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Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

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Re;Three University.

Post by willowthewisp on Mon Feb 20 2017, 14:37

Perhaps what we are seeing is the public being"Manipulated,incited"to show angst against the parents of Madeleine,via Twitter,Facebook,castigating themselves as"Trolls,then they will find the full use of Police Investigatory powers by the Governments forces to bring in prosecutions of hate mail directed towards Kate and Gerry McCann-unfair Trail by the media?
Please do not become embroiled in any incitement methods becoming directed to the afore mentioned parties and hope that"Justice"Can prevail for Madeleine McCann for any guilty parties involved with her disappearance.

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Tony Bennett on Mon Feb 20 2017, 14:43

The article 'Internet trolls cannot be cured' has taken on a more sinister turn since I posted it up on the OP just two says ago.

Because this morning I've found out that a write-up of this appallingly biased and seriously flawed article has appeared in the prestige scientific journal Nature.

For those not familiar with the popularisation of current science topics in the scientific media, the two top journals are Nature and Scientific American. They are like the Times and Daily Telegraph of the scientific world. Any article that appears in Nature will commonly be written up or featured in the mainstream TV and print media. They are the 'mainstream media' of the scientific establishment.

All the more reason to challenge this article.

Here are a few extracts:

------------------


The dark side of social media



Psychologists find that Internet trolls seem impervious to any efforts to change their behaviour.

15 February 2017

http://www.nature.com/news/the-dark-side-of-social-media-1.21478

This May, it will be a full ten years since the abduction of three-year-old Madeleine McCann from her family’s holiday villa in Portugal and the worldwide coverage that followed. Yet, a decade later, people on the Internet still swap 100 messages or so an hour about the case. Many of these accuse and insult her traumatized parents, celebrating their daughter’s disappearance and gloating over their misery.

Such people are among the basest and most antisocial Internet trolls, and in a paper in Computers in Human Behaviour, psychologists describe how they tried to engage with this troll community, to study their attitudes and behaviour, and to work out what makes them tick (J. Synnott et al. Comput. Hum. Behav. 71, 70–78; 2017). Their research put them in the cross-hairs for several weeks, and the trolls did not disappoint. Once the goal of their study was exposed by others in the anti-McCann community, “you need better English to do a PHD luv!” was among the more polite messages sent in response to questions from “the psychology student studying trolls”.

Things got heated when the scientists tried to introduce some science into the debate. Much of the suspicion towards the McCann family was generated by a claim from the Portuguese police that sniffer dogs had found evidence of a cadaver in their holiday apartment (no charges were brought). When one of the psychologists posted a reference to an academic paper showing that such dogs made frequent mistakes in hot weather, and invited discussion, the trolls were more interested in insults and attacks on the researcher’s motive, labelling them a “shill” and blocking them when they tried to steer conversations back to the findings.



-

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by BlueBag on Mon Feb 20 2017, 15:00

They appear to have now omitted the word "tracking". This was the original.


The comments became even more toxic when the scientists tried to introduce some science into the debate. One of the psychologists posted a reference to an academic paper showing that tracking dogs might have made mistakes in finding a body because of the hot weather.


I found the academic paper that referenced tracking dogs and it had no bearing at all - none whatsoever on the work of Eddie and Keela.

What it said was that dogs could sometimes fail to pick up scent in hot weather. No surprise.

What it didn't say was the failure rate after having indicated.

They completely used an academic paper out of context. 

This is not science, it's deception.

Did they define hot weather? Temperature ranges? Indoors? Outdoors?

Nope.

It was bollocks.
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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Verdi on Mon Feb 20 2017, 15:20

The Sun, Tracey Kandohla, might like to write a piece on this explosive revelation - they could interview someone who claims to be a McCann sceptic, with extensive experience on social media, who enjoys exchanging vitriolic rants with like minded reptiles.  It is after all the likes of these people that generate a global categorization of McCann sceptics as 'trolls'.

There must be someone out there willing for a shilling....

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by MayMuse on Mon Feb 20 2017, 15:37

When they say scientific study, how scientific is it? 


It appears to be centred around the McCanns "theory"? And slamming those who do not believe in that "theory" and dissing the dogs. 
Admittedly I only scanned it.

