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Possible Timeline ? Discuss

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Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 12.03.18 10:47

Robert Murat & Gerry McCann “know” each other is some way prior to the PdL holiday 

Saturday 28 April

McCanns arrive mid afternoon...go to the tapas at 5pm for information about the Ocean Club and details about its amenities. They leave the apartment and go to the Millennium restaurant with all the other couples and their children, eat their meal and go back to the apartment...ready for the start of their holiday.

Sunday 29 April


The cleaners daughter sees all the McCann family outside the apartment at around 1.15pm, Madeleine holding bread and possibly heading up to the Payne's apartment for lunch (the only day the do so).
They go to the pool around lunchtime as it’s a lovely sunny day with temperatures around 23c and this is likely where the 'last photo' was taken.
They dine at the Tapas restaurant that night.
 

Late Sunday or early Monday  -  something tragic befalls Madeleine by the window where the blood splatters were found  and they know it will be fatal

Monday 30 April


The abduction plan is hatched during the day/evening. All the T9 are vague as to their movements on this day. Neither of the McCann’s mobiles trigger the Luz antenna.
They all go to the Millennium for breakfast but the McCanns decide that it is difficult walking with the twins and for this day forward they breakfast in 5A.
Creche records show that Madeleine is taken out of the creche after a few minutes and the twins shortly after.
Something may have happened with the shutters on this day (NOT Sunday) as the maintenance men are asked to fix them (they came on Tuesday). Curiously Matthew also claims to have had a problem with his shutters (they were in the apartment next door). As a trial, did they try to jemmy Matthew’s shutters first ?

Tuesday 01 May
Gerry’s mobile is not used at all this day but Kate makes/takes a number of calls between 10.16 and 20.35 but deletes them all from the handsets memory
Murat flies out to Portugal having bought a ticket very early that same day. He is required to become an interpreter, “infiltrate” the investigation and thus better able to understand the direction the PJ are taking in order that “covering steps can be taken” and the “media controlled”. Unbeknown to him, as the investigation progresses, he will become a patsy.
The McCanns have breakfast in their apartment with food bought from the Baptiste store. They will do this each morning.  
Gerry first uses the shortcut ”between the buildings” (as shown to him by Russell) to collect Madeleine.
According to tennis records and Georgina the tennis coach, this was the morning that Madeleine had MINI TENNIS. The mini tennis was discussed by Kate, Jane and Rachael and became very confusing as Rachael claims it was Thursday and Jane claims it was Wednesday. MINI TENNIS was between 10am and 11am (records show 10.30-11). Kate claims to have run back to the apartment to get her camera to take a pic... Rachael claims it was Jane who took the tennis balls Pic and Russell claims it was not Jane.
NOTE : According to OC repair man, between 10-11am, 2 of them go to 5A to repair shutters in child’s room and to show Kate McCann how to use washing machine – she is there alone.

At lunchtime Gerry walks with Jez Wilkins to the creche to pick up Madeleine.  Gerry makes a point of telling Jez that they leave the children alone.
After lunch Gerry & Kate walk to the beach allegedly with Madeleine and the twins.  It was a chilly day and the twins don’t want to go in the water so they buy 5 ice creams (to seemingly confirm there are 5 of them ?) and they watch a guitarist at the restaurant, “over-describing” him.
They return to place ”Madeleine” in the creche at 2.50pm.  Gerry buys sunglasses from a street vendor on the way back (is this because the last picture has been taken on the Sunday so by saying he doesn’t have sunglasses lends credibility to it having been taken after Tuesday ?)
They all go to the Tapas except Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien who stay in their apartment because their youngest daughter is sick. Is David Payne absent too ?
According to the qirl who runs the quiz from about 9pm (and then joins the table until approx 9.50pm) NO-ONE leaves the table and she apparently does not see Kate during that time and also does not remember seeing David Payne.
Between 22.16 & 22.27pm Kate receives a 'flurry' of 6 calls, possibly at the apartment.
 

I believe it is around this time that Madeleine dies

 

Mrs Fenn, in the apartment above, claims to hear crying getting increasingly stronger with what sounds like 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy' and which goes on from 22.30 until 23.45. Is the crying Mrs Fenn hears actually Kate and the words are “Maddie, Maddie, Maddie” not “Daddy, Daddy, Daddy”. And why the McCanns are so keen to state that they never call her Maddie ??
Mrs Fenn hears patio doors close and the crying stops. Is this when Gerry (and others ?) return using the patio doors to enter ?
Kate sleeps in the children’s room (though she tells the PJ it was Wednesday night). Was something happening with Madeleine’s lifeless body in the apartment that Kate could not bear to witness and/or she needed to be with the twins ?
 

IMPORTANT NOTE : the mobile phones of both Robert Murat and Gerry McCann are switched off from approximately 3pm this day until late evening on Wednesday 02 May.  


