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Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Mark Willis on 30.04.18 20:50

Hear hear!
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.05.18 0:22

Undoubtedly the 'star' of Sonia Poulton's The McCanns and the Police was retired Met Police Detective Colin Sutton, whom Sonia Poulton referred to in the film as 'distinguished'.

During the film, he was given, I think, seven segments, amounting to several minutes.

I wonder if those of you who have been singing so loudly the praises of this film took notice of the very last exchange between Sonia Poulton and Colin Sutton in the film? (starts at 42 mins 55 secs).

Well, if not...

...here is the transcript of that final exchange:


Sonia Poulton: “Retired detective Colin Sutton is in no doubt about what should happen with the remaining money [in Operation Grange’s budget]”:

Colin Sutton: “The - the starting point has got to be back at Ground Zero…you know, this is when the report was made…”
[an uncanny echo here of DCI Redwood’s comment back on Crimewatch in 2013: “Primarily what we sought to do from the beginning is to try and draw everything back to – to zero, if you like, try and sort of take everything back to the beginning – and then  re-analyse and re-assess everything – accepting nothing”].

Colin Sutton continued: “...These were the last people to see her…This is what they say…These are the people close to her…
"Let’s eliminate those…Let's get them out of the way. And that would serve everybody – you know, you know, that would be in the interests of both, tuh, the general public, but also Kate and Gerry McCann, because, there’s, there’s an awful lot of, tattle, you know, tittle tattle on the internet, and rumours, and, you know, this, this is a case that has aroused so many opinions, and quite strong opinions in some cases, er, if you...
"comprehensively, conclusively, forensically eliminate Kate and Gerry McCann, and their friends from any involvement, then that squashes almost all of that rumour mill…That takes it all away".      [42 mins 55 secs to 43 mins 40 secs].



So is this the 'end game' so far as the 'distinguished' Colin Sutton is concerned? Is this it...

Clear the McCanns for once and for all - get rid of the tittle tattle, rumours and the strong opinions [here read e.g. CMOMM, PeterMac, Richard Hall and Lizzy Taylor]  -  and then SQUASH them - and take them all away?   



.

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Boba Fett on 01.05.18 0:32

I think Colin Sutton was being quite cute and clever there.  He's not daft.  He knows very well that any re-examination of the McCanns' testimony would do anything but eliminate them from the inquiry; rather, that it would instead lead them to a very uncomfortable place.  

I saw it as a shrewd way of putting pressure on Operation Grange to come up with some answers for their £12m efforts.

It seems to me, Tony, that your personal grievances with Sonia Poulton are clouding your judgement of what is a decent documentary.
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.05.18 1:15

@Boba Fett wrote:I think Colin Sutton was being quite cute and clever there.  He's not daft.  He knows very well that any re-examination of the McCanns' testimony would do anything but eliminate them from the inquiry; rather, that it would instead lead them to a very uncomfortable place.  

I saw it as a shrewd way of putting pressure on Operation Grange to come up with some answers for their £12m efforts.

It seems to me, Tony, that your personal grievances with Sonia Poulton are clouding your judgement of what is a decent documentary.

I would agree with you that Colin Sutton is a shrewd man.

From where I sit, though, his shrewdness extends mainly to having forged a post-retirement career in being an amenable 'rent-a-quote' ex-cop who knows how not to rock the boat but at the same time float a tempting quote to  the media to add a little bit of spice and interest to his regular, and lucrative offerings.

Why, the 'distinguished', shrewd man has been at it again even today:

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180430/281706910298072

New inquiry call for 'spy in bag'. Daily Mail - 2018-04-30 - News -. POLICE should re-examine the death of the 'spy in the bag' Gareth Williams, a former Scotland Yard detective said. Colin Sutton, one of the most senior officers involved in the original inquiry, said this was necessary in light of the Salisbury nerve agent attack ...

That's clever. Linking a Soviet spy with some handy nerve agent in his hand to the killing of a man locked into a hold-all while the room was given a deep clean. More easy publicity for Colin.

--------------

But coming back to his pontifications about the Madeleine McCann case, these are some of the things he was saying a year ago:

Former Scotland Yard detective Colin Sutton says the most "most likely and credible scenario" for Maddie's disappearance is a targeted kidnap

The former Met murder detective said a trafficking gang could have been watching the apartment so they were aware of the family's "routine".

As the 10th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance approaches, the top cop analysed what he believes are the five possible ways she could have gone missing.

Sutton said those close to Maddie - her parents and their friends - would be his first port of call as a detective.

