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**NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Verdi on 21.04.17 21:33

@Phoebe wrote:I would be more interested in knowing if she had previously met any of the tapas group at Mark Warner in Greece given that she worked there as a nanny and they holidayed there. If the times coincide it could well be that she knew them and would therefore be prepared to be economical with the truth re creche and what she witnessed that night and encourage other nannies to do the same. I venture to suggest that this might be more likely than guesswork over any link between the McCanns and Cat Baker pre 2007. The only corroborating "evidence " I've seen for this suggestion is the tenuous fact that she is listed as a facebook friend of John Cornor's daughter. This is often put forward yet it's common for people have facebook friends whom they have never met. I ask again, does anyone know if Charlotte was with M.W. in Greece at the same time the Paynes and co. holidayed there.
Apart from facebook, there is compelling evidence that Catriona Baker was known to the McCann or a source close to the family, prior to the holiday in Portugal.   She was allegedly the named carer for Madeleine  during the weeks holiday, her witness statements are dubious as are the creche records documented in the PJ files - Catriona Baker being the administrator of said records.

It was reported that Catriona Baker was seriously traumatised by Madeleine McCann's disappearance - why would a youngster of her age be so affected by an event that happened to a strangers child outside her watch?  Again moving with the McCann version of events, if Madeleine disappeared on Thursday 3rd May 2007, Catriona Baker would only have known her for four days, a few hours (if that) per day - hardly sufficient time to form an attachment or bond!

The McCanns for some inexplicable reason, named Catriona Baker as a key witness to be re-interviewed during the rogatory process.  There can be no logical reason for this for the simple reason that Madeleine ostensibly disappeared sometime on the night of 3rd May 2007 - Catriona Baker was not responsible for her at night (if the various versions are to be believed), so in effect she would be of no assistance - not even as a character witness as, according to her statement, she first met the McCanns on Sunday 29th April 2007.  She can hardly vouch for their characters having only met when signing Madeleine in and out of the creche.

Catriona Baker was invited to the McCanns home in Rothley during the month of November 2007, it was said to be to catch up on how they were - why would it be of interest to her?

Consider that for starters and then take into consideration that Charlotte Pennington is a fantasist with about as much credibility as a Clarence Mitchell.

Where you get your unconvincing argument about the McCanns and their friends having spent time at Warners in Greece, where they might have met with Pennington, is a mystery to me.  Quickly, this is from the groups respective rogatory interviews..

David Payne

Err we'd all, or certainly we'd been on a Mark Warner before, I think Matt and Rachael and Russell and Jane had been on a Mark Warner type holiday and you know so we were looking to go on that type of holiday

"Err I mean as I say, we, we bought into the concept of a group holiday, we bought into the concept of Mark Warner, we'd all you know, apart from Kate and Gerry I don't think they'd done Mark Warner, but you know we'd certainly been on that type of holiday before, and as I you know recall they were the only Mark Warner resort that was open at that time of the year. I don't think Egypt was you know available at that time of year, I don't think err Turkey was available and certainly Greece, so I think at that particular moment in time it was just that Portugal was the only one that opened that early in the season.'

Rachael Oldfield

Dave did erm cos we'd all, we'd all done Mark WARNER holidays before sort of separately, that was the Portuguese holiday was the fourth Mark WARNER holiday that Matt and I had done and we did a couple before Grace was born and then we did one with her, erm and then our September holiday in Greece in two thousand and six, you know was just so good because of all the kids and had a great time, it wasn't Mark WARNER, erm then we decided that it would be good to go as a group again, as again and I think Gerry just kind of said that he had holiday and is anyone interested in going and David said, you know Dave emailed round and erm kind of made the suggestion and then he, he was responsible for organising it'.

Fiona Payne

Okay. Erm, I think the idea had first come about really back, erm, in the previous year. Erm, I'd been on holiday with Dave, erm, and our children, with Matt and Rachael and their child, Grace, and Russ and Jane and their two children and we'd been to Greece for a week. Erm, it wasn't a MARK WARNER, it was, erm, I can't remember which company it was with, but it was a very small holiday, erm, environment, where you sort of had all the....

Matthew Oldfield

We'd been to the Greek one in Lemnos, erm, originally before Grace was born, it was just a last minute deal and it was great, it was all inclusive, we all like sport, erm, and sunshine and, erm, it was sort of all inclusive and it was just a very, erm, sort of relaxing sort of place to go, so we went out there and we were quite keen to do that again because everybody in the group is pretty sporty, erm, and if you have a lot of people together you can share sort of the child care arrangements and its also very relaxing for everybody.

Jane Tanner


Err so David and Fiona came up with the idea of going to Portugal on a Mark Warner holiday err I think most of us had been on a Mark Warner holiday before so err that was just sort of a nice idea to go and then we just thought Portugal, I think we’ve been to ones in Greece before so we thought Portugal would be somewhere, somewhere different for a holiday.”

Hardly conclusive is it?

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.04.17 21:50

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3384000/kate-gerry-mccann-tv-doc-madeleine-disappearance/

MADDIE FURY!

Kate and Gerry McCann ‘angered and upset’ over new Aussie TV doc boasting of ‘major’ breakthrough in Madeleine disappearance
Documentary-makers down under have said they will reveal new evidence in the 'landmark television event' this weekend

By Tracey Kandohla and Ellie Flynn
21st April 2017, 4:14 pm
Updated: 21st April 2017, 6:57 pm

