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The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by Verdi on 02.08.17 15:10

paulhelstessbust wrote:Mike marshall to Richard pavia   with regards to mixing up Diane with Kate I don't think the most incompetent detective could let that go .Especially having read the statements as he said he did  there's a clear contradiction between her statement and  the one Mike Marshall sent to Richard pavia . This document was missing off the DVD files  .Ask yourself why would Fiona describe the husband arriving 10 mins after walking back with Kate. Look at the statement at 19.00 hrs she  walks back with Kate 10 mins later the husband arrived  so that's 19.10.Gerry mcanns statement I left the tennis returned to his apartment  at  guess what 19.10 exactly the same time as Fiona described .So how would fiona know Gerry arrived at 19.10 if she went back to her own apartment .
I can't understand why you persist with this.  I've already posted the extracts from Fiona Payne's witness statement and rogatory interview up-page
#12 - Fiona Payne did not say she walked back with Kate McCann, she said she walked back with her mother, Dianne Webster.

In case you missed my post I'll repeat it as it covers all your points..


Communication from Mike Marshall to Ricardo Paiva - dated 24th October 2007

Re:  David Payne  [snipped]

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.
--------

Fiona Payne's formal witness statement contained within the PJ files

Fiona Payne witness statement - 4th May 2007

Yesterday [Thursday 3rd May] they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne. They arrived there around 15H45 and left at 18H15, and

....headed towards the tennis court until about 19H00. Immediately afterwards, the witness headed towards the apartment with her children, and her mother. Ten minutes later her husband David appeared.

In the apartment her mother, helped by her husband David, bathed the children whilst the witness went jogging on the beach until around 20H00. Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.
------


Fiona Payne's rogatory interview - April 2008

 [Thursday 3rd May] 'Erm, and then I remember it getting to tennis time, because it was men's tennis that night and the men had all rearranged the time to suit us and it was getting towards six o'clock and, you know, they were going to be late, so I remember saying 'Look, you better go because it's not fair, you've moved the time then you'll be late'. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six. And we were toying with the idea of getting the kids ice creams for pudding and then thought oh we probably don't have time, but then we decided well, you know, why don't you go off and go to your tennis and we'll just give them their ice cream and follow on. And so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o'clock time. And the, you know, the wives stayed behind with the kids, they had ice cream and then we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of tennis and give the kids, you know, a little playtime. Erm, and I don't think we stayed there that long that night because the kids were pretty, pretty tired. Erm, I'm trying to think, I'd say probably by seven o'clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time. Erm, and Dave, we left him playing tennis for a bit longer. Erm, I think we'd bathed the kids by the time he got back, probably ten minutes later. Erm, and then I went for a run that night, after the kids were bathed'.
----------


 'I don't think specifically. I can't say I ever paid any attention, I knew all the apartments had the same shutters, you know, but, to be honest I never went into Kate and Gerry's apartment before the night, erm, on Thursday ' [here Fiona Payne refers to a visit to apartment 5a after the 10 pm alert by Kate McCann].
 -----

These are the only two formal interviews with Fiona Payne on public record, apart from one other which related solely to Robert Murat.

It would appear that DC Mike Marshall either knows something no one else seems to know or his memorandum to Ricardo Paiva is questionable as regards accuracy.  I think the latter - note text highlighted in red.  From where I'm standing, this throws the whole of DC Mike Marshall's communication into doubt - or better still into the trash can.

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by BlueBag on 02.08.17 15:59

Mike Marshall screwed up.

He said he didn't come up with anything that wasn't already known then proceeds to show that he didn't read the documents properly or didn't remember them properly.
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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by JRP on 02.08.17 16:25

Which decorations of Fiona Payne did Mike Marshall examine?

Fiona Paynes statement 04-05-2007

Yesterday they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne. They arrived there around 15H45 and left at 18H15, and headed towards the tennis court until about 19H00. Immediately afterwards, the witness headed towards the apartment with her children, and her mother. Ten minutes later her husband David appeared. In the apartment her mother, helped by her husband David, bathed the children whilst the witness went jogging on the beach until around 20H00. Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.