Wednesday 02 May


Little or no mention of this day in Gerry’s statement of 10 May 2007
Very early, around 7am, Kate has 3 calls (deleted) to her friend in England, Amanda (who is married to a pathologist). Shortly after at around 8am, Gerry starts receiving the first of 14 text messages.
The calls that day also include the “strange” Swansea number…..the only number that Kate never deleted. Hmmm ! 
Jane & Kate have a tennis lesson at 09.00.
Jane then says at 10.10 she & Kate watch the Ella & Madeleine play tennis in a group.
At some point during Wednesday morning the cleaner is let into apartment 5A and the McCanns leave via the balcony door. The cleaner makes the beds and notices a cot in the McCann’s bedroom. Gerry and Kate both deny the cot is there. There are a number of references to Kate sleeping in the kids bedroom or Madeleine sleeping in the parents room, possibly to disguise which beds have been slept in and which have not ? Or did Kate sleep in the parents room on Tuesday night together with the twins in the cot rather than the children’s room ?
In the evening Jez Wilkins is at the Tapas when Gerry arrives with Russell and is told that Kate is putting the children to bed.
Where is Jane, with Kate? Are they together someplace ? Do they EVER go to the Tapas ?
The group stays at the Tapas until late that night. The waiters want to leave at midnight but the group stays until approx 1am. Is there something important to discuss/plan or do they need an alibi as something else is happening ?
According to Kate and Gerry, they leave just before 11pm...Gerry leaves first and when she arrives back at the apartment, Gerry is in bed. He claims Kate spends a few moments in bed and because of his snoring goes to sleep in Madeleine and twins room.
Robert Murat “remembers” he has a number of meetings that day including with Sergei Malinka in the morning at his mother’s house and a lengthy one in a café with his lawyer in the afternoon. 
 

I believe this is the day that Madeleine’s body, in the blue bag, is placed in the refrigerator of apartment 5J having discussed with knowledgeable people the best way to immediately deal with a dead body   
 

Thursday 03 May

I believe it is this day that the body, in the bluebag, is brought down from 5J and placed in the shrubbery outside 5A whilst the transport vehicle is bought to the side gate. It is then taken to a “safe house”.  
 

The McCanns tell us they drop off the Twins at the Tapas creche and Gerry takes “Madeleine” to the Kids club creche at the reception while Kate plays her tennis game at 9.15am (his follows at 11.15am)
Rachel claims she sits with Kate by the pool awaiting Madeleine's mini tennis and when the children arrive (around 10.30am) claims Jane was there and takes the photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls. Kate signs “Madeleine” out at 12.25. Kate says in her statement that she goes back to the apartment first and prepares lunch for the children. Gerry says that it is HE who picks up “Madeleine” and he remembers that because he takes the short cut. Kate says she goes back to the Tapas creche to see if Gerry has picked up the twins...neither of them appear to know and Catriona the nanny doesn’t recall WHO picks up and drops off “Madeleine” on Thursday.
This is very interesting as the police timeline diagrams claim that although Kate and Gerry claim the twins are in the creche....there are NO creche records for them....Thursday morning diagrams do not show the twins were at the creche...
Robert Murat says he & Michaela are at a meeting in the morning, visit 2 apartments in the afternoon and then go to the Palmares Golf Club.
The McCanns claim they take the twins back to the creche at 14.40 (approx) and drop Madeleine off at her creche at 14.50.
Kate goes for a jog and passes the T7 who are down on the beach at the Paraiso.
Gerry claims to be at high tea while the children are there and Kate arrives after her jog at approx 17.30. Kate consistently claims that “Madeleine” is very tired and that she asks her mother to carry her home. The children are signed out at 17.30.
Kate then carries her back to the apartment but Gerry claims they go to the patio doors and he lets them in through the back.  If, indeed, Kate has been carrying “Madeleine”, how does she manage the twins on her own, climbing the steep steps at the rear of the apartment ?
Kate claims she goes back to the apartment and takes a shower AND a bath ? She claims she’s in a towel when David Payne stops by to pass a message on to her from Gerry ( about 18.30) asking if she needs help to take the children to the recreation area. Kate claims he’s there for about 30 seconds. David Payne describes the children at length. Mrs Fenn (according to an interview with Goncalo Amaral) sees David Payne on the balcony about 19.00.
Gerry had gone to tennis at 18.00, the others arriving a while later from the Paraiso restaurant.
David Payne is back at his apartment at 19.10. The police ask Fiona and they finally get her to agree that she has no idea where David Payne was between 18.00 and 19.00.
Fiona goes out jogging while the children are bathed and just before it’s time to go to the Tapas, which makes them a little late.
20.30 – Gerry, Kate & Jane to Tapas
20.45 - Matthew & Rachael to Tapas
20.55 – David, Fiona & Dianne to Tapas
21.00 - Russell to Tapas
21.00 - food orders placed
21.00 - Matthew leaves Tapas to check 
21.05 - Gerry & Russell (?) leave the Tapas to check respective rooms. Gerry meets Jez on way back
21.10 - Jane leaves table and on way back to her apartment sees Gerry talking to Jez
21.15 - Jane sees Tannerman
21.30 - Matthew & Russell leave to check respective apartments. Matthew also checks 5A
21.45 - Jane leaves to take over from Russell
21.55 - Russell returns to finish his meal
21.55 - Smith sighting
22.00 - Kate leaves Tapas to make check and raises alarm
 

Note : timings have been taken from the various T9 statements and are therefore approximate   
 

Friday 04 May

Kate & Gerry go out early at 6am.

