The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™️ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann. Please note that your username should be different from your email address!

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

(Please note: if you register with the sole intention of disrupting or spamming, please don't expect to be a member for too long.)

Many thanks,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Tuesday beach walk

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 30.12.16 15:09

I find Gerry and Kate’s walk to the beach that Tuesday afternoon very odd indeed.
Jane Tanner (rogatory) says about Gerry and Kate - “they were carrying the twins and dragging Madeleine so I think then after that they decided they’d have breakfast in their room after their first day because it was a bit of a, not an ordeal, but it was a bit of a trek to get back.” (To and from the Millennium)
That walk takes approx. 10 mins. More or less the same as it takes to get to the beach.
Madeleines crèche records that day have her playing mini tennis , and  doing mini aerobics before lunch.
But yet, Kate and Gerry decide to take her (and the twins in the buggy) for a 10 minute walk to the beach, (and 10 minutes back) where they get 5 icecreams.
Then the poor girl has to do the 10 minute walk again, (and back), directly after lunch as part of the crèche schedule which includes  getting an icecream.
Strange indeed.
And may I ask, does anyone know where the Mc Canns got the pushchair from?
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by Verdi on 30.12.16 20:21

roz wrote:I find Gerry and Kate’s walk to the beach that Tuesday afternoon very odd indeed.
Jane Tanner (rogatory) says about Gerry and Kate - “they were carrying the twins and dragging Madeleine so I think then after that they decided they’d have breakfast in their room after their first day because it was a bit of a, not an ordeal, but it was a bit of a trek to get back.” (To and from the Millennium)
That walk takes approx. 10 mins. More or less the same as it takes to get to the beach.
Madeleines crèche records that day have her playing mini tennis , and  doing mini aerobics before lunch.
But yet, Kate and Gerry decide to take her (and the twins in the buggy) for a 10 minute walk to the beach, (and 10 minutes back) where they get 5 icecreams.
Then the poor girl has to do the 10 minute walk again, (and back), directly after lunch as part of the crèche schedule which includes  getting an icecream.
Strange indeed.
And may I ask, does anyone know where the Mc Canns got the pushchair from?
Jane Tanner was referring to breakfast on the morning of Sunday 29th April 2007, I quote..

4078    “Am I right in thinking you went to the Millennium?”

Reply    “We went to the Millennium for breakfast yeah. I think that first morning on the Sunday everybody, the whole group went that first, well I’m not sure if Dave and Fi did but I know Kate and Gerry went that first morning to the Millennium Restaurant and I think they found it quite a, a trail to get because they’d got three kids, the ones that were two, they were carrying the twins and dragging Madeleine so I think then after that they decided they’d have breakfast in their room after their first day because it was a bit of a, not an ordeal, but it was a bit of a trek to get back.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 6190
Reputation : 3434
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 30.12.16 20:32

Re Pushchair/s
The pushchairs (maybe 2) could have been borrowed by Gerry and Kate from the Paynes and Oldfields, but why I wonder was a simple thing like that not mentioned by any of the Tapas 9 in any of their statements?
And I wonder which 2 children were actually in them and which one was walking?
What really is that Tuesday about that they all don’t remember it?
May, 7th 2007  Jeremy Wilkins deposition
The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I learnt to be John and one of Jerry's friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, and tall with greying hair. From previous conversations I learnt him to be a diabetics specialist.
(Bridget O'Donnell - Friday 14 December 2007)
The next morning, we made our way to breakfast and met one of the Doctors, the one who had come round in the night. His young daughter looked up at us from her pushchair.
David PAYNE  11.04.08
"I think the only thing that probably became apparent about the Millennium where we ate was that that was a distance away from where we were staying and in terms of you know the logistics of getting from where we were to there with the small children and you know the pushchairs when some of them were perhaps a little bit old to go in the pushchair and wanted to walk, which it was just a little bit too far for them to walk.
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 31.12.16 8:30

What I am getting at is that a pushchair/buggy is one way of transporting a child’s body.
Various points along the walk to the beach allow for a pick-up by a third party.
In case of any witnesses the Mc Canns had to tell of this Tuesday walk to the ‘beach’ or wherever.
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by Tennison on 31.12.16 8:44



Especially when you cover the child.
avatar
Tennison

Posts : 19
Reputation : 26
Join date : 2015-10-16

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 31.12.16 8:50

Exactly!
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 31.12.16 8:55

Do you know did the McCanns take that double pushchair with them to PdaL?
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 31.12.16 9:09

roz wrote:Do you know did the McCanns take that double pushchair with them to PdaL?

