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Post by Guest 06.03.19 11:51

Doug D wrote:BlueBag:

The more I listen to Darren Plyford's phone call the more I think he was following the person, not in front.

I agree, but if DP was being followed up Union Street, 'trying to get away from him' and turned right in Huddersfield Road and then looked back and saw white cap had turned left, he could then turn round and follow from a safe distance.


Obviously difficult with snippets, not the full phone call, but why say 'He's walking away from Vaults pub' unless he went past, up to the crossing before he crossed over? 'He's crossed the road now, towards the Vaults pub'. Clearly not in much of a hurry if he did.
So if he did turn right (which now seems probable although the call seems continuous).... he then turned around and followed him all the way up the road towards the pub.

He's following a man with a gun and knifes who has just been "shooting everybody".

He did say "walking away" from the pub as well.

When he says "he's just gone behind the pub" this must mean (from behind POV) he turned right off Huddersfield Road into Brookroyd Lane.

He was definitely observing him at this point from behind and down Huddersfield Road.

Questions:
Did he see him go down John Nelson Close?
Did he look down John Nelson Close?
How long was he waiting before the person came back out with a different cap? 
What was he doing whilst he was waiting?
Why was he waiting?
Did the Police say they were on their way?
Did they say when?
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Post by Doug D 06.03.19 13:18

Add to that 'where were you when the shooting happened and what did you see & do?' and they are exactly the questions Richard would have wanted to ask him.

So what makes them so sensitive that Richard gets shut down in the way that he reports?
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Post by Guest 06.03.19 15:44

I agree the shut-down and the visit by the Police is a bit sinister.

They don't want people looking at this too closely.

I don't know how FOI works, but is it possible to get the full call to the Police released?
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Post by Phoebe 06.03.19 19:32

Having watched Richard D Hall's documentary a few things bother me. It is stated that Tommy Mair had no interest in politics, yet a quick internet search revealed that he had hand-written written three letters to the "South Africa Patriot" as far back as 1988. These hand-written letters allegedly show Mair's admiration for the BBB - "Die Blanke Bevrydingbeweging" or "The White Liberation Movement". Scans of the letters were provided by Alan Harvey, editor of "The South African Patriot" who sought to distance himself from Mair. Given that these letters are handwritten, it should be easy to determine whether or not they were indeed written by Tommy Mair. I find the sign off ie "racial regards - Thomas A Mair" rather alarming to say the least.
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Post by Guest 06.03.19 22:10

Who is Alan Harvey?

Why is he distancing himself by revealing letters no one knew existed and he didn't have to reveal?

He's done the opposite.
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Post by Phoebe 06.03.19 23:35

@ BlueBag.

When I started (out of curiosity) looking up info on Thomas Mair I came across the name Asa Winstanley who had obviously written about Jo Cox's murder. From what I can gather, this Asa Winstanley is-

 Asa Winstanley is an investigative journalist and associate editor with The Electronic Intifada. He lives in London. Biography here.

  • Twitter: @AsaWinstanley


It appears The Electronic Intifada is a pro Palistinian site and according to them Jo Cox was a member of  "Labour friends of Palestine"

The handwritten letter from Mair was obtained by them from the Editor of "The South Africa Patriot", Alan Harvey, and has been scanned onto their website. In other words one can see and read it. It certainly looks genuine. The website quotes Det. Superintendent Nick Wallen as dismissing any notion that Mair had ever been a leader of any far-right group -

"There’s “no evidence of that at all,” he said of the idea that Mair may have led a neo-Nazi or other far-right group..Asked of possible links between Mair and far right groups, Wallen said it was possible but “highly unlikely” because Mair is a man who “cannot interact” and it was “wholly wrong” to think him part of a wider group...."


However-


It appears that Mair may been on the police radar for quite some time. According to "Hatewatch", an American informant for the FBI andMI 5, named Todd Blodgett helped to arrange a meeting in 2000 in London for William Pierce - head of the Neo N. group National Alliance. According to Blodgett, who reported back on this meeting to his controllers, Tommy Mair was  one of about 20 racist activists in attendance. -
 
“From what I could surmise, Tommy Mair was loosely affiliated with the Leeds chapter of the National Alliance,” Blodgett said. “He was a working class kind of guy who I think was very well read. He was self-educated. I remember he talked about a book he read by [David] Irving,” an infamous British Holocaust denier. At one point, Blodgett mentioned Winston Churchill to Mair during the two- to three-hour meeting. “As soon as I said that, he kind of made a face and he referred to Churchill as a kike-loving bastard,” he said. “I still remember that.”



