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Toddler in car that rolled into river

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Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by polyenne on 22.03.18 13:55

Police will speak to the heartbroken mum of a two-year-old girl who died when her car rolled into river. Kim Rowlands left little Kiara Moore strapped in her mini on a riverside slipway while she popped into her boyfriend’s office in Cardigan, West Wales. Police are investigating the tragedy and could question the 25-year-old as to whether she put Kiara "at risk" by leaving her alone in a car on a steep slope.
You all know where I'm going with this.

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Jill Havern on 22.03.18 14:07

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Jill Havern on 22.03.18 14:12

There doesn't seem to have been any barriers at the bottom of the slope.

I wonder if Kiara's mum forgot to put the handbrake on?

Not sure why you've posted this thread in the Crimewatch Reconstruction section polyenne. I'll move it.
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by polyenne on 22.03.18 14:18

Whoops, sorry !

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by MrsC on 22.03.18 16:07

The McCann case has turned me into a terrible cynic.

Am I the only one when first reading about this current tragedy thought 'Hmmmmmmm '?

I'm not keen on this side of myself. Sad

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Ladyinred on 22.03.18 16:27

@MrsC, I thought the same as you initially, especially after being shown FB messages written by the father on the day of the child's death, which I felt were inappropriate.  It seems to be an act of gross stupidity and irresponsibility by the mother, and probably not the first time that the child had been left alone in a car on the slipway.  Tragic.
NSPCC guidelines say that babies, toddlers and young children should not be left alone.
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Jill Havern on 22.03.18 16:29

What did the father say?
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Ladyinred on 22.03.18 16:50

I don't do FB (a colleague showed me as she thought his postings were odd, written on the day of the death of his daughter) but the messages were light in tone, and in no way reflected the sudden and shocking death of a young child.  Colleague thought he was dodgy.
Could anyone here kindly post them?
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Jill Havern on 22.03.18 17:12

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Jill Havern on 22.03.18 17:21

I can't believe that some people have gone on to Kiara's dad's facebook page to post comments about Madeleine McCann.
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by polyenne on 22.03.18 17:24

The scourge of social media is killing the art of conversation, correct grammar, respect for others, general decorum and the ability of many to mind their own damn business.

The rise of the keyboard warrior

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Ladyinred on 22.03.18 17:28

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Thanks, Jill.  Forgot to say that I read the father's messages on Tuesday morning.
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by sharonl on 22.03.18 19:10

How long was the mother in the office?

How long does it take for a car to slip into the river and disappear out of sight? 

If the mother had just ran in to the office, picked up the cash and came straight back out, wouldn't she have at least seen the car moving towards the river?

If she thought that car was stolen, did she leave the keys in the car? If not, was the child left alone in the car for at least the length of time that it would take a car thief to brake in and get the car started?

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.03.18 23:01

@sharonl wrote:How long was the mother in the office?

How long does it take for a car to slip into the river and disappear out of sight? 

If the mother had just ran in to the office, picked up the cash and came straight back out, wouldn't she have at least seen the car moving towards the river?

If she thought that car was stolen, did she leave the keys in the car? If not, was the child left alone in the car for at least the length of time that it would take a car thief to brake in and get the car started?
Very good questions indeed, sharonl

Many people are openly saying this is a FAKE drowning i.e. a FAKE accident...

... and that the child may already have been dead before the fake accident was perpetrated.

Statement Analysts Peter Hyatt and our very own 'Hobs' are already very much 'on the case', along with dozens of others.

The messages and actions of the parents are all wrong.

I personally think we will know the probable ugly truth about this case sooner than we think...

 https://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/drowning-death-of-kiara-moore.html 

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by polyenne on 23.03.18 7:30

I note my newspaper is silent on this event today. I wonder if the police have asked for a period of no reporting while they investigate further.

