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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Post by Winter 18.07.21 3:36

I have no idea what I put in my post that would indicate I’m dismissing people’s theory or don’t have any respect for them. And somehow addressing issues that have never been addressed is interpreted as ignoring them? Yes, I have been lurking. I only posted now because I thought I had something to contribute. I would never claim that other people didn’t see it or even that my theory is correct. I specifically stated in my post that I was deliberately opening my theory up to scrutiny. I’m not an astronomer or a mariner, and I never claimed I’m an expert. As far as I can tell, the main thing PeterMac is discussing is what day the photo was taken on. I’m not contradicting him on this. And he never states any proof he has that the last photo was taken at solar zenith. He doesn’t because he doesn’t believe it’s important and that’s the only thing I fundamentally disagree with him on. I said I disagree with him and I stated my reasons. All he stated about the time itself is that it was between 12:30 and 2:30.because the shadows are very short. He never talks about the way shadows are pointing or where the sun is. He also doesn’t completely close the door on possible photo manipulation. Obviously, it’s not the way he is leaning at the moment. However, his book shows that he does keep his mind open and will adjust a theory if he has good reason for doing so, and that’s all we can ask of anyone. Just stating my theory does not automatically dismiss everyone else’s theory. However, I apologize if I gave you or anyone else the wrong impression. I tend to be forceful with the way I speak, and I try to soften it. Evidently, I’m not always successful In this. I have, however searched diligently for any thread or a portion in PeterMac’s book for my specific contention, and I never seen it discussed. Had I, I would not have posted, as PeterMac had two experts looking at it. I myself am having a hard time accepting my own theory, as I don’t know how they could have faked it and gotten away with it. It’s not a theory I just leapt to. When people were arguing about the black line or whatever, I immediately did some research and found arguments that I thought explained it adequately. I found plenty of discussions about the photo but nothing specifically addressing my problem. Despite the length of my post, I can boil it down to one question: Why are the three McCann’s sitting in a spot they could not be sitting in if my interpretation is correct? It’s either doctored or my interpretation is not correct. If I’m incorrect and someone has time to spare, then showing me the error of my ways would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Winter 18.07.21 8:18

Okay, I still can’t edit my first post, so I’ll put the images here for now. It will be good practice.

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Okay, Verdi’s post indicates to me that I may have given the wrong impression. I’m not arguing that the photo was not taken on Sunday, April 29th. I am also not arguing that the photo wasn’t taken at solar zenith. As short as the shadows are on Madeleine and Amelia, I completely agree with PeterMac that they were taken between the hours of 12:30 pm and 2:30 pm. In fact, the McCanns adamant stance that the photo was taken at solar zenith is what led me to believe that the original photo might have been taken at solar zenith and they lined up the elements that they added or manipulated to give the appearance that they lined up with solar zenith. It is interesting to note that the shadows in the photo actually lie upon the solar zenith line. It’s only that the source is in the wrong position. Move the sun from the northeast to the southwest and you have solar zenith. This, I believe would make it easier to manipulate the photo without getting caught right away.. I do, however, have serious doubts about Jerry. I do not believe he was in the original image. What I do think is possible  is that they used a photograph of Jerry taken on Sunday about an hour so later than the one of the girls. It would not be solar zenith, but the shadows would still be going in the same direction. This would explain the discrepancies between the short shadows on the girls and the longer shadows on him.. I had initially theorized that the reason fo the dates being wrong was because they didn’t take Daylight Savings Time into account. Yet, when I looked  it up in PeterMac’s book, he says solar zenith is at 1.29. I don’t know if he’s taking Daylight Savings into account. However, if he is, then the photo of the girls could have been taken at the solar zenith of 1.29 while the one of Jerry was taken an hour later at 2.29.

While I don’t know how popular the theory is, mine actually unintentionally supports the one about the reflection in Jerry’s sunglasses being rotated. When flipped horizontally, it seems to be a reflection of the background in the pool photo where Jerry was sitting. This is understandable if the photo was taken when he was on the opposite side of the pool from where he is in the photograph.  There is a shadow in the reflection and when viewed horizontally and flipping it, as it is a reflection, it would lay in rhe direction of solar zenith. However, the shadow is a bit long for solar zenith, and this could be explained by the hour time difference between the two photos. The edge of Amelie’s hat can be seen in the reflection, so what they may have been doing is just sitting around the pool area while Kate was taking several pictures of them.

