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Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

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Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 6:34


THE HYPOTHESIS OF DEATH IS CONSIDERED.
THE ARRIVAL OF THE SPECIALISTS

After Krugel's unsuccessful visit, our English colleagues vaunt the work of their specialist dog team from the South Yorkshire Police Department of Criminal Investigation. Their dogs are specially trained to locate the most minute traces of blood and are capable of outstanding performance in the search for human remains and bodily fluids.

THE FORENSIC SPECIALISTS

It's July. The hypothesis of death, including by the parents, is being seriously considered. However, no lead has yet come to anything, and we find ourselves in a cul-de-sac. We have to re-centre the investigation around its point of departure, apartment 5A at the Ocean Club, in Vila da Luz. We officially request the help of the best experts in criminology and forensics but also the specialist dog team from the English police. A few days later, we welcome Mark Harrison, a specialist in murder, and the search for missing persons and victims of natural disasters. National advisor to the British police, he is well known for his exceptional professional experience. He has already participated in dozens of international criminal investigations.

His work consists of defining new strategies for research. He gets to work immediately, supported by the Portuguese PJ and the investigators from Leicester and Scotland Yard. On his arrival, we place at his disposal details of the case, as well as all our material and human resources. Harrison reads up on the statements and interviews from the principal witnesses - including, of course, those of the parents and friends -, all the analyses, simulations, hypotheses and cross-checking already carried out. He carries out a reconnaissance on the ground, by helicopter and then on foot. He paces the streets and the access roads to Vila da Luz and compares them to the diagrams created in the course of the investigation. Nothing is left to chance: measurement and timing of possible routes between buildings, apartments and restaurants; analyses, with the help of the best specialists, of weather, geological and maritime factors in relation to the investigation; consultation with the best forensic anthropologist in the country, who indicates for us what would be the actual state of the body in the hypothesis of death occurring on May 3rd; study of the region's natural carrion predators. All the research already conducted by hundreds of people - GNR, civil defence, firemen and other volunteers - is re-examined in detail and re-analysed.

After a week of intense work, Harrison presents the results of his study to my coordinating group. Even if we were expecting it, his conclusions confirm our worst fears. The most plausible scenario is the following: there is no doubt that Madeleine is dead, and her body is hidden somewhere in the area around Praia da Luz. He praises the quality of the work carried out by the Portuguese authorities in trying to find the little girl alive. According to him, the time has come to redirect the searches in order to find, this time, a body hidden in the surrounding area.

AMAZING STATISTICS

Great Britain has at its disposal the world's biggest data bank on homicide of children under five years old. Since 1960, the count is 1528. Harrison is well acquainted with its contents. He often draws information from there which helps him to resolve similar cases. Valuable information can be found there on on various criminal modus operandi, places where bodies are hidden, techniques used to get rid of a body. He relates that on one occasion, thanks to the data, he was able to deduce the maximum distance a body might be found in relation to where the crime had been committed.

The figures quoted in the report he hands over give us the shivers. The crimes, including those of a sexual nature, are committed by the parents in 84% of cases; 96% are perpetrated by friends and relatives. In only 4% of them is the murderer or abductor a total stranger to the victim. In this roundabout way, Mark Harrison points out that the guilty party may be a person close to Madeleine, and even her own parents. From now on, we have to explore this track, especially as the others have proved fruitless.

Harrison also suggests that we use the skills of two totally remarkable dogs: the first an EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), achieves outstanding performance in the detection of human cadaver odour; the second, a CSI dog (Crime Scene Investigation) is capable of smelling the tiniest trace of blood, knowing how to recognise its human origin. To convince us of their capability and the extraordinary work carried out by these very special detectives in the course of over 200 investigations, he screens a video for us, showing their training and their intervention on the ground.

He suggests that we start the operations with the inspection of apartment 5A, then those occupied by the McCanns' friends. Robert Murat's house will also be subjected to thorough examination. In addition, all the vehicles used by all of them will be sniffed by the dogs.

Meanwhile, we were supposed to receive American electronic equipment that detects human bodies thanks to the odour that emanates from them (Scent Transfer Unit 100). But the equipment, blocked by customs, arrived late. We didn't need to use it, having obtained very concrete results, thanks to the dogs.

THE ENGLISH SPECIALIST DOG TEAM

The heat is scorching on this thirtieth day of July 2007 when two Springer Spaniels, Eddie and Keela, get off the British Airways plane, accompanied by their trainer, Martin Grime. An air-conditioned vehicle is waiting to take them to their accommodation. A vet, who will be on hand during their stay, has been brought in to intervene in case of illness or if the dogs get bitten by a snake. Their mission: to find Madeleine's body and expose those responsible.