Not according to Kate:

Mrs McCann added: “In fact, we were all . . . going to go up to the Millennium again, that was with the kids, which is what we did the first night. It was just because the walk was so long and we didn’t have a buggy and the kids were tired by that time.”

http://truthformadeleine.com/2008/04/mccanns-left-children-in-holiday-flat-%E2%80%98because-we-did-not-have-a-buggy/
avatar
Get'emGonçalo


Posts : 9737
Reputation : 4913
Join date : 2009-11-25
Location : parallel universe

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 31.12.16 9:17

Thankyou. Then no harm in any ONE of the Tapas 7 saying that they lent the McCanns their buggy one day to go to the beach. But they do not. Why not?
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 31.12.16 9:44

Oh and just to add ; We know that RM and MW could not have been involved in the 'pick-up' of the child's dead body that Tuesday afternoon, as they were both in M's house having a wee chat over a wee cup of tea!
Erm....
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 31.12.16 9:47

And then we have this ….. (PJ Files)
Manuel informs us that the day after Madeleine's disappearance at about 4 or 5 pm when he was travelling on the ICI road at kilometre 718, he saw two stationary cars, an Audi A3 driven by a man and a green car (very special green colour) driven by a blonde woman. Subsequently we showed him a series of photographs that were in our possession amongst which the one with the closes resemblance was that of a woman who turns out to be Murat's girlfriend, Michaela Walczuch.

The cars were stationary; the green one was inside a farm where two elderly men live and separated by a metal fence and on the pavement of the road was the Audi. When Manuel drove past in his lorry he saw how the woman passed a bundle wrapped in a blanket over the fence, being convinced that this was a child. (Because of the way she was holding it and because it was wrapped in the blanket).

It should be noted that Manuel's manifestations seem reliable to us, in part because of the fear that he showed before and during our meeting as well as due to the successive contacts that we have had with him and the interest that he has always shown.

Manuel preferred to remain anonymous given that he was very frightened and did not want to give us his surnames. He drives a grey Renault Laguna, number plate 53 92 RF. In order for us to contact him he provided the email address of a relative:
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by roz on 13.06.17 13:53

I have revised my thinking about G and K’s supposed visit to the beach on Tuesday.
No one mentions that it rained on Tuesday (except for the Mc Canns). Tennis goes on ahead in the morning and afternoon.
But on Wednesday there was rain in the morning.  Morning tennis was cancelled, but re-scheduled for the afternoon if the courts were dry.
Was this the day that they took a walk to the beach, and not Tuesday? (Is there some truth in their stories – even though all the Tapas 9 like to mix up their days a bit)?
And then I wondered, if they did, - Why would they take a walk to the beach this wet cloudy day?
Perhaps they had an ulterior motive; was it possible that this was to have been ‘abduction day’?
(Was Madeleine’s body removed from the area on Tuesday –‘discrepancy day’)?
Gerry’s phone is pretty active from early Wednesday morning.
Kate signs the crèche sheet taking the twins out at 12.25pm. (Cat B has filled in the space for Madeleine’s parent’s signature 12.30pm – very possibly blank spaces are filled in at the end of each day by CB).
Did they proceed on down to the beach with the twins? (It does not make sense to me that they would have borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner for the trip; if both parents were going, why not borrow two single buggies so that each parent could manoeuvre a buggy down and around those cobbled streets, but anyway….)?
 