I realize that some people believe that the sunglasses were not purchased until Tuesday, May 1. However, the only person with a firsthand account of this seems to be Kate and considering the pack of lies she has told, I’m really not inclined to believe it without further proof. She could have just been saying that to bolster the fact that the last photo was taken around lunchtime on Thursday. If not for the sunglasses, there really is no reason for Jerry to be in the photograph. It is interesting to note that it was Tuesday, either the day of or the day after many people believe something tragic happened to Madeleine, that Jerry decided he suddenly needed sunglasses. The weather really wasn’t sunglasses’ weather at that point. And possibly the reflection in the glasses was flipped to edit Kate out. Jerry is looking right at her, so she should be in the reflection, and we are actually seeing only the background reflected in one lens. If it is supposed to be horizontal what would the reflection in the other lens show?

So at least as far as I can tell, it wouldn’t really take much editing. The shadows would line up.along the solar zenith line. Only Jerry’s is out of sync, but then obviously they didn’t do a good job of editing it. And the same could be said for the horizontal flip in the sunglasses. The biggest problem would be the background. I know how difficult it is to change that without tipping someone off. If that’s what happened, I don’t know how they did it. That is the weakest part of my theory.
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Post by Silentscope 18.07.21 10:36

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]wrote: I completely agree with PeterMac that they were taken between the hours of 12:30 pm and 2:30 pm. 


Suncalc: Silentscope 


Having rotated the Satellite image to get the tree and the back wall to line up properly, it seems to be that the photo was taken around a time window of approximately 13:21 to 13:29 UTC +1.


(Solar zenith was 13:32:03 on the 1 May which was the first day that Kate said Gerry bought his sunglasses)


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Post by Verdi 18.07.21 13:47

Aha I see Winter, so through all that highfalutin bluster what you're actually saying is you think the poolside photograph was photoshopped - just as I thought!

Fourteen years of study and analysis gone in a puff of bluster!

I ask again, did you/have you/will you thoroughly read and absorb the full content of PeterMac's e-book and the wealth of member contribution to this subject here on CMOMM?  A rhetorical question of course.

Meanwhile enjoy the forum and feel free to comment on any other aspect of this convoluting case - the Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann.

Oh and my the way in the interest of accuracy, it's Gerry with a G as in Gerald, not Jerry with a J as in Tom 'n Jerry!

howdy

ETA:  This alone should keep you going for a while..

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Post by Winter 18.07.21 14:04

I am not comfortable with the idea that it is photoshopped, Verdi, and that is basically because I have read all the posts and the fourteen years of research. Photoshopping a picture and getting away with it would probably be harder than the McCanns pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes. The reason for my “bluster” and insanely long explanation is because I was uncomfortable about even suggesting the theory. It only comes from one thing and that has to do with the shadows seeming to indicate that the sun is in a position it can’t be at that particular time. I do not have any other proof. There is nothing that suggests my theory is right. And I don’t believe even that suggests my theory is right. My perception and knowledge leave plenty of doubt that I simply could be mistaken. And I honestly don’t know what else to say. I’m sorry that even bringing it up just automatically seems to mean I’m dismissing everybody’s research when, for me, I was just hoping someone had an easy explanation. So, all I can say at this point is I apologize. I won’t make he mistake again.
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Post by Verdi 18.07.21 14:08

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Post by Verdi 18.07.21 15:37

Winter wrote:I am not comfortable with the idea that it is photoshopped, Verdi, and that is basically because I have read all the posts and the fourteen years of research. Photoshopping a picture and getting away with it would probably be harder than the McCanns pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes.

Excuse my hignorance, but doesn't this equate to photoshopping, or image manipulation, or image adjustment - call it what you will..