Eddie has been involved in a great number of cases, helping the police to resolve a good many riddles, thanks to his sense of smell. Even if the body has been moved, objects the body has touched have been contaminated by its odour, especially porous materials, fabrics, the upholstery in cars, etc. And that odour, Eddie knows how to recognise out of a thousand.

Keela, a scenes of crime specialist, is capable of locating particles of blood even after a place has been cleaned with chemical products or bleach. Sometimes, the residues are so microscopic they are missed by the instruments of the forensic police, as sophicticated as they are, and it's impossible to harvest them without taking all of what they are on.

Eddie is always the first to be brought onto a site. Once he has discerned the odour that he knows so well, it's Keela's turn to go into action, on the lookout for the slightest whiff of blood. The simultaneous presence of the two elements in a given place - blood and cavaver odours - is taken to indicate that a body has been there and that it's probably there that the death occurred.

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies.

Amongst the most media-covered cases, which they contributed to resolving, is that of the disappearance in Northern Ireland of Attracta Harron, who was last seen when she was returning home on foot, after having been to church. All searches carried out by the police were unsuccessful. The main suspect's car having been totally burnt out in a mysterious fire, couldn't be examined. They called in Eddie, who examined the charred remains of the vehicle and immediately picked out the characteristic odour. Human tissue was found amongst the debris, the DNA of which corresponded to the missing woman. Later, the dog indicated the place - close to a river - where the victim's body had been abandoned. At the home of the suspect, where the police were searching for incriminating evidence, Eddie identified cadaver odour in one of the bedrooms. The man confessed to having killed the woman then moving her body to the banks of the river.

The case of Amanda Edwards, reported missing, is also very impressive. The police, who conducted a search of her ex-partner's home, found small bloodstains there, but no trace of a body. The dog, who was brought in for the examination of the man''s vehicle, alerted to cadaver odour on the tools stored in the boot (a shovel, a level and a compactor). The police went to the building site where the suspect had worked a few days before and discovered the body, buried in a garage. The murderer had made efficient use of his tools to carry out his task.

It's also thanks to the help of the dogs that the case of Charlotte Pinkley, a missing British woman, who had been imprisoned by her ex-partner, was resolved. The police requested the help of the specialist dog team to try to find the young woman's body. Eddie picked out a place where the abductor had provisionally left his victim. In the surrounding area, the investigators found the button from a dress that had belonged to Charlotte. That clue exposed the murderer, who ended up showing the police the place where he had hidden the body.

More recently, it's Eddie who helps to find a body buried under a flagstone at the former orphanage, Haut-de-la-Garenne, in Jersey, setting for a terrible case of paedophilia and child murder.

The achievements of the dog detectives are the result of a very long apprenticeship. It all starts with the selection of the best puppies when they are only a few months old. The most talented breed for this unusual "profession," is the Springer Spaniel. The trainer, Martin Grime, and his pupils undergo aptitude tests every year in order to obtain certificates proving their capability. In Great Britain, the police have no hesitation in calling in the specialist dog teams to assist in certain criminal investigations. Their skills are nowadays recognised by journalists, police and courts all over the world.

EXAMINATION OF THE OCEAN CLUB APARTMENTS BY THE SPECIALIST DOGS

On August 3rd 2007, I am having dinner in Praia da rocha, near Portimão, with my friend Gaivota. Unable to hide my anxiety, I keep looking at my watch and my telephone. Gaivota asks me if everything is OK: I respond with an absent-minded "Yes." A few kilometres away one of the most important search operations ever carried out in Portugal has begun. Perhaps we will finally manage to clear up the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance.

The investigation starts in apartment 5A. The grey jeep transporting the dogs pulls into the car park in front of the building. There is hope and anxiety on people's faces. Martin Grime gets out of the car, holding Eddie on a tight leash. He takes it off and orders Eddie to sit down. Instead of obeying as would be expected of such a well-trained dog, Eddie immediately rushes into the building. He then goes to and fro between the lounge and the bedroom in an agitated manner. Martin wonders what could be making his animal so nervous and calls him back to give precise orders. An investigator is filming the entire scene. A little later, Eddie is examining the floor in the parents' bedroom, near the wardrobe, when he lets out a strident howl, indicating that he has detected a cadaver odour. The investigators have hardly recovered from their amazement, when another, equally impressive, howl startles them. This time, Eddie has picked out that same odour under the window, just behind the sofa, on one of the walls in the lounge. That evening, in apartment 5A, the investigators begin to glimpse what might have happened.

At around 10pm, police officers see Gerry McCann, going past the apartment at the wheel of his hire car, a Renault Mégane Scenic, an impenetrable look on his face.