THE TV show which claims a “major” breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann case is under fire for showing old footage of her parents being asked if they killed her.
Documentary-makers in Australia have said they will reveal new evidence in the “landmark television event” this weekend.
An Australian TV crew claim to have unearthed new evidence about Maddie’s disappearance
The documentary-makers said they will reveal the ‘breakthrough’ on Sunday evening
Aussie film crew 'discover new Madeleine McCann lead to be revealed this weekend'
But the show has left her parents, Kate and Gerry, "angered and upset", according to a source close to the couple.
Documentary-makers are now running a 40-second teaser video using a six-year-old clip with journalist Rahni Sadler posing the offensive question.
They are also suggesting in the “landmark television event” they have secured a new interview with Kate and Gerry, which their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said today is “simply not true".
He added: “They are hyping it for all its worth and it’s not worth anything!”
Mr Mitchell hit out at Channel 7’s trailer tactics despite being interviewed himself for the programme to mark the milestone 10th anniversary of Maddie’s disappearance.
The show claims it will reveal new evidence when it’s screened Down Under on Sunday evening.
Long-serving family PR Mr Mitchell hit back at the current affairs show, simply called Sunday Night, saying: “There’s nothing new in it that I’m aware of. I don’t know of new evidence neither do Kate and Gerry."
Kate and Gerry McCann urged the investigators to hand evidence to police
In a teaser video released on Thursday, Channel 7's Sunday Night claims a new line of inquiry could bring the case closer to being solved.
Forensic scientist Dave Barclay will feature on the programme, calling the case "the most baffling" he's ever looked at.
Journalist Rahni Sadler will also speak to the case's lead investigator and criminal profiler.
Maddie's parents Gerry and Kate have urged the filmmakers to hand over any leads to police, the Daily Star reports.
A pal close to the anguished couple said: “It seems cruel for television bosses to be making out Kate and Gerry are on the show and then running old clips of them being asked a hideous question, for shock purposes, about them killing Madeleine.
“This show’s being aired just 10 days before the anniversary and it’s no surprise that Kate and Gerry will be angered and upset. They have stated time and again over the years that they had absolutely nothing to do with their daughter’s abduction.
“To be re-running an old interview they did with the network in 2011 as British police finally launched an investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance is quite hideous.”
Forensic scientist Dave Barclay will feature on the programme
US criminal profiler Pat Brown will also explain he theories
US criminal profiler Pat Brown, who recently insisted that Maddie is “dead” and that her body has been moved to a “desolate location”, will also reportedly discuss elements of the case.
Exact details about the evidence and the upcoming TV show, due to be aired on Channel 7 in Australia, are scarce.
A 40-second teaser video released yesterday claims a new line of inquiry could bring the case closer than ever to being solved.
Interviewers also speak to the former lead investigator Goncalo Amaral.
Amaral is an ex-police officer who led the initial hunt when three-year-old Maddie went missing from the Algarve in 2007.
The now retired detective was removed as head of the investigation after criticising British detectives.
In July 2008, Amaral released a book called “The Truth of the Lie”, which claims the McCanns faked the abduction.
A spokesman for the McCanns asked the documentary-makers to hand over any "credible" evidence to police.
They said: “If the Australian TV show contains any credible, fresh lines of inquiry they should, of course, have been given immediately to the police.”
It comes as the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance nears.
The programme will air on Sunday night at 8.30pm local time (11.30am in the UK)
It is coming up to the tenth anniversary of Maddie's disappearance
Kate and Gerry McCann are desperately trying to keep the search for Madeleine alive
The three-year-old vanished from the holiday apartment she was staying in with her parents and twin siblings in May 2007.
Her parents had left the youngsters sleeping as they ate with pals at a nearby tapas bar, but were regularly going back to check on the kids.
When Kate returned to check on the trio at 10pm that evening, she discovered Madeleine was missing from her bed.
Earlier this week a nanny who was there the night Madeleine McCann vanished claimed the resort was so unsafe she was given a rape alarm – and told not to go anywhere by herself.
Former Policeman Goncalo Amaral is interviewed for the show
Madeleine McCann disappeared during a family holiday to Portugal in May 2007
The Ocean Club worker revealed her fears after a girl had been attacked “the year or so before in Praia da Luz” and said “it didn’t sound like a family resort to me”.
The woman told The Mirror: "We were told, ‘Here’s a rape whistle, don’t go anywhere by yourself, ever.’ There’d been a girl attacked the year or so before in Praia da Luz. It didn’t sound like a family resort to me."
The nanny also recalled Maddie's parents' anguish and insists there is "no way they did it" - revealing Kate was in a "catatonic state" after realising her daughter was gone.
She blamed Portuguese police for a bungling investigation.


Top Comments

Tanequil Smith
9 minutes ago
It's about time this evil pair was arrested and brought before a court.
philippe schotte
18 minutes ago
Dear parents
Proof the world that you are innocent. Simple ... a lie detector and a session under hypnosis and make the results public . In your place I would do it directly !
Terry Curtis
38 minutes ago
@Volcano. Get a grip you mug. I'd tell you and them to their face. If you cared to read Amaral's account you would find it makes perfect sense and what you care to omit is the Irish tourist who saw Gerry McCann carrying Maddie along the street the afternoon of the incident. You obviously know absolutely nothing of the case. The faked break-in (which the McCanns eventually back-tracked on) The cadaver dogs evidence of blood behind the sofa. Their refusal to take a polygraph. Th 48 unanswered questions. The "they've taken her" instead of "Maddie's gone" from the lips of Kate on finding her "missing". The fact they left the kids alone and went to dinner FOR THE SECOND NIGHT in a row and still no Child neglect charge. Before you call people scum learn some facts of the case you moron!
Terry Curtis
49 minutes ago
I don't think the truth will ever come out. It is plainly obvious that there has been a massive cover-up. Why were the British police involved in the first place? They did their utmost to hamper the Portuguese and make them look incompetent. Why were the blood sample tested in England? What a surprise they came back inconclusive. Why was Mr. Smith not sent back to Portugal for a second interview even though he'd agreed to it and why then did Scotland Yard wait months and then send the local Garda to interview him. Tony Blair should be charged with them for the cover up!
Volcano.
1 hour ago
Yep the trolls are out again, they were all there, they saw exactly what happened, they in their armchairs without a braincell between them have read the evidence from newspapers, or a lieing ex coppers book, they have tried them and hung drawn and quartered them, it is an insult to a pile of excrement to call these trolls excrement. If. You employed the services of the worlds top brain surgeon, once he opened up the scull of every troll here he would shrug and say, cant find a brain in any of them. I know this, I would not trust anyone below to babysit my child for one second surrounded by cops, after reading their vile tripe. Scum the lot of you, scum and I would love to say it to your face, scum because you are all to frightened to say it to their faces.
hayley neill
57 minutes ago
I beg to differ. It is you who has no brain cell. You are so fooled by the media and the scummy McCann's that you need to get a grip. They neglected and drugged their children ( admittedly) and yet you condone and defend them. I have to wonder what kind of person you are to condone it. It is your children i worry for because mine will always be safe and not left alone or neglected. You are the scum
hayley neill
50 minutes ago
Also ask yourself why the cadaver dogs who have never been wrong suddenly were or why they never looked for her themselves . Why did they go out playing tennis the next day instead of looking and seeming very happy, too happy for grieving and worried parents. Tell me have you left your children alone in a foreign place too because you obviously have no parenting standards.
Also i would happily tell them to their faces just what i think of them
chiangmai1
1 hour ago
Maybe too close to the truth and the parents are afraid the money train will stop
Chris Rigbh
1 hour ago
"MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH"...
They've confessed.
Summer Rules
1 hour ago
It's time this was put to bed, the parents are monsters who care more about money than their own child.
At some point they will be found out and spend a long time in jail.
I'm so grateful my parents loved me..
paul gregory
1 hour ago
Another day another story
Michael Stankard
1 hour ago
"A source close to the couple" you mean their PR gurus who is managing to generate serious cash for them
Rosey May
1 hour ago
Guilty both of them. They killed her when they O.D her.they would have lost of 3 children that night if it had been a abduction job
kelli kelly
2 hours ago
they are so dodgy!
Iain McGregor
2 hours ago
Hmmm yesterday they were happy with ths so called new evidence, now they are angry, I suspect the programme has went down the road of the Portuguese Police investigation and the Cadavar Dogs results along with two of the crime specialists who have came out and questioned the abduction theory. This show also has their public enemy number 1 Goncalo Amaral appearing in it giving an interview, maybe they do have new evidence or maybe it is something we have always suspected from day one of Maddie's disappearence.
jill wilkinson
2 hours ago
They have never been cleared of involvement in their daughter's disappearance yet still set out demands and wants, they ran the whole circus from the day they faked their daughter's disappearance, the day kate got death scent on her and lied after lie, done own test's, demanded files, sued anyone who got too close to the truth, destroyed Amaral yet forgive abductor (i guess you have to forgive yourself), ive never ever known a case where a child neglecter gets to know everything about their own case, wrote a book of filth and lies for her little ones to read, their assests should be frozen while Amaral sues them, just like they did him, he should put the disgraced mccanns where they put him, homeless and penniless, the mccann circus should never of gone this far, 10 years they have got away with this, it takes 10 years for this nanny to come forward (paid or not) she should be done too, hopefully this film will bring an end to it and kate and gerry can be angered and upset at where they be going, no passing go, go straight to jail, or we will end up watching them on Drs who kill, Murder made us famous or killer couples
should start a re-dig at the mccann's lies, could of saved millions,
walsenni
2 hours ago
This couple claim to be innocent - why then have they not taken a lie detector test - voluntarily or ordered?
Care56
2 hours ago
Dont worry Kate & Gerry your Secrets safe, Rahni was on FB doing ? & Ans session I had tt turn it off after a min as it started on about leaving kids in a HOTEL room & saying lots of her friends said they done it, only you never stayed in a HOTEL & nipped down stairs for a bite to eat & on a bender, You stayed a rented apartment & the Tapas Bar was 120 yds away.
They also forgot someone from your group of friends was on Babysitting duty each night of which the excuse to Police was a Sickness bug.
Rahni also makes excuses for why innocent parents could refuse a Polygraph regardless of not being admissible in a court or it that it would stop the accusations towards you both.
So your lies are safe for now until another mystery witness comes forward & falls on their sword .
What did Maddie sip Boy ? She sipped a Minnesota
It made poor Maddie Di Boy ,she died in Miss-our-I,
Shame that Smithman saw boy, So did Tennessee
1 2 3 4
4yrs from Gerrys eFit appeared on TV?
John Smith
2 hours ago
The sooner they confess the better,
sam mccarthy
3 hours ago
Think too much time has passed now to get these 2 for whatever happened to that little girl.
introduccion atlantida
2 hours ago
@sam mccarthy pareciera que en estos momentos esta en el triangulo el cual sostiene la busqueda en argentina. era muy astuta para una niña de su edad.
josh kellaway
2 hours ago
@introduccion atlantida @sam mccarthy NO YOU CANNOT HAVE THE FALKLANDS BACK, KEEP AWAY FROM GIBRALTAR TOO.
Rosey May
1 hour ago
Lol classic
Robert Mansfield
3 hours ago
They will be angered and upset once the truth eventually comes out.
Pail smith
3 hours ago
I'm disappointed at the sun constantly siding with these monsters and pushing lies out across the country
Geoff Spender
3 hours ago
Did she ever answer those 48 questions put to her by the Portuguese police? Y'know, all those questions she refused to answer.
Mr Sun
3 hours ago
Where's Columbo when you need him He would soon have it sorted
Bull Shite
3 hours ago
Hopefully someone has cracked and blabbed how they covered up their daughters death. I'm sure a McCann believer will be along soon to tell us we are all trolls.
Max Powers
3 hours ago
Bit of a strange reaction by the mcanns surely they would want new evidence to come to light not be angered by it.??
Bull Shite
3 hours ago
@Max Powers Not strange at all, they never react well to sightings or new evidence as they already know what happened.
colin culk
3 hours ago
are they just upset that they didn't get a wad of cash for it? perhaps in future any announcements regarding her should be presented in a big brother eviction style, where they sit there with their hands over their mouths saying "oh my god oh my god" before holding hands for the announcement then coming out to a baying crowd and doing an interview, before selling the story to OK.
hayley neill
3 hours ago
Probably scared they have been sussed out for the killers they are
Bayou Gator
4 hours ago
Tick tick, tick tock.
Paul Andrews
4 hours ago
Hopefully the charade is coming to the end!
FlagShare4
jbird65
4 hours ago
Angry and upset? Terrified that they didn't cover their tracks as well as they thought and that the truth is finally about to come out, is more like it.
Davy Edar
4 hours ago
Oh well I'm sure they will sue them like they sue everyone that has talked about it. Got there own spokesperson for gods sakes mccans practically a brand. Guilty as sin. Poor little girl.

