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Let the State Cover Ups Begin:  Hillsborough Disaster - Page 4 Mm11

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Let the State Cover Ups Begin: Hillsborough Disaster

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Post by aquila on 02.07.19 22:04

@BlueBag wrote:Listen willowthewisp... my background is as poor working class as they come.

I lived through the working class 60s and 70s in Nechells Birmingham... slum area.

There were a lot of criminal working class scum out there.

The Police weren't great... the people weren't either.

It wasn't all about "The boys in blue".
...

PS... can you please stop talking in riddles.
There are times when it seems impolite to challenge the ramblings of someone on this forum who seems to hate the police, the establishment and life in general in order to needle in an incoherent way.

I have given up on politeness in this instance.

Willow, bugger orf.
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Post by PeterMac on 02.07.19 22:38

Amen, to that.

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Post by sar on 03.07.19 7:47

@aquila wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:The thing that mostly stopped the violence inside the grounds was ticketing, seating, better stewarding, policing and CCTV.

Outside the grounds improved dramatically as well.

Alcohol inside the grounds had been banned for a few years before Hillsborough and was only allowed some years later (in the concourse and not in the stands) when they thought they had a better handle on crowd control.

You could drink as much Bovril in the stands as you liked though (I used to love it).

Regards Hillsborough... there was certainly a Police cover-up... but the blame has to lie mostly with the fans whose behaviour over the previous decade and a half had triggered them being treated the way they were.

Caged liked animals because they acted like animals.


They were god-awful times.
Fantastic post.
The advent of Acid House and Ecstasy had a huge impact on football.
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Post by Doug D on 03.07.19 8:54

BlueBag:

'Caged liked animals because they acted like animals.'

Don't think it actually came to fruition, but I think it was Ken Bates, the then Chelsea Chairman who wanted to put an electric fence on top as well, to keep the 'fans' back.
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Post by PeterMac on 03.07.19 10:21

He actually built it !
WIKI
In the mid-1980s, he famously erected an electric perimeter fence around the pitch at Stamford Bridge to prevent pitch invasions, but the fence was soon dismantled after the local council refused him permission to turn the electricity on.

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Post by aquila on 03.07.19 11:28

Make of this non-sensical BBC report.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19596766
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Post by BlueBag on 03.07.19 11:43

@aquila wrote:Make of this non-sensical BBC report.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19596766

This is a pathetic attempt to say the fans were not so bad and to blame the Police and authorities.

Very left wing.

Example:
Money has poured in as the game has globalised. The police, authorities and media could no longer get away with the kind of attitude that fans were treated to in the 1980s.

The Police and authorities weren't trying to "get away" with anything.

Many MANY football fans were violent thugs - there could be thousands of them at a single game - and the way they were treated was appropriate to their behaviour at the time.

Was society supposed to be "touchy-feely" about hooligans?

The BBC make me sick.
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Post by aquila on 03.07.19 11:56

@PeterMac wrote:He actually built it !
WIKI
In the mid-1980s, he famously erected an electric perimeter fence around the pitch at Stamford Bridge to prevent pitch invasions, but the fence was soon dismantled after the local council refused him permission to turn the electricity on.
Did he build it under cover of darkness, employing people to erect an electric cage without planning permission and suddenly have his hopes dashed by those darned jobsworth Council people who denied him permission to switch it on? Or was it the health and safety execs who said people could be electrocuted if it rains.

I know this sounds flippant but it isn't.
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Post by ferrotty on 03.07.19 13:11

@Doug D wrote:BlueBag:

'Caged liked animals because they acted like animals.'

Don't think it actually came to fruition, but I think it was Ken Bates, the then Chelsea Chairman who wanted to put an electric fence on top as well, to keep the 'fans' back.
I went mainly to home games and the occasional away game, this was in the late 60s to mid 70s, at the away games there was always confrontations, three incidences that particularly stick in my mind is leaving white heart lane and our bus got stoned and bricked, it was frightening, the next at old trafford when they opened the gates to the away supporters end 10 mins before the game ended and United fans came behind us in the crowd goading for a fight, and the last one at Hillsborough itself where at the very same end the Liverpool fans died (we were below the upper tier)  we were constantly spat on by home fans, yes in those days it attracted a lot of undesirables but you can't tar every supporter with the same stick, the inability of football clubs, councils, the FA and police to do anything constructive to prevent these situations cumulated in the tragedies that were about to unfold.
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Post by BlueBag on 03.07.19 13:35

 but you can't tar every supporter with the same stick


I would argue for away fans you mostly could.

Between the mid-70s and until the late 80s the thousands who traveled to away games were in the main up for a good punch up.

I would say at least 50% if not a lot more were prepared for trouble.

Football attendances were dwindling in the 80s as people like me walked away from the madness that was happening.

Look at Heysel for god's sake... sickening.

Yes authorities could have done more, but if "fans" behaved themselves they shouldn't have needed to.
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Post by Doug D on 03.07.19 14:45

aquila @ #83:


Glasgow Herald 25th April 1985:

Let the State Cover Ups Begin:  Hillsborough Disaster - Page 4 Chelse11
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Post by BlueBag on 03.07.19 16:14

Cattle prods would have been a good idea.
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Post by willowthewisp on 03.07.19 16:44

@PeterMac wrote:Amen, to that.
To aquilla,Petermac, this article is about "State Cover Ups", if you are Not concerned about how the UK Government to have colluded in these practices, then it should Not be a problem?

It is Not about "Hating, Police or the Establishment", it is about the People who initiate the process that endures a "Cover Up" to be required in the first place, Guilty parties being found out?  

It doesn't make it right because you have power that controls, procedures that an innocent person(s) being found guilty in a "Court of Law" by the same process to eliminate the Guilty, but then again ,"If You Make the Laws, You can as Easily Break The Laws?

They are Not riddles, they are facts found out by proper questioning of where Criminal processes had failed to find the "Truth"?

Birmingham Six?

Jailing of Matrix Churchill Directors, supplying of armour, Oil pipes?

Unsolved Murder of "Private Investigator" Mr Daniel Morgan March 1987?

Unsolved Murder of Jill Dando?

Jeremy Thrope, Norman Scott,MP, Hiring Gunman to Shoot Dead his Lover?

Hillsborough, 96 Fans deaths?

Madeleine McCann disappearance May 2007?

Leveson Inquiry?

Child disappearances in around London, "The Meat Rack"?

Haute De La Guraane, Jersey, Savile and cohorts?

Using Dead children's Names for "Under Cover Identity, Police" Civil Rights process?

Just some of the shenanigans the UK Government have had access to, "Conspiracy Theories", nutters or people who wanted to find out the "Truth" of how they ended up as part of a process beyond their control?

Or as George Orwell stated, "Big Brother 1984", Police state?
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Post by willowthewisp on 03.07.19 16:45

@BlueBag wrote:Cattle prods would have been a good idea.
Hi Bluebag, they have a better device, a "Taser Gun"?
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Post by PeterMac on 04.07.19 7:12

Tasers are useless for Crowd Control. But I suspeCt You kneW "That"

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