Then it's Keela's turn to intervene. She points her muzzle at the same place where Eddie gave the alert: traces of blood are found on the tiling between the window and the sofa. Outside, Eddie barks twice: on the veranda at the back of the building and in the garden, just below it. At this place, the dog's bark is weaker and might mean "maybe, who knows....". Thus from the indications provided by Eddie, we can pinpoint the places where the body was moved around. Apartments 5B, 5D and 5H, where the McCanns' friends stayed, are examined that same night. The investigators are expecting new developments. However, nothing happens. Eddie does not show the slightest reaction. Therefore, Keela does not get involved.

From then on, we are sure that, at a given moment, there was a body in apartment 5A. We now have to interview firemen, medical services personnel, previous tenants and employees of the Ocean Club to make sure that no death has taken place in this accommodation, which they confirm. So, we can conclude that the odour discovered is certainly that of Madeleine Beth McCann.

SEARCHES IN THE AREA AROUND VILA DA LUZ

As planned, the searches with Eddie go ahead in and around the village. To leave nothing to chance, he is also put to inspecting the area outlined by Krugel.

Mark Harrison organises a big meeting to direct the work of the search teams. He has conceived the idea of iron bars, whose production he has consigned to a local company. They will be used to sink holes into the ground which will facilitate the possible release of gas emanating from a decomposing body.

Martin, Eddie, the PJ inspectors and members of the GNR, go over with a fine-tooth comb, all the areas where the body of a child might be found. Eddie runs his nose over kilometres of waste ground, ruins, buildings abandoned or under construction, waterways, pipework, along the beach, under every bush, not forgetting the famous Rocha Negra. No evidence of the presence of a body, no cadaver odour anywhere.

EXAMINATION OF THE McCANNS' HOUSE.

"The moment of truth has arrived." That's what everybody is thinking when searching begins at the accommodation the family is occupying from now on: either we find evidence of their responsibility in Madeleine's disappearance, or they will definitely be cleared of all suspicion.

Being convinced of having made a mistake in not placing either the couple or their friends under surveillance, we decided to rectify it. We ask the Public Minister for authorisation to search and, at the same time, authorisation for phone taps. Our request is sent to the judge. He being absent, his deputy is called upon. Finally, after 24 hours of anxious waiting, we learn that authorisation is refused. The disappointment is enormous because we will never have access to conversations the McCanns have away from the microphones, and this not least because the McCanns are preparing to return to England. We cannot count on any more than the search of the house they have occupied since May 3rd, 27 Rue das Flores, which they have been able to rent thanks to money collected by the Madeleine Fund.

To avoid contamination of evidence that will be gathered at the McCanns', Mark Harrison has insisted on the availability of decontaminated premises exclusively set aside for this purpose. Julio Barroso, mayor of Lagos, agrees to lend us the garage of a new, unoccupied building in the centre of Lagos. The place is cleaned from top to bottom.

On August 2nd, at 6pm, the inspectors arrive at the McCanns' residence and present the search warrant. The principle of the examination by the specialist dogs is explained. Kate and Gerry are in the swimming pool in the garden with the twins. Contrary to all expectations, they allow us access to their house in a very natural way.

Eddie goes immediately to the lounge. He comes to a stop in front of a wicker armchair on which is lying Madeleine's small pink soft toy, which Kate was never without in the early days of the investigation. Nowadays, she wears a rosary and a green ribbon around her neck. Eddie barks to let us know that he has detected an odour: the soft toy has been in contact with a body.

The soft toy and all the clothes from the house are placed into boxes specially made to preserve evidence. These objects are then conveyed to the decontaminated premises. They are placed on the ground, a good distance apart for the dogs to examine.

At 8pm, Tavares de Almeida calls me to let me know that Mark Harrison requires another place because this one is not sufficiently clean.

- How do I find a place at this kind of time?

- Sort it out!

Julio Barroso offers us the new sports hall in Lagos which, finally, meets the required standards. The objects are once again laid out on the ground and the dogs can start. Eddie alerts us to a strong cadaver odour on some of Kate's clothes, but the CSI dog doesn't detect the slightest trace of blood.

EDDIE AND KEELA AT ROBERT MURAT'S HOUSE.

Robert Murat's residence and the adjacent grounds are gone over with a fine-tooth comb in their turn. Mark Harrison, rigorously professional, has planned to devote three days to this job. This seems long to us. We want to limit the duration of this operation to avoid having the media besiege the premises. Mark agrees not to prolong the search any longer than is necessary, and manages to finish it in two days.