I have no idea how truthful any of this stuff is, but
I have a sneaking suspicion that the police may have been aware of and keeping a watching brief on Tommy Mair and that this is why they were able to identify their culprit so swiftly and knew his name. I suspect what is being covered up might be what could result in accusations of police ineptitude if it emerged they considered Mair a real threat but cocked up enough to allow a politician to be assassinated.
 All my own musings I stress, but it seems more credible to me than using imposters in court. 
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Post by Guest 07.03.19 7:36

I've been doing some digging.

Apparently the "National Alliance" were a bit puzzled about them having a "chapter" in Leeds.

Seeing as they didn't have one.

Also Alan Harvey is well known in "far-right" circles as being anti-far right, pro-Israel, pro-Zionism.

The complete opposite of a "Nazi".

I think it's odd that a website for an "organisation" (one man in a bedroom) appears in 2016  that is just a dump for all it's newsletters going back to the 1990's.

Very odd.

It's all very strange and I would not trust a single thing that has the Southern Law Poverty Center associated with it.

There is not a single piece of evidence that Tommy Mair engaged in any far-right activity.

There is plenty of puzzlement on how a loner like Tommy Mair could have got that gun.
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Post by Guest 07.03.19 8:08

I think its known as a "legend". A fake profile on a real person, who they intend to use further down the line.  To back up a bogus story, discredit them or generally "fit up" in some way . They create a legend well in advance for when they need them. Some will get used some wont. It seems to start after a suitable "candidate" comes to their attention for something trivial.
If ever strange things or unsolicited mail, orders for incriminating goods or inexplicable social incidents occur . . . a legend may well be in process.
It is wholly despicable and immoral, but that is what alphabet agencies do . The people employed seem to lose their moral compass, or only the most unhinged and lacking in empathy "progress" up their ladder.
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Post by sallypelt 07.03.19 9:58

Phoebe wrote:Having watched Richard D Hall's documentary a few things bother me. It is stated that Tommy Mair had no interest in politics, yet a quick internet search revealed that he had hand-written written three letters to the "South Africa Patriot" as far back as 1988. These hand-written letters allegedly show Mair's admiration for the BBB - "Die Blanke Bevrydingbeweging" or "The White Liberation Movement". Scans of the letters were provided by Alan Harvey, editor of "The South African Patriot" who sought to distance himself from Mair. Given that these letters are handwritten, it should be easy to determine whether or not they were indeed written by Tommy Mair. I find the sign off ie "racial regards - Thomas A Mair" rather alarming to say the least.
Lee Harvey Oswald
Barry George

Now WHY does this J Cox case make me think of these people?
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Post by Tony Bennett 07.03.19 10:39

BlueBag wrote:I've been doing some digging.

It's all very strange and I would not trust a single thing that has the Southern Law Poverty Center associated with it.


SLPC is basically a wholly-owned subsidiary of the U.S. Democrat Party - which is currently turning into a hard left, Marxist/Communist-style party, very much parallel to the current Momentum-dominated Labour Party under Marxists Jeremy Corby and John McDonnell.

@ sallypelt

You mentioned Lee Harvey Oswald and Barry George.

It's interesting that Richard Hall's recent film Kill Jill (on the murder of Jill Dando) implicates the British security services as responsible for the 'nail bombing' killings two weeks before Jill Dando was killed AND in the murder of Jill Dando.

The same security services as he now alleges framed Tommy Mair.

The same security services that Goncalo Amaral alleges have perpetrated a 12-year cover-up of the real reason for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Amy Dean 07.03.19 11:13

Apologies if it was mentioned in the documentary - I don't remember it though - but I presume that paramedics arrived on the scene as well as the police.
Did they attempt to revive Jo as would normally happen in any situation? If so, how long did they continue before realising there was no hope?