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by BlueBag on Mon Feb 20 2017, 15:37

Another thing from the full article:


The outcome of this search was one of the main reasons the McCann’s came to be regarded as suspects, despite widely held concerns surrounding the reliability of cadaver dogs (Lasseter et al., 2003 and Warren, 2015).

If you find the abstract of the Lasseter paper it says this:


Fresh and skeletonized remains were found equally by the cadaver dogs along with some caveats. Dog handlers affected the reliability of the cadaver dog results. Observations and videotape of the cadaver dogs during field trials showed that they were reliable in finding buried human remains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12762533

Eddie and Keela would each need to be wrong six/seven times in a row in a number of different locations, indoors, in a number of ambient temperatures - TO THE EXCLUSION OF OTHER NON-MCCANN locations.

The people who wrote the Huddersfield Uni paper are not interested in science. They are waving the word "science" and hoping people don't look closely at what they are saying.
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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Mon Feb 20 2017, 15:54

I notice they didn't mention the McCann trolls hounding to death Brenda Leyland.

This case scares me.
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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by BlueBag on Mon Feb 20 2017, 16:22

The McCanns must think think Eddie and Keela are exceptional dogs.



Exceptional because it it quite an (unheard of) achievement for these dogs to give false indications for all of the following items/locations:

1 Cadaver dog ALERTING behind sofa (McCANN'S apartment)
2 Blood dog ALERTING behind sofa (McCANN'S apartment)
3 Matter FOUND behind sofa containing DNA (McCANN'S apartment)
4 DNA re 3 ALL FIVE MARKERS found are 100% COMPATIBLE with MADDIE'S DNA profile
5 Cadaver dog ALERTING to hired car (McCANN'S hire car)
6 Blood dog ALERTING to hired car (McCANN'S hire car)
7 Matter FOUND in hired car containing DNA (McCANN'S hire car)
8 DNA re 7 FIFTEEN OF THE MARKERS are 100% compatible with MADDIE'S DNA profile (McCANN'S hire car)
9 Cadaver dog ALERTING in PARENT'S bedroom near wardrobe (McCANN'S apartment)
10 Cadaver dog ALERTING in flowerbed (McCANN'S apartment)
11 Cadaver dog ALERTING on McCANNS car key (McCANN'S hire car)
12 Cadaver dog ALERTING at WHITE TOP belonging to MOTHER (McCANN'S clothes)
13 Cadaver dog ALERTING at CHECKED trousers of MOTHER (McCANN'S clothes)
14 Cadaver dog ALERTING at RED T-SHIRT with PLANES MOTIF (McCANN'S clothes)
15 Cadaver dog ALERTING at CUDDLE CAT (MADDIE'S toy she was never seen with)
16 Blood dog ALERTING to car key (McCANN'S hire car)
17 Neither CADAVER dog nor BLOOD dog ALERTING at ANY OTHER APARTMENT or CAR

They also didn't indicate anything in apartments 5D, H5, 4G.
They also didn't indicate any other car in the car compound.

Yes they must think these dogs are exceptional.

I think the odds of false indications so many times in a row are astronomical.
Even the worse dogs in academic research give 9% false indication rate and a 75% positive indication rate - that's the worse!, 
The best give 0% false indications.

Exceptional.
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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Roxyroo on Mon Feb 20 2017, 17:34

BlueBag wrote:They appear to have now omitted the word "tracking". This was the original.


The comments became even more toxic when the scientists tried to introduce some science into the debate. One of the psychologists posted a reference to an academic paper showing that tracking dogs might have made mistakes in finding a body because of the hot weather.


I found the academic paper that referenced tracking dogs and it had no bearing at all - none whatsoever on the work of Eddie and Keela.

What it said was that dogs could sometimes fail to pick up scent in hot weather. No surprise.

What it didn't say was the failure rate after having indicated.

They completely used an academic paper out of context. 

This is not science, it's deception.

Did they define hot weather? Temperature ranges? Indoors? Outdoors?

Nope.

It was bollocks.


Well done and thanku BlueBag, for taking the trouble to look up the actual paper. As we probably all expected, utter spin yet again. I, for one, just dont have the time to look up every detail, thats obv exactly what they expect to happen, no one to bothering chasing up the facts.