11.15 -  Gerry 1st PJ interview

14.20 – Kate 1st PJ interview

 

The blue bag is photographed by the PJ in the parents wardrobe but then disappears. Later, the dogs will signal at that wardrobe. Was the blue bag removed/disposed of because it had an odour ?    

 

Saturday 12 May – Madeleines 4th birthday

Murat hires a car “in a hurry” and using his ex-wife’s UK address. Is this used to finally dispose of Madeleine’s body ?

 

Sunday 13 May

Discussion on setting up the “Fighting Fund” – do they now know Madeleine will never be found ?

 

Monday 14 May

Murat house searched as well as other addresses associated with him.
Kate and Gerry answer questions from the media for the first time. Gerry says he is now being helped by two British lawyers from the Family Law Centre on how best to use money pledged to help find Madeleine and give assistance in Portuguese legal processes.
He says: "We have felt a burden lifted from our shoulders. It is one less thing to think about. It has allowed us to concentrate more on our own physical and mental wellbeing.
WHAT IS THE “BURDEN” ? WHAT IS THE “ONE LESS THING TO WORRY ABOUT” ? WHAT HAS ALLOWED THEM TO CONCENTRATE ON THEIR OWN…….WELL BEING ?

 

Tuesday 15 May 

Robert Murat is made official arguido and, for the first time, mentions that he is being made a scapegoat.
The hire car is returned by Murat’s mother. There is a discrepancy over the mileage, Murat says 60-120, hire company says over 400
 

Wednesday 16 May

Madeleine Fund launched

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Crackfox on 12.03.18 20:55

Thanks Polyenne I tbink your tbeory is very plausible - just one tbought tbough - I can't imagine anyone puttiing the blue bag back in the apartment after it had been used as part of a crime. So I think movement of a body might be later, perhaps dependent on obtaining access to somewhere secure, or the bag was used to remove evidence but not necessarily a body. This is the only explanation I can think of for the blue bag's disappearance and because it was still around on tbe night of the disappearance it is problematic for a premeditated scenario of more than a few days IMO.

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 12.03.18 20:59

Thanks Crackfox. I was split between the blue bag concealing the body or being used to dispose of the materials used in the clean up. Either way, it would contain material that the dogs would signal.

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Crackfox on 12.03.18 21:10

Hi Polyenne  I  am also undecided on that but as you say it was photographed in the apartment and that's a high risk strategy if it has previously contained a body. It could be someone else's bag or one of a pair- I agree that the evidence of Eddie suggests there was something of significance in the wardrobe. My guess is there were two blue bags and the one in the wardrobe was clean. I also think a bag was probably placed in the bushes before being removed by someone.  Great work!

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 12.03.18 21:32

There is clearly an incredible amount of detail that it is not in my timeline and I don’t profess to know what the answers are.

I started the timeline for my own reasons but thought I’d post it to see what others think and to see if collectively, it was worth building up.

This doesn’t in any way differ or detract from other research especially how it was possible to “fake” her crèche attendance.

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Crackfox on 12.03.18 22:03

I think your timeline is helpful  and what's good about laying it out like this is that we see how pieces of the puzzle fit together I think GM probably had his own sport kit bag or even golf clubs. I think there are many players in this drama who have been deliberately kept out of the spotlight and my guess is there was some activity that was on the night - Gerry was only vouched for by two very significant witnesses and I believe the calling of the priest was important because for some reason they needed that key and they could only get it after the disappearance.

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Verdi on 12.03.18 23:54

Too many inaccuracies and too much speculation.

Disregard press reports, supposition, hearsay and gossip. Stick to fact and evidence and you can't go wrong.

You know it makes sense.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by HiDeHo on 13.03.18 3:00

@polyenne wrote:
polyenne quote CLICK HERE to see Spoiler:
Robert Murat & Gerry McCann “know” each other is some way prior to the PdL holiday 

Saturday 28 April

McCanns arrive mid afternoon...go to the tapas at 5pm for information about the Ocean Club and details about its amenities. They leave the apartment and go to the Millennium restaurant with all the other couples and their children, eat their meal and go back to the apartment...ready for the start of their holiday.

Sunday 29 April


The cleaners daughter sees all the McCann family outside the apartment at around 1.15pm, Madeleine holding bread and possibly heading up to the Payne's apartment for lunch (the only day the do so).
They go to the pool around lunchtime as it’s a lovely sunny day with temperatures around 23c and this is likely where the 'last photo' was taken.
They dine at the Tapas restaurant that night.
 

Late Sunday or early Monday  -  something tragic befalls Madeleine by the window where the blood splatters were found  and they know it will be fatal

Monday 30 April


The abduction plan is hatched during the day/evening. All the T9 are vague as to their movements on this day. Neither of the McCann’s mobiles trigger the Luz antenna.
They all go to the Millennium for breakfast but the McCanns decide that it is difficult walking with the twins and for this day forward they breakfast in 5A.
Creche records show that Madeleine is taken out of the creche after a few minutes and the twins shortly after.
Something may have happened with the shutters on this day (NOT Sunday) as the maintenance men are asked to fix them (they came on Tuesday). Curiously Matthew also claims to have had a problem with his shutters (they were in the apartment next door). As a trial, did they try to jemmy Matthew’s shutters first ?