Fiona Paynes statement 10-04-2008


'Erm, and then I remember it getting to tennis time, because it was men's tennis that night and the men had all rearranged the time to suit us and it was getting towards six o'clock and, you know, they were going to be late, so I remember saying 'Look, you better go because it's not fair, you've moved the time then you'll be late'. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six. And we were toying with the idea of getting the kids ice creams for pudding and then thought oh we probably don't have time, but then we decided well, you know, why don't you go off and go to your tennis and we'll just give them their ice cream and follow on. And so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o'clock time. And the, you know, the wives stayed behind with the kids, they had ice cream and then we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of tennis and give the kids, you know, a little playtime. Erm, and I don't think we stayed there that long that night because the kids were pretty, pretty tired. Erm, I'm trying to think, I'd say probably by seven o'clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time. Erm, and Dave, we left him playing tennis for a bit longer. Erm, I think we'd bathed the kids by the time he got back, probably ten minutes later. Erm, and then I went for a run that night, after the kids were bathed'.



There is a conflict between the two statements. In 2007 she states she and her mother bathed the kids, while in 2008, she say's her mother and David bathed the kids.
However, in neither statement does she mention walking to Kate's apartment with Kate.


Further on in her 2008 Rogatory, she is asked if she saw Kate run by, while they were on the beach, to which she answers No.
She says she thinks someone else in the party saw her run by.


So, Kate wasn't with them on the beach, sat in a corner wearing a hoodie according to Fiona Payne, and she didn't walk back with Kate.


Mike Marshall has got it wrong.

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by Verdi on 02.08.17 21:24

BlueBag wrote:Mike Marshall screwed up.

He said he didn't come up with anything that wasn't already known then proceeds to show that he didn't read the documents properly or didn't remember them properly.
You have to wonder at this Mike Marshall memorandum - it doesn't appear to relate to anything specific.

Although the implication is there in so far as David Payne is referenced in the same document as the enclosure of the Gaspar statements, the bit about David Payne's reticence to elaborate on his alleged visit to the McCanns can have no connection with a prior holiday taken with the Gaspars and other friends.  If (and that's a very big if) Leicester police were halfheartedly investigating an accusation and/or implication of child sex abuse, they wouldn't identify the name/s of possible offenders - nor would such be deemed to have any connection with Madeleine McCann's disappearance, at least not without further evidence.

So, first question - why are two seemingly separate issues contained within one DC Mike Marshall memorandum?

If international policing protocol is to be taken into consideration, any request by the PJ for information documented within the UK would be by way of rogatory letter - where is that request?  All DC Mike Marshall says is .. "As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar. "  - no mention of a request for information appertaining to the Paynes.  I'm not aware of any direct reference to David Payne's sexual preferences anywhere in the PJ investigation apart from mention of the Gaspar statements.  If international policing protocol was on this occasion thrown to the winds , then the subject is yet another matter for conjecture.  I don't trust Leicestershire Constabulary any further than I can poke them but I think DC Mike Marshall is small fry and has been taken totally out of context.  His words are meaningless without back-up.

Without some sort of explanation or further corroborative evidence, I think this is but a temporary distraction not worthy of particular notice.  Just one vague memorandum from the UK to Ricard Paiva amounts to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If anyone holidaying at the Ocean Club Praia da Luz at the time of Madeleine's disappearance is being investigated in connection with alleged child sex abuse, it will be within their country of origin.  As far as the PJ investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is concerned, there is no direct reference to child sex abuse.

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by Keitei on 02.08.17 22:22

It would appear that a FOI was sent, a question was raised re DC Mike Marshall.

See: http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t18646-foi-answer-from-leicestershire-police


I have written and published a book on the Madeleine McCann disappearance and I wondered if you can confirm a few details about Operation Task?

I understand Operation Task is an ongoing investigation and as such you may be unable to go into much detail. However, my queries are really very simple and I do not believe I am requesting anything that would be considered sensitive.