If there were no paramedics and no attempts to help her, something is definitely wrong!
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Post by Phoebe 07.03.19 11:33

My problem is that, IMO, the man in the police interview video is identical to the man in the close-up photo, eyebrows and all! If it's not Mair then it's his identical twin. The angle of the camera from above and the fact that he keeps his head down explains why the slight bump on his cheek isn't conspicuous. If it were such a distinguishing feature, then police would certainly have faked such an obvious, important detail, given how elaborate this hoax would have had to be and the level of careful planning that would have gone into it. They must have known this interview would become public. What did his family and brothers say about the man in the interview - did they state it was not the real Tommy. All we are told is that the interview was shown to a couple of people who knew Tommy and they felt it was n't him. This man refuses to engage and if it IS Tommy Mair, and he IS innocent then one would expect him to protest his innocence. The fact that he doesn't suggests guilt. I don't really heed the testimonies from neighbours saying he wouldn't harm a fly. There is testimony from friends telling us the McCanns would never fake their daughter's abduction.! There are, allegedly, also accounts from local  cab-drivers who claim he had often been racially abusive to them and another (allegedly) from a witness who claims that on that morning he was very agitated and mumbling about Asians. Some of his neighbours (who claimed he was harmless) also stated that he had been under increasing pressure from the local council to move out of the house he had lived in most of his life (first with his granny and later after her death) and into smaller accomodation, as it was needed to house a large family.They claim that this upset him and he felt he was being moved while immigrants were being looked after. I don't know what's  true but being a sceptic about conspiracy theories I need convincing and as much info as possible - no disrespect to those who believe otherwise.
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Post by Guest 07.03.19 12:35

Those are all good points, Phoebe.
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Post by Guest 07.03.19 13:13

I think the man in the police interview is Thomas Mair.
What we see is a short clip and his silence is not an indication of anything and we have no idea what went before, what he was advised (or threatened with) or what he subsequently said.

I don't agree with all the things Richard says in the video and I think he imagines and extrapolates things too much (he always does). His explicit finger pointing at some of the police officials isn't advisable.

However, there is enough about this whole thing that makes me have serious questions.

Very serious questions.
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Post by Phoebe 07.03.19 14:10

Another thing that did interest me very much was the allegation that the police knew that the man they were looking for before they apprehended him. I wouldn't take just the word of the neighbours who allege that the police called out his name when approaching him. I find  their account dodgy, and suspect they were not paying attention before the arrival of a police car, as claimed.. It seems implausible to me that the wife was on such high alert just because a man she didn't recognise walked down the street!!
 However in the T.V. interview, (as Richard points out) when Susannah R. says "And it was Thomas Mair" the other interviewer interjects with "But you didn't know that at the time". I could ignore this as just a clarification for the public. However, the officer then clarifies "WELL, WE THOUGHT IT WAS HIM" before the "missing" segment. That, to me, suggests that they had a suspect in mind before the arrest, and I don't understand why, when this section was edited to cover the blunder, they failed to remove that clanger too! Watching the interview section in full, the timer shows the interview beginning at 7.26. If you count the seconds forward from 7.27 to the "cut" it has only gone forward 24 secs then re emerges at 7.28. So, it does look as though the police wanted to hide the fact that they had Tommy Mair in mind on learning of the attack.
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Post by Guest 07.03.19 14:47

That is one of the serious questions.

How did they know it was Thomas Mair they were supposed to be looking for.
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Post by Phoebe 07.03.19 16:46

@ BlueBag. How indeed!! If I were to suspect a conspiracy surrounding this (and there seems to be something much less than transparency about it) I would be more inclined to look in another direction.
 According to reports Jo Cox had been threatened and harassed for some months before her death and the police were fully aware of this.

According to The Telegraph, June 17th 2016 -

Cox was -
 "..subjected to three months of harassment earlier this year. The abuse became so frequent the police were considering stepping up security at her constituency surgery in Birstall and her houseboat in London. It's important to say that the police have confirmed the man cautioned three months ago for sending malicious communications to Jo Cox is not the same man under arrest in connection with her death".