Tuesday 01 May
Gerry’s mobile is not used at all this day but Kate makes/takes a number of calls between 10.16 and 20.35 but deletes them all from the handsets memory
Murat flies out to Portugal having bought a ticket very early that same day. He is required to become an interpreter, “infiltrate” the investigation and thus better able to understand the direction the PJ are taking in order that “covering steps can be taken” and the “media controlled”. Unbeknown to him, as the investigation progresses, he will become a patsy.
The McCanns have breakfast in their apartment with food bought from the Baptiste store. They will do this each morning.  
Gerry first uses the shortcut ”between the buildings” (as shown to him by Russell) to collect Madeleine.
According to tennis records and Georgina the tennis coach, this was the morning that Madeleine had MINI TENNIS. The mini tennis was discussed by Kate, Jane and Rachael and became very confusing as Rachael claims it was Thursday and Jane claims it was Wednesday. MINI TENNIS was between 10am and 11am (records show 10.30-11). Kate claims to have run back to the apartment to get her camera to take a pic... Rachael claims it was Jane who took the tennis balls Pic and Russell claims it was not Jane.
NOTE : According to OC repair man, between 10-11am, 2 of them go to 5A to repair shutters in child’s room and to show Kate McCann how to use washing machine – she is there alone.

At lunchtime Gerry walks with Jez Wilkins to the creche to pick up Madeleine.  Gerry makes a point of telling Jez that they leave the children alone.
After lunch Gerry & Kate walk to the beach allegedly with Madeleine and the twins.  It was a chilly day and the twins don’t want to go in the water so they buy 5 ice creams (to seemingly confirm there are 5 of them ?) and they watch a guitarist at the restaurant, “over-describing” him.
They return to place ”Madeleine” in the creche at 2.50pm.  Gerry buys sunglasses from a street vendor on the way back (is this because the last picture has been taken on the Sunday so by saying he doesn’t have sunglasses lends credibility to it having been taken after Tuesday ?)
They all go to the Tapas except Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien who stay in their apartment because their youngest daughter is sick. Is David Payne absent too ?
According to the qirl who runs the quiz from about 9pm (and then joins the table until approx 9.50pm) NO-ONE leaves the table and she apparently does not see Kate during that time and also does not remember seeing David Payne.
Between 22.16 & 22.27pm Kate receives a 'flurry' of 6 calls, possibly at the apartment.
 

I believe it is around this time that Madeleine dies

 

Mrs Fenn, in the apartment above, claims to hear crying getting increasingly stronger with what sounds like 'Daddy, Daddy, Daddy' and which goes on from 22.30 until 23.45. Is the crying Mrs Fenn hears actually Kate and the words are “Maddie, Maddie, Maddie” not “Daddy, Daddy, Daddy”. And why the McCanns are so keen to state that they never call her Maddie ??
Mrs Fenn hears patio doors close and the crying stops. Is this when Gerry (and others ?) return using the patio doors to enter ?
Kate sleeps in the children’s room (though she tells the PJ it was Wednesday night). Was something happening with Madeleine’s lifeless body in the apartment that Kate could not bear to witness and/or she needed to be with the twins ?
 

IMPORTANT NOTE : the mobile phones of both Robert Murat and Gerry McCann are switched off from approximately 3pm this day until late evening on Wednesday 02 May.  


Wednesday 02 May


Little or no mention of this day in Gerry’s statement of 10 May 2007
Very early, around 7am, Kate has 3 calls (deleted) to her friend in England, Amanda (who is married to a pathologist). Shortly after at around 8am, Gerry starts receiving the first of 14 text messages.
The calls that day also include the “strange” Swansea number…..the only number that Kate never deleted. Hmmm ! 
Jane & Kate have a tennis lesson at 09.00.
Jane then says at 10.10 she & Kate watch the Ella & Madeleine play tennis in a group.
At some point during Wednesday morning the cleaner is let into apartment 5A and the McCanns leave via the balcony door. The cleaner makes the beds and notices a cot in the McCann’s bedroom. Gerry and Kate both deny the cot is there. There are a number of references to Kate sleeping in the kids bedroom or Madeleine sleeping in the parents room, possibly to disguise which beds have been slept in and which have not ? Or did Kate sleep in the parents room on Tuesday night together with the twins in the cot rather than the children’s room ?
In the evening Jez Wilkins is at the Tapas when Gerry arrives with Russell and is told that Kate is putting the children to bed.
Where is Jane, with Kate? Are they together someplace ? Do they EVER go to the Tapas ?
The group stays at the Tapas until late that night. The waiters want to leave at midnight but the group stays until approx 1am. Is there something important to discuss/plan or do they need an alibi as something else is happening ?
According to Kate and Gerry, they leave just before 11pm...Gerry leaves first and when she arrives back at the apartment, Gerry is in bed. He claims Kate spends a few moments in bed and because of his snoring goes to sleep in Madeleine and twins room.
Robert Murat “remembers” he has a number of meetings that day including with Sergei Malinka in the morning at his mother’s house and a lengthy one in a café with his lawyer in the afternoon. 
 

