The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!


Holier Than Thou

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.10.18 17:22

@Verdi wrote:Pope Francis condemns child sex abuse and Church cover-ups

2 hours ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45249109
..................

I have avoided this thread so far.

I've now had a quick scan of it and there is indeed some very interesting material on it, thank you @ Verdi for your amazing work on this thread.

The McCanns' exploitation of their alleged religious faith is certainly a matter of great interest.

The Hubbards have long fascinated me, given that I think they were among the 50-plus people who rushed into Praia da Luz that first week and also their strange and deep friendship with the McCanns over many years.

I will return to Peter Patterson's witness statement later perhaps. Kate having heavily thumbed the pages of 2 Samuel Chapter 12 is, I think, of great relevance to the case, dealing as it does with the death of King David's baby son, the result of his adulterous union with Bathsheba. I suspect, as you suggested, Verdi, that this statement of Patterson's was a concoction to try to minimise the impact of the PJ's revelation that Kate had been desperately thumbing the very page in the Bible which speaks about the death of a young child. 

However, I have popped up on the thread as I have been researching and writing about the Pope's latest child abuse scandal for the Christian newspaper I write for. Basically, the latest scandal is that the current Pope, Francis, not only did nothing about the serial sexual molestation of seminarians by U.S. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick when he became Pope in 2012, he actually not only revoked sanctions that the previous Pope (Benedict XVI) had put in place against McCarrick but actually promoted him, givng him an additional job of selecting clerics for higher office.

This proved too much for senior U.S. Archbishop Vigano, who rushed out an 11-page dossier castigating the current Pope and accusing him of utter hypocrisy and a cover-up. Several senior Cardinals have called on him publicly to resign. 

Just in the past few weeks there have been appalling new reports of industrial-scale child abuse in Pennsylvania and Germany. The German clerical child abuse scandal was too much for one of the German cardinals, who rushed off to the German magazine Der Spiegel ('The Mirror'), venting his rage at the Pope. Here's a quote from a recent German newspaper:

The Cardinal aid: "The Pope preaches mercy, but in reality he is an ice-cold, cunning Machiavellian, and, what is worse – he lies." The cardinal was referring to claims that Francis knew about sexual abuse allegations against US Cardinal Theodore McCarrick long before he admitted he was aware of them or took any action. A report from a high-ranking cardinal in August claimed the pope knew about McCarrick in 2013 - but still employed him as a consultant in naming new American bishops until his resignation in July this year. The report was the main item in this week's Der Spiegel magazine which featured a picture of the pope on the front and was titled Du Sollst Nicht Lügen (Thou Shalt Not Lie).


======

As some on here already know, I hold no brief whatsoever for the Roman Catholic Church; on the contrary I detest it as a very gross corruption of the true message of Christ, and wholly contrary to much of the Bible's teaching.   

I think I avoided even viewing this topic because of its title: 'Holier than Thou'. That's because it's a criticism often made about Christians, portraying them as self-righteous, 'holier-than-thou', hypocrites - and often no better than anyone else, and in fact often worse.

I therefore want to briefly make the point that no-one can become a true follower of Christ without admitting that he is bad, i.e. a sinner. Let me use Christ's very own words: 

"When Jesus heard it, He saith unto them; 'They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." (Mark 2 v 17).

In other words, in becoming a Christian, one must readily accept one's many faults, and look to God to gradually put him right.

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15127
Reputation : 3073
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by BlueBag on 06.10.18 20:26

Pope Francis is evil - he knew and he has been covering up. He still is.

But the "world" loves him because he says all those "progressive" things (that have nothing to do with Christ). 

He's in for a big fall - there are still good people in the Church and they are speaking out against him.
avatar
BlueBag

Posts : 4774
Reputation : 2477
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Verdi on 06.10.18 21:58

@Tony Bennett wrote:I think I avoided even viewing this topic because of its title: 'Holier than Thou'.
I'm sure you realise the title is directed at the McCanns hypocrisy alone - not any specific religious beliefs.

I can't for a moment believe that Roman Catholics are blind to the horrors of the church over decades, child abuse of monumental proportions.   I'm sure it's not church doctrine to turn a blind eye to it's leaders transgressions - or is it?  A moment in the confessional, a few hail Mary's and all is right with the world?

The McCann team have actively strenuously campaigned to convince the world that their daughter, Madeleine, was abducted by a pedophile - a sex abuser of innocent little children, the worse criminal act ever imaginable.

