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Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Phoebe on 28.05.18 10:41

I would be interested to know the name of the little girl who allegedly cut her chin and managed to bleed "like a stuck pig" (but only in one location, i.e . behind the sofa)

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by sandancer on 28.05.18 12:34

@Phoebe wrote:I would be interested to know the name of the little girl who allegedly cut her chin and managed to bleed "like a stuck pig" (but only in one location, i.e . behind the sofa)


www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CLAIRE_FAWKES.htm

Her daughter cut her chin at the Crèche and was taken to a local doctor for stitches as  precaution ! 

No mention of " bleeding like a stuck pig " in 5a ! 

For a " Professor " Mr Horan doesn't seem to care much for getting his facts right !

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by aquila on 28.05.18 12:45

@sandancer wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:I would be interested to know the name of the little girl who allegedly cut her chin and managed to bleed "like a stuck pig" (but only in one location, i.e . behind the sofa)


www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CLAIRE_FAWKES.htm

Her daughter cut her chin at the Crèche and was taken to a local doctor for stitches as  precaution ! 

No mention of " bleeding like a stuck pig " in 5a ! 

For a " Professor " Mr Horan doesn't seem to care much for getting his facts right !
Step away from the bullshit.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by polyenne on 28.05.18 13:09

Boy, there are some rude, disrespectful people on this forum. It’s a wonder more people don’t leave. It quite often appears that, when other people’s views or aspirations for learning don’t quite match the CMOMM “accepted theory” they are treated most unfairly and intolerantly by a small cabal of members.
It’s not nice to read.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by aquila on 28.05.18 13:46

@polyenne wrote:Boy, there are some rude, disrespectful people on this forum. It’s a wonder more people don’t leave. It quite often appears that, when other peop le’s views or aspirations for learning don’t quite match the CMOMM “accepted theory” they are treated most unfairly and intolerantly by a small cabal of members.
It’s not nice to read.
Some people have been on the forum long enough to recognise the wiley ways of a wind up and try very hard to protect the forum's integrity.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by nglfi on 28.05.18 13:53

Yes it seems unlikely the little girl bled at all, if she had stitches put in before she even entered the apartment. That family make it sound so easy - we never left them alone, we took them to the mark Warner baby sitters each night before going to the tapas.....who would've known there was an easier way?!!

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 28.05.18 14:13

@polyenne wrote:Boy, there are some rude, disrespectful people on this forum. It’s a wonder more people don’t leave. It quite often appears that, when other people’s views or aspirations for learning don’t quite match the CMOMM “accepted theory” they are treated most unfairly and intolerantly by a small cabal of members.
It’s not nice to read.
It's not gone unnoticed, in your one years membership here, that you don't miss an opportunity to comment on the forum's administration and it's members conduct.  Indeed, in less than a month after registering you were already robustly criticizing particular members.  At the time - and since, I've wondered why you joined a forum that so clearly runs contra to your ideals.

Whatever, back on topic.  Professor Tom Horan joined this forum he said, to gain knowledge to assist with the production of a planned podcast.  He has been provided with facts and links to documentation, on more than one occasion - not hearsay, supposition and/or theorizing but facts contained in the PJ files.   Despite receiving a warm welcome and shown common courtesy throughout proffered willingly by members, Professor Horan has repeatedly ignored the information provided, opting instead to post contradictory commentary and insult fellow members in the process.

He has been given ample opportunity to benefit from the knowledge of this forum which he has used to turn against us with little or no productive input.  Clearly Professor Horan is not genuine. 

This kind of behaviour is unacceptable and not welcome on CMoMM.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 28.05.18 14:19

@sandancer wrote:
www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CLAIRE_FAWKES.htm

Her daughter cut her chin at the Crèche and was taken to a local doctor for stitches as  precaution ! 

No mention of " bleeding like a stuck pig " in 5a ! 

For a " Professor " Mr Horan doesn't seem to care much for getting his facts right !
The PJ thoroughly investigated the previous occupants of apartment 5a - nothing was identified that could explain the dog alerts to traces of blood and cadavar.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by polyenne on 28.05.18 17:37

Verdi, I joined this forum in the hope that, like most participants here, justice is gained for Madeleine McCann. That’s all. I’ve formed a number of opinions/theories about what I think happened and these are in a constant state of flux primarily because the diligent work put in by members of this forum that make me question my theories.
I realise you/admin are aware of my feelings about rudeness and disrespect (perceived or real) but I will continue to uphold my own values if I feel this is warranted. If you feel this is out of order, you have the power to ban me.

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Verdi on 28.05.18 22:47

@polyenne wrote:If you feel this is out of order, you have the power to ban me.
Yes, I distinctly recall you saying in the past on the open forum that you'd been banned.  That was complete fabrication on your part, as you well know.

I hope you don't intend to repeat your past performance.

Having said that, your recent comment was in response to the general reaction generated by Professor Horan's presence on the forum.  This I hope was satisfactorily explained by my reply.

Now perhaps we can keep this thread on topic thumbsup .

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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 28.05.18 23:53

Just checking in as promised. Aaaaallllll I did was ask if anyone had seen any files from the first 24 hours of the investigation that aren't on this website:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

and to verify that no one claimed (as of the end of the day May 4) to have seen Madeleine in 5A after 6:00pm on May 3. I do NOT care about any other "topics," and if I did, there are hundreds of threads on this website already. 

I keep reassuring you "people" (at least I use my real name) over and over again that I'm NOT trying to change anybody's mind. So aaaaalllll that other typing is just a waste of your time. If it makes you feel better, by all means, type away. I don't take anonymous Internet blah blah blah personally. But I'm not reading it, and I'm not going to respond to ANY of it.

Thank you, Jill, for actually answering the two actual questions I actually asked.  Does ANYONE ELSE want to discuss those first 24 hours? Some people have emailed me instead, and that's fine tom.horan.lu@gmail.com

But I'll keep checking back here occasionally, as well. 

Thanks again!
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 29.05.18 1:44

Ah! Here's what I was looking for: This report contains, among other things, a more detailed report on just what time police were first called, etc, and then summarizes the ensuing search, etc.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

Just to double check--O'Donnell and Wilkins did NOT give statements to Portugese police. Right? Only Leicester police, AFTER they got home. Right? Or did I miss something?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 29.05.18 6:20

Well, the Portugese police were the ones who admitted the blood traces on the wall behind the couch was NOT Madeleine's. Sooooo, it's someone else's. We KNOW that the previous family had a small child who had a cut on her FACE, and we KNOW that FOUR MORE families occupied 5A AFTER the McCanns, and BEFORE the "sniffer dog" performance. The chances that those blood traces are Madeleine's: 0 percent. The chances that it's someone else's blood: 100 percent. Does that "prove" she was still alive the last time she left the apartment? No. Does it "prove" she was dead? Absolutely not. Did the material recovered from the rental car match Madeleine's DNA? No. Does that prove that her dead body was NEVER in that car? No. Does it prove that it WAS in the car? Absolutely not. And all together, all the trace evidence has added up to zero actual results. Zilcho. Blind alley. Dead end. Period. Amaral's hunch is still JUST a hunch. Sooooooooo, back to square one. The first 24 hours. Did Amaral overlook or forget something police noted in those first 24 hours. Yeah. He did. He decided to pursue one of two hypotheses. And ended up with nothing. But he's too vain or stubborn to admit it, and go back to square one. (He's not the only one, you may have noticed.) 

But the funny thing is, if you go back to that moment when he picked left or right, and go the other way, you ... well, the next step is to look at the previous 30 days, 60 days, etc.

In the meantime, does anyone know if it was ever established one way or the other that Gerald McCann did or did not have prior acquaintances in Portugal? David Payne claims HE made all the arrangements for that trip, but that just doesn't seem to fit Gerald's apparent pattern of an obsessive-compulsive control freak. Kate's afraid to breathe without his permission. I can't feature him letting go of the steering wheel EVER. And supposedly, it wasn't even his and Kate's idea to leave the kids alone and "check" on them every so many minutes. It was the Paynes and Oldfields who suggested that. And Gerald went along with it? I mean, that's quite a coincidence--the ONE time Gerald let someone else control a major decision like planning a family vacation and how to mind the kids, and poof! his daughter vanishes into thin air in the most baffling sensational "case" since the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. 

And that is far from the only astounding coincidence that took place that week. So, I'm wondering how many astounding coincidences took place in the 6 months leading up the big event. Know what I mean?

So, did anyone ever establish that Gerald knew someone there? Did he know Clement Freud, or not? Robert Murat? Someone else?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 6:24

@stonesunturned wrote:Just to double check--O'Donnell and Wilkins did NOT give statements to Portugese police. Right? Only Leicester police, AFTER they got home. Right? Or did I miss something?
Are you only interested in the first 24 hours or not?

Anyway, I'm still puzzled with this fixation.

Can you tell us where you have used this approach before and been successful at whatever it is you are trying to achieve?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 6:33

@stonesunturned wrote:Well, the Portugese police were the ones who admitted the blood traces on the wall behind the couch was NOT Madeleine's.

Where are you getting your information?