And thankyou fr last week making me look bk into the micro chipping thing, you were right, in the last ten yrs it hasnt really advanced, but fingers crossed it doesnt!
Sorry off topic, i think! bignono

GoGetEm- scares me too! X

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by MayMuse on Mon Feb 20 2017, 17:46

Get'emGonçalo wrote:I notice they didn't mention the McCann trolls hounding to death Brenda Leyland.

This case scares me.
This "case" has more connotations and connections than first believed in my opinion. 

RIP Brenda Leyland

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by MayMuse on Mon Feb 20 2017, 17:49

BlueBag wrote:The McCanns must think think Eddie and Keela are exceptional dogs.



Exceptional because it it quite an (unheard of) achievement for these dogs to give false indications for all of the following items/locations:

1 Cadaver dog ALERTING behind sofa (McCANN'S apartment)
2 Blood dog ALERTING behind sofa (McCANN'S apartment)
3 Matter FOUND behind sofa containing DNA (McCANN'S apartment)
4 DNA re 3 ALL FIVE MARKERS found are 100% COMPATIBLE with MADDIE'S DNA profile
5 Cadaver dog ALERTING to hired car (McCANN'S hire car)
6 Blood dog ALERTING to hired car (McCANN'S hire car)
7 Matter FOUND in hired car containing DNA (McCANN'S hire car)
8 DNA re 7 FIFTEEN OF THE MARKERS are 100% compatible with MADDIE'S DNA profile (McCANN'S hire car)
9 Cadaver dog ALERTING in PARENT'S bedroom near wardrobe (McCANN'S apartment)
10 Cadaver dog ALERTING in flowerbed (McCANN'S apartment)
11 Cadaver dog ALERTING on McCANNS car key (McCANN'S hire car)
12 Cadaver dog ALERTING at WHITE TOP belonging to MOTHER (McCANN'S clothes)
13 Cadaver dog ALERTING at CHECKED trousers of MOTHER (McCANN'S clothes)
14 Cadaver dog ALERTING at RED T-SHIRT with PLANES MOTIF (McCANN'S clothes)
15 Cadaver dog ALERTING at CUDDLE CAT (MADDIE'S toy she was never seen with)
16 Blood dog ALERTING to car key (McCANN'S hire car)
17 Neither CADAVER dog nor BLOOD dog ALERTING at ANY OTHER APARTMENT or CAR

They also didn't indicate anything in apartments 5D, H5, 4G.
They also didn't indicate any other car in the car compound.

Yes they must think these dogs are exceptional.

I think the odds of false indications so many times in a row are astronomical.
Even the worse dogs in academic research give 9% false indication rate and a 75% positive indication rate - that's the worse!, 
The best give 0% false indications.

Exceptional.
Exceptional and extraordinarily clever hounds, successfully hounding what they are trained to do!
Thanks for this @BlueBag

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Tony Bennett on Mon Feb 20 2017, 17:57

In the light of the excellent research done on this thread, and in view of the discovery today that this totally flawed paper has appeared in arguably the world's most-read popular scientific journal (Nature), I do not think that the appearance of this article at this time is 'just one of those things'.

It has a most definite feel of having been planned a long time ago. 

The involvement of a student researcher who works in the same Portsmouth University department as Dr Sharon 'The-Mcanns-are-100%-innocent' Leal must be regarded as doubly suspect.

The one thing they may not have anticipated is the Portuguese Supreme Court ruling that the McCanns has 'not been cleared' and adjudging Amaral's book to be 'not lbelous' just as they were getting ready to promote the article.

It's hard to know which of the many serious flaws in this article is the most serious, but I can't get out of my head the ludicrous idea that they confronted the 'anti-McCann trolls' with so-called 'science' about the alleged unreliability of cadaver dogs.

Had the researchers also been talking to Dr Gerry McCann?



ETA:  @ Roxyroo     You credited BlueBag with finding the so-called 'scientific' article about the cadaver dogs quoted in this flawed article, but we should also credit ChippyM who at Post No #48 had also looked up the reference and found it to be anything but what was claimed. But praise be that we have two such dedicated researchers on the forum PLUS the excellent work done by loopzadaloop in cutting-and-pasting the entire load of garbage for us to examine in the first place and also to sallypelt for her help.

The forum-owner is very clear that we should point out to all the editors, publishers, promoters and researchers associated with this article the sheer scale of dishonesty and departure from academic standards that it reveals. We probably have sufficient material already on this matter to formulate a good response to it.