Another article by News.com.au. June 17th 2016 states - 

"IT HAS emerged British Labour MP Jo Cox was just days away from receiving extra security after being harassed in a stream of threatening messages in the past three months.....Over the past three months Mrs Cox had become the target of a hate mail campaign and was in the process of receiving additional security at her constituency office in Birstall, West Yorkshire as well as at her houseboat in London.
Police had cautioned a man in relation to a barrage of messages sent to Mrs Cox. The politician is said to have “thought little of them” until the “volume and frequency stepped up”.
There is no known link between Mair and the man who allegedly sent the hate mail. West Yorkshire police said a motive for the attack had not yet been established...."


I can't help but wonder whether Thomas Mair was considered a suspect in an investigation into this harassment. That might explain why he was the automatic prime suspect and why the police are so keen to portray the murder as the sudden, unpredictable action of a mentally unwell lone wolf rather than something that could have been prevented.  Just my own take, I stress again.
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Post by willowthewisp 08.03.19 17:08

Phoebe wrote:@ BlueBag. How indeed!! If I were to suspect a conspiracy surrounding this (and there seems to be something much less than transparency about it) I would be more inclined to look in another direction.
 According to reports Jo Cox had been threatened and harassed for some months before her death and the police were fully aware of this.

According to The Telegraph, June 17th 2016 -

Cox was -
 "..subjected to three months of harassment earlier this year. The abuse became so frequent the police were considering stepping up security at her constituency surgery in Birstall and her houseboat in London. It's important to say that the police have confirmed the man cautioned three months ago for sending malicious communications to Jo Cox is not the same man under arrest in connection with her death".

Another article by News.com.au. June 17th 2016 states - 

"IT HAS emerged British Labour MP Jo Cox was just days away from receiving extra security after being harassed in a stream of threatening messages in the past three months.....Over the past three months Mrs Cox had become the target of a hate mail campaign and was in the process of receiving additional security at her constituency office in Birstall, West Yorkshire as well as at her houseboat in London.
Police had cautioned a man in relation to a barrage of messages sent to Mrs Cox. The politician is said to have “thought little of them” until the “volume and frequency stepped up”.
There is no known link between Mair and the man who allegedly sent the hate mail. West Yorkshire police said a motive for the attack had not yet been established...."


I can't help but wonder whether Thomas Mair was considered a suspect in an investigation into this harassment. That might explain why he was the automatic prime suspect and why the police are so keen to portray the murder as the sudden, unpredictable action of a mentally unwell lone wolf rather than something that could have been prevented.  Just my own take, I stress again.
Hi Phoebe,that's a very interesting point of the Police acknowledging a person "Harassing Jo Cox", but failed to apprehend anyone,except Mr Thomas Mair, who did Not turn out to be the original Harassment suspect, so how do you know the Police got the right assailant,when at least One suspect is still at large? 

The original Gun shown by Yorkshire Police was Not like the supposed, "Home Made Gun",that Mr Mair was supposed to have used in the Murder of MP Jo Cox, that Yorkshire Police stated had been used in another Crime 12 Months earlier,did Mr Mair lend this Gun to another person then in that crime,being a loner?
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Post by sar 09.03.19 18:38

willowthewisp wrote:
Phoebe wrote:@ BlueBag. How indeed!! If I were to suspect a conspiracy surrounding this (and there seems to be something much less than transparency about it) I would be more inclined to look in another direction.
 According to reports Jo Cox had been threatened and harassed for some months before her death and the police were fully aware of this.

According to The Telegraph, June 17th 2016 -

Cox was -
 "..subjected to three months of harassment earlier this year. The abuse became so frequent the police were considering stepping up security at her constituency surgery in Birstall and her houseboat in London. It's important to say that the police have confirmed the man cautioned three months ago for sending malicious communications to Jo Cox is not the same man under arrest in connection with her death".

Another article by News.com.au. June 17th 2016 states - 

"IT HAS emerged British Labour MP Jo Cox was just days away from receiving extra security after being harassed in a stream of threatening messages in the past three months.....Over the past three months Mrs Cox had become the target of a hate mail campaign and was in the process of receiving additional security at her constituency office in Birstall, West Yorkshire as well as at her houseboat in London.
Police had cautioned a man in relation to a barrage of messages sent to Mrs Cox. The politician is said to have “thought little of them” until the “volume and frequency stepped up”.
There is no known link between Mair and the man who allegedly sent the hate mail. West Yorkshire police said a motive for the attack had not yet been established...."