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by hentie on 23.03.18 8:10

My first thoughts were, seeing it reported on television, oh no, poor child!
Reading about it, oh no, not another one!
Who would park a new car on a slope facing water let alone leave a child in it on their own?
From the video showing the area, there appears to be other places that are safe to park.
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by JimbobJones on 23.03.18 9:46

Initial media reports were that the car had been stolen and driven into the river. They lasted all day even after the car had been recovered. Standing looking at the scene after the car had disappeared the ugly truth should have jumped straight out to anybody . . . . if it really had been parked on a slipway facing a river with a toddler strapped inside it.
Was the car found by specialised police divers or just usual policemen? If the latter how come the parent did not see the car in the river?
I saw some alleged comments written by the mother with totally inappropriate exclamation marks that seemed very strange, almost gleeful and pleased with themselves. You could give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are just illiterate. The case is certainly strange.

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.03.18 10:31

By now, the Coroner will have been informed and...

...already a Post-Mortem will have been performed.

The Coroner/Police will probably not release all, or even any, of the Post-Mortem results.

If there is doubt about the cause of death, another Post-Mortem, performed by another Pathologist, might be under way, or have been carried out already.

The Post-Mortem results will be crucial in three respects:

1. Are there typical signs associated with drowning?

2. Are there any signs of injury or attack wounds?

3. (crucial) What was the likely time of death?     

If, as I suspect, the car had been in the lake longer than we have been led to believe, the Pathologist(s) may be able to determine the date of death with some degree of accuracy.

As for whether the toddler drowned, I recall the Post-Mortem evidence in the Stuart Lubbock case.

The original Home Office-approved Pathologist, the now-disgraced Dr Michael John Heath, said Stuart was drowned.

But later Pathologists found 'petechiae' all around Stuart's neck and head - tiny pin-head spots of blood that are typical signs of asphyxia, NOT drowning.

I shall be very surprised if in the next 48 hours both parents are not charged with a number of offences in relation to the toddler's death.    

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by JimbobJones on 23.03.18 10:47

Are they real people? Is there anybody on this board from Wales who might have known of them prior to this incident? Is this just another GCHQ mind game?

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Phoebe on 23.03.18 12:03

I feel awful saying this  but something about this tragic death does not sit right with me. The father claims that the mother "sat on a credit card and snapped it" necessitating her going into the office to get cash. I cannot, for the life of me, fathom how sitting on a plastic card could snap it. Then there is the time -span for the sinking. The mother must have been inside for quite some time in order for the car to have entered the river and sunk without trace. Next there is the "stolen" car explanation. Would someone not have heard the engine start up and the car move away. The shed is just that, not  sound-proof building. Finally the Facebook posts from the father are decidedly odd, given the tragic situation. I do hope my suspicions are proven unfounded but can't shake them at the moment!

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by JimbobJones on 23.03.18 14:13

How long before the parents set up a fund for donating MONEY?

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Ladyinred on 23.03.18 14:27

Father has set up a fund for the Wales Air Ambulance service, which assisted in the search and recovery.  £1,000 raised so far.  He's also going to set up a Trust "to help people who are sad".  Funeral to be held 27th March, Kiara's birthday.

More info can be found on Walesonline, if a member would kindly post the article.
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Jill Havern on 23.03.18 14:53




The news article is here ladyinred: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/river-death-toddler-kiara-moores-14448139

snipped:

Speaking about the wake, Jet wrote: “Please please bring the kids there will be fun for them there too with maybe bouncy castle and food.”
Meanwhile the family have also revealed plans to set up a trust in their daughter’s name to support metal health sufferers.
As a result they have asked for donations rather than flowers at her funeral.

i don\'t know   How odd that they want to set up a trust to support mental health sufferers. What's that got to do with Kaira drowning in the river?
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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by polyenne on 23.03.18 14:56

I'm not sure one would be planning all this so soon and seemingly quite upbeat. Are they trying to appear convincing ? Or is it just me ?

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Re: Toddler in car that rolled into river

Post by Ladyinred on 23.03.18 15:27

Convincing about what?
The father doesn't sound devastated, sad, or that he is grieving the loss of his child. Maybe the bond between them wasn't strong.
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