PJ, GNR, Civil Defence: dozens of men are mobilised. They have to work their way through the jungle that's invaded the land all round the house - Murat will not recognise his garden any more once the investigators have been through. The ground is examined with radar, centimetre by centimetre, by a specialist from Aveiro university. In vain: the dogs detect nothing. No evidence is found anywhere within the area examined. All the same, the radar reveals that Murat's house is built over an ancient Roman villa.

EXAMINATION OF THE VEHICLES

Not having been able to find an available garage in Lagos, we appeal to the mayor of Portimão, Manuel da Luz. In this case as in others before, the police have been able to count on the practical support of the mayor's office.

Finally, on August 6th, in the unoccupied floors of an underground car park, opposite the PJ's offices, the inspection of the vehicles takes place. To be examined are those of Robert Murat, Michaela, Sergey Malinka, Luiz Antonio, the McCann couple, and one that Russell O'Brien may have used. Driven by the investigators, the cars are parked in the reserved areas, doors closed and windows raised, with a space of 10 metres from one to another to avoid contamination. According to planned procedure, Eddie goes in first; Keela will be brought in if necessary.

In the immense underground car park, Martin commands Eddie to begin the examination. The dog then intensively sniffs each of the first three cars, at tyre level, the side doors and the boot, then all round. When he gets close to the fourth, the McCanns' Renault, he becomes agitated, raises his nose while running around, as if he is trying to locate the source of the odour he has detected. Martin tells him to stop running around and concentrate on the search. Finally, he starts to growl, bark and wanting to bite the bottom of the driver's door and the boot. The odour is coming from inside. The PJ's experts examine the vehicle for hours with the help of Keela. At dawn, traces of human blood are found in places indicated by the female dog: the key and the boot. The harvested samples are packed, then sent to a forensic laboratory in Birmingham, Great Britain.



Eddie did not hesitate for a moment. He was only interested in the McCanns' automobile. No other attracted his attention or provoked any reaction whatsoever on his part. So, why would certain people want to minimise the evidence produced by this method?

Later, I am brought the witness statement of a neighbour, according to whom, the McCanns left their car boot open all the time. For Gerry's brother-in-law, the bad smell was explained by the fact that the McCanns transported their bins in it. As for the blood, it had been left by a piece of meat fallen out of a shopping bag. Kate's cousin explained that the unpleasant smells were due to the little ones' dirty nappies.

None of that stands up to scrutiny faced with the reactions of these dogs, who are thoroughly trained to detect only blood and cadaver odours.

HARVESTING OF THE SAMPLES DERIVED FROM THE SPECIALIST DOGS' INSPECTIONS.

So that the items of evidence might constitute admissible proof, the harvesting and packing must conform to the rules avoiding all risk of deterioration and contamination. It is experts from our police forensic laboratory who carry out the harvesting. The minuscule traces cannot be gathered in situ, so the tiling is gently lifted out before being transferred to the Forensic Science Laboratory in Birmingham. Photos bear witness to every stage of the operation. For added security, it is the expert responsible for the collection who takes them to FSS on the morning of August 7th. The choice of this laboratory is not insignificant. Apart from their use of cutting-edge technologies - LCN (Low Copy Number) a DNA identification test, used particularly when only microscopic samples are available -, the results, whatever they might be will not be able to be contested by the British since it's one of their most reliable laboratories. All other items of evidence gathered - the keys to the McCanns' car, hair and traces of blood found in the boot - are also sent to England.

INITIAL CONCLUSIONS

English and Portuguese police get together to analyse the results of Eddie and Keela's searches.

- What we can deduce at this stage is that only the McCanns are implicated. The dogs did not detect blood or cadaver odour other than with them.

- From now on we have the certainty that there was a body behind the sofa before being taken into the parents' bedroom.

- If the blood found behind the sofa is that of the little girl, we can assume that she died there.

- That could explain why the sofa was pushed up against the curtains.

- In Madeleine's bedroom and on her bed, there was no cadaver odour.

- On the other hand, the odour on the soft toy indicates that she was holding it when she died....

These conclusions do not, for the moment, constitute proof. If the laboratory results are positive, and only in that case, we will have our proof.



(Eddie alerting to the odour he has detected from the McCanns' hired Renault Scenic)

http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/chapter-16.html
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by The Rooster on 09.03.17 7:16

Thanks for the post GEG, who wrote this piece? I'm sure I have read excerpts previously I think but not the whole article. Did the UK press publish the results of Mr Harrison's findings and those conclusions drawn from the dogs activities?

This is explosive information and should be drawn to the attention of the public. It could perhaps act as a catalyst!