I can't help but wonder whether Thomas Mair was considered a suspect in an investigation into this harassment. That might explain why he was the automatic prime suspect and why the police are so keen to portray the murder as the sudden, unpredictable action of a mentally unwell lone wolf rather than something that could have been prevented.  Just my own take, I stress again.
Hi Phoebe,that's a very interesting point of the Police acknowledging a person "Harassing Jo Cox", but failed to apprehend anyone,except Mr Thomas Mair, who did Not turn out to be the original Harassment suspect, so how do you know the Police got the right assailant,when at least One suspect is still at large? 

The original Gun shown by Yorkshire Police was Not like the supposed, "Home Made Gun",that Mr Mair was supposed to have used in the Murder of MP Jo Cox, that Yorkshire Police stated had been used in another Crime 12 Months earlier,did Mr Mair lend this Gun to another person then in that crime,being a loner?
...and just where did he learn to load and fire a sawn-off bolt action rifle?  "3" shots, presumably in rapid succession?

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Post by willowthewisp 09.03.19 19:16

sar wrote:
willowthewisp wrote:
Phoebe wrote:@ BlueBag. How indeed!! If I were to suspect a conspiracy surrounding this (and there seems to be something much less than transparency about it) I would be more inclined to look in another direction.
 According to reports Jo Cox had been threatened and harassed for some months before her death and the police were fully aware of this.

According to The Telegraph, June 17th 2016 -

Cox was -
 "..subjected to three months of harassment earlier this year. The abuse became so frequent the police were considering stepping up security at her constituency surgery in Birstall and her houseboat in London. It's important to say that the police have confirmed the man cautioned three months ago for sending malicious communications to Jo Cox is not the same man under arrest in connection with her death".

Another article by News.com.au. June 17th 2016 states - 

"IT HAS emerged British Labour MP Jo Cox was just days away from receiving extra security after being harassed in a stream of threatening messages in the past three months.....Over the past three months Mrs Cox had become the target of a hate mail campaign and was in the process of receiving additional security at her constituency office in Birstall, West Yorkshire as well as at her houseboat in London.
Police had cautioned a man in relation to a barrage of messages sent to Mrs Cox. The politician is said to have “thought little of them” until the “volume and frequency stepped up”.
There is no known link between Mair and the man who allegedly sent the hate mail. West Yorkshire police said a motive for the attack had not yet been established...."


I can't help but wonder whether Thomas Mair was considered a suspect in an investigation into this harassment. That might explain why he was the automatic prime suspect and why the police are so keen to portray the murder as the sudden, unpredictable action of a mentally unwell lone wolf rather than something that could have been prevented.  Just my own take, I stress again.
Hi Phoebe,that's a very interesting point of the Police acknowledging a person "Harassing Jo Cox", but failed to apprehend anyone,except Mr Thomas Mair, who did Not turn out to be the original Harassment suspect, so how do you know the Police got the right assailant,when at least One suspect is still at large? 

The original Gun shown by Yorkshire Police was Not like the supposed, "Home Made Gun",that Mr Mair was supposed to have used in the Murder of MP Jo Cox, that Yorkshire Police stated had been used in another Crime 12 Months earlier,did Mr Mair lend this Gun to another person then in that crime,being a loner?
...and just where did he learn to load and fire a sawn-off bolt action rifle?  "3" shots, presumably in rapid succession?

Hi Sar, Leonard didn't have a "Goatee" in this film and shot Two people, One being himself, so that Rules Leonard out!

Dianne Abbot is now making some remarks about her becoming the next MP to be Murdered, like Jo Cox was!

Dianne, do the Labour Party its biggest favour,keep out of the "Headlines of Politics",stop embarrassing the Country by regurgitating "Question Time, BBC Bias", if you cannot stand the heat, keep out of the kitchen.

Jeremy has enough on his plate right now, Israel, Race problems,left alone?
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