The rogatory interviews conducted on the McCann’s friends in April 2008 are leaked on the Internet in numerous websites. 
Are the leaked rogatory interviews authentic? 

Were the documents leaked deliberately, and if so, did this result in an internal investigation to discover why or how they were leaked? 

On October 24, 2007, DC Mike Marshall emailed Ricardo Paiva in Portugal with details of a witness statement he took from David and Fiona Payne. This 2-page letter was the frontispiece to 2 witness statements made by the Gaspars on May 16, 2007. In the 2-page letter, DC Marshall mentions a time (17H00) as it being the time that David Payne went to apartment 5A. 

Was this time of 17H00 correct or was it a mistake and should it be 19H00? 

There is an assumption from reading DC Marshall’s letter that David and Fiona Payne made witness statements to Leicestershire Police and those statements—if indeed there were extra statements—appear to be missing from the Portuguese police file released to the public in 2008. Do such "extra" statements exist or was DC Marshall referring to the Payne statements made in Portugal in May 2007? 

Did DC Mike Marshall leave the Leicestershire force and go to Thames Valley Police?


Response – No information provided


A full copy of the above can be found here:


Search Results


[DOC][url=https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/86682/response/220159/attach/4/0001 00221411 Resp 13MADELINE MCCANN REQUESTS 01.DOC.doc]Attachment - WhatDoTheyKnow[/url]


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/.../0001%2000221411%20Resp%2013MADELIN...

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by Phoebe on 02.08.17 23:04

I could accept Mike Marshall mixing up 7 p.m. and 17.00 hrs but that does not explain why David Payne would claim that at the time (whichever one it was) BOTH Kate and Gerry were present during his May 3rd visit to their apartment.

 "I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.   

The Marshall "interview" also states -

 "When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there."


Yet in Payne's 4th May statement (the only one in the files save his rogatory) he makes no reference at all to his activities on the afternoon of May 3rd and only begins his specific description of what occurred that day with dinner at the Tapas Bar. 

 "Concerning yesterday evening, he states that he, his wife and his mother-in-law arrived at the restaurant at around 8.55pm....."


I believe Payne, as the last "independent" witness to see Madeleine alive would surely have been questioned more than once, perhaps informally or perhaps through questionnaire. In  his May 4th interview he never mentions going to the McCanns' apartment. Surely when Gerry later claimed he had sent Payne there the P.J. would have automatically contacted Payne to verify this?(Didn't he remain in Luz for some weeks afterward?) I find it hard to believe they would have waited until the January rogatories to do so. Apart from being able to vouch for how things seemed Chez McCann that evening he might have spotted the "abductor" while approaching or leaving the apartment.
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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by Verdi on 03.08.17 0:33

aquila wrote:It was very easy for the establishment (Jim Gamble) to beat up Leicestershire Police as lead co-ordinators but Leics Constab was chosen and that's another million dollar question.
You can smell a rat at a thousand paces aquila - dead right Leicestershire Constabulary was the 'chosen' one.

As an aside, curious coincidence that, according to public record, Gerry met Clarrie at Leicestershire Constabulary in May 2007 on Gerry McCann's first visit to the UK after the alleged disappearance of Madeleine and latterly ex-Prime Minister Gordon Brown visited Leicestershire Constabulary along with the former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, on some intelligence exercise shortly after the McCanns returned to the UK, having been made arguidos.

Jim Gamble was never far away was he?  The McCann defence league has more sources than any gravy train that ever hit the tracks.
-----

The spokesperson of the McCann family gave a statement, as a witness (under oath...) to Leicestershire Police, on April 28, 2008. Mr. Clarence Mitchell explained he met Gerry McCann on 2007, late May, when Madeleine's father went back to UK for the first time after his daughter disappeared.

According to Mr. Mitchell, it was a circumstantial  meeting at the Leicestershire Police, while he was working at the Consular Assistance Group from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Clarence Mitchell told Leicestershire Police, in his statement, that he was asked to go back to Portugal with Mr. Gerry McCann, where he met his wife, Kate McCann.