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by pennylane on 21.04.17 22:02

Thanks Jean thumbsup

And so the McCann of worms overflows, and threatens to devour anything and everything that denies its existence!

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by coati mundi on 21.04.17 23:00

"They have stated time and again over the years that they had absolutely nothing to do with their daughter’s abduction."


How could they possibly have had anything to do with "their daughter's abduction"? Surely the only people who could have had anything to do with the supposed abduction would have been those (or which ever individual patsy they can come up with) who carried out that supposed abduction.


Once again, curious language used by the the McC media team if ,indeed, they provided the quote.


Not just an opinion but a question even an average lawyer would ask.

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 21.04.17 23:07

@sallypelt wrote:
Wasn't it Clarence who said Team McCann was planning something with Operation Grange for the 10th Anniversary?

Here it is then.

Is DCI Nicola Wall about to tell us what she's spent all those millions on whilst having another bash at the Portuguese Police?

Unbelievable.
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by tara on 21.04.17 23:12

I only needed to read the headlines : 'shocking police blunders' to know it's another ridiculous fiction. A better headline would read 'Another example of how to effectively use smoke and mirrors on the gullible.' Thank goodness the members on this forum have intelligence and use it. We shall not be moved!
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by sandancer on 21.04.17 23:22

Now which " Top Scotland Yard cop " are​ they referring​ to there has been​ a few​ ?

" Shocking police blunders " did someone​ book​ a 4 star instead of a 5 star on one of their jolies oops sorry one of their​ investigation trips to the beach in Portugal ?

"What May have happened "   Yes May does know a lot more than she will admit​ to !

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.04.17 23:29

@jeanmonroe wrote:https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3384000/kate-gerry-mccann-tv-doc-madeleine-disappearance/

MADDIE FURY!

Kate and Gerry McCann ‘angered and upset’ over new Aussie TV doc boasting of ‘major’ breakthrough in Madeleine disappearance

By Tracey Kandohla and Ellie Flynn
21st April 2017, 4:14 pm


SNIPPED

[Pic] US criminal profiler Pat Brown will also explain her theories

US criminal profiler Pat Brown, who recently insisted that Maddie is “dead” and that her body has been moved to a “desolate location”, will also reportedly discuss elements of the case.


SNIPPED
Tracey Kandohla and the Sun have formally acknowledged - for the very first time I believe - that there is another professional out there who shares the view of Goncalo Amaral and his colleagues that there is a very different alternative theory being purported about what really happened to Madeleine McCann

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Verdi on 21.04.17 23:43

Was Madeleine McCann stolen to order, taken by lone paedo or did she just wander off? The scenarios that could explain her disappearance

Detective Colin Sutton has drawn on his 30 years of policing to compile a list of the five most likely situations


ByPaul Jollands

  • 23:00, 21 APR 2017
  • Updated23:03, 21 APR 2017


There are five possible scenarios that could explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
Colin Sutton has drawn on his 30 years of policing to compile the list.
He says: “Detectives like to put all the scenarios down in a flow chart system.
They then methodically go down each scenario and all the forks and branches that come off them.

“You go down the most likely scenario – the one likely to bring you success more quickly – and may come to a stage where you realise it’s the wrong scenario.

"Then you go back to the beginning and choose the next scenario.
“It’s like a game of snakes and ladders which carries on until you have exhausted all the options.”
The scenarios he came up with include one that she wandered out of apartment 5A by herself and had a fatal accident.
Another possibility is that a paedophile was watching the McCann family and deliberately targeted the youngster.
Here, Colin looks in detail at the five scenarios – and comes up with the most likely explanation for Madeleine’s disappearance.

1 The McCanns or the Tapas Seven

I can understand why the Portuguese police asked questions about the McCanns and the Tapas Seven.
As uncomfortable as it is, the first place I would have started looking is their group.

Without any other information to go on, the most likely scenario when a three-year-old girl disappears into thin air is that someone close to her knows what happened.
However, the police do appear to have decided quite quickly that was the only line of investigation they were going to take.
By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.

2 Targeted kidnap by a trafficking gang

This is the most likely scenario once those closely linked to Madeleine have been ruled out.
This was not the first night that Madeleine and the twins had been left alone. Crucially there was a routine.
If you were watching you would know there were three children in that apartment and the parents were in the tapas restaurant. It would make it easier for abductors to pull it off.
Not only that, but if the Tapas group’s timings are accurate, it gave the abductor a 30-minute slot where they knew they would not be disturbed. Given all the facts we know, it’s the most likely and credible scenario.
A trafficking ring is more likely than a lone paedophile or paedophile ring. Yes there are paedophiles, yes she is a little blonde girl.
But I think six and seven-year-old girls are much more at risk from paedophiles or child abuse rings.
Looking at the trafficking angle, unless the order was specifically for a young blonde girl, why her and not one of the twins?
Babies have less memories than a three-year-old. If Madeleine is alive she will probably remember she had another mother and father and used to live in another house.
No risks of that if you take a baby. More importantly, babies have far less physical identity. They have not developed as a three or four-year-old has.
If you were stealing on spec you would have taken one of the twins. Not both, just one. So it goes back to a specific order for a young blonde girl.
Has a young blonde girl died and their parents want to replace her? Or is there another reason for stealing to order? When you pick it all apart it’s the most likely scenario.