Yet here we have them, two englanders who claim to be Catholics but vacillate considerably when it comes to true devotion.  Rushing off to the holy city to be personally blessed by the head of the Catholic church, to meet his holiness face à face - the biggest rogue on the planet?  A sick mind hiding behind pompous religious regalia who condones child sex abuse without remorse?

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10387
Reputation : 4094
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.10.18 22:54

@BlueBag wrote:Pope Francis is evil - he knew and he has been covering up. He still is.

But the "world" loves him because he says all those "progressive" things (that have nothing to do with Christ).
 

He's in for a big fall - there are still good people in the Church and they are speaking out against him.
+1

____________________

Kate McCann, in her book 'madeleine', page 5: "Since 3 May 2007, there has undoubtedly been much going on behind the scenes we haven't known about and perhaps never will".  Goncalo Amaral: "We will know the truth about what happened to Madeleine when the MI5 files on her case are made public".   

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 15127
Reputation : 3073
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 71
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Verdi on 07.10.18 0:52

Peter Patterson's witness statement

I encouraged Kate to read Psalms X and XX of the Old Testament as I felt these were relevant to her. They are both believers. The Psalms reveal a confidence in God, in his justice and in the question which can be asked ?Why do bad things happen?. Psalms XX is a small oration asking Him to guide and illuminate our path in times of anguish.

The passage which is marked in my wifes bible I believe is Samuel 2:12. This passage is very significant for me and my wife but likely has so significance for Kate. I interpret this passage as saying that even though we cannot be with the two children that we have no lost, we will find them one day.


____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10387
Reputation : 4094
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Verdi on 07.10.18 1:10

Peter Patterson's witness statement  [snipped]


On Friday the 11th of May 2007 we heard rumours that the Portuguese were going to stop the searches. After having passed this information to Kate we met up in the Tapas bar in the resort between 9:30 and 9:45 in the morning. We met for only a half hour to 40 minutes as Kate had to attend a police interview.

During this meeting, I offered Kate a bible.

After meeting with Kate, I returned to Lagos and caught a taxi to Portimao where I had previously (May 2003) visited a Christian bookstore. I went with the purpose to acquire a new bible to help me through the rest of the week. Unfortunately, I did not find the bookstore.

Kate asked me to pray at the Marina, which I did, a number of times during the week. I returned home on Sunday, 13th of May, 2007, leaving from Faro at 9:30.

..........

So, on Friday the 11th May 2007, Peter Patterson caught a taxi from Lagos to Portimao to buy a replacement bible (he didn't find the bookshop) to get him through the rest of the week, having given his wife's bible to Kate McCann highlighting a passage he didn't think relevant to the McCanns plight.  He then left Portugal to return home on Sunday 13th May 2007 - 48 hours later?

Something doesn't add up here.  Altogether a very very strange account.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10387
Reputation : 4094
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Verdi on 07.10.18 1:21

@Tony Bennett wrote:The Hubbards have long fascinated me, given that I think they were among the 50-plus people who rushed into Praia da Luz that first week and also their strange and deep friendship with the McCanns over many years.
I agree, there is something very strange about the Hubbard's + cat, arrival in Praia da Luz within hours of Madeleine's alleged disappearance and their subsequent intimacy.

Immediate thought was Aunt Nora from Canada but the Hubbard's previous location was miles apart so I can't see any connection there.

The coincidence is just too obscure to be taken at face value.

Peter Patterson indicates a past connection with the region in Portugal and Susan Hubbard is said to have knowledge of the Portuguese language, which again indicates a connection with Portugal.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10387
Reputation : 4094
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Holier Than Thou

Post by Verdi on 07.10.18 1:26

Missing Madeleine Vanished on holiday


By NANCY DURHAM (CBC News, Canada): May 2, 2008


One year ago, Kate and Gerry McCann’s holiday on Portugal’s Algarve coast turned into a nightmare. On the second-last night of their vacation, the McCanns, from Leicestershire, England, put their three children to bed: Madeleine, nearly four, and two-year-old twins Sean and Emilie. Then they walked 50 metres to dine at a tapas bar, which is part of the Ocean Club complex in Praia de Luz where they were staying with friends. The couples took turns checking on each other’s children every 30 minutes or so. At around 10 p.m., Kate McCann discovered Madeleine missing from her bed.

In the year since the 3-year-old girl disappeared on May 3, 2007, a Canadian couple has been playing a crucial role of support in the lives of Kate and Gerry McCann.