-----

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."

Carlos Anjos

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by BlueBag on 03.08.17 6:20

You can't have it both ways.


"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed. 

You would have to prove he read the document carefully.

I don't think he did - he absolutely got Diane Webster wrong and the 24 hour clock seems to confuse him.

As for "Kate and Gerry"..... well are we going for third time lucky?
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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by Verdi on 05.08.17 0:00

Keitei wrote:It would appear that a FOI was sent, a question was raised re DC Mike Marshall.

See: http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t18646-foi-answer-from-leicestershire-police


I have written and published a book on the Madeleine McCann disappearance and I wondered if you can confirm a few details about Operation Task?

I understand Operation Task is an ongoing investigation and as such you may be unable to go into much detail. However, my queries are really very simple and I do not believe I am requesting anything that would be considered sensitive.

The rogatory interviews conducted on the McCann’s friends in April 2008 are leaked on the Internet in numerous websites. 
Are the leaked rogatory interviews authentic? 

Were the documents leaked deliberately, and if so, did this result in an internal investigation to discover why or how they were leaked? 

On October 24, 2007, DC Mike Marshall emailed Ricardo Paiva in Portugal with details of a witness statement he took from David and Fiona Payne. This 2-page letter was the frontispiece to 2 witness statements made by the Gaspars on May 16, 2007. In the 2-page letter, DC Marshall mentions a time (17H00) as it being the time that David Payne went to apartment 5A. 

Was this time of 17H00 correct or was it a mistake and should it be 19H00? 

There is an assumption from reading DC Marshall’s letter that David and Fiona Payne made witness statements to Leicestershire Police and those statements—if indeed there were extra statements—appear to be missing from the Portuguese police file released to the public in 2008. Do such "extra" statements exist or was DC Marshall referring to the Payne statements made in Portugal in May 2007? 

Did DC Mike Marshall leave the Leicestershire force and go to Thames Valley Police?


Response – No information provided


A full copy of the above can be found here:


Search Results








[DOC][url=https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/86682/response/220159/attach/4/0001 00221411 Resp 13MADELINE MCCANN REQUESTS 01.DOC.doc]Attachment - WhatDoTheyKnow[/url]








https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/.../0001%2000221411%20Resp%2013MADELIN...

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This subject is of interest to me - the direct intervention by Leicestershire Constabulary.  Not as I would expect it to be, a coordinating point of contact in the UK to compliment the PJ investigation but more an interfering force operating outside the parameters of international policing protocol.

I can't seem to locate the provenance of the FOI request regarding DC Mike Marshall.  The missingmadeleine forum doesn't specify the source, the Leicester police link thereon doesn't lead anywhere and the 'whatdotheyknow' link is a non-existent page.  I'm guessing it was a long time ago so it would be understandable if the documentation is no longer accessible. 

Maybe it's of no true value as any response would be negative - that much is inevitable with matters concerning Madeleine McCann's alleged disappearance.  I'm trying hard to understand why Leicestershire Constabulary was appointed chef of all things Madeleine McCann when the PJ was/is the primary investigative force.

I wouldn't be alarmed if it wasn't for the fact that they, Leicestershire Constabulary, documented and retained vital information relating (or not as the case may be) to the PJ investigation - some of which was apparently withheld or delayed for a lengthy period before onward transmission to Portugal.  The Gaspar statements being a perfect example - a delay of approximately five months !!!  Even if the information didn't advance the PJ investigation, it should nonetheless have been forwarded to the PJ - not withheld in the UK.

Add to that Jim Gamble - ex of the CEOP, and his questionable direct involvement.  What connection did he have with the UK authority that sanctioned the Leicestershire Constabulary interference?  Clearly he was working for an authority pulling the strings - he was/is the McCanns chief cook and bottle-washer appointed without apparent rime nor reason.  Why he ?!?  Why do so many roads in this sorry saga lead to Ireland?

There doesn't appear to be a valid reason nor excuse to explain why UK police forces were/are actively working in opposition to Portugal - other than the most obvious of course.