Winter wrote:In fact, the McCanns adamant stance that the photo was taken at solar zenith is what led me to believe that the original photo might have been taken at solar zenith and they lined up the elements that they added or manipulated to give the appearance that they lined up with solar zenith. It is interesting to note that the shadows in the photo actually lie upon the solar zenith line. It’s only that the source is in the wrong position. Move the sun from the northeast to the southwest and you have solar zenith. This, I believe would make it easier to manipulate the photo without getting caught right away.. I do, however, have serious doubts about Jerry. I do not believe he was in the original image. What I do think is possible is that they used a photograph of Jerry taken on Sunday about an hour so later than the one of the girls. It would not be solar zenith, but the shadows would still be going in the same direction. This would explain the discrepancies between the short shadows on the girls and the longer shadows on him.. I had initially theorized that the reason fo the dates being wrong was because they didn’t take Daylight Savings Time into account. Yet, when I looked it up in PeterMac’s book, he says solar zenith is at 1.29. I don’t know if he’s taking Daylight Savings into account. However, if he is, then the photo of the girls could have been taken at the solar zenith of 1.29 while the one of Jerry was taken an hour later at 2.29.

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Post by Silentscope 18.07.21 17:41

I think Winter has overlooked that Gerry has turned his body towards the Camera, whereas the Children’s bodies are facing the centre of the Pool.

If he turns himself left, it would cause the shadow on his T Shirt to fall one Solar hour later than the Children’s who were facing the Sun.

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Post by PeterMac 19.07.21 7:10

One of the things I say in my Chapters about the Last=Pool photo is that it is largely irrelevant whether it was taken at 13:29 or 14:29; 12:29 or 15:29.
That is not the issue.
The issue is whether it was taken on Thursday 3rd May 2007.
It wasn't.
It CANNOT have been taken on 3/5/7, nor yet on 2/5/7, 1/5/7, or even 30/4/7

It can ONLY have been taken on Sunday 29th April 2007.
That is the only possible day a genuine photo of that scene could have been taken.

But the McCanns have to insist it was, because it is the only evidence they can adduce that Madeleine was alive and well at lunchtime on that day.
And their insistence on this leads to another conclusion altogether.
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Post by PeterMac 19.07.21 9:06

Keep your eye on the squirrel 

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Post by Winter 19.07.21 18:53

I tried not to come to a snap judgment, but it’s very clear to me, Verdi, that all you’re interested in doing is launching personal attacks. Considering that, I consider whatever negative things you have said about as backhanded compliments. I finally found someone who was willing to treat me like a reasonable human being, and I responded as one when I accepted the fact that I was wrong.

Thanks to everyone else in the thread and thanks, PeterMac. I did say more once than once that I was not taking issue with you over what day the photo was taken and couldn’t possibly be taking issue over the time, as you said it was 12:30 to 2:30, and that’s what I believe. That’s was an argument Verdi made it into. I did wonder about photo manipulation, but only because of the shadow, which I wanted some clarification on. And that’s my only reason for posting in the forum. As questions that even vaguely challenge someone’s pet theory seem to start a war, please delete my membership. And I don’t really care if you delete my posts.
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Post by Steve cooper 19.07.21 21:45

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] started and ended by saying he/she was so confused. That is exactly what will see the McCanns get away with the whole thing.There is so much mish mash of evidence that even convinced guilty voters start to wonder. It's spin at its best. Hate to sound like a 'conspiracy nut' but it worked with the Kennedy assassination and 9/11. People just start to give up and these guilty as hell people get off scot free. How does Clarence Mitchell sleep at night?   Steve Cooper
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Post by Verdi 20.07.21 0:56

Winter wrote:... please delete my membership. And I don’t really care if you delete my posts.

I'm sorry you feel that way Winter but if you're determined it's better that you unsubscribe yourself, to avoid any future repercussion or misunderstanding. You can do so here..

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I see no reason to delete your posts.

Whatever your decision I wish you well.

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Post by Cammerigal 20.07.21 1:31

We must thank our departing Winter (Spring? sorry, dad joke) for illuminating the so-called last photo. 
Winter has once again highlighted that Peter Mac's analysis clearly demonstrates, beyond reasonable doubt, that the photo was taken on a different sunny day, that of saturday the 29th April and not the cold and cloudy grey thursday 3rd may, as purported by the McCann's. The McCanns, Clarry and the british press all used the photo Exif time date stamp to legitimise their claim that MBM was alive on that day and on that hour. 

Fair Dinkum Busted! The Exif 'last' photo data, in the form of the time/date field was PC manipulated and we can once again recognise it as another manipulated lie.

I note Silentscope's point, derived from his analysis using the SunCalc tool that due to Gerry McCann's angular, poolside positioning, his shadow length and shadow angles all differ to those of his 2 daughters. This inconsistency implies that his photographic image was rendered at a different solar time (day/hour). I don't propose we dwell on this at this juncture, as any debate would pull us away from the hard evidential fact that the date of last photo was not as per the McCann claim and the EXIF data.
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Post by PeterMac 20.07.21 7:49

SUNDAY 29th.
They arrived on Saturday 28th, but late afternoon, so only in time for the Children's play area photos, which show a sunny day with large fluffy cumulus clouds – as do all the other hundreds on Flickr
Sunday was cloudless until the evening.
Then the cold weather front moved across from the North west, and did not clear until very late on Thursday evening.
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Post by Verdi 20.07.21 12:45

I'm more interested to know the provenance of that EXIF data - how and why and when it found it's way into the public domain.

To my knowledge it's the only Madeleine holiday photograph to reveal such information.

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Post by Silentscope 20.07.21 14:09

In the PJ Files there is the Photo of Madeleine in the door of a Playhouse. It is not revealed how the PJ knew the Date and Time?

Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007


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Post by Silentscope 20.07.21 15:59

Weather Satellite Images for the Lisbon / Portugal area are Archived on the following link:

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EUMETSAT / Heidelberg University.
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Post by Verdi 20.07.21 16:06

Silentscope wrote:In the PJ Files there is the Photo of Madeleine in the door of a Playhouse. It is not revealed how the PJ knew the Date and Time?

Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007


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Not sure what point you are trying make here but the above reference is not taken from the actual PJ files per se, the images are documented in the PJ files but the interpretation of the images was compiled by one of the volunteer translators, in this instant one ALBYM with the help of Lizzy 'HiDeHo' Taylor, who tried to identify the content of the black and white images taken and documented in the PJ files.  

It's all made clear in the link you provided.

The images are those taken by the McCann holiday group, surrendered to the PJ.  The McCanns with the help of their relation Michael Wright, selected specific images to hand-over to the PJ - the poolside image was not one of them!

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Post by Verdi 20.07.21 22:17

Silentscope wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So I have to ask why?   Why did they not have a more recent picture of her available for that first release?

Answer:
The Tapas 9 withheld - and then selected Photos for release, instead of making everything of possible use available straight away. What they chose to supply was of little use.

The Tapas 9 did not withhold photographs from the PJ.  The McCanns with the help of their relative Michael Wright selected specific photographs from their own equipment before handing over to the PJ.

08-Outros Processos Vol VIII Page 549
NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS

Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Gerald McCann have been visualised and analysed, some of them are from the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann.

Portimao, 09 May 2007

Signed by

Inspector Ricardo Paiva

Outros Processos Vol VIII

Page 550

NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS

Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, a relation of the McCann couple, relating to the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed.

Portimao, 09 May 2007

Signed by

Inspector Ricardo Paiva

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Post by Silentscope 21.07.21 7:29

If I was a distraught Father, I would have just given the PJ the camera.

Allowing them to view the Original Photos.

All of them, not just the ones I THINK are helpful!
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Post by Jill Havern 21.07.21 7:44

Gerry McCann was a distraught father (albeit not for the reason he gave the PJ)

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 - well, briefly anyway, until Tony Blair's government PR team arrived and this happened

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Post by Silentscope 21.07.21 7:47

The ‘praying like an Arab’ routine did not last long did it?
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Post by Jill Havern 21.07.21 7:50

Silentscope wrote:The ‘praying like an Arab’ routine did not last long did it?
Nah   nah

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Post by PeterMac 21.07.21 11:07

Silentscope wrote:In the PJ Files there is the Photo of Madeleine in the door of a Playhouse. It is not revealed how the PJ knew the Date and Time?

Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007


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It is interesting, because those two photos were very clearly taken on Saturday 28th after they had checked in and sorted out the apartment


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