The Hubbards – Haynes, an Anglican priest who was about to take up a new post as senior chaplain for the Algarve Anglican Church, and Susan, a midwife – arrived in Praia de Luz three days after Madeleine’s disappearance. The town was in chaos as police combed the area looking for the missing British girl, reporters jostled for interviews and helicopters circled in the sky. This was no longer the peaceful tourist town the couple remembered from a previous visit when Haynes temporarily filled the role of Anglican chaplain in the former fishing village. Now he was arriving to take on the job full time.

God brought us here


The Hubbards appear to have had enough of reporters. Yet they agree to open their door to another inquisitive stranger for one reason only: because there’s a chance that giving another interview just might help find the little girl they’ve never met.
The Hubbards now believe Madeleine’s disappearance is the reason they were “called” to Portugal. Susan remembers the moment it hit her.

“It wasn’t until months later, when I saw really why God had brought us here, that I was awestruck that he confirmed we were to be here before we even set foot in our town of Praia de Luz,” she says. “For me, he confirmed it on the plane … the fact that there was a child missing here gave us our first mission before we even set foot in the place.”

Hold on to your baby


Their arrival was unnerving. When their plane landed in Lisbon, Susan was warned.

“This old woman grabbed me, and I was holding on to our five-month-old son, Caspian, and she grabbed my arm and spoke to me in Portuguese: ‘Hold on to your baby; there’s been an English child taken.'”

At first, Susan double-locked the doors and windows to keep their three children safe. Caspian has an older sister, Gabriela, 9, and brother, Sebastian, now 10. Soon, the family relaxed, and Haynes, too, saw this was the place they were meant to be.

“It was pretty clear that He was using us, of the same age [as the McCanns] and with small children and Susan speaking Portuguese … and being able to relate to them in a tiny way, to lead them in prayer and just to walk with them,” he said.

Haynes Hubbard loves travel, so when it was time to move on from his Dunnville, Ont., parish, he and Susan saw the job opening in Praia de Luz as an opportunity. Haynes says he felt a little guilty “in terms of my ministry, wanting to travel,” but a friend encouraged him to see it as a gift, pointing out that he could be useful abroad.


Rural Ontario roots


It’s hard to imagine a couple better suited to extend the hand of friendship to Kate and Gerry McCann, who are also devout Christians. Although the McCanns are Roman Catholic, in this seaside town, the lines between Catholic and Protestant are blurred. Both faiths share the pretty, white and mustard yellow-trimmed church, Our Lady of Light, which sits just above the shimmering beach in the town centre.


The McCanns were soon attending Haynes Hubbard’s weekly services, and Susan Hubbard reached out to Kate McCann. In keeping with her rural Ontario upbringing, she made her approach in that very Canadian way of offering food.

“It’s something my mother would always do, being a part of the church community in Canada,” Susan said.

More gifts of food followed, and notes, and soon a warm friendship between Susan Hubbard and Kate McCann began.

Susan wants it known that their friendship is not one-sided. She describes how throughout the McCanns’ own desperate ordeal, Kate inquired about the Hubbards’ children.

“That’s how she is,” Susan said. “In the middle of her grief, she still is such a caring, loving friend.”

In fact, Susan says, it was the McCanns who helped the Hubbards settle in to their new parish. Susan has visited the McCanns since their return to England last September, and the two women keep in close touch through text messages and e-mail.

‘Pray for me’


The Hubbards have faithfully stood by the McCanns throughout their ordeal, and they continue to do so. They hold weekly vigils for Madeleine in Our Lady of Light. A photograph of the little girl’s smiling face is on the wall by the altar. Beside it, the words “pray for me” are written.

Sightings of Madeleine have been reported across Europe and as far away as Australia, each one turning out to be a disappointment. At summer’s end last year, and with no clue to Madeleine’s disappearance, the Portuguese police named her parents as suspects, which in Portugal allows police to question witnesses more thoroughly.

No charges have been laid against the McCanns, but British tabloid newspapers turned on the couple, printing dozens of false stories filled with rumour and innuendo suggesting they were responsible for their daughter’s disappearance. The McCanns sued, and in March, the Express newspaper group paid more than $1 million in damages to the couple and printed front-page apologies. The McCanns are using the funds to support their campaign to find Madeleine as well as to launch a program in Europe similar to the North American Amber Alert system used to find missing children.

The Hubbards, like the McCanns, believe Madeleine may well be alive, and they pray for her safe return. The Hubbards’ faith in God is unwavering, though Susan Hubbard wonders “why our prayers haven’t been answered.”


“I don’t understand that,” she says. “I’ve seen the letters come into their home and their hands. How could so many people be praying for the exact same thing and it not happen? It’s hard.”

http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2008/05/02/profile-susan-hubbard/

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 10387
Reputation : 4094
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum