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CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

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CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by wills on 04.04.17 18:39

Cadaver odour was detected in the shrubbery below apartment 5a. This (along with many other things) baffles me. I understand that a body would have to be in a certain place for at least 90 minutes before an odour could be detected.
source suzyjohnson on 28.10.13 1:24.  How could a dead body lay in a flower bed for that amount of time without it being seen? Is it possible that cadaver odour from clothing or effects that had been in close contact with a body could transmit the odour to another region. To put it plainly, would it be feasable to have a dead person's clothing, bundled up and hidden in the garden for about 90 minutes waiting to be disposed of?
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 04.04.17 18:45

It's believed that Maddie died behind the sofa (where Eddie alerted) and lay there for 90 mins or so, she was then placed in the missing blue sports bag in the wardrobe (where Eddie alerted), then moved and possibly the blue bag was put in the flowerbed temporarily before being put in the car (where Eddie alerted).

If that makes any sense...
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by wills on 04.04.17 19:06

So on that understanding, cadaver odour can be transmitted to a sports bag, and then transmitted from the bag to the shrubbery. Forgive me if I appear naive about these things which I confess I am. So if odour can be transmitted to other areas that come in contact with odorous items, why didn't Gerry's show indications of odour as he must have come into close contact with Kate's check trousers?
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by stumo on 04.04.17 19:30

@wills wrote:Cadaver odour was detected in the shrubbery below apartment 5a. This (along with many other things) baffles me. I understand that a body would have to be in a certain place for at least 90 minutes before an odour could be detected.
source suzyjohnson on 28.10.13 1:24.  How could a dead body lay in a flower bed for that amount of time without it being seen? Is it possible that cadaver odour from clothing or effects that had been in close contact with a body could transmit the odour to another region. To put it plainly, would it be feasable to have a dead person's clothing, bundled up and hidden in the garden for about 90 minutes waiting to be disposed of?

It takes approx 90 minutes from the time of death for the cadaver fluid to be produced....after that time it's constantly oozing out of the body, so it wouldn't have to be in the flower bed long for the fluid to transfer.
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by Verdi on 04.04.17 20:58

@wills wrote:So on that understanding, cadaver odour can be transmitted to a sports bag, and then transmitted from the bag to the shrubbery. Forgive me if I appear naive about these things which I confess I am. So if odour can be transmitted to other areas that come in contact with odorous items, why didn't Gerry's show indications of odour as he must have come into close contact with Kate's check trousers?
No you're not being naive.  Cadaver odour can exist by transference which is quite likely to be the case with the EVRD alert to the shrubbery in the small garden area below apartment 5a - I believe it was said to be only a passing interest to Eddie the EVRD,  which suggests to me it was more likely something placed there for a short period as opposed to direct contact with an actual corpse.

Gerry McCann's close contact with his wife's harlequin pants is not something I wish to contemplate  Laughing but it's a good point you make.  I've often wondered why Kate McCann would continue to wear clothes that may have come into direct contact with a corpse but again, contamination could have been by transference.  The items moved to a sterile environment for inspection by the dogs were boxed-up together, so it's quite feasible KM's checkered trousers could have been contaminated by some other item - cuddlecat for example.  Cuddlecat who, like Madeleine, never had a voice.
 
If you think about it there is a pattern here.  Body in the blue 'now you see it now you don't' sports bag, either being transported from or to apartment 5a, being momentarily placed in the shrubbery whilst checking that the coast is clear for the next plan of action.  A scent was also detected by the EVRD on apartment 5a veranda - the garden area (shrubbery) was I believe directly below the veranda.

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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by JulieC on 04.04.17 21:04

@Verdi wrote:
Gerry McCann's close contact with his wife's harlequin pants is not something I wish to contemplate  Laughing 

Verdi. I almost lost my cup of tea reading that post!   laughat
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by Verdi on 04.04.17 21:08

@JulieC wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
Gerry McCann's close contact with his wife's harlequin pants is not something I wish to contemplate  Laughing 

Verdi. I almost lost my cup of tea reading that post!   laughat
Thank gawd you weren't eating big grin .

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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by sandancer on 04.04.17 21:29

Cadaver Odour in the Shrubbery​ !

Sounds like something from Cluedo 

Or an Agatha​ Christie book 

Sorry​ wills , no​ disrespect meant to a genuine question​     roses

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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by quaestorr on 04.04.17 22:32

What is the distance down from the verandah to the shrubbery and how private is that area? I've looked at photos, but not found any which make these things clear. Two possibilities are in my thinking:
1. The body, presumably in a bag, was lowered from the verandah to be collected from the shrubbery for removal, either by the Mccanns themselves or an accomplice. The purpose would be to avoid a person being seen leaving the apartment with a bag, as the patio doors and front door are more in view.
2. Is the distance down sufficient to make a fatal fall credible? Madeleine would then have had to lie dead there for 90 minutes or more unfound to leave odour, which is why I ask about the privacy of the spot.
Apologies if I'm asking the obvious and retreading old ground.
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by wills on 04.04.17 22:43

No disrespect taken Sandancer. But what I fail to understand is could a 3 year old child be placed into a tennis bag? I take it(correct me if I am wrong) that the pink blanket also disappeared. Could the cadaver odour be from a corpse or items that were in close contact with the same?
I also read somewhere that Kate mentioned that previous to the 'holiday' she had visited 6 families to issue death certificates wearing the check trousers. Who with any sense of decorum would visit bereaved people dressed in check trousers?
But it still doesn't answer the question, if odour can be transferred from one in close contact with another, why does the the other close contacted party show no hint of odour eg Gerry? I would consider it an almost impossibility for just one person to place a 3 year old child single handedly into a tennis bag.
Sorry if I digress.
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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by Verdi on 05.04.17 0:23

@wills wrote:No disrespect taken Sandancer. But what I fail to understand is could a 3 year old child be placed into a tennis bag? I take it(correct me if I am wrong) that the pink blanket also disappeared. Could the cadaver odour be from a corpse or items that were in close contact with the same?
I also read somewhere that Kate mentioned that previous to the 'holiday' she had visited 6 families to issue death certificates wearing the check trousers. Who with any sense of decorum would visit bereaved people dressed in check trousers?
But it still doesn't answer the question, if odour can be transferred from one in close contact with another, why does the the other close contacted party show no hint of odour eg Gerry? I would consider it an almost impossibility for just one person to place a 3 year old child single handedly into a tennis bag.
Sorry if I digress.
1.  David Paynes talks of sports bag during rogatory interview in April 2008..

1485 "What about a kit bag' Would they have a kit bag with them''
 

Reply "Err he certainly didn't have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn't have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played''

1485 "Yeah.'

Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn't a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.'

1485 "Yeah.'

Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything''

1485 "Yeah.'
 

Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.'

1485 "So as opposed to a bag it'd be something like a rucksack, if at all''

Reply "If, if at all, yeah.'

2.  Cadavar odour by transference already covered.

3.  Pink blanket much like the sports bag - now you see it now you don't.

4.  Kate McCann never said she had attended any deaths prior to the holiday.  It was a claim allegedly made by a family member reported by the UK press.

5.  How many people would you expect to be needed to handle the body of a three year old child?

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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by RosieandSam on 05.04.17 3:35

@Verdi wrote:
If you think about it there is a pattern here.  Body in the blue 'now you see it now you don't' sports bag, either being transported from or to apartment 5a, being momentarily placed in the shrubbery whilst checking that the coast is clear for the next plan of action.  A scent was also detected by the EVRD on apartment 5a veranda - the garden area (shrubbery) was I believe directly below the veranda.


The steps which led to the gate on the road are directly under the verandah.  The small shrubbery is underneath the steps.

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Re: CADAVER ODOUR IN THE SHRUBBERY.

Post by justagrannynow on 05.04.17 10:28

The cadaver odour found in the shrubbery also puts paid to Kate's statement that the abductor exited the apartment with Madeleine via the bedroom window which overlooked the car park at the opposite end of the apartment. I  think Kate said this to bolster their statements of being able to see the apartment from the Tapas bar and make them appear to be " dining in the garden". They could see the patio but not the bedroom where Madeleine and the twins were sleeping.
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