But he said Portuguese cops appeared to make this their only line of investigation early on in the probe.

He said: "By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route."

Colin says Maddie may have been stolen by people traffickers ordered to take a young blonde girl

While cops initially believed Maddie could have wandered off and been killed, Sutton believes the tot would surely have taken her beloved toy "Cuddle Cat" if she had walked out of the apartment.

He said: "Incidents of children wandering off are much more common than a targeted or non-targeted abduction.

"However Cuddle Cat is a compelling fly in the ointment with this theory."

He said it was highly unlikely that an opportunist had snatched her, saying that most predatory paedophiles are "not interested in pre-school age children".

He said: "The chances of a predatory paedophile just happening across Madeleine and being able to abduct her without being detected are just so remote.

"I don’t know of any other opportunistic abduction of a girl so young."

And he also believes it is extremely unlikely that she was killed as part of a burglary gone wrong, as most burglars are drug addicts looking for something small they can easily sell.

He said: "Junkies don’t take three-year-old girls."

-------------------------------------- 

On the subject of Sonia Poulton, I tried to tell @Verdi the other day that my objection has always been that she has taken people away from the truth about what happened to Madeleine, but he wouldn't have it, preferring to think that this was a 'feud' of some kind or 'an eye for an eye' revenge. He is prone to these flights of fancy sometimes.

As it happens, I am very sure that this (taking people away from the truth) is the case with The McCanns and the Police. I am preparing an analysis for the forum, examining from start to finish in which direction she is trying to take us.

I am sure that Sonia Poulton has done many good things in her life - but on Madeleine McCann she has yet to convince me that she is a sincere seeker after truth. 


P.S. I had a good laugh at your attempts to say that Brexit could interfere with extraditing the McCanns. Can't you come up with anything more persuasive than that?   

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by plebgate on 01.05.18 7:04

Yes Tony I had a laugh too about the comment re. Brexit could interfere with any extradition.

Comments like that are meant to disrupt this forum and to goad.   Ignore would be my advice.   You and many others have put in too much work for this sort of silliness, but we should expect more since the letter was sent to Portugal by the MMRG.

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Boba Fett on 01.05.18 9:36

@plebgate wrote:Yes Tony I had a laugh too about the comment re. Brexit could interfere with any extradition.

Comments like that are meant to disrupt this forum and to goad.   Ignore would be my advice.   You and many others have put in too much work for this sort of silliness, but we should expect more since the letter was sent to Portugal by the MMRG.

Laugh it up, fuzzball, but why not play the ball not the man?  If you found my post laughable, I would like to see your response on the thread so that I can tear it down.

What's really laughable is TB's attempt to discredit Colin Sutton above - nothing he has quoted there is out of the ordinary.  Still, you have to admire the effort, I suppose.  What's the phrase?  God loves a trier.

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Boba Fett, you're starting to get on my nerves.

Reign it in, or find somewhere else. This is not twitter or facebook.

Last warning.[/adm]
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Boba Fett on 01.05.18 10:20

Aaaaaanyway, back on topic - great documentary, Sonia, if you're reading.  Keep it up!
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by sallypelt on 01.05.18 10:24

@Boba Fett wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Yes Tony I had a laugh too about the comment re. Brexit could interfere with any extradition.

Comments like that are meant to disrupt this forum and to goad.   Ignore would be my advice.   You and many others have put in too much work for this sort of silliness, but we should expect more since the letter was sent to Portugal by the MMRG.

Laugh it up, fuzzball, but why not play the ball not the man?  If you found my post laughable, I would like to see your response on the thread so that I can tear it down.

What's really laughable is TB's attempt to discredit Colin Sutton above - nothing he has quoted there is out of the ordinary.  Still, you have to admire the effort, I suppose.  What's the phrase?  God loves a trier.
"laugh it up fuzzball, but why not play the ball not the man?"

You couldn't make it up, could you?  Hypocrisy comes to mind?

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Boba Fett on 01.05.18 10:38

Boba Fett is leaving voluntarily, so don't worry, "Admin".
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Jill Havern on 01.05.18 10:39

Thank you.
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by sar on 01.05.18 10:48


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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Jill Havern on 01.05.18 11:01

big grin
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Phoebe on 01.05.18 11:30

Tony, above, has reproduced certain statements attributed to Colin Sutton. How many of these have we actually witnessed him utter and how many are "quotes" from newspapers and other media sources.
 I don't believe a word from MSM sources. Remember, last year Rhani Sadler was shown walking beside Goncalo Amaral while "interviewing" him - something he denies actually happened! The press and the BBC made false claims about the Smiths recanting their belief that it was Gerry they saw that night. I seem to remember Sutton expressing annoyance last year over clever editing which he claimed had altered the context of what he actually said in the Sky report for the 10th anniversary.Pat Brown was similarly annoyed over comments attributed to her.
 Newspaper "quotes" can often be as misleading as endorsements on a book sleeve - a selection of words actually used but taken out of context to impart a different meaning from the whole utterance.
 I have no problem with C.S. stating that the best method for the T9 to clear themselves of suspicion is to participate in a reconstruction. The Portuguese authorities themselves have said something very similar, noting that in refusing to cooperate  the McCanns lost the opportunity to clear themselves. 
For me, the first an most important message to get across to a misinformed, ofttimes gullible public is that there is absolutely NOTHING to support the abduction claim and that the T9's stories do not add up. That must be the starting point for a genuine investigation.
 Grange must be unbiased, starting from a NEUTRAL position. It should not operate under the assumption that the McCanns are innocent of involvement in Madeleine's disappearance (as it has done thus far) but equally, as a normal, impartial investigation it also should not begin with the assumption that they are guilty. The guilt or innocence of any parties should be established (for a future trial) by the work of the investigation itself, not by a predetermined belief. Sutton, as a former policeman knows this. To investigate from the perspective that the T9, alone, are suspects would inevitably place in legal jeopardy any conclusions the investigation might arrive at. It is contradictory to insist that Grange should investigate properly, in the normal manner, then complain when commentators, like Sutton, suggest this course of action.

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Verity on 01.05.18 12:07

Operation Grange was set up in May 2011 with a remit to 'investigate the abduction as though it happened in the UK'.
Colin Sutton is suggesting that it goes back to ground zero, presumably dismissing the last 7 years and £13million already spent, and even the dogs as they are never mentioned, to eliminate the parents and squash rumourmill - so what is the point because how can that happen without the government admitting they were wrong in the first place with their 'very narrow and pointless remit', which leaves them open to Misconduct in Public Office especially in light of the PJ conclusions in 2007 who, after all, have the jurisdiction anyway?
What a mess and what a can of worms Colin's suggestion would create. How would the government even allow it?
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Verdi on 01.05.18 12:19

Colin Sutton speaks as his belly guides him.

Much like the other mouthpiece, Mark Williams-Thompson, he opens mouth before engaging brain.

Sutton is accredited to making a number of off-the-cuff comments about the case of Madeleine McCann, which have been harvested by the interested observer and put together to form a comprehensive dossier of quotes - mostly contradictory.

Take what he says on any one occassion with a pinch of salt.  Apart from anything else, he was not is not nor will ever be, assigned to investigating the case of missing Madeleine McCann so his comments are but throw away one offs.

Just how many retired cops have we now commenting on the case?  If they really want to make a difference, then use time constructively - that excludes squatting down on Lorraine Kelly's comfy sofa for an informal chat.  Take note Ms Poulton!

Bums on seats!

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Verdi on 01.05.18 12:25

Operation Grange Remit

The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.

The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’. This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.


The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);

• The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies.
• UK Law Enforcement agencies,
• Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.

The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.

It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.

The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.

The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.

End

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Verdi on 01.05.18 15:18

For those interested in the evolution of Sonia Poulton's latest film.  This is for reference..

Part one, the McCanns and the police
 
26th April 2018

In October 2014, an innocent woman was deemed to have committed suicide after she was hounded by mainstream media.

Her crime? She questioned the official narrative of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

So, having had my own experiences of what happens when you question Madeleine's disappearance, I went on a journey to make a documentary that looked at a different narrative about the missing child. Some of it is contained in a production diary on this site.

The production diary only goes up to 2016 when we realised the strength of opposition to us making such a documentary.
 
I intend, at some stage, to make a film about that. It's a story by itself.

So, we set out to make a made-for-TV documentary and we still have that. It is an overview of the case including the various anomalies.
However, there are a number of legal issues that have, so far, proved unsurpassable for TV broadcasters to commit to it.

But what we have collected over the last four years is way beyond a 54-minute TV documentary.

Anyone who knows about Madeleine McCann - and what has happened since she was reported missing in 2007 -  will also know that this is a fascinating story that is about so much more than a missing child, as truly sad as that is.

I would love to be able to explore Madeleine's story on Patreon (link: https://www.patreon.com/soniapoulton) but that requires your support, too.
I have been financially penalised for pursuing this story. Example? OK. Here’s a not-so fun fact.

In the year leading up to the making of our film, I appeared on national media, TV and radio, fifty-odd times. That’s over once a week.  Certainly enough to have something of a mainstream media profile. Not on par with a Kim Kardashian or a Holly Willoughby, I will grant you that, but enough to have something to lose.

And I did.

In the year that followed the beginning of our film, I appeared approximately NO TIMES on TV.

I was soiled goods.

I had dared to do what you weren’t supposed to do as a mainstream media journalist.

I had said: I question the official version of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

That was it.

I asked questions. I made no accusations. No deliberations. I’m not a judge.

I just said, and repeatedly, I feel that something is not quite right about this story and I have to question it.

I was told not to.

By TV producers, by radio researchers and by newspaper commissioning editors.

They were quite explicit.

In fact, to quote one industry stalwart ‘that is the one story that you don’t cover’.

Which, for some bizarre reason, translated to me as ‘that’s the one story you must cover’.

And so I did. Or have attempted to. And sometimes that has worked and other times I have been blocked. Either by internet thugs or Government protocol.

Perhaps they are linked. Who knows? It’s a crazy story. One that requires much contemplation.

And so, with the numerous obstacles attached to pursuing this story, I decided to approach it in a different way and that is by launching a Patreon which enables creators to cut to the chase and get straight to interested parties - without the censorious one in the middle.

So, out of the myriad of topics I could choose to launch with regarding Madeleine's story, I've decided to start with a look at the McCanns relationship with police since the start of the investigation in 2007.

Currently, we are approaching the 11th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance and a £12million-plus police investigation has just been given even more funds. This story is as relevant as it ever was.

This film is Part 1. Part 2 will follow on the conclusion of investigations in Portugal and London.

There is material that simply cannot be used while live police investigations are in progress.

So that's it. I hope you enjoy this first film, it's intended to set a foundation in which to build upon and is the start of an exciting, and nerve-wracking, journey.  I'm excited by this and see great potential. It's time to get this wagon moving.

http://www.theuntoldstoryofmadeleinemccann.com/

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Jill Havern on 01.05.18 15:34

Sounds good. But it's a pity this film wasn't made 4 years ago after her teaser trailer.

Since then Richard D. Hall and PeterMac's exciting and nerve-wracking journey got on the road and their wagon has already rolled right into the Portuguese Attorney-General's office.
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by willowthewisp on 01.05.18 15:41

Hi Verdi, in regard to Mr Colin Sutton and Sonia Poulton's documentary,perhaps that is the"Hidden agenda" to have all once named Arquido's  or close friends completely exonerated once and for all from any involvement in Madeleine McCann's disappearance?

What"Evidence" produced or found,be it the Martin Grime's Crime Dogs,Eddie,Keela,DNA/LCI swabs of material, have mysteriously become transformed from verbal positive results to re-written FSS reports becoming unconclusive!?
What Police Forces alluded to be about to destroy on"Health Grounds,DNA/LCI" results on a still missing person belonging to Madeleine McCann,was this part of any difficult questions of future identity,can neither confirm or deny due to insufficient evidence available?
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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Verdi on 01.05.18 16:00

@Jill Havern wrote:Sounds good. But it's a pity this film wasn't made 4 years ago after her teaser trailer.

Since then Richard D. Hall and PeterMac's exciting and nerve-wracking journey got on the road and their wagon has already rolled right into the Portuguese Attorney-General's office.
This is where it get's so confusing. 

OK, I accept that mainstream media might be reluctant to get involved with such a problematic project (although I wonder why considering their appetite over the years for anything McCann related - good or bad) but why the continued delay, because that's what this is.  The film is nothing but a filler to appease the hungry wolves, indeed the journey thus far has been dropping morsels of juicy steak to tempt the hungry prey.

As I think many said at the time the project was first announced way back in October (that month again) 2014 - publish and be damned.  Ms Poulton has said all along that such a venture will most likely wreck her career, a bold move in anyone's book, so why didn't she stick the whole documentary on YouTube in the first place?

Not only would it have been viewed in the thousands+ but could also have attracted a willing sponsor.  It doesn't necessarily need to be shown on UK national television - any old outlet would suffice, just as long as it gets the message out there.

I believe this to be the reason Ms Poulton has been subjected to so much criticism.  Now part 2 will not be available until after the conclusion of the British (?) and Portuguese investigations.  You guess is as good as mine when that might be.

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Verdi on 01.05.18 16:09

@willowthewisp wrote:Hi Verdi, in regard to Mr Colin Sutton and Sonia Poulton's documentary,perhaps that is the"Hidden agenda" to have all once named Arquido's  or close friends completely exonerated once and for all from any involvement in Madeleine McCann's disappearance?
I think the establishment covered that way back in the summer of 2007, when they allowed Tanner's bogeyman to spread wings and take to the skies.  At least until Redwood's revolution revelation moment in October (that month again) 2013, when he managed to conveniently dispose of Mr Tannerman by introducing a new kid on the block - a yet to be disclosed tourist carrying his semi-naked child around the streets of Praia da Luz at the same time Madeleine allegedly mysteriously disappeared.

Funny that innit?

Then came Mr Smithman ......

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by kaz on 01.05.18 16:18

@Jill Havern wrote:Sounds good. But it's a pity this film wasn't made 4 years ago after her teaser trailer.

Since then Richard D. Hall and PeterMac's exciting and nerve-wracking journey got on the road and their wagon has already rolled right into the Portuguese Attorney-General's office.
Exactly and since Sonia has brought nothing new to the table why bother? As an 'investigative journalist' surely she was being naïve to think that she could have her cake and eat it ?  Did she really believe that investigating a story like this which appears to have the sticky fingers of the powerful ones all over it would give her free access to the very medium that appears to be suppressing it?  Very naïve. Sonia has to make her mind up. She simply cannot be a star of the media if she is serious about this investigation. That stardom is reserved for those who toe the line.
I cannot for the life of me see why the mainstream media hasn't accepted this documentary. It's only a regurgitation of already known and readily available facts . Hardly groundbreaking stuff. I still can't get the 'doorstepping' of Kate McCann out of my head. THAT had to be 'by arrangement' surely. Why wasn't Ms Poulton warned of possible harassment charges then?

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Re: Sonia Poulton: The McCanns and the Police

Post by Jill Havern on 01.05.18 17:22

@kaz wrote:
@Jill Havern wrote:Sounds good. But it's a pity this film wasn't made 4 years ago after her teaser trailer.

Since then Richard D. Hall and PeterMac's exciting and nerve-wracking journey got on the road and their wagon has already rolled right into the Portuguese Attorney-General's office.
Exactly and since Sonia has brought nothing new to the table why bother? As an 'investigative journalist' surely she was being naïve to think that she could have her cake and eat it ?  Did she really believe that investigating a story like this which appears to have the sticky fingers of the powerful ones all over it would give her free access to the very medium that appears to be suppressing it?  Very naïve. Sonia has to make her mind up. She simply cannot be a star of the media if she is serious about this investigation. That stardom is reserved for those who toe the line.
I cannot for the life of me see why the mainstream media hasn't accepted this documentary. It's only a regurgitation of already known and readily available facts . Hardly groundbreaking stuff. I still can't get the 'doorstepping' of Kate McCann out of my head. THAT had to be 'by arrangement' surely. Why wasn't Ms Poulton warned of possible harassment charges then?
Sonia was always worried about the legal implications of her film, yet there was nothing in it that couldn't have been published 4 years ago. As you say it was all in the public domain anyway. Eddie and Keela are already in the public domain too - I believe it was the Sun that first introduced the film with the headline 'Barking Mad', so still don't know why the dogs weren't included. That was a huge omission that is integral for debunking the abduction myth. She approached Chris Grayling in the street and asked him if he believed Madeleine was abducted and he said 'yes'. An excellent opportunity to expose a Conservative MP as ignorant of the facts in this case, that his own party is funding to the tune of millions of pounds, by asking him about the dogs and then show a clip of the dogs at work in her film, taking the film up to a full hour. Hardly Carter-Ruckable.

And to be fair, everything that was in Richard's film or Peter's e-book was already in the public domain - and Carter-Ruck has been nowhere in sight.

We said years ago that Sonia should make the film and put it on youtube, and that's exactly where it is now. The best place for it since it can be seen all around the world.

I believe there is a place for anything in this case and I believe Sonia's film has a worthy place on youtube - I thought it was professionally made and she has an excellent narrating voice. She is well known on TV and radio and she will have many contacts in the MSM and they will get to see her film and may well dig deeper and find Richard's films, Peter's e-book and Lizzy's videos. And if they don't then at least they will still come away questioning the amount of government officials who have been protecting the McCanns whilst spending millions of pounds of taxpayers money. And that was surely the point of it.

I give her 8 out of 10 and I hope we don't have to wait another four years for her to fill in the much-needed gaps with Part 2.

I agree that the doorstepping of Kate McCann, with the carefully placed yellow and green campaign ribbons, was by arrangement.
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Jill Havern


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