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David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by Verdi on 03.05.17 1:01

@liars a to e wrote:Also worth noting is that in the Truth of the lie the white angels description is mentioned which means that either Amaral had access to the rogatory interviews or DP had already made a statement with the white angelic children described in it. A statement not published.
In Gerry's blog he refers to friends coming over to give further statements in July I think and it was reported in a Portuguese newspaper that they were "changing Thier statements". There were - according to the newspaper- three of them.
Also worth noting is the fact that Goncalo Amaral retired from the PJ on 30th June 2008, over two months after the rogatory interviews, where David Payne refers to the appearance of the McCann children.  The Truth of the Lie was published just after the Portuguese judiciary archived the case - is there any reason to question Snr Amaral's knowledge of the rogatory interviews?  I don't think so.

Gerry McCann's blog?  No comment!

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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by liars a to e on 03.05.17 15:21

I wasn't questioning it. But I did think he was off the case by the time of the rogatories. So he either saw them - which explains how he knew - or DP had made a statement prior to Amaral being off the case which had this description in it. All I am trying to say here is that there are statements we have not seen.And the email from LP paraphrases a statement by DP but does not reproduce it, otherwise why not just attach that statement with the Gasper attachments. The detials of the statement referred to in the LP email are not from any DP statement I have seen anywhere else.
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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by liars a to e on 03.05.17 16:59

Finally on the 3 May itself the Payne's remain steadfastly not involved. Thier narrative is - we are not involved sitting here around our baby monitor not getting up from the table at all we repeat not involved. Compare that to JT and her baby monitor. In JTs rogatory we are told how she was waving it about on the first Tapas night (she notes the abductor could have seen this) then she says she didn't rely on it then contradicts herself saying how her child knew to call down it (so she could rely on it after all?) Then later in the rogatory when asked if she took it with her every night she says "yeah". So she took it with her every night but didn't use it? She couldn't rely on it but took it with her every night. Presumably she didnt take it on May 3 then. If not on May 3 why not?
Meanwhile the Payne's remain at the table with their monitor which they took every night including May 3 because - we are not involved thank you very much. Until on the 10 May Gerry says DP went to the apartment between 6 and 7. And what DP said in his interview of the 10 or 11 May (there must have been one everyone else was interviewed) we cannot see. The Gaspers made thier statement on the 15 May.
That concludes my theory that the Payne's are different (unwilling/uncomfortable/off narrative/persuaded/doubting but not wanting to doubt their very good friends/or a combination of all of these things).
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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by polyenne on 05.05.17 15:58

I see that a lot of members on this forum regard Matthew Oldfield as a key player in the story. Whilst I agree that his statements about his movements on the evening of the alleged abduction are dubious, IMO I believe that David Payne plays a much larger overall part, if not pivotal role, in the scenario from start to finish.

This involvement includes :
1.   dubious sign language to Gerry on a previous holiday (Gaspar statement)   
2.   choosing, arranging and booking the holiday and venue
3.   lack of real detail in his movements during the week
4.   taking his mother-in-law on holiday when all others were couples
5.   he was the one who mentioned the "pact of silence"
6.   why, if indeed he did, did he go to 5A on the evening of 3 May ? To bathe the kids as he had seemingly done before ? To "make sure Kate was alright" as Gerry had aske him to do (what does that mean exactly and could this be the discrapnacy in timings especially as Fiona queried how long he was away)
7.   how long was he actually in 5A (did he actually go "in " at all ??)
8.   why take so long to get to the table on the Thursday evening ? Were there problems between him and Fiona over his visit to 5A ? Were they having discussions, or having 2nd thoughts, about getting involved in what was about to transpire ?
9.   the fact that he was seemingly recognised by the English woman who offered her assistance
10.  his keenness to distance Kate from that same woman
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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by coati mundi on 13.05.17 0:08

Surely the pyjamas Madeleine was wearing when she was supposedly abducted were not were not "predominantly white"? Not the ones the McCs say are like those worn by Madeleine.

Does anyone say what predominant colours the twins' pyjamas were. If they were all wearing "predominantly white" clothing when DP saw them and they were being prepared for bed was their night attire changed later? If so, why haven't the parents said so? I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anything to this effect.

Also, if DP was either mistaken or had made it up, why hasn't Kate McCann corrected it?

I hope these questions make sense.

I won't put IMO, because I believe these are valid questions.

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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by coati mundi on 13.05.17 0:14

Sorry, just to say that someone else might have raised this here. If, so, I don't mean to be presumptious. I haven't been able, since these thoughts occurred to me, to read all of the threads on this, so apologies if I'm repeating what others might have raised.

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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by Verdi on 13.05.17 0:21

David Payne didn't make that visit to apartment 5a late afternoon/early evening on Thursday 3rd May 2007, there is compelling evidence to suggest that Madeleine was long gone before the Thursday.  If you check-out his various accounts of the evening, he can't even recall the time of the visit - it ranges between approximately 5.00 and 7.00 pm, no mean difference. 

Payne's visit was but false evidence to place a living Madeleine in the McCanns apartment on the Thursday evening.

At some point of this masquerade, it was said that Payne's visit was to see if Kate McCann was going to take the children to the playground before bed.  After they'd been washed and prepared for bed in their pristine nightwear?

Pull the other one!

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Re: David Payne: McCann kids dressed in white like angels

Post by coati mundi on 13.05.17 0:47

Verdi, I'm not suggesting he was there. I don't really believe he was. But he says he was and you then have to examine what he says about this in his evidence. I worked for several years in criminal law and have seen many trials. When a good barrister wants to unpick and undermine the evidence of a witness they will take them through of their evidence and highlight the inconsistencies so as to lead to a blunt point of suggesting that they are not telling the truth, or at least to cast grave doubt on whether they are being truthful in any respect. 

I'm not trying to be supercilious (or indeed antagonistic ). Just putting my thoughts about this aspect. 

I do value the effort and insight that you have contributed to this forum.

All IMO about whether Payne was telling the truth about being there.

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