signature against Madeleine McCann looks like his to me. So I reckon Gerry made both entries, got flustered and wrote Robert instead of Elizabeth three times. I can see that a pair of friends (which possibly GM and RN are) might agree that one should relieve the other by taking both kids to creche. But if that is the case, why has the friendship been kept secret? Shades of a "10th Tapas" which people used to talk about? And why wasn't GM honest by signing-in Elizabeth under his own initials? Why did he (deep breath while the libel lawyers warm up their engines) imitate Robert Naylor's signature-scribble?
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Post by Shibboleth on 18.10.10 17:29

Again, look closely at the L in both cases. The base is a round base, almost like a curve, instead of a sharp angle between the vertical and horizontal parts of the L. (Sorry I am just dipping in and out today, so I am adding observations as I see them.) Do we have a verified sample of Gerry McCann's handwriting that we could compare this to?
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Post by Guest on 18.10.10 17:36

Article from Dail Mail about Baker

Revealed: The nanny who could help clear the McCanns' name

Last updated at 14:50 14 October 2007

The nanny: Catriona Baker poses in her Mark Warner T-shirt
This is the nanny Madeleine McCann's parents believe will be a key witness in their fight to clear their names and find their daughter.
For five months the identity of the Mark Warner employee who was looking after Madeleine in Praia da Luz's Kids Club in the hours before her disappearance has been a closely held secret.
She was witness to the McCanns' movements during the week they were on holiday in Portugal and fed Madeleine less than three hours before she disappeared.
On the morning after Madeleine's disappearance it is believed she even told Portuguese police of a man she had seen acting 'suspiciously' around the apartments.
Today we can reveal her identity as 20-year-old Catriona Baker, the daughter of a nurse and draughtsman from Manchester.
The McCanns believe Ms Baker is a key witness in the defence that they are assembling with the aid of a team of lawyers and investigators.
Ms Baker has told friends she is convinced of the McCanns' innocence. She is still in contact with Kate McCann and was said by friends to have been hit hard by her charge's disappearance, even being offered trauma counselling by Mark Warner Holidays.
Intriguingly, Ms Baker revealed to one friend - spoken to by this newspaper - that she told Portuguese police of a man she saw acting strangely near the apartments in the days leading up to Madeleine's disappearance on May 3.
Read more...
Bloody footprint found in McCanns' apartment
Nanny to be quizzed over 'Madeleine dumped at sea' claim
She was interviewed for just three hours by police on the morning after Madeleine's disappearance. This compares with the four-and-a-half hours endured by Charlotte Pennington, another nanny at the resort who was witness to Kate's 'hysterical' reaction to Madeleine's disappearance.
The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.They were all linked to the seven holidaymakers who had eaten in the resort's tapas restaurant with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.
It is believed Ms Baker has since been reinterviewed by both British and Portuguese police but she has been told not to comment on the investigation.
The young nanny, described as 'fun and vivacious', has been deeply affected by Madeleine's disappearance, telling friends of nights without sleep and a complete loss of appetite.
Writing to one concerned friend nine days after Madeleine disappeared, she admitted: 'I was her nanny, so it's been tough for me, you wouldn't recognise me.
'It's hit me so hard I've hardly slept or eaten. My mum came to see me, but transferring me to "San Ag" has put me back at stage one as I am so stressed again.
'Love you loads, thanks for writing. I'm sorry I haven't been in touch, I have not been out of the house much.'
To another she added: 'Thanks so much for your support ... I am trying to cope, but not really liking "San Ag"... I don't plan on staying here. If they don't send me back to Portugal. I'll go home.'
She had been introduced to Gerry and Kate McCann on the first evening of their holiday at the Ocean Club resort as Madeleine's designated nanny and had developed a 'good relationship with the couple and especially with Madeleine', according to a friend.
On the day Madeleine disappeared Ms Baker had spent nearly six hours with the toddler, along with five other children aged between three and five. Two of those are believed to have been the children of the McCanns' friends, David and Fiona Payne.
Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, were placed in the resort's Kids Club, where Ms Baker worked, at around 10am while their parents took a stroll before collecting them at 12.30pm for lunch back at the apartment.
In the afternoon, the McCanns played tennis while Madeleine went back to her nanny at the children's club, who gave her tea at 5.30pm. Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were picked up by their parents at 6pm.Ms Baker was not with the McCanns when the alarm was sounded over Madeleine's disappearance just before 10pm. However, she joined the search shortly after 11pm after completing her duties as a night babysitter.Mark Warner did not return Ms Baker to Portugal from Greece and she has since left the company. She is now a live-in nanny looking after three children. Her location is being withheld on the request of the McCanns.
Ms Baker refused to comment about the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, adding: 'I don't want to go through


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-487506/Revealed-The-nanny-help-clear-McCanns-name.html#ixzz12jAwnsXB



Bridgette O'Donnell's version

The next night we stayed in. It was Thursday, May 3.

Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there, but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann



And from Baker's statement to the police

[i]“On Thursday the 3rd of May 2007, I remember Gerry dropping Madeleine off at the club between 9.15 and 9.20 a.m. I don’t remember who picked her up for lunch that day, but in the afternoon she returned for a swim. We carried out activities with other children. On that day, we practiced sailing and I remember meeting friends of Madeleine’s parents on the beach, David and Jane. At around 2.45 p.m., Madeleine returned to the Minis Club above the reception, but I don’t remember who brought her. On that afternoon, we went swimming. Kate picked up Madeleine in the Tapas Bar area, and as far as I remember, she was wearing sports clothes at that time and I deducted that she had been jogging. It was around 3.35 – 6 p.m.”[/i

Also this from her statement

“The twins sometimes looked tired at tea time, after a long day and maybe also because of the heat, but I never saw a reason for concern with the McCanns children or their behaviour.”

Wasn't the weather quite cool that week, Didn't Mrs Healy say something to that effect?


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/11/tvmais-at-what-time-did-maddie-leave.html





So was Madeleine on the tennis courts that afternoon, or swimming/sailing? And she can't remember a time when Madeleine was picked up, she says between 3.35 - 6 pm??? what
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Post by Guest on 19.10.10 8:39

@Shibboleth wrote:Again, look closely at the L in both cases. The base is a round base, almost like a curve, instead of a sharp angle between the vertical and horizontal parts of the L. (Sorry I am just dipping in and out today, so I am adding observations as I see them.) Do we have a verified sample of Gerry McCann's handwriting that we could compare this to?


This is the only example of Gerry's signature prior to that holiday, that I know of.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P10/10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2511.jpg
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Post by Shibboleth on 19.10.10 8:51

Thank you, Stella. It is difficult to tell. The Ms look different. But the capital C and the small c, in relation to the M, look very similar. I might have time later on today to have a closer look.
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Post by kikoraton on 19.10.10 9:39

G formed in the same way as his creche initialising. Round-topped M. C identical.
That's fine. It was GM who signed in "Maddie", no doubt about that. Are the figures and letters of the Naylor sign-in performed by the same hand?
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Post by Shibboleth on 19.10.10 9:58

@kikoraton wrote:G formed in the same way as his creche initialising. Round-topped M. C identical.
That's fine. It was GM who signed in "Maddie", no doubt about that. Are the figures and letters of the Naylor sign-in performed by the same hand?

I would have said so, yes. In the meantime, I leave you with this. I don't think any further explanation will be required.

How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 5095769077_ba993e58d2_m
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Post by kikoraton on 19.10.10 11:56

So we're agreed on that. I'll show you some signature-squiggles next.
Meanwhile, let's think about the circumstances in which Elizabeth's father, apparently not participating in her signing-in, might have allowed GM to do it on his behalf.
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Post by Shibboleth on 19.10.10 12:16

Bring it on, Kikoraton. Like I said, I am no expert, but if I can help, I will.
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Post by kikoraton on 19.10.10 16:05

Well, that's encouraging! In another place, they used to say "put a sock in it, kiko...we know Cat Baker couldn't have been mistaken, and Maddie was taken by fairies after 5.30 on the 3rd". So, here are the first two signatures. Sort out the "R.....N" scribble from the signatures on either side. Sometimes, the "R.....N" stretches over three or four lines above and below:

29 April, morning. It's Eva or Ena (Berry) above, and L Mann beneath. We're not interested in them.
How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 CrecheRecords29u-3

29 April, afternoon. It's NB (Berry) above, and our old friend GMC beneath. Berry is of no interest.
How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 CrecheRecords29v-2
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Post by kikoraton on 19.10.10 16:15

There won't be any for 30 April, because RN (or, in my opinion) GMcC forget to insert a signature in the morning, and Eliz N did not attend in the afternoon.
And, guess what, when Eliz N doesn't go to creche on any particular session, it's not Gerry but Kate who signs "Madeleine" in. Funny thing, that.
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Post by Guest on 19.10.10 16:25