I believe this is the day that Madeleine’s body, in the blue bag, is placed in the refrigerator of apartment 5J having discussed with knowledgeable people the best way to immediately deal with a dead body   
 

Thursday 03 May

I believe it is this day that the body, in the bluebag, is brought down from 5J and placed in the shrubbery outside 5A whilst the transport vehicle is bought to the side gate. It is then taken to a “safe house”.  
 

The McCanns tell us they drop off the Twins at the Tapas creche and Gerry takes “Madeleine” to the Kids club creche at the reception while Kate plays her tennis game at 9.15am (his follows at 11.15am)
Rachel claims she sits with Kate by the pool awaiting Madeleine's mini tennis and when the children arrive (around 10.30am) claims Jane was there and takes the photo of Madeleine with the tennis balls. Kate signs “Madeleine” out at 12.25. Kate says in her statement that she goes back to the apartment first and prepares lunch for the children. Gerry says that it is HE who picks up “Madeleine” and he remembers that because he takes the short cut. Kate says she goes back to the Tapas creche to see if Gerry has picked up the twins...neither of them appear to know and Catriona the nanny doesn’t recall WHO picks up and drops off “Madeleine” on Thursday.
This is very interesting as the police timeline diagrams claim that although Kate and Gerry claim the twins are in the creche....there are NO creche records for them....Thursday morning diagrams do not show the twins were at the creche...
Robert Murat says he & Michaela are at a meeting in the morning, visit 2 apartments in the afternoon and then go to the Palmares Golf Club.
The McCanns claim they take the twins back to the creche at 14.40 (approx) and drop Madeleine off at her creche at 14.50.
Kate goes for a jog and passes the T7 who are down on the beach at the Paraiso.
Gerry claims to be at high tea while the children are there and Kate arrives after her jog at approx 17.30. Kate consistently claims that “Madeleine” is very tired and that she asks her mother to carry her home. The children are signed out at 17.30.
Kate then carries her back to the apartment but Gerry claims they go to the patio doors and he lets them in through the back.  If, indeed, Kate has been carrying “Madeleine”, how does she manage the twins on her own, climbing the steep steps at the rear of the apartment ?
Kate claims she goes back to the apartment and takes a shower AND a bath ? She claims she’s in a towel when David Payne stops by to pass a message on to her from Gerry ( about 18.30) asking if she needs help to take the children to the recreation area. Kate claims he’s there for about 30 seconds. David Payne describes the children at length. Mrs Fenn (according to an interview with Goncalo Amaral) sees David Payne on the balcony about 19.00.
Gerry had gone to tennis at 18.00, the others arriving a while later from the Paraiso restaurant.
David Payne is back at his apartment at 19.10. The police ask Fiona and they finally get her to agree that she has no idea where David Payne was between 18.00 and 19.00.
Fiona goes out jogging while the children are bathed and just before it’s time to go to the Tapas, which makes them a little late.
20.30 – Gerry, Kate & Jane to Tapas
20.45 - Matthew & Rachael to Tapas
20.55 – David, Fiona & Dianne to Tapas
21.00 - Russell to Tapas
21.00 - food orders placed
21.00 - Matthew leaves Tapas to check 
21.05 - Gerry & Russell (?) leave the Tapas to check respective rooms. Gerry meets Jez on way back
21.10 - Jane leaves table and on way back to her apartment sees Gerry talking to Jez
21.15 - Jane sees Tannerman
21.30 - Matthew & Russell leave to check respective apartments. Matthew also checks 5A
21.45 - Jane leaves to take over from Russell
21.55 - Russell returns to finish his meal
21.55 - Smith sighting
22.00 - Kate leaves Tapas to make check and raises alarm
 

Note : timings have been taken from the various T9 statements and are therefore approximate   
 

Friday 04 May

Kate & Gerry go out early at 6am.

11.15 -  Gerry 1st PJ interview

14.20 – Kate 1st PJ interview

 

The blue bag is photographed by the PJ in the parents wardrobe but then disappears. Later, the dogs will signal at that wardrobe. Was the blue bag removed/disposed of because it had an odour ?    

 

Saturday 12 May – Madeleines 4th birthday

Murat hires a car “in a hurry” and using his ex-wife’s UK address. Is this used to finally dispose of Madeleine’s body ?

 



Thanks polyenne.  I see you seem to have used my timeline as a base and added some different information, which is good to see as it opens up new thoughts.


Title: Holiday Timeline and Discrepancies - Did something happen to Madeleine DURING the week?
http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/Holiday-Timeline-and-Discrepancies-Did-something-happen-to-Madeleine-DURING-the-week-1-2271280.html


A couple of things Re: May 1st and 12th



@polyenne wrote:
Tuesday 01 May
Murat flies out to Portugal having bought a ticket very early that same day. 

According to flight records Robert Murat booked his ticket on 30th April 2007








Saturday 12 May – Madeleines 4th birthday

Murat hires a car “in a hurry” and using his ex-wife’s UK address. Is this used to finally dispose of Madeleine’s body ?