3 She wandered off and had a fatal accident

Looking at it objectively, incidents of children wandering off are much more common than a targeted or non-targeted abduction.
This is also the scenario that police appear to have initially thought the most likely.
However Cuddle Cat is a compelling fly in the ointment with this theory.
If Maddie was as attached to Cuddle Cat as we are led to believe, she would surely have taken it with her if she had wandered on her own out of the apartment.

4 Opportunist abducted her

This is less likely than other scenarios.
The chances of a predatory paedophile just happening across Madeleine and being able to abduct her without being detected are just so remote.
Sarah Payne, right, who was eight (when she was killed by Roy Whiting in 2000), and five-year-old April Jones (who was killed by Mark Bridger in Wales in 2012) are probably the only cases that match something like that.
That shows how rare they are. Then there is the age.
It is uncomfortable to discuss, but most paedophiles are not interested in pre-school-age children. It does happen, but it’s the thin end of the tape. I don’t know of any other opportunistic abduction of a girl so young.

5 Killed as part of a burglary gone wrong

This is extremely unlikely. If you have got a burglar who has gone into the apartment for material theft, the chances are once they find there are kids in there they will run a mile.
Not only are there kids there, but they will assume an adult is also present. Going from stealing laptops, passports, etc, to taking a young child is too big a leap.
You are looking at two different types of criminals, two different types of crimes. It’s the least likely of all the scenarios.
Burglars are commonly drug addicts. They usually want something small, like cameras, tablets or jewellery, which they can easily sell for cash or even swap directly for drugs.
Junkies don’t take three-year-old girls.

  • Anyone with information about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance should call the Find Madeleine investigation line on: 0845 8384699 or email: investigation@findmadeleine.com


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-stolen-order-just-10272346

Surprise Surprise - paving the way for closure, for the Operation Grange 'cop-out'.  Elementary my dear Watson!

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Verdi on 21.04.17 23:53



Detective Colin Sutton

Looking cool after 30 years detecting!

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Phoebe on 22.04.17 0:15

@Verdi wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:I would be more interested in knowing if she had previously met any of the tapas group at Mark Warner in Greece given that she worked there as a nanny and they holidayed there. If the times coincide it could well be that she knew them and would therefore be prepared to be economical with the truth re creche and what she witnessed that night and encourage other nannies to do the same. I venture to suggest that this might be more likely than guesswork over any link between the McCanns and Cat Baker pre 2007. The only corroborating "evidence " I've seen for this suggestion is the tenuous fact that she is listed as a facebook friend of John Cornor's daughter. This is often put forward yet it's common for people have facebook friends whom they have never met. I ask again, does anyone know if Charlotte was with M.W. in Greece at the same time the Paynes and co. holidayed there.
Apart from facebook, there is compelling evidence that Catriona Baker was known to the McCann or a source close to the family, prior to the holiday in Portugal.   She was allegedly the named carer for Madeleine  during the weeks holiday, her witness statements are dubious as are the creche records documented in the PJ files - Catriona Baker being the administrator of said records.

It was reported that Catriona Baker was seriously traumatised by Madeleine McCann's disappearance - why would a youngster of her age be so affected by an event that happened to a strangers child outside her watch?  Again moving with the McCann version of events, if Madeleine disappeared on Thursday 3rd May 2007, Catriona Baker would only have known her for four days, a few hours (if that) per day - hardly sufficient time to form an attachment or bond!

The McCanns for some inexplicable reason, named Catriona Baker as a key witness to be re-interviewed during the rogatory process.  There can be no logical reason for this for the simple reason that Madeleine ostensibly disappeared sometime on the night of 3rd May 2007 - Catriona Baker was not responsible for her at night (if the various versions are to be believed), so in effect she would be of no assistance - not even as a character witness as, according to her statement, she first met the McCanns on Sunday 29th April 2007.  She can hardly vouch for their characters having only met when signing Madeleine in and out of the creche.

Catriona Baker was invited to the McCanns home in Rothley during the month of November 2007, it was said to be to catch up on how they were - why would it be of interest to her?

Consider that for starters and then take into consideration that Charlotte Pennington is a fantasist with about as much credibility as a Clarence Mitchell.

Where you get your unconvincing argument about the McCanns and their friends having spent time at Warners in Greece, where they might have met with Pennington, is a mystery to me.  Quickly, this is from the groups respective rogatory interviews..

David Payne

Err we'd all, or certainly we'd been on a Mark Warner before, I think Matt and Rachael and Russell and Jane had been on a Mark Warner type holiday and you know so we were looking to go on that type of holiday

"Err I mean as I say, we, we bought into the concept of a group holiday, we bought into the concept of Mark Warner, we'd all you know, apart from Kate and Gerry I don't think they'd done Mark Warner, but you know we'd certainly been on that type of holiday before, and as I you know recall they were the only Mark Warner resort that was open at that time of the year. I don't think Egypt was you know available at that time of year, I don't think err Turkey was available and certainly Greece, so I think at that particular moment in time it was just that Portugal was the only one that opened that early in the season.'

Rachael Oldfield

Dave did erm cos we'd all, we'd all done Mark WARNER holidays before sort of separately, that was the Portuguese holiday was the fourth Mark WARNER holiday that Matt and I had done and we did a couple before Grace was born and then we did one with her, erm and then our September holiday in Greece in two thousand and six, you know was just so good because of all the kids and had a great time, it wasn't Mark WARNER, erm then we decided that it would be good to go as a group again, as again and I think Gerry just kind of said that he had holiday and is anyone interested in going and David said, you know Dave emailed round and erm kind of made the suggestion and then he, he was responsible for organising it'.

Fiona Payne

Okay. Erm, I think the idea had first come about really back, erm, in the previous year. Erm, I'd been on holiday with Dave, erm, and our children, with Matt and Rachael and their child, Grace, and Russ and Jane and their two children and we'd been to Greece for a week. Erm, it wasn't a MARK WARNER, it was, erm, I can't remember which company it was with, but it was a very small holiday, erm, environment, where you sort of had all the....

Matthew Oldfield

We'd been to the Greek one in Lemnos, erm, originally before Grace was born, it was just a last minute deal and it was great, it was all inclusive, we all like sport, erm, and sunshine and, erm, it was sort of all inclusive and it was just a very, erm, sort of relaxing sort of place to go, so we went out there and we were quite keen to do that again because everybody in the group is pretty sporty, erm, and if you have a lot of people together you can share sort of the child care arrangements and its also very relaxing for everybody.

Jane Tanner


Err so David and Fiona came up with the idea of going to Portugal on a Mark Warner holiday err I think most of us had been on a Mark Warner holiday before so err that was just sort of a nice idea to go and then we just thought Portugal, I think we’ve been to ones in Greece before so we thought Portugal would be somewhere, somewhere different for a holiday.”

Hardly conclusive is it?



From Matthew Oldfield's rogatory statement. 