But please don't let that deter any other member here from contributing further to the discussion

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by MayMuse on Mon Feb 20 2017, 17:57

Hashtagifyme 

An analytic correlation site reporting the all time 10 hashtags, trends, popularity etc 
This one is for McCann 

http://hashtagify.me/hashtag/mccann

What Jamaica has to do with it is anyones guess? 
Or Bob Marley?

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by BlueBag on Mon Feb 20 2017, 18:57

ETA:  @ Roxyroo     You credited BlueBag with finding the so-called 'scientific' article about the cadaver dogs quoted in this flawed article, but we should also credit ChippyM who at Post No #48 had also looked up the reference and found it to be anything but what was claimed. But praise be that we have two such dedicated researchers on the forum PLUS the excellent work done by loopzadaloop in cutting-and-pasting the entire load of garbage for us to examine in the first place and also to sallypelt for her help.

Absolutely!!!!!

I'm a chronic serial poster (short burst machine gunner) but I think others made better contributions.

Thanks to all.

(The 17 points about indications I made were not my own work either, I think they were on Facebook - sorry I didn't credit it).
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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by ChippyM on Mon Feb 20 2017, 19:14

Thanks Tony and everyone else for the kind words and research.

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Roxyroo on Mon Feb 20 2017, 21:38

Thankyou ChippyM and BlueBag.
I.m hopeful today the tide is turning.
roses

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by plebgate on Tue Feb 21 2017, 10:32

Will Tony be sending a copy of his letter to editors of scientific papers to the governing body of Psychologists?

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by woodbine on Tue Feb 21 2017, 12:54

This 'research' stinks of desperation. The Mccanns are losing the public relations battle. Every day more and more people become aware of what a farce this case is. Even a master of spin cannot control the internet, and they are left with labeling all people who question the case as incurable trolls. I

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Tony Bennett on Tue Feb 21 2017, 17:27

plebgate wrote:Will Tony be sending a copy of his letter to editors of scientific papers to the governing body of psychologists?
At the moment I am gathering information about the article, its contents, its flaws and its genesis.

It's not been decided if any letter will be sent by me or by Jill or by someone else.

I think the proper way of proceeding is to put all the serious flaws to all of the researchers, all of those peers who presumably peer-reviewed this travesty of a research study, and all the publishers of it.

Both the Universities of Huddersfield and Portsmouth have academic boards and other procedures for dealing with flawed academic articles.

We will be writing to Nature and asking why on earth they published it. 

Part of my research will be to see if any of the researchers belong to any professional bodies; I don't know at present if there is, for example, an Associaition of Chartered Forensic Psychologists.

I will report back on this thread when we have decided how to proceed, but in the meantime, for anyone new visiting this thread, please look upthread at loopzdaloop's posting of the actual article, and at ChippyM's masterly analysis of the article's major flaws...and please add any more suggestions and comments.

Thanks

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by plebgate on Tue Feb 21 2017, 17:40

Thanks for the info. Tony.  Very much appreciated.

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by sallypelt on Tue Feb 21 2017, 17:49

I have dipped my toe into this threat, but haven't read it in depth, so I don't know if the answer to my question is somewhere on this thread. And my question is, is Elsevier the publishers of this article?

Elsevier is now a part of the RELX Group, known until 2015 as Reed Elsevier, with its headquarters in Amsterdam.






Revenue: 2.07 billion GBP (2015)



Copyright © 2017 Elsevier, except certain content provided by third party Terms and Conditions Privacy Policy

When persecuted scholars sought to be heard, Elsevier chose to follow its unceasing commitment to advance knowledge.

https://www.elsevier.com/

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Three University

Post by willowthewisp on Tue Feb 21 2017, 17:59

MayMuse wrote:Hashtagifyme 

An analytic correlation site reporting the all time 10 hashtags, trends, popularity etc 
This one is for McCann 

http://hashtagify.me/hashtag/mccann

What Jamaica has to do with it is anyones guess? 
Or Bob Marley?
Jamaica,is the Country that one DCI Hamish Campbell,Operation Grange, has chosen to further his Police expertise to after retiring from the Metropolitan Police Service,perhaps they need to investigate the former unsolved Murder cases that Hamish has worked on for meeting the Policing standards in Jamaica?