He was followed by the PJ that day (as well as possibly other days?)






http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm







04 Processo Volume 4 Pages 986-992

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_986
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_987
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_988
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_989
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_990
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_991
04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_992
External Diligence 12 May 2007 in Lagos
Officers: Manuel P., Joao C. and Luis P., Inspectors

- From the items collected and conveyed in the case file documents pertaining to RJQE Murat, we determine that he makes use of a vehicle "VW Transporter", green, licence plate 44-77-KD.
- After finding the vehicle we mounted surveillance at Rua Agostinho ... Luz where the vehicle was parked.
- At 12h40 the observed person was seen leaving the house, getting into the vehicle and going to the town centre, stopping at Rua 1 de Maio, where he engages in conversation with various people, in our view, in a casual manner, like someone explaining something.
- At 13h05 the target goes to a roadside bench sited in Rua 1 de Maio, Luz. In this place he speaks with an elderly woman who was there in order to gather information about the disappearance of the child. This bench, it was clearly said in the media, is being attended by a lady who is in Portugal for several years, and who was there to receive information about Madeleine from people who had some reluctance to communicate it to the authorities. This woman is the mother of the observed person and identifies herself as JA Murat.
- Soon after the observed person goes to the pastelaria "Dom Doce" where he bought food that he took to the lady, his mother, very soon after, peeping into a vehicle that was also parked there, a Peugeot 206, licence RI-96-03.
- At 13h11 the target gets into his vehicle and leaves in the direction of Lagos. About 13h22 he parks the vehicle in Rua Adelina ... Lagos and goes inside number 8. 
At 15h09 the observed person leaves in the car and proceeds to Rua Joao Moniz Nogueira, Lagos, parks the vehicle and enters lot B. 
Some minutes later, 15h35, the target gets back into the vehicle and proceeds in the direction of the town of Luz.
- At 15h54 the observed person parks the vehicle near to "Casa Liliana" a little further along from where it was during the night, going then inside the Villa.
- At 16h41 he gets back into the vehicle and drives off to the centre of town, stopping next to the above-mentioned "Dom Doce". 
Six minutes later, 16h47, he goes to an ATM of Caixa Credito Agricola situated at no. 2-4, Travessa 1 de Maio. He begins a conversation with someone, both speaking in English.
- At 17h01 the observed person and the above-mentioned lady load the bench and other equipment into the VW. 
At 17h06 the target walks to Rua 1 de Maio, going down, coming to meet an individual about 180cm tall, thin, wearing glasses and an orange T-shirt. 
At 17h09 he enters the premises of the car rental agency "Auto Vermietung - auto rent III" in the Largo da Igreja 
[church square],Luz. 
About 17h16 the observed person leaves the rent-a-car and gets into a vehicle, Hyundai Getz, blue, licence 60-AX-86, going to Rua 1 de Maio where he stops next to the pastelaria "Dom Doce", entering this place accompanied by the bench lady. 
At 17h48 the observed person goes in the Hyundai and stops in Rua Direita where he goes to "Batista" supermarket.
At 17h58 he leaves "Batista" proceeding to the EN125 and later to the A22, Portimao direction [direction: from West to East]. 
At 18h26 he parks the vehicle in the car park next to the Portimonense stadium in Portimao and, now on foot, at 18h31 enters the premises of the police. 
At 20h52 he leaves the police station, goes to the vehicle and proceeds to Lagos. 
At 21h16 he stops next to number 8 Rua Adelina ... Lagos and collects a woman who was waiting there for him. Then he proceeds in the direction of Praia da Luz and Burgau. 
At 21h37 he goes along the detour of Praia da Cabana Velha, turns round and enters the Restaurant "D. Dinis". 
At 23h35 the observed person, together with the woman, leaves the restaurant returning to Praia da Luz in the vehicle, there going ahead of him the other vehicle already referred to, the Peugeot, licence RI-96-03, which was transporting the elderly lady who was on the bench. 
At 23h45 the target in his vehicle and the Peugeot RI-96-03 arrive at Rua Agostino ... Luz, opening the gates to Casa Liliana and parking the Peugeot inside. The target and his companion then go, in the Hyundai, to the centre of Praia da Luz. 
At 00h47 the observed person releases [drops off] the woman who accompanied him next to number 8 Rua Adelina ... Lagos, heading shortly after to Luz. 
At 00h55 the observed person parked the vehicle next to the gate of Casa 
Liliana, entering the house.
- At 01:30 this work was ended.
[Signed Joao C., Inspector]

Pages 990-992 are vehicle registration documents.
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 13.03.18 6:23

Hi Lizzy
At the risk of admitting plagiarism, yes it was your research that first started me on my own timeline. Your knowledge of the files is far greater than mine and I’m indebted to you for the additional information.

We have to keep digging, I feel one day 2 key pieces of the jigsaw will suddenly fit and the bigger picture will start to form

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Mark Willis on 13.03.18 8:14

The signalling (by Eddie?) in the bushes intrigues me. As a hiding place for the blue bag it would have to have been temporary. It would be of no use after 10pm May 3rd as even a perfunctory search around 5A would have revealed the blue bag.
Even days prior to May 3rd the bushes would be a poor choice of hiding place. But I'd never considered it to be a "pick up" place. 

However..was Murat's hire car "sniffed"? Only the Mc hire car revealed the presence of cadaverine. Then again, there is that thing about Murat having maybe 2 (operating) cars and for some reason went and hired one.
Murat lied so many times (what was it, made 19 changes to his initial statement?) regards his movements that week. Was he already known to Gerry, summoned as a handy infiltrator into any subsequent investigation? What guarantee was there he'd get that translating gig, anyway?
To me Murat was always the 10th Tapas.
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Basil with a brush on 13.03.18 8:23

@Mark Willis wrote:
To me Murat was always the 10th Tapas.