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 7:30

It is chapter 16 from Gonçalo Amaral's book The Truth of the Lie
http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 7:34

Quote PeterMac from his ebook: http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

The dogs were surely the final straw.

A British Police Advisor organised the top British human blood and human cadaverine detection Spaniels, handled and trained by the top British Police officer, Martin Grime. The dogs were given the run of the apartment and of all the others in the block. They were taken to an underground car park with a selection of cars, and another room with a selection of clothing, as shown in the video below.

They alerted to places and items concerned with the McCanns - and importantly to NO OTHER PLACES OR ITEMS, and that fact does need to be repeated as often as we have time to do so.

And the alerts allow a short and tragic story to be told.

Behind the sofa, on Kate’s trousers, and on Cuddle cat, to a shelf in the parents’ bedroom, where a blue tennis bag had been photographed, then in the boot of the car, and on the key fob.

The sequence is not difficult to follow !
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by The Rooster on 09.03.17 7:41

Thanks, I'll read the books again.

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 7:48






Full version
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by BlueBag on 09.03.17 7:50

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Quote PeterMac from his ebook: http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

The dogs were surely the final straw.

A British Police Advisor organised the top British human blood and human cadaverine detection Spaniels, handled and trained by the top British Police officer, Martin Grime. The dogs were given the run of the apartment and of all the others in the block. They were taken to an underground car park with a selection of cars, and another room with a selection of clothing, as shown in the video below.

They alerted to places and items concerned with the McCanns - and importantly to NO OTHER PLACES OR ITEMS, and that fact does need to be repeated as often as we have time to do so.

And the alerts allow a short and tragic story to be told.

Behind the sofa, on Kate’s trousers, and on Cuddle cat, to a shelf in the parents’ bedroom, where a blue tennis bag had been photographed, then in the boot of the car, and on the key fob.

The sequence is not difficult to follow !

This is the crux of the matter.

"NO OTHER PLACES OR ITEMS"


The dogs were show other flats, other cars and other clothing - nothing there.

If anyone asks me why I don't believe the official story, this is the first point of call.

Something that our British Police seem to be deliberately ignoring.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by BlueBag on 09.03.17 7:53

A question!

Have OG ever commented on the dogs?

Is it possible to get OG or someone in authority to comment on the dogs?

I want to know why millions of pounds of taxpayers money is being wasted if they have not considered this evidence.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 8:03

Their remit is to investigate the abduction.

The dogs aren't part of that remit.

I think the closest OG has come to acknowledging the dogs is when DCI Redwood said Madeleine might not have left the apartment alive.

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by BlueBag on 09.03.17 8:07

There must be come way of questioning the direction an investigation is going.

After all these years it would be reasonable for the people paying for it (US!) to ask what the hell are you doing! 

They appear to be wasting our money.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 8:12

I'll ask PeterMac to send this thread to DCI Nicola Wall and maybe Tony could send another FOI....?
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 8:28


Thank you to Talk_Leicester for retweeting thumbsup
https://twitter.com/Talk_Leicester
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 09.03.17 8:33

It's funny because one of the pro's announced on twitter a few weeks ago that #Leicester was now trending and asked fellow pro's to join her 'for Madeleine'.

I 'liked' her tweet and in return she called me a shill.

So I've started tweeting CMOMM stuff on #Leicester and now it's being retweeted by Talk_Leicester!  party
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Crufts

Post by Mirage on 09.03.17 20:51

In case you missed it lovely Molly, a black cocker spaniel was featured on Crufts but can be seen on Channel 4 plus 1 at 9pm.

Molly's specialty? Sniffer dog trained to find lost cats!. Claire Balding interviewed her handler, Colin Butcher. He appeared alongside the CEO of Medical Detection Dogs, Claire Guest, who spoke of the ongoing advances in disease detection in humans. She talked about Molly's massive olfactory capability, over a million times that of a human. Dogs like this were, she said, capable of detecting two teaspoonfuls of sugar in an Olympic sized swimming pool !!

Molly's handler talked about other specialist detection dogs, and mentioned cadaver dogs. Film showed Molly in action.

Not to be missed.

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Lands_end on 10.03.17 11:36

Mirage wrote:In case you missed it lovely Molly, a black cocker spaniel was featured on Crufts but can be seen on Channel 4 plus 1 at 9pm.

Molly's specialty? Sniffer dog trained to find lost cats!. Claire Balding interviewed her handler, Colin Butcher. He appeared alongside the CEO of Medical Detection Dogs, Claire Guest, who spoke of the ongoing advances in disease detection in humans. She talked about Molly's massive olfactory capability, over a million times that of a human. Dogs like this were, she said, capable of detecting two teaspoonfuls of sugar in an Olympic sized swimming pool !!

Molly's handler talked about other specialist detection dogs, and mentioned cadaver dogs. Film showed Molly in action.

Not to be missed.
I watched this avidly Mirage. This is only the second year I have missed attending Crufts in the past decade that is due to having a bitch in whelp. Thursday and Friday are great days to go and I am always amazed at the ever evolving information around the talents of these wonderful companions of mankind. In my case they are true family members. All dogs can track by scent some better than others , spaniels are often selected because they are easy to train and enjoy the job.

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Mirage on 10.03.17 11:49

Lands_end wrote:
Mirage wrote:In case you missed it lovely Molly, a black cocker spaniel was featured on Crufts but can be seen on Channel 4 plus 1 at 9pm.

Molly's specialty? Sniffer dog trained to find lost cats!. Claire Balding interviewed her handler, Colin Butcher. He appeared alongside the CEO of Medical Detection Dogs, Claire Guest, who spoke of the ongoing advances in disease detection in humans. She talked about Molly's massive olfactory capability, over a million times that of a human. Dogs like this were, she said, capable of detecting two teaspoonfuls of sugar in an Olympic sized swimming pool !!

Molly's handler talked about other specialist detection dogs, and mentioned cadaver dogs. Film showed Molly in action.

Not to be missed.
I watched this avidly Mirage. This is only the second year I have missed attending Crufts in the past decade that is due to having a bitch in whelp. Thursday and Friday are great days to go and I am always amazed at the ever evolving information around the talents of these wonderful companions of mankind. In my case they are true family members. All dogs can track by scent some better than others , spaniels are often selected because they are easy to train and enjoy the job.
T'is now on my bucket list Lands_end for next year. Btw Noel Fitzpatrick, Supervet, is inspirational. Never have I seen such devotion to animals.

Coincidentally, I had just written 'whelp' as the last word in a crossword when I came across your post!

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Sinan19 on 02.09.17 11:43

I honestly can't believe how people try to explain the dog alerts away with 'but blood and cadaver dogs CAN be wrong' or 'they can pick up on potential bias of their handlers'. 

Surely dogs CAN be WRONG. Surely they are sensible enough to pick up on possible bias of their handler as well. But if people take a look at the whole picture, no traces of forced entry whatsoever, no signs of an abduction, but so much that points towards the McCann family's possible involvement, then 'they can be wrong' or 'picked up on bias' is just a very poor excuse and a huge portion of denial. Even if you give the dogs the benefit of the doubt and would assume a hit or two have been unfounded, you cannot explain away that those dogs picked up on what they were supposed to pick up on. And it wasn't a dead mouse that was rotting in that car trunk.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by JRP on 02.09.17 17:24

EVRD dogs are trained to indicate when they detect the scent of human cadaver ordure, they are trained to ignore everything else, therefore dead mice do not count and neither do arm or voice gestures made by the handler. 
Gerry McCann believes they are unreliable, his missus thinks they are shown were to alert by their handler, and their twitter shill will tell you they only alert to pigs.

The dogs alert to where the scent is found, finding a dead body is not the dogs role in life, that job falls to human police, who usually investigate along the lines of the dogs being correct and there being a death. 
In many cases people have been convicted without a body being found. Either they have subsequently confessed, or other evidence against them has been overwhelming.
However in this case, for some unknown reason, our UK police have not followed the alerts made by the dogs, and have gone off chasing the bungling burglar abduction theory.

If however there is evidence from any credible police dog handler, police dog trainer, evrd trainer, which says an evrd dog is unreliable with alerts, I'd like to see it.

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Sinan19 on 02.09.17 17:28

Yeah, the mouse comment was me being sarcastic. I totally trust the dogs in this.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by skyrocket on 02.09.17 18:47

@Sinan19 - welcome.

The point about handler bias is highly significant, IMO.

During her September 7th arguida PJ interview, Kate McCann was shown the videos of Eddie and then Keela giving strong indications behind the sofa/under the window in the lounge area of 5A. In her book she states the following, 'At one point, the handler directed the dogs over to a spot behind the couch in the sitting room, close to the curtains. He called the dogs over to him to investigate this particular site. The dogs ultimately 'alerted'. I started to relax a little. This is not what I would call an exact science.'


The very fact that she has said the above is highly suspicious, IMO.

Let's just assume for a moment that Kate knows that something happened in that exact location behind the sofa, and that despite careful cleansing there is a possibility that there is still some trace evidence, not visible to the human eye and not found by any previous police searches. When she is shown the video she is in a highly stressed state of mind. For a moment whilst she is watching the first dog used, Eddie the EVRD, her sub-conscious brain takes over, it assumes that others know what she knows when infact they can't possibly.