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The new videos of Paul statement - man

Post by polyenne on 06.08.17 7:07

I find it difficult to believe that an alleged spontaneous event that occurs in another country at around 10pm on one day elicits the formation of a liaison team from the family's local force the very next day. I'd say that that is unprecedented. It's almost as if they knew it was going to happen.

It's often crossed my mind that this is an elaborate scheme to assess the public/media response to such an event. Or to pave the way for draconian regulation.

A bit like 9/11 ushered in the War on Terror

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@polyenne:  Your post has been moved here.  Please note the McCann Interview Transcripts thread is for reference only.

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Re: The You Tube videos of Paul - Statement man

Post by tessbusthels on 07.10.17 23:37

Leaving the beach they went to the beach restaurant where they fed the children while the adults limited themselves to a few drinks. 

About 18h00 he, ROB and DP went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting GM was already there, with KM and her children watching the match, the rest of the women and children joining them [KM and children] later. MATT OLDFIELD 10/5/2007 You still say kate wasnt at the beach well how come she was watching gerry playing tennis at 18.00 hrs.When she said she never left the apartment after carrying Madeleine back fro high tea . Makes yeah think
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Ref;the Youtube videos

Post by willowthewisp on 08.10.17 18:30

tessbusthels wrote:Leaving the beach they went to the beach restaurant where they fed the children while the adults limited themselves to a few drinks. 

About 18h00 he, ROB and DP went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting GM was already there, with KM and her children watching the match, the rest of the women and children joining them [KM and children] later. MATT OLDFIELD 10/5/2007 You still say kate wasnt at the beach well how come she was watching gerry playing  tennis  at 18.00 hrs.When she said she never left the apartment  after carrying Madeleine  back fro high tea . Makes yeah think
Evening 3 May 2007,statements taken from 17.00hrs?
Catriona Baker and the Twins were with Kate Gerry at Tapas meal,after Gerry retired from tennis with a torn ligament,but it didn't affect the half hour inspections of the children did it,21.05pm,jez wilkens,JT,21.15pm,waiting near apartment gate?
Matt Oldfield,didn't proceed into the Apartment 21.30,in place of Kate's,check?
Russell O'Brien goes to his apartment to look after his Sick daughter,JT,takes his meal back to him in the apartment.
Kate makes her check 22.00(whooshing curtains,slamming of the door,Madeleine has disappeared,leaving the twins in the apartment,who failed to make any noise from all of the commotion within the apartment over the next hour or So,fast a sleep in their Cots,Kate,Fiona checked they were breathing?
So in the apartment are,Kate,Gerry,Fiona,David,Jane,Rachel,Matt,plus staff from the Mark Warner group,Dianne is at the poolside Tapas,Russell with his sick daughter?
At 22.00 hrs an Irish Family the Smiths,identify a person carrying a child towards the Beach area,clothed in Pyjamas,but no foot wear?
Now think very carefully of the sick daughter,who has been attending a Creche all Week and as to what has happened to Madeleine McCann?
Mr Goncalo Amaral quotes an accident?
The Tapas Doctors,Freudian slip,resuscitate a child?
Bathing of children, other peoples children,mentioned on a few occasions,crying incident,when the children were being bathed,tired?
Gasper statements withheld for Five months ,senior Officer dismissed from the case,when his thesis turns to the family involvement?
Kate was in the shower(with the kids)in the apartment,when DP turns up after spotting Kate running from the beach,got permission off Gerry to check on the children,Kate 18.00 hrs?
Kate was on a Run on the Beach,whilst the other Tapas friends were at Pardisio,CCTV 17.30pm?
Catriona Baker signing children in and out of the Creche 17.15-30pm?
Just some of the coincidences in this remarkable case,but No suspects,parents,tapas 7/9?
Three little Angels all attired in white at either,17.00 hrs, 18.30 hrs or at 19.00 hrs,where it is claimed Kate,Gerry and David were all present,Official Police statements,signed and ratified,eh Mr Colin Sutton,Mark Rowley AC of the Metropolitan Police Service?

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