 
Dave and Fiona, I think they'd already been on holiday with Gerry and Kate on another occasion, they wanted to involve them in the group and we ended up going for a MARK WARNER complex in Portugal. Erm, that was, erm, we'd been to, as I say, some of us had been to MARK WARNER, erm, various MARK WARNER resorts before, we'd been to the Greek one in Lemnos, erm, originally before Grace was born, it was just a last minute deal and it was great, it was all inclusive, we all like sport, erm, and sunshine and, erm, it was sort of all inclusive and it was just a very, erm, sort of relaxing sort of place to go, so we went out there and we were quite keen to do that again because everybody in the group is pretty sporty, erm, and if you have a lot of people together you can share sort of the child care arrangements and its also very relaxing for everybody.


This reads clearly to me that they had indeed been at Mark Warner in Greece. The very fact that others are careful to stress that they didn't think the Greek holiday had been in M.W. raises my suspicions. Why should they stress this? The line of questioning seemed to be seeking merely to establish how well the Tapas 9 knew each other.  Other than telling me that Cat. Baker claimed to have been traumatised by Madeleines disappearance (and what else would she say?) I see no actual evidence that she was known to the McCanns prior to May '07) I believe she did (perhaps not alone) alter the creche records and her statements clearly show her contradictions. Why she condoned this is open to interpretation and is not proof that she had previously known the McCanns. Was everyone else who also lied for them previously known to them? She visited them in Rothley after the event, when she was already up to her neck in it. I believe that the fact that she and Charlotte were both swiftly sent elsewhere by M.W. indicates that there was anxiety to remove both of them from more questioning.
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Verdi on 22.04.17 0:18

Snipped from an interview with retired police officer Colin Sutton..


Q.  How have advancements in forensics and psychology changed police investigations?

A.  There is no doubt that DNA, and the ever-increasing sensitivity of tests for it, have made most serious crimes easier to solve. In many cases it will give irrefutable proof of presence, and therefore of guilt. But it has made some detectives over-reliant upon it, and this was very evident in Delroy Grant’s case. Psychology has helped interviewing officers, and an understanding of the criminal to a degree. However offender profiling is very rarely as successful or impactful in reality as it is portrayed in fiction.

Q.  Are there any unsolved cases across the world that you would be interested in tackling?

A.  Not now, I am too happy being retired! But had the Madeline McCann review come my way before retirement I would have stayed to complete that; it is the greatest mystery of our generation, and despite its obvious difficulty I would have been unable to resist the opportunity to try to help solve it.

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/shows/evil-up-close/articles/interview-with-colin-sutton

As a detective with 30 years experience under his belt, I'm surprised his summation of the case featured in the 'intelligent tabloid' makes no mention of forensics and specialist dogs.

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by coati mundi on 22.04.17 0:54

'Targeted by trafficking gang'
"This is the most likely scenario once those closely linked to Madeleine have been ruled out.
This was not the first night that Madeleine and the twins had been left alone. Crucially there was a routine.
If you were watching you would know there were three children in that apartment and the parents were in the tapas restaurant. It would make it easier for abductors to pull it off."



A  few questions about this:


If a "gang"  was hanging around and observing, where were they staying at the time? Has anyone checked all the rentals in the area at the time? Was this "gang" not staying in PDL, but were they just coming in at times to stake out the place? 


There were,supposedly, other children left alone at night. What was it about a particular family and only one of their children that drew the attention of the "gang?"


Also, a question asked by many on this forum before, why choose to take the potentially most difficult one and not the
younger two who, by the account of any witness who was there, were semi-comatose?


The questions could go on and on. The problem is that the fools and posers who spout this nonsense are not called into question by sloppy and dishonourable so-called journalists.


Annoying that such nonsense can go unchallenged. I won't even say IMO, because anyone with a modicum of sense would ask these questions.


He does, though, give us a good insight into "responsible parenting" :


If you were watching you would know there were three children in that apartment and the parents were in the tapas restaurant. It would make it easier for abductors to pull it off."

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Verdi on 22.04.17 1:03

I can't comment on Nigel Moore of mccannfiles being a logical researcher because I don't understand what that means, I can however repeat his pearl of wisdom concerning the machinations of one Charlotte Pennington - the fantasist.  Nigel Moore seldom opined on the case of Madeleine McCann at mccannfiles but this is one occasion where he excelled by probing the many contradictions presented by Charlotte Pennington - the fantasist..

A closer look at Charlotte Pennington

Nigel Moore
31 January 2008

Charlotte Pennington, who was employed as a nanny at the Mark Warner Ocean Club at the time of Madeleine's disappearance, would appear to be blessed with an uncanny knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Although, from Kate and Gerry McCanns' perspective, it could be said that the opposite is true. As if by magic, Pennington appears with a 'sighting' at just the right time to support the McCanns' theories on what happened that fateful night of May 3rd.

 The fact that she claims to have worked as a fairy since the age of 14 may go some way to explaining her remarkable abilities.

 So, what did she see?

She says was there with Madeleine at the kid's club on 03 May 2007, the day of Maddie's disappearance. Thus providing herself as an 'independent' witness to the fact that Madeleine was still alive on 03 May 2007.

She was there, inside the McCanns' apartment, within five minutes of the alarm being raised, and claims to have witnessed both Kate McCanns' emotional state and the words spoken. Thus supporting the belief that this was the time of the abduction and that Kate could not have acted that amount of grief.

She was there to see Robert Murat hanging around the Ocean Club. Thus supporting the McCanns', particularly Kate's, desire to imply that Murat was involved in some way. It was reported, on 27 January 2008, that they believe he may have acted as a 'look-out' for a gang of paedophiles.

She was there to see Robert Murat speaking with a suspicious looking man, the following day at the local supermarket, who now appears to match the description and artist's impression produced for Gail Cooper's 'Creepyman'. Thus further connecting Murat with an 'abduction'.

 And, finally, she was there to see a suspicious man kicking something in a boat, 2 days after Madeleine's disappearance. Thus supporting one of the McCanns' theories that the abductor escaped by water - probably to Morocco.

 But do Charlotte Pennington's crucial testimonies stand up to scrutiny? Unfortunately, like a great deal of this case, they are riddled with inconsistencies.

 Pennington, who also works as a part-time actress - having briefly played the part of Libby Bailey in the New Zealand soap 'Shortland Street' - would be familiar with the need to arrive on cue.

 But then, as we all know, sometimes actors get their lines wrong...

 Time with Madeleine on 03 May 2007
 
The Daily Mail published details of an interview with Miss Pennington on 25 September 2007, in which she dismissed claims that the McCanns were not seen for six hours leading up to Madeleine's disappearance.

She said: "I was helping give the children high tea. The twins were there and Madeleine and both parents.

"It was supposed to finish at 5.30pm but because they were a big group and really social, it didn't finish until about 6pm. There was nothing out of the ordinary at all."

However, speaking on the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary 'Searching For Madeleine', aired on 18 October 2007, she says:

"On May the third, it was just Madeleine I was reading a story to. I later saw them around lunchtime. That's the last time I saw them together as a family."

So, which is true? Did she last see Madeleine and the McCanns at 6.00pm or at lunchtime? And why the discrepancy?

The Daily Mail report of 14 October 2007, reporting on Madeleine's movements at the kid's club, only mentions nanny Catriona Baker being with her that day. The report states that Maddie was placed in a small group of children between the ages of 3 and 5 years with Miss Baker.

Charlotte Pennington was employed as a nanny in the Ocean Club resort's Baby Club, looking after children aged four to 12 months. So, why would she have been looking after Madeleine, who was not a member of her Baby Club, and reading her a story that particular day?

Pennington describes how she heard of Madeleine's disappearance from a woman who had come to collect her child from the evening creche, where she was working. The woman had recounted to her how she had just bumped into a man who had been shouting a name.