So what comes out of her mouth? To discredit that fact that Eddie has made a genuine alert, she passes off the alert as false due to handler bias. But how can that be? Martin Grime doesn't know that anything happened there; Martin Grime doesn't know that miniscule drops of blood have soaked down between the floor tiles; Martin Grime knows nothing when Eddie and he enter 5A, because the PJ know nothing and we have to assume that the British Police know nothing or at least have not told Martin Grime anything. So how could Martin Grime possibly call Eddie over to investigate 'this particular site', as Kate puts it? It couldn't happen. Again, someone might be forgiven for forgetting it couldn't happen if they knew about 'this particular site' themselves, and were, at the moment they made the accusation, under a huge amount of stress.

Eddie alerted to the past presence of a cadaver behind the sofa, full stop. In the history of apartment 5A, whose cadaver could have theoretically/realistically been in that location? The answer isn't hard.

What are the chances that the cadaver dog alerted falsely? Zero, IMO. This was confirmed by Keela who alerted to the presence of blood in exactly the same location. Blood was found, full stop. The two dogs work as a team on separate searches - Eddie first and then Keela to double check Eddie's alerts, for possible backup forensic evidence.

There can be no handler bias unless the handler is aware exactly where the cadaver was or where the trace evidence is.

There can be no suspicion of handler bias unless the accusor knows something the rest of us don't.

Hope that all makes sense.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Sinan19 on 02.09.17 18:52

skyrocket wrote:@Sinan19 - welcome.

The point about handler bias is highly significant, IMO.

During her September 7th arguida PJ interview, Kate McCann was shown the videos of Eddie and then Keela giving strong indications behind the sofa/under the window in the lounge area of 5A. In her book she states the following, 'At one point, the handler directed the dogs over to a spot behind the couch in the sitting room, close to the curtains. He called the dogs over to him to investigate this particular site. The dogs ultimately 'alerted'. I started to relax a little. This is not what I would call an exact science.'


The very fact that she has said the above is highly suspicious, IMO.

Let's just assume for a moment that Kate knows that something happened in that exact location behind the sofa, and that despite careful cleansing there is a possibility that there is still some trace evidence, not visible to the human eye and not found by any previous police searches. When she is shown the video she is in a highly stressed state of mind. For a moment whilst she is watching the first dog used, Eddie the EVRD, her sub-conscious brain takes over, it assumes that others know what she knows when infact they can't possibly.

So what comes out of her mouth? To discredit that fact that Eddie has made a genuine alert, she passes off the alert as false due to handler bias. But how can that be? Martin Grime doesn't know that anything happened there; Martin Grime doesn't know that miniscule drops of blood have soaked down between the floor tiles; Martin Grime knows nothing when Eddie and he enter 5A, because the PJ know nothing and we have to assume that the British Police know nothing or at least have not told Martin Grime anything. So how could Martin Grime possibly call Eddie over to investigate 'this particular site', as Kate puts it? It couldn't happen. Again, someone might be forgiven for forgetting it couldn't happen if they knew about 'this particular site' themselves, and were, at the moment they made the accusation, under a huge amount of stress.

Eddie alerted to the past presence of a cadaver behind the sofa, full stop. In the history of apartment 5A, whose cadaver could have theoretically/realistically been in that location? The answer isn't hard.

What are the chances that the cadaver dog alerted falsely? Zero, IMO. This was confirmed by Keela who alerted to the presence of blood in exactly the same location. Blood was found, full stop. The two dogs work as a team on separate searches - Eddie first and then Keela to double check Eddie's alerts, for possible backup forensic evidence.

There can be no handler bias unless the handler is aware exactly where the cadaver was or where the trace evidence is.

There can be no suspicion of handler bias unless the accusor knows something the rest of us don't.

Hope that all makes sense.

That absolutely makes sense. I think the most I have people talk about bias through the handler was when the dogs alerted at the car they had rented, I think people said there were stickers on it, making it known to the handler which car the McCann's had driven. 

Honestly, I don't need to be convinced. But people seem to desperately try to discredit the dog alerts. Sadly.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Verdi on 02.09.17 21:24

Martin Grimes report - August 2007

Vol IX p. 2483

CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate
exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen
motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human
blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have
been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several
washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of
blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ.
Any 'wetting' once dried will not affect the dog's abilities. Blood that is
subjected to dilution by precipitation or other substantial water source prior to
drying will soak into the ground or other absorbent material. This may dilute
the scent to an unacceptable level for accurate location.