I had him as the eleventh  shhhh

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The lying didn't end it, the insult to my intelligence did.
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 13.03.18 8:56

Oh Basil, you little tease !!

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Ruffian on 13.03.18 9:11

@Mark Willis wrote:The signalling (by Eddie?) in the bushes intrigues me. As a hiding place for the blue bag it would have to have been temporary. It would be of no use after 10pm May 3rd as even a perfunctory search around 5A would have revealed the blue bag.
Even days prior to May 3rd the bushes would be a poor choice of hiding place. But I'd never considered it to be a "pick up" place. 

However..was Murat's hire car "sniffed"? Only the Mc hire car revealed the presence of cadaverine. Then again, there is that thing about Murat having maybe 2 (operating) cars and for some reason went and hired one.
Murat lied so many times (what was it, made 19 changes to his initial statement?) regards his movements that week. Was he already known to Gerry, summoned as a handy infiltrator into any subsequent investigation? What guarantee was there he'd get that translating gig, anyway?
To me Murat was always the 10th Tapas.

Eddie  only alerted to the key fob which had been in the door pocket of the car
Forensic testing matched cellular material on the key fob to Gerald McCann
Eddie did not alert to the car boot area even though he can be seen going under that area
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by ferrotty on 13.03.18 9:17

What would be their motive then to hide their daughters death because if as you said that Madeline died Sunday or early Monday then the supposed reason was because they had been leaving their children alone in the apartment but this did not happen till after her supposed death so what is their motive.

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 13.03.18 9:27

Ferrotty - for me, unfortunately, it comes down to the P word. And other people who were there that week (that we are not aware of). I cannot see any other reason for the rapid mobilisation and extent iof assets

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Ruffian on 13.03.18 9:34

According the the PJFiles Madeleine was alive and well on Tuesday playing tennis
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by HiDeHo on 13.03.18 13:01

@polyenne wrote:Hi Lizzy
At the risk of admitting plagiarism, yes it was your research that first started me on my own timeline. Your knowledge of the files is far greater than mine and I’m indebted to you for the additional information.

We have to keep digging, I feel one day 2 key pieces of the jigsaw will suddenly fit and the bigger picture will start to form


polyenne I have already said I am HAPPY to have my research used and have your additional information added  :)

I'm here, like you, to find the truth of what happened.  I'm not here to prove prove I'm right, so I LOVE seeing others use or question anything I have claimed.

I particularly like having members like @Phoebe also question certain scenarios with thought provoking comments.  I NEED to second guess some of my thoughts and phoebe certainly adds some very good alternatives .

It was 'Snowy' back in April 2010 that first inspired me to look at the last time Maddie was seen.  I had already thought something had happened earlier because the discrepancies started on Tuesday morning and there had to be  SOMETHING they were hiding. Snowy ALWAYS made me second guess myself, and in this case inspired me to research one of the most important topics. 'When was Madeleine last seen'.  I cant believe that was 8 years ago!

Title: Who Saw Madeleine?- Credibility & Statement Highlights
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Re-Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html

EVERYONE does such a great job. Which is why I'm here)    high5
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by HiDeHo on 13.03.18 13:25

@ferrotty wrote:What would be their motive then to hide their daughters death because if as you said that Madeline died Sunday or early Monday then the supposed reason was because they had been leaving their children alone in the apartment but this did not happen till after her supposed death so what is their motive.


Personally, (apart from my own thoughts)  I have never found it important to discuss WHY she died and WHY it was important to cover it up.  Nothing indicates this in the files and any discussion would likely be speculation (which I try to avoid)

The police 'tell us' that Maddie died and they hid her body and simulated an abduction, I prefer to discuss HOW this happened and the WHY's will be discovered once the truth is known.

I believe it WILL be known...and that will be (imo) once the UK public learn the truth from the files and the McCann support dwindles.

THAT is what they fear the most in my opinion and THAT is my goal.  Not to 'solve' the case but to educate the UK public.

HiDeHo4 Playlist of 35 McMinute videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvtmlFOtf24ik4mFoYoKEAZORrdtDp1zD




McMINUTE: It's time ALL the UK know they can read the POLICE FILES about Madeleine McCann


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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Ruffian on 13.03.18 13:29

@HiDeHo wrote:
@polyenne wrote:Hi Lizzy
At the risk of admitting plagiarism, yes it was your research that first started me on my own timeline. Your knowledge of the files is far greater than mine and I’m indebted to you for the additional information.

We have to keep digging, I feel one day 2 key pieces of the jigsaw will suddenly fit and the bigger picture will start to form


polyenne I have already said I am HAPPY to have my research used and have your additional information added  :)

I'm here, like you, to find the truth of what happened.  I'm not here to prove prove I'm right, so I LOVE seeing others use or question anything I have claimed.

I particularly like having members like @Phoebe also question certain scenarios with thought provoking comments.  I NEED to second guess some of my thoughts and phoebe certainly adds some very good alternatives .