Pennington continues: "She didn't get the name, but she said it sounded something like 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie'. We automatically went into lost-child procedure. In these situations, the first thing we do is investigate the scene.

"We knew that one of the other nanny's charges was called Maddie. We told the head of department what had happened and she took us straight to the apartment.''

Here Miss Pennington clearly states that Madeleine was 'one of the other nanny's charges', referring to Catriona Baker. Yet she says in her two previous statements that she was with Madeleine that day. If that was true, why didn't she automatically make the connection that this was 'Maddie', the girl she had read a story to that very day and had been with until 6.00pm when the McCanns arrived to collect her and the twins?

In the Dispatches documentary, Pennington says: ''They were a very social group and they seemed all to be really respectful, nice, loving parents. Madeleine, I found out to be, quite bright... errm, quite shy... errm, very sweet, very beautiful girl.''

The statement suggests an intimate knowledge of the McCanns and, more specifically, Madeleine. Yet, it appears, Pennington was unable to connect the names 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie' to herself and Madeleine.

This would seem to imply that Pennington never actually had charge of Madeleine on any day and, therefore, did not know her at all, apart from her name being connected to the charge of another nanny.

So where does her intimate knowledge of Madeleine's personality come from?

And why is she making strong implications that Madeleine was in her charge when she clearly wasn't?
 
The moments after Madeleine disappeared

 Talking from her mother's home in Leatherhead, Surrey, she told the Daily Mail: "I was in the apartment less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone. When we were coming out we saw Kate and she was screaming: 'They've taken her, they've taken her!'

"I was standing right in front of her outside the apartment's back door, in the alleyway. I was very close to her. It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. I was one of three Mark Warner staff who saw her shouting it. They have all given statements to the Portuguese police saying that."

In terms of the timeline, this is a very interesting quote. She says she was in the McCanns apartment ''less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone''.

She said previously that the woman who came to collect her child from the evening creche, from whom she first found out a child was missing, arrived just before 10.00pm.

So, by the time the woman reached the creche, according to Pennington's account, a chain of events had already taken place:

Kate had discovered Madeleine missing; she had searched the apartment herself; she had run to the tapas restaurant to raise the alarm with Gerry and their friends and she had returned to the apartment and waited for it to be thoroughly searched by Gerry and their friends.
 
There would then have been a passage of time before the man, presumably Gerry, had gone out into the streets shouting out Maddie's name (which incidentally, the McCanns have insisted they never called her - it was always 'Madeleine').

And then, finally, there would have been a pasage of time for the woman to arrive at the creche, collect her child and then tell the staff what she had heard outside.

That whole process would surely have taken longer than five minutes to complete, and finish, before 10.00pm. Pennington's statement suggests the alarm was actually raised sometime well before 10:00pm, but this would then have major repercussions on the McCanns stated timeline. Indeed, it would make the raising of the alarm at 9:30pm, as was stated in some early reports, seem much more likely.
 
Pennington's account of entering and leaving the apartment is also confusing in relation to her position and Kate's. She says at first that ''When we were coming out (of the apartment) we saw Kate and she was screaming 'They've taken her'.'' This seems odd because it appears to imply that Kate was outside the apartment - possibly just outside the patio doors. But why was Kate outside the apartment screaming 'They've taken her' when everyone else was inside?

Pennington continues: ''I was standing right in front of her outside the apartment's back door, in the alleyway. I was very close to her. It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. I was one of three Mark Warner staff who saw her shouting it.''

So where was Pennington when Kate was screaming? Was she just coming out of the apartment and presumably beside Kate or was she standing in the alleyway with three other members of the Mark Warner staff?

Pennington's account on the Dispatches documentary does not make it any clearer. She says: ''I went straight round to the apartment. I sort of walked in, did a quick scan around and been told 'No, no, she's not here, she's not here'.

''Kate McCann was outside and she was very distressed. She was saying things like 'They've taken her' and 'She's gone' and 'Where is she? Where is she?'.''

One wonders, by this time, to whom Kate was talking, or screaming.

And for who's benefit.

But there is one more crucial sentence from Miss Pennington that poses a huge and shocking question mark over our understanding of the events of that evening.

She says: "There were no children in the room. The twins had been taken out already, I think by one of the McCanns' friends.''
Remember, Pennington ''was in the apartment less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone.''

So where were the twins?

By 10:50pm, we know the twins were back in their cots as the first local GNR police officers attending the scene remarked on how strange it was that the twins did not wake during all the commotion and screaming.

So, it begs the question: Why were the twins not there when Pennington arrived in the apartment?

If Pennington's statement is correct, then it leaves three possible scenarios:

1) The twins were moved out of the apartment, in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance, and then returned to their cots later. If so, why were they removed? And where did they go and who moved them?

2) The twins were moved prior to Kate's alarm call, perhaps because they wanted to clean the bedroom and were then returned to the McCanns' apartment before the GNR arrived? If this were true, where did they go and who moved them?

3) The twins were never put to bed in the McCanns' apartment that night. They either regularly slept elsewhere on the holiday or they slept elsewhere on that particular night and were transferred back before the GNR arrived. But why would they be sleeping elsewhere? And again, where did they go and who moved them?

If the twins were not in the apartment, this would certainly explain Kate's decision to run back to the tapas restaurant, apparently abandoning the twins alone in the unlocked apartment.
 
However, if Pennington's statement is correct, and we are to believe the twins were moved in this way, then it would now seem even more extraordinary that the twins did not wake.

And the implication of that appears to be obvious.
 
Sighting of Robert Murat
 
Miss Pennington's Daily Mail interview confirms reports from the McCanns' friends that Murat was at the scene. "He was outside the lobby just before we started on our big search," she said.

"He was adamant that he wasn't there. But he was. He was there in the road, he was just looking. It was about 10.30. He was just watching.

"I didn't know his name then. But the next day he was our interpreter and I met him then. He didn't take part in the searches, but he was there."

It is difficult to understand how Pennington can so clearly identify Robert Murat - a man she admits she did not know previously - in a chaotic scene where, by all accounts, there were people all over the place. A 'big search' implies there were lots of people there and this was night time, under street lamps that do not appear to be very powerful.

Can she really be sure this was Murat and not David Payne? The Payne's reportedly left their two children in the kid's club, with Madeleine and the twins, under the charge of Catriona Baker. So, it is quite likely that Pennington had never met David Payne previously either.

The Sun further confuses the account when it reports: 'Charlotte said she saw him (Murat) near the McCanns’ holiday flat at around midnight. Yesterday it was claimed police used Murat as a translator — giving him access to the crime scene — as he was a long-time informant.'

This account, which does not come with a direct quote, does, however, appear to be sourced directly from Miss Pennington. Yet, it clearly contradicts her previous statement that she saw Murat at 10:30pm, in the street outside the lobby, just before they were about to launch their 'big search'.

So, where did Pennington see Murat? Outside the McCanns apartment at midnight or outside the lobby at 10:30pm?

The two diverse accounts surely cast a major doubt over Pennington's testimony.

Murat, the suspicious looking man and 'Creepyman'

A few days after Madeleine's disappearance, Charlotte Pennington reported seeing Robert Murat chatting to a man outside the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz.

Initially, the sighting was used to further imply that Robert Murat was involved in some way. It was suggested that this man fitted the description given by Jane Tanner of a man she allegedly saw walking 'urgently' away from the McCanns' apartment on the night of 03 May 2007.

On 20 January 2007, the McCanns' released an artist's impression of a man Gail Cooper allegedly saw acting in a 'creepy' way during the weeks before the McCanns arrived in Praia da Luz. Suddenly, Pennington's 'sighting' was dug up, brushed off and represented to the public as a crucial piece of crucial, long-lost information.
 