She is trained specifically using human blood obtained through the
haematology department at Sheffield Northern General Hospital. The blood
undergoes strict screening for disease and contamination prior to use. The
samples are from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds and are from both male
and female sources.

Keela's training and licensing is based around the level of 1 positive screening
sample introduced into 200 control articles or 1 positive sample introduced
during 6 hours searching in relation to crime scenes or vehicles.
--------------------

As regards an EVRD dog, it is the scent of cadavar they alert to - that does not equate to a body having been in the same location.  The scent could be by contamination or transferred by an object or air movement.

If you take the time to watch the extensive videos of Eddie and Keela in action, you will see that Martin Grimes does indeed lead the dogs, in apartment 5a, in the McCanns rented villa, in the venue where the clothes were laid out and in the premises containing the vehicles inspected.  This procedure is inevitable - how else would the dogs know where they should be sniffing if the handler doesn't guide them?  Unfortunately the dogs are not able to identify the provenance of the scents they detect;  if you read Martin Grime's detailed reports you will see that the dogs abilities need to be taken in context, it's not a black and white science.

As everyone will hopefully know by now, the problem here is that without corroborative evidence by way of forensic analysis, the dog alerts cannot be considered 100% certain.  That is the important factor which has, I fear, been lost forever by the subsequent closure of the UK's Forensic Science Service - the laboratories commissioned to analyze the samples harvested as a result of Eddie and Keela's diligence.

The subject is complex, not for the neophyte.

Gerry and Kate McCann's reaction to the dogs presence is far more revealing than the dog alerts can tell without corroborative evidence - if anything generated further investigation on this subject, that would be it!  Alas, that is never to be.

"Ask the dogs Sandra ......"  Gerry McCann

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by MayMuse on 02.09.17 23:10

"ask the dogs Sandra" ... Gerry McCann's reply is as much a "giveaway" as his emphatic no! 

"How can you explain the coincidence of scent of  cadaver " 

"Ask the dogs" .... 

As clear as day in Gerry speak ...

" no evidence to support our involvement" ???? 

Woof woof .... 

big grin

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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by skyrocket on 02.09.17 23:30

@Verdi - you're following point emphasizes the point I was making:

If you take the time to watch the extensive videos of Eddie and Keela in action, you will see that Martin Grimes does indeed lead the dogs, in apartment 5a, in the McCanns rented villa, in the venue where the clothes were laid out and in the premises containing the vehicles inspected.  This procedure is inevitable - how else would the dogs know where they should be sniffing if the handler doesn't guide them?


Martin Grime does guide the dogs around - everywhere.

It is Kate's comments regarding 'this particular site' which is revealing - for the reasons given above.

Also, beyond this comment, wouldn't you actually expect any parent to say, 'What does the dog barking mean? Why's he barking there? Are you saying my daughter was injured/killed before she was taken'? Rather than refusing to speak and later admitting to 'relaxing a little' when she saw the actual video of the cadaver and blood dogs alerting. How on earth would she feel more relaxed after seeing the dogs intimating that her 3 year old daughter had at the very least been injured. Most parents would have felt physically sick not more relaxed, IMO. Feeling more relaxed might suggest that the only consideration at the time was whether the police had anything incriminating against her and her husband. This point doesn't even seem to have sunk in by the time the book was written, which is incredible.
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Re: Bring in the dogs! The hypothesis of death is considered. The arrival of the specialists

Post by Verdi on 03.09.17 1:51

@skyrocket - nothing could give me greater pleasure than to know that I'm emphasizing your points winkwink .  Kate McCann's book is an autobiographical chiclit - the ultimate explanation for anything the PJ might or might not know.

Meanwhile back in the land of officialdom  [snipped]..

Procedural Rights and Duties Defendant/ "Arguido" K McCann
10 Processos Vol X Pages 2553 to 2554
also OUTROS APENSOS IX, Volume I Pages 35 to 36

--- In this 'auto' [official document recording an official action] there were shown several films of canine inspections, forensic in character, where can be seen the marking by them of indications of human cadaver smell and blood traces also human, and solely human, as well as the comments of the expert responsible for that inspection activity.

--- The viewing ended and after signs of cadaver odour in her bedroom next to the cupboard and behind the sofa against the window of the living room, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.

--- Also signalled, now by the dog of the detection of human blood behind the sofa mentioned above, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.

--- Signalled the cadaver odour in the car that they rented about one month after the disappearance, registration 59-DA-27, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.

--- Signalled the presence of human blood in the trunk of the same vehicle, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.

--- Confronted with the result of the collection of DNA from MADELEINE, which analysis was carried out by a British laboratory, from behind the sofa and trunk of the vehicle, situations previously described, she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned.


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