A very funny thing indeed that Kiko winkwink


I'm still working on your earlier question by the way, I just need more time to see the vista nerdy
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Post by kikoraton on 19.10.10 19:21

Take your time, Stella. There's only one direction this is moving now. I shall check the Spanish press tomorrow for any news of the lifting of the ban.
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Post by kikoraton on 19.10.10 20:43

This is the signature for the morning of 1 May. Remember that at present we are interested only in the ("imitation"??) signature pertaining to the father of Elizabeth Naylor. In the afternoon, it was "Ainne Naylor" who brought her to creche. I'm presenting here all the differing signatures pertaining to the father of the child, for discussion.
Above the R.....N signature is that of Russell O'Brien. Below is that of Julian Totman.
How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 CrecheRecords1u
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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 8:40

Well my dear Kiko, with yesterdays news, I'm not surprised your theory was not allowed to be explored on the other site. I have a very strong feeling we may possibly be getting a bit to close to the truth !!
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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 9:37

OK, I have just started the ground research into the booking of the creche.

List 1, are those individuals who specified on there initial reservation that they required creche facilities.
List 2, are those individuals who had children, but did not specify in advance they would be needing creche facilites.

The names that appear in red, are those individuals who did not reserve the creche, but still managed to get booked into the Lobster group, presumably after they had arrived at the resort.


LIST 1

Berry 1 x mini ending on the 4th ?
Handy 1 x toddler 2
Heselton 1 x toddler 2
Patel 1 x mini
Totman 1 x toddler 2 plus 1 x mini
Reap 1 x mini
Taylor 1 x mini
O’Donnell 1 x mini plus 1 x baby club
Burlton 1 x toddler
Janczur 1 x toddler 2 plus 1 x baby club
Edmonds 3 x juniors
Foster 1 x mini



LIST 2

O’Brien – no
Payne – no
McCann – no
Mann – no
Hynd – no
Clifford – no
Carpenter – no
Thornhill – no
Weinburger – no
Naylor – no a special note on booking says “Aware of no baby club
Mills – no
McCormick – no
Bullen – no

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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 9:52

L Payne was also booked into the Starfish group.

So the question is, if they kicked up so much stink over a listening group before they left, why did the tapas group not book the creche facilities in advance?

Why did Naylor's booking state that he was aware of "no baby group", when there was one for all babies over 3 months old? His youngest was 11 months old, so easily qualified for care.
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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 10:31

S Payne was 11 months old, do we know if she attended baby club? I will check Dave's and Fiona's statements.

The Naylor's also had an 11 month old baby, although claiming not to know about one, could they have later used this facility and met David Payne there?
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Post by Shibboleth on 20.10.10 10:34

Here are the three signtures, in the order in which Kikoraton presented them, and a sample of Kate's signature for comparison.
How Maddie's creche attendance was "arranged" - Page 2 5099249286_69b49af991_m

Purely as an interested amateur, I would say that signatures 1 and 3 are the same. But signature 2 was done in a different hand. I am looking at things like the angle of the letters, pressure of the pen, relationship of the letters to each other, variation in pressure when forming each letter. These are things that are very difficult to copy, because handwriting is a natural function and therefore an unconscious one.

I will now leave it to your good selves to compare all three signatures to Kate's, and judge for yourselves whether any of them match. Let's see whether anyone else comes to the same conclusion as I do! winkwink

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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 10:46

Excellent work Shibboleth. clapping1 It's as I thought. yes

Now we need to find an example of David Payne's signature, there has to be one somewhere in those files.
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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 10:48

From Fiona Payne’s Rogatory Statement:

"All the kids were booked into their relevant kids clubs, S*****t was the only one that was in the baby crèche and that was kind of next door to where Madeleine and E**a were in the sort of older kids club and that was near the main reception".

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm


Unfortunately, the baby creche records are not included in the files, which is a big shame, as we could have checked to see who else was in there?
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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 11:12

This is the last page of David Payne's statement. Is the first signature, with a heavy hand his?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_68.jpg
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Post by Guest on 20.10.10 12:43

I would like to know why Payne, Oldfield and O'Brien's passport is not in the files, when all of the OC and MW staff are? Not unless they are hidden somewhere I cannot find them, but I have spent most of the morning looking for them. Very strange.

thinking
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Post by kikoraton on 20.10.10 16:51

Payne's will be the initials on the first line.
Shibb - why do you think (if I understood you correctly) that KM's signature might relate to our quest?
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