They went to the beach for about 20 minutes, where they paddled a bit.
K – “The weather wasn’t great: in fact, on the beach it started to rain”.
G- “During this time the weather changed with a cloudy sky and cold, they went to an esplanade of a cafe next to the beach, on the left, where they bought five ice-creams and two drinks”.
Did they deliberately order 5 ice creams when perhaps they only needed 4?
K –book-“Before heading up the road, we stopped at a shop on the corner of Rua da Praia and Avenida dos Pescadores, one of several open-air, market-style stalls, as Gerry needed a pair of sunglasses. . .”
 
Was Gerry on the look-out for ‘potential abductors’?  He was certainly able later to give a detailed description of the ‘shabby’ and ‘unshaven’ guitar player around the esplanade.
So what happened?  Was it simply that they found it impossible to sound the ‘abduction’ alarm when the child to be abducted was not seen by anyone on the beach/esplanade?
 
And why mention this miserable little event at all? Was it perhaps because they had been noticed by the shabby unshaven guitar player, and ice-cream seller, and felt they had to tell of this trip?
Was their failed mission used as an opportunity to tell their little story of buying the sunglasses needed for the important ‘last photo’?
 
K- "Having polished off her ice-cream, Madeleine asked if she could go back to Mini Club now, please."
So off they went on their return journey, struggling wretchedly uphill with the buggy, back up those cobbled streets, stopping to buy the sunglasses.
Gerry goes to the apartment to get changed into his ‘whites’ for the tennis court at 2.30pm. Kate returns the twins to the Tapas crèche-2.40pm. She then heads off to sign the Mini club crèche sheet at 2.45pm.
Not a great day at all.
avatar
roz

Posts : 143
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2016-11-29
Location : Finland (but Irish)

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by sharonl on 13.06.17 23:23

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
roz wrote:Do you know did the McCanns take that double pushchair with them to PdaL?

Not according to Kate:

Mrs McCann added: “In fact, we were all . . . going to go up to the Millennium again, that was with the kids, which is what we did the first night. It was just because the walk was so long and we didn’t have a buggy and the kids were tired by that time.”

http://truthformadeleine.com/2008/04/mccanns-left-children-in-holiday-flat-%E2%80%98because-we-did-not-have-a-buggy/

Kate stated somewhere that they took the kids to the beach for the afternoon in a buggy that they had hired and that the kids were returned to the crèche for the last hour. 

Crèche records contradict this as they show the kids being collected at lunch time and immediately returned to the crèche as soon as it re-opened at 2.30pm and they stayed there until 5.30pm.

There are a number of questions that could be asked about this.  To start with, the buggy was covered.  The twins were over the age of two and the weather was probably mildly warm that day.

How far away was the beach?
Did the children really need a buggy?
Would you really cover up two year olds on a warm day on holiday?
Are there any witnesses to say that Madeleine or any of the McCanns were at the beach that afternoon?
What was really in the buggy?
Where did the McCanns really go?
Who, if anyone, did the McCanns meet?
Was the buggy available for inspection by the PJ and Eddie and Keela?

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 4092
Reputation : 715
Join date : 2009-12-29

http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by bobbin on 14.06.17 7:36

sharonl wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:
roz wrote:Do you know did the McCanns take that double pushchair with them to PdaL?

Not according to Kate:

Mrs McCann added: “In fact, we were all . . . going to go up to the Millennium again, that was with the kids, which is what we did the first night. It was just because the walk was so long and we didn’t have a buggy and the kids were tired by that time.”

http://truthformadeleine.com/2008/04/mccanns-left-children-in-holiday-flat-%E2%80%98because-we-did-not-have-a-buggy/

Kate stated somewhere that they took the kids to the beach for the afternoon in a buggy that they had hired and that the kids were returned to the crèche for the last hour. 

Crèche records contradict this as they show the kids being collected at lunch time and immediately returned to the crèche as soon as it re-opened at 2.30pm and they stayed there until 5.30pm.

There are a number of questions that could be asked about this.  To start with, the buggy was covered.  The twins were over the age of two and the weather was probably mildly warm that day.

How far away was the beach?
Did the children really need a buggy?
Would you really cover up two year olds on a warm day on holiday?
Are there any witnesses to say that Madeleine or any of the McCanns were at the beach that afternoon?
What was really in the buggy?