The samples beneath the floor-tiles could not be ruled out as Madeleine's and had a high probability of being hers.

You also seem to have a willful blind spot for cadaverine.

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to me to be engaged in finding fault with the Portuguese Police investigation and dismissing the dogs evidence.

Have you spoken to the McCanns or any friends/representatives about this podcast you are doing?

You are not impressing me with your (shoddy) methods.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 6:35

@stonesunturned wrote: Did Amaral overlook or forget something police noted in those first 24 hours. Yeah. He did. He decided to pursue one of two hypotheses. And ended up with nothing. But he's too vain or stubborn to admit it, and go back to square one. (He's not the only one, you may have noticed.) 
I think we know where you are heading now.

Have you spoken to Summers and Swann?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Mark Willis on 29.05.18 6:51

Bluebag: "I think we know where you are heading now."
----
He's already arrived and planted his flag.
It's rather like reading a Cristobel blog; starts from nowhere and ends nowhere leaving you with the distinct feeling you've been on a ride you never really wanted to get on.
I am with you, Mr Verdi and Ms Aquila on this. It's a wind up and this "charlatan" should be shown the door. (Given he didn't even know the 5A layout which is embedded in all our collective CMOMM minds as a basic prerequisite).
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 29.05.18 6:55

Blue bag: Well, I don't see a statement in the files by Jeremy or Bridget on May 4. And apparently, none to Portugese police at all, for that matter. Did I overlook something?

To answer your more general questions, I've had 30 years experience as an insurance investigator and private investigator. In particular, reviewing police investigations (literally looking over their shoulders and second guessing every little thing.) Everything from fraud (a lot of fraud, and that means, a LOT of lying) to one of the first "cybercrimes" to homicide. FWIW, the most horrifying crimes are committed for money. 

I, personally, don't do much with crimes against children, but some of the members of our team (the people who put up the money for the studio equipment and fees for the podcast) do. I'm just the host/producer of the show. I'll say it again: I don't even call this a "case." But our listeners have really requested we look into it, and we decided I'd start by reviewing the first 24 hours as usual. And by golly, I did see at least one "unturned stone." Will it lead anywhere? Why would it? There is no "case." It's not a homicide--there's no body. Not even a stain on the carpet (and I'm telling you, the "cadaver dog" razzle dazzle has been drastically overrated.) It's not a kidnapping--no ransom demands. It's not a runaway--she was only four. It's just a report of a missing child. That's it. That, and 11 years of hype, hunches, witch-burning, check-cashing, Oprah-izing, and Internet lynch mobs. But no Madeleine. And no case. 

Now, EVERYONE and their dog (get it?) have aaaaallllready hashed and hashed hashed every scrap of this and that AFTER those first 24 hours. No result. Oh, plenty of hunches and opinions and lynch mobs, but no results. So I don't see much point in ME re-hashing that same brouhaha. It's been done, already. And in my experience, the first 24 hours of an investigation results in a decision about what to do next. And in a LOT of cold cases, that decision turns out to have been erroneous from the start, and in some of those cases, it turns out that something uncovered in those first 24 hours was overlooked and forgotten. Since it looks like no one else has done what I'm doing, then I'm hoping it's worth a shot. And so far, I think it is. So, I'm going to ask some of the other members of our team to look further into certain areas.

For example: According to the evidence and witness statements collected in those first 24 hours, it sure looks like whatever "happened" was very, very well planned, and very well executed. Which, of course, suggests a master control freak. Which, of course, reminds one of Gerald McCann (so far as I can tell.) But--he and David Payne insist Gerald had NOTHING to do with planning that trip...So, my next question is, what happened BEFORE the trip?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 6:58

@Mark Willis wrote:I am with you, Mr Verdi and Ms Aquila on this. It's a wind up and this "charlatan" should be shown the door. (Given he didn't even know the 5A layout which is embedded in all our collective CMOMM minds as a basic prerequisite).
He's a genuine professor and he does write (3 Kindle books on the Zodiac killer) - not a huge audience I would suspect though.

I would really like to know who asked him to do the podcast.

Was it friends or representatives of the McCanns?

Are we in Summers and Swan territory here?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by stonesunturned on 29.05.18 7:02

"Can not be ruled out." Neither can Martians. But that's NOT the same thing as "confirmed to be Madeleine's." If you don't have a match, you don't have a match. Period. And I'll say it one more time--this "trace evidence/sniffer dog" business has led NOWHERE. Maybe Madeleine "died" in 5A. Maybe she died on the beach. NOTHING has been "ruled out." Nothing. But, yes, I noticed something that Amaral either missed, or forgot about. We'll see if it leads anywhere. Who knows? It might. In the meantime, don't lose any sleep over it.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 7:03

@stonesunturned wrote:Blue bag: Well, I don't see a statement in the files by Jeremy or Bridget on May 4. And apparently, none to Portugese police at all, for that matter. Did I overlook something?

To answer your more general questions, I've had 30 years experience as an insurance investigator and private investigator. In particular, reviewing police investigations (literally looking over their shoulders and second guessing every little thing.) Everything from fraud (a lot of fraud, and that means, a LOT of lying) to one of the first "cybercrimes" to homicide. FWIW, the most horrifying crimes are committed for money. 

I, personally, don't do much with crimes against children, but some of the members of our team (the people who put up the money for the studio equipment and fees for the podcast) do. I'm just the host/producer of the show. I'll say it again: I don't even call this a "case." But our listeners have really requested we look into it, and we decided I'd start by reviewing the first 24 hours as usual. And by golly, I did see at least one "unturned stone." Will it lead anywhere? Why would it? There is no "case." It's not a homicide--there's no body. Not even a stain on the carpet (and I'm telling you, the "cadaver dog" razzle dazzle has been drastically overrated.) It's not a kidnapping--no ransom demands. It's not a runaway--she was only four. It's just a report of a missing child. That's it. That, and 11 years of hype, hunches, witch-burning, check-cashing, Oprah-izing, and Internet lynch mobs. But no Madeleine. And no case. 

Now, EVERYONE and their dog (get it?) have aaaaallllready hashed and hashed hashed every scrap of this and that AFTER those first 24 hours. No result. Oh, plenty of hunches and opinions and lynch mobs, but no results. So I don't see much point in ME re-hashing that same brouhaha. It's been done, already. And in my experience, the first 24 hours of an investigation results in a decision about what to do next. And in a LOT of cold cases, that decision turns out to have been erroneous from the start, and in some of those cases, it turns out that something uncovered in those first 24 hours was overlooked and forgotten. Since it looks like no one else has done what I'm doing, then I'm hoping it's worth a shot. And so far, I think it is. So, I'm going to ask some of the other members of our team to look further into certain areas.

For example: According to the evidence and witness statements collected in those first 24 hours, it sure looks like whatever "happened" was very, very well planned, and very well executed. Which, of course, suggests a master control freak. Which, of course, reminds one of Gerald McCann (so far as I can tell.) But--he and David Payne insist Gerald had NOTHING to do with planning that trip...So, my next question is, what happened BEFORE the trip?
It seems you have already concluded that Amaral was incompetent.

You seem to have a problem with the dogs evidence as you misunderstand the blood evidence and you are completely and willfully ignoring the EVRD dog Eddie.

You have to forgive us if some us of think your purpose here is disingenuous.

I will ask again, who asked you to do this podcast?

Was it The McCanns or any of their friends/relatives/representatives?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Mark Willis on 29.05.18 7:05

@BlueBag wrote:
@Mark Willis wrote:I am with you, Mr Verdi and Ms Aquila on this. It's a wind up and this "charlatan" should be shown the door. (Given he didn't even know the 5A layout which is embedded in all our collective CMOMM minds as a basic prerequisite).
He's a genuine professor and he does write (3 Kindle books on the Zodiac killer) - not a huge audience I would suspect though.

I would really like to know who asked him to do the podcast.

Was it friends or representatives of the McCanns?

Are we in Summers and Swan territory here?
I think we are in S&S land. Not somewhere anyone wants to ever go again.
Evidently defensive of the Mcs and derisory towards Goncalo and the EVRD.
Oh well, I suppose we'll bat it back and forth for a few more posts before the inevitable.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 7:06

@stonesunturned wrote:"Can not be ruled out." Neither can Martians. But that's NOT the same thing as "confirmed to be Madeleine's." If you don't have a match, you don't have a match.
Nonsense.

It was not "not a match" - it was a high possibility and in some jurisdictions was good enough for "a match".

Something else you don't seem to understand.
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by BlueBag on 29.05.18 7:12

@stonesunturned wrote: (and I'm telling you, the "cadaver dog" razzle dazzle has been drastically overrated.)

Why is it overrated?
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Re: Professor Horan: Ideas for a podcast about the McCann case

Post by Mark Willis on 29.05.18 7:13

I admire your patience and diligence, Bluebag.
This is going absolutely nowhere, which perhaps, was its purpose, that is: there is no case, no one to hold to account whilst highlighting Portuguese alleged incompetence.
I think he must have passed through Birch-land and Krugel-ville to get to S&S Territory..
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