In the space of 24 hours, the man who Murat was chatting to had suddenly been transformed from Jane Tanner's 'abductor' into Gail Cooper's 'Creepyman'.

Firstly, the Daily Mail reports that: 'Charlotte Pennington, a nanny at the Ocean Club holiday complex where the McCanns were staying, told police last May she saw Murat chatting to "a man aged around 27 to 35, average height, very dark eyes and of Portuguese or Spanish appearance".

She told detectives she saw expat Murat, who lives with his mother near to holiday complex, talking to the man outside the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz.'

The following day, the Daily Mail makes a stronger connection when it reports that: 'Nanny Charlotte Pennington's description of a person she saw with Mr Murat also matches the man shown in the artist's impression.'

Later, The Sun, appearing to run a direct quote from Pennington, pushes the connection further, when it reports: 'And Charlotte Pennington, a nanny at the McCanns' holiday complex, says a suspicious man she saw in Praia da Luz was "similar" to the drawing.'

So, in what way is Pennington's sighting ''similar'' to the description and artist's impression of Gail Cooper's 'Creepyman'?
Pennington describes a man ''between 27 and 35, with medium build, very dark eyes and a Portuguese or Spanish look''.

Cooper, in describing 'Creepyman', says: "This man was very unpleasant and creepy. I'd put his age at 38 to 45. He was very scruffy and had a 70s-style black Mexican moustache. He wasn't Portuguese—I think he was North African, either Tunisian or Moroccan."
 
So, in what possible way could these two men possibly be described as ''similar''?

From the two descriptions, they have absolutely nothing in common whatsoever.

Yet newspapers, or perhaps more pertinently Metodo 3, seem intent on connecting the two. Newspapers will run with it because it's a good angle and will sell papers, Metodo 3 because that is what they are being paid by the McCanns to do. They have an agenda.

And that agenda is to propagate the abduction theory to the exclusion of all others.
 
The sighting of the boatman

Two days after Madeleine's disappearance, Miss Pennington claims to have seen a mystery boatman kicking at something in the middle of the night.

Pennington said she spotted the man in a small dinghy, just off the Praia da Luz seafront, kicking at an object stored in the boat's hull.

The Daily Mail continues: 'When she moved closer to investigate, the man - whose name she has given to Portuguese and British police - stooped out of sight then hurriedly rowed away. Miss Pennington said the man was wearing a reflective yellow jacket with a hood but she could not make out his face.'

So, what are the concerns here?

Firstly, the report says Pennington spotted the man in a 'small dinghy'. However, the very next sentence describes a 'boat' which was apparently big enough to store a reasonable size object in its hull.

Secondly, one wonders why a person, who it is implied may have had Madeleine stored alive, or dead, in a box in his dinghy/boat, would choose to wear a bright yellow, reflective fisherman's jacket.

Thirdly, the sighting took place 'in the middle of the night' when the seafront is pitch black. Those people searching for Madeleine, on the night of 03 May 2007, have described how they could only see as far as their torches shone and it was actually quite a frightening experience.

So, how could Pennington see anything, let alone a man apparently some distance away that she had to move closer to try and see.

And what was Pennington doing in the middle of the night, in the pitch black on the seafront? Did she have a torch?
Fourthly, Pennington admits she did not see the man's face and that he stooped down and quickly rowed away. So, how could she possibly know who he was, in order to give his name to the police?

The first published reports of the sighting claimed that Pennington was shocked to see the man again the next day, still wearing his bright yellow, reflective fisherman's jacket. She claims that she recognised the man as someone 'whom she had come to know over the preceding week'. But how? How can she recognise and name a man just from a jacket, seen from distance, in the pitch dark?

It should be remembered that Praia da Luz is a small fishing village and the sight of a fisherman's jacket, in such a setting, would surely not be unusual. In fact, it would be a surprise if it wasn't commonplace.

THE END!

What a tangled web she weaves!

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by plebgate on 22.04.17 6:25

All these ex cops who choose to give us the benefit of their many years experience always seem to forget to comment on the two dogs.   Woof woof.

Targeted by a gang who may or may not have done a dry run the night before and may or may not have been hiding in the flat whilst Mr. was standing over his children thinking how lucky he was blah blah.

Wasn't it a British police officer who said that because of the inconsistencies in his statement that Mr. should be questioned again?  

Is it any wonder the Portugese police had their doubts from the off - changing statements to the police is always bound to raise concern and 30 years experience or not this cop should imo have commented on that.

Rocky has won, there can be no doubt about it and all the spouting off about this, that and the other aint going to change that.

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 22.04.17 7:08

@Verdi wrote:Was Madeleine McCann stolen to order, taken by lone paedo or did she just wander off? The scenarios that could explain her disappearance

Detective Colin Sutton has drawn on his 30 years of policing to compile a list of the five most likely situations






ByPaul Jollands

  • 23:00, 21 APR 2017
  • Updated23:03, 21 APR 2017


There are five possible scenarios that could explain Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
Colin Sutton has drawn on his 30 years of policing to compile the list.
He says: “Detectives like to put all the scenarios down in a flow chart system.
They then methodically go down each scenario and all the forks and branches that come off them.

“You go down the most likely scenario – the one likely to bring you success more quickly – and may come to a stage where you realise it’s the wrong scenario.

"Then you go back to the beginning and choose the next scenario.
“It’s like a game of snakes and ladders which carries on until you have exhausted all the options.”
The scenarios he came up with include one that she wandered out of apartment 5A by herself and had a fatal accident.
Another possibility is that a paedophile was watching the McCann family and deliberately targeted the youngster.
Here, Colin looks in detail at the five scenarios – and comes up with the most likely explanation for Madeleine’s disappearance.

1 The McCanns or the Tapas Seven






I can understand why the Portuguese police asked questions about the McCanns and the Tapas Seven.
As uncomfortable as it is, the first place I would have started looking is their group.

Without any other information to go on, the most likely scenario when a three-year-old girl disappears into thin air is that someone close to her knows what happened.
However, the police do appear to have decided quite quickly that was the only line of investigation they were going to take.
By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.

2 Targeted kidnap by a trafficking gang






This is the most likely scenario once those closely linked to Madeleine have been ruled out.
This was not the first night that Madeleine and the twins had been left alone. Crucially there was a routine.
If you were watching you would know there were three children in that apartment and the parents were in the tapas restaurant. It would make it easier for abductors to pull it off.
Not only that, but if the Tapas group’s timings are accurate, it gave the abductor a 30-minute slot where they knew they would not be disturbed. Given all the facts we know, it’s the most likely and credible scenario.
A trafficking ring is more likely than a lone paedophile or paedophile ring. Yes there are paedophiles, yes she is a little blonde girl.
But I think six and seven-year-old girls are much more at risk from paedophiles or child abuse rings.
Looking at the trafficking angle, unless the order was specifically for a young blonde girl, why her and not one of the twins?
Babies have less memories than a three-year-old. If Madeleine is alive she will probably remember she had another mother and father and used to live in another house.
No risks of that if you take a baby. More importantly, babies have far less physical identity. They have not developed as a three or four-year-old has.
If you were stealing on spec you would have taken one of the twins. Not both, just one. So it goes back to a specific order for a young blonde girl.
Has a young blonde girl died and their parents want to replace her? Or is there another reason for stealing to order? When you pick it all apart it’s the most likely scenario.

3 She wandered off and had a fatal accident






Looking at it objectively, incidents of children wandering off are much more common than a targeted or non-targeted abduction.
This is also the scenario that police appear to have initially thought the most likely.
However Cuddle Cat is a compelling fly in the ointment with this theory.
If Maddie was as attached to Cuddle Cat as we are led to believe, she would surely have taken it with her if she had wandered on her own out of the apartment.