It was 'Snowy' back in April 2010 that first inspired me to look at the last time Maddie was seen.  I had already thought something had happened earlier because the discrepancies started on Tuesday morning and there had to be  SOMETHING they were hiding. Snowy ALWAYS made me second guess myself, and in this case inspired me to research one of the most important topics. 'When was Madeleine last seen'.  I cant believe that was 8 years ago!

Title: Who Saw Madeleine?- Credibility & Statement Highlights
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Re-Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html

EVERYONE does such a great job. Which is why I'm here)    high5
@hideo    According to the PJFiles Madeleine was playing tennis, alive and well on Tuesday so what do you feel they were hiding on Tuesday morning?
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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by HiDeHo on 13.03.18 13:34

@Ruffian wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:
@polyenne wrote:Hi Lizzy
At the risk of admitting plagiarism, yes it was your research that first started me on my own timeline. Your knowledge of the files is far greater than mine and I’m indebted to you for the additional information.

We have to keep digging, I feel one day 2 key pieces of the jigsaw will suddenly fit and the bigger picture will start to form


polyenne I have already said I am HAPPY to have my research used and have your additional information added  :)

I'm here, like you, to find the truth of what happened.  I'm not here to prove prove I'm right, so I LOVE seeing others use or question anything I have claimed.

I particularly like having members like @Phoebe also question certain scenarios with thought provoking comments.  I NEED to second guess some of my thoughts and phoebe certainly adds some very good alternatives .

It was 'Snowy' back in April 2010 that first inspired me to look at the last time Maddie was seen.  I had already thought something had happened earlier because the discrepancies started on Tuesday morning and there had to be  SOMETHING they were hiding. Snowy ALWAYS made me second guess myself, and in this case inspired me to research one of the most important topics. 'When was Madeleine last seen'.  I cant believe that was 8 years ago!

Title: Who Saw Madeleine?- Credibility & Statement Highlights
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Re-Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html

EVERYONE does such a great job. Which is why I'm here)    high5
@hideo    According to the PJFiles Madeleine was playing tennis, alive and well on Tuesday so what do you feel they were hiding on Tuesday morning?


There are MANY discrepancies and possible lies about Tuesday morning which I have put together in this video for easier viewing than reading a post.


ALSO, regardless of suggestions that Georgina the tennis coach said she saw her... in fact she does NOT specifically mention seeing Maddie or that she recognised who she was.  Only that she was 'one of a group'.  That info could be based on only the knowledge that the 'Lobsters' played that morning on the records.



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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by polyenne on 13.03.18 13:46

On Monday the McCanns go "silent" and on Tuesday it's all a bit "wonky"....make of it what you will but something ain't right

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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by HiDeHo on 13.03.18 14:06

@polyenne wrote:On Monday the McCanns go "silent" and on Tuesday it's all a bit "wonky"....make of it what you will but something ain't right


One of the first videos I started compiling was put together with all comments about a specific day.

I have never released this vid as it was 90mins in its 'crude' form and was too time consuming to complete.

However, I have uploaded some of it and you can view all the 'Monday' comments, including those from Kates book.

Monday starts at 4 mins and ends around 13 mins

McCann Holiday (starting with Monday)
https://youtu.be/wUcR4cuq5qA?t=304



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Re: Possible Timeline ? Discuss

Post by Ruffian on 13.03.18 14:07

RANSLATION BY INES
02-Processos Vol II Pages 261-263
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_261
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_262
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_263
Witness Statement
Maria Manuela Antonia Jose
Date: 06 - 05 - 2007
Place of Work: OC

She has worked at the OC, since 25 March 2006, in Luz, as a cook in one of the restaurants within the complex, called the Tapas Restaurant.

With relation to the facts being investigated, she confirms that on the 4 May 2007, at about 18h30, when arriving for work at the complex, she heard from her supervisor, Steve, that a female child who was staying with her parents and siblings at one of the OC apartments had gone missing on the previous day (3rd May 2007).

When she was informed about the disappearance she did not realise which child this was, it was only later, upon watching the television news that night and after seeing pictures of the missing child on television, that she realised who the girl was, referring to her as Madeleine (the name used by the journalists) remembering only at that moment that she had seen her during the meals provided to the children at the crèche, and which take place at the restaurant where she works and during arrivals at the crêche where Madeleine spent the day, located immediately next to the restaurant.

Upon questioning, the witness confirms that on the day of the disappearance, she worked at the restaurant from 10h00 to 18h45, when, having finished her shift, she went home, where she remained with her 13 year old son until approximately 10h00 the following day (4th May).

On 4th May 2007, due to the fact that she had a medical appointment at the Lagos Health Centre followed by an appointment at the Portimao Court at 15h00, she only began work at 18h30 (dinner service, which lasts until 24h00).

With relation to the facts being investigated, she only knows what she heard from the media or from conversations with her colleagues.

Upon questioning, she states that the last time she saw Madeleine was at approximately 16.30 on 3rd May 2007 when she was having dinner with the other children in their part of the restaurant, as she did each day of that week.

She information that it of use to the investigation, and has nothing more to add, but repeats that the girl was with her parents on holiday at the resort, together with her two twin siblings.

She has no knowledge of any suspicious situation.

Reads, ratifies and signs.
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