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by ChippyM on Wed Feb 22 2017, 13:35

I've noticed some similarities in the Discussion and Conclusion part of the paper with what Gerry McCann said on radio 4 in 2014.  ( in the Guardian 2014)  

"He also blamed the press for inciting trolls, renewing his calls for the new industry-backed regulator Ipso to be scrapped and replaced by an official body established by royal charter.
I think some of the internet trolling is fuelled partly by the newspaper reporting. If it was more responsible I think we would have less of the former,” McCann said."
  
And the 'Research' says;

"trolls are “cultural scavengers” who essentially feast on existing issues of controversy which first pass through the media filter. This was particularly evident in the case of the anti-McCanns given that the trolling was preceded by a series of equally provocative and unsubstantiated news reports implicating the McCanns in Madeleine’s disappearance, and was thereafter fed by media reports condemning the trolls’ actions"


 Gerry McCann in this same 2014 interview talks about 'damage' being done by the trolls and in the 'research' conclusion we have the same word.


I’m glad to see the law around this area is being reviewed, but I do think we need to make examples of people who are causing damage.”


The research concludes;


" What remains clear, however, is the damaging impact the McCann trolls’ behaviour has had on those victimised, both online and offline, necessitating the continuation of research exploring the way in which aggressive forms of trolling materialise, so that we might consequently establish ways in which to effectively deal with them."


So have the researchers read Gerry McCanns interview, paraphrased it and turned it in to their discussion and conclusion....without referencing it?
             Now why would they do that? A whole PHD research project that just happens to comes to the same conclusions about trolls Gerry McCann did in 2014.

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by MayMuse on Wed Feb 22 2017, 13:47

ChippyM wrote:I've noticed some similarities in the Discussion and Conclusion part of the paper with what Gerry McCann said on radio 4 in 2014.  ( in the Guardian 2014)  

"He also blamed the press for inciting trolls, renewing his calls for the new industry-backed regulator Ipso to be scrapped and replaced by an official body established by royal charter.
I think some of the internet trolling is fuelled partly by the newspaper reporting. If it was more responsible I think we would have less of the former,” McCann said."
  
And the 'Research' says;

"trolls are “cultural scavengers” who essentially feast on existing issues of controversy which first pass through the media filter. This was particularly evident in the case of the anti-McCanns given that the trolling was preceded by a series of equally provocative and unsubstantiated news reports implicating the McCanns in Madeleine’s disappearance, and was thereafter fed by media reports condemning the trolls’ actions"


 Gerry McCann in this same 2014 interview talks about 'damage' being done by the trolls and in the 'research' conclusion we have the same word.


I’m glad to see the law around this area is being reviewed, but I do think we need to make examples of people who are causing damage.”


The research concludes;


" What remains clear, however, is the damaging impact the McCann trolls’ behaviour has had on those victimised, both online and offline, necessitating the continuation of research exploring the way in which aggressive forms of trolling materialise, so that we might consequently establish ways in which to effectively deal with them."


So have the researchers read Gerry McCanns interview, paraphrased it and turned it in to their discussion and conclusion....without referencing it?
             Now why would they do that? A whole PHD research project that just happens to comes to the same conclusions about trolls Gerry McCann did in 2014.
Yes and that "damage" was Brenda Leylands death! 


It's all about "free speech"

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Re: Three university forensic psychologists say > 'Anti-McCann Trolls Cannot be Cured'

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 22 2017, 14:14

woodbine wrote:This 'research' stinks of desperation. The Mccanns are losing the public relations battle. Every day more and more people become aware of what a farce this case is. Even a master of spin cannot control the internet, and they are left with labeling all people who question the case as incurable trolls. I
I wanted to add that GM is now a professor,  mixing in national and international academic circles. According to his own profile statement "Professor McCann directs a very active imaging research programme with funding of £9M from the British Heart Foundation,  MRC the NIHR and industry. In 2016 the British Heart Foundation advertised the position of personal chair at Huddersfield,  looking for an individual with 'outstanding cardiovascular research achievements and leadership qualities' According to their own blurb,  'The University of Huddersfield has a string of partnerships with industry and practice,  3M Buckley Innovation Centre, Astra Zeneca and the NHS.
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