4 Opportunist abducted her






This is less likely than other scenarios.
The chances of a predatory paedophile just happening across Madeleine and being able to abduct her without being detected are just so remote.
Sarah Payne, right, who was eight (when she was killed by Roy Whiting in 2000), and five-year-old April Jones (who was killed by Mark Bridger in Wales in 2012) are probably the only cases that match something like that.
That shows how rare they are. Then there is the age.
It is uncomfortable to discuss, but most paedophiles are not interested in pre-school-age children. It does happen, but it’s the thin end of the tape. I don’t know of any other opportunistic abduction of a girl so young.

5 Killed as part of a burglary gone wrong






This is extremely unlikely. If you have got a burglar who has gone into the apartment for material theft, the chances are once they find there are kids in there they will run a mile.
Not only are there kids there, but they will assume an adult is also present. Going from stealing laptops, passports, etc, to taking a young child is too big a leap.
You are looking at two different types of criminals, two different types of crimes. It’s the least likely of all the scenarios.
Burglars are commonly drug addicts. They usually want something small, like cameras, tablets or jewellery, which they can easily sell for cash or even swap directly for drugs.
Junkies don’t take three-year-old girls.

  • Anyone with information about Madeleine McCann’s disappearance should call the Find Madeleine investigation line on: 0845 8384699 or email: investigation@findmadeleine.com


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-stolen-order-just-10272346

Surprise Surprise - paving the way for closure, for the Operation Grange 'cop-out'.  Elementary my dear Watson!




This is the same ex Detective Chief Inspector who started following me on twitter a couple of weeks ago and registered here as a member.

I sent him a direct message on twitter giving him the link to Peter's e-book and asked him if he had an opinion on the Maddie case and that was the reply he sent me. He spent many hours on the forum and the blog.

I didn't realise he meant going to the media "to take part in the discussions" and then come up with that load of crap.

I had high hopes that he joined here to help Maddie, but obviously he's got a living to earn sad
How many more ex Top Cops are going to tarnish their reputations by jumping on the McCann bandwagon?

I guess the clue was in his twitter bio all along - he's a crime commentator. https://twitter.com/colinsutton

http://colinsutton.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.colinsutton.com/csi/home.htm

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/shows/evil-up-close/articles/interview-with-colin-sutton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSm-gcl2hc - talking about Corrie McKeague "It's increasingly difficult to disappear without leaving a footprint...the sad truth is that the longer this goes on then the less chance there is of him being found alive"



Oh well Maddie, you win some, you lose some - despite all these top cops selling their souls to your parents and the newspapers, at least you've still got retired Police Superintendent PeterMac fighting your corner for FREE.

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Captain_Pugwash on 22.04.17 8:12

@Verdi wrote:

Detective Colin Sutton

Looking cool after 30 years detecting!
Another "big boy" of investigation. What spin are you going to spout about him clarrie?
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by plebgate on 22.04.17 8:15

Excellent post Getem.   Yay for PeterM (again).

Also a yay for Sharonl - she has made some good points in her posts this week imo and seldom gets a mention for her input.  Yay.

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Post by Captain_Pugwash on 22.04.17 8:16

The McCanns themselves have put out the only 3 outcomes of this, it just depends upon which 1 a lie detector will pick up.
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 22.04.17 8:17

@plebgate wrote:Excellent post Getem.   Yay for PeterM (again).

Also a yay for Sharonl - she has made some good points in her posts this week imo and seldom gets a mention for her input.  Yay.
Sharonl is like a quiet but deadly assassin! big grin

But now I feel a post coming on for my Abuse of Power blog about our Colin.

Cover me...I'm going in !
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.04.17 8:31

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Was Madeleine McCann stolen to order, taken by lone paedo or did she just wander off? The scenarios that could explain her disappearance

Detective Colin Sutton has drawn on his 30 years of policing to compile a list of the five most likely situations


2 Targeted kidnap by a trafficking gang


This is the most likely scenario once those closely linked to Madeleine have been ruled out.
This was not the first night that Madeleine and the twins had been left alone. Crucially there was a routine. If you were watching you would know there were three children in that apartment and the parents were in the Tapas restaurant. It would make it easier for abductors to pull it off. Not only that, but if the Tapas group’s timings are accurate...

REST SNIPPED





This is the same ex Detective Chief Inspector who started following me on twitter a couple of weeks ago and registered here as a member.

I sent him a direct message on twitter giving him the link to Peter's e-book and asked him if he had an opinion on the Maddie case and that was the reply he sent me. He spent many hours on the forum and the blog.

I didn't realise he meant going to the media "to take part in the discussions" and then come up with that load of crap.

I had high hopes that he joined here to help Maddie, but obviously he's got a living to earn sad
How many more ex Top Cops are going to tarnish their reputations by jumping on the McCann bandwagon?

I guess the clue was in his twitter bio all along - he's a crime commentator. https://twitter.com/colinsutton

http://colinsutton.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.colinsutton.com/csi/home.htm

http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk/shows/evil-up-close/articles/interview-with-colin-sutton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSm-gcl2hc - talking about Corrie McKeague "It's increasingly difficult to disappear without leaving a footprint...the sad truth is that the longer this goes on then the less chance there is of him being found alive"



Oh well Maddie, you win some, you lose some - despite all these top cops selling their souls to your parents and the newspapers, at least you've still got retired Police Superintendent PeterMac fighting your corner for FREE.

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I'm very glad you posted that, @ Get'emGoncalo.

As a Mod, Admin informs us from time to time of things that we can't reveal on the forum.

So let me just add to what she has said by informing members and guests that Sutton joined here on 8 April and immediately logged on for a continuous period of 23 hours, 11 miutes and 53 seconds during which he spent the majority of the time reading PeterMc's e-book.

Thus this pathetic excuse for a 'detective' has absolutely no excuse for what he has written.

Clearly, the Daily Mirror editor commissioned him a few weeks ago to write a piece for him and no doubt the editor's instructions were something like: "Make sure it fully backs up the McCanns' story and Operation Grange - and make it as convincing as you can".

Rarely were the words used by 'Get'emGoncalo' "sold his soul" more appropriate. He will no doubt enjoy his ill-gotten gains, and dine out a few times on his 30 pieces of silver.

But his conscience will get to him. In his heart of hearts, he must know the strength and force of what PeterMac has written, and I predict that what he has written will become a continuing curse for him. His own soul and conscience will keep telling him that he has done wrong - and all for his tacky 30 pieces of silver.

Sutton's last visit to the forum was on Thursday. He has made no posts. He made a pretence of being geninely interested in the case. One more ex-detective willing to sell his soul.

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 22.04.17 8:49

This is the post on my Abuse of Power blog that is now on facebewk, twitter and Google+

Betrayal of Madeleine McCann: Ex Detective Chief Inspector Colin Sutton jumps on Prime Suspects Kate and Gerry McCann's bandwagon to discredit the truth of Maddie's death




http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/betrayal-of-madeleine-mccann-ex.html
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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by plebgate on 22.04.17 9:06

PeterM outranked him in the Police Force and outranks him now imo.

Some super sleuth - didn't mention the dogs even.

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Re: **NEW** Daily Mirrors, 18, 21 & 22 Apr - EX-DETECTIVE COLIN SUTTON IS ACTIVELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS THREAD (was: Daily Mirror, 18 Apr 2017 "What REALLY happened the night Madeleine disappeared")

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 22.04.17 9:08

@plebgate wrote:PeterM outranked him in the Police Force and outranks him now imo.

Some super sleuth - didn't mention the dogs even.
Of course he didn't mention the dogs.

He's a pro-McCann ex Detective Chief Inspector.

Poor Maddie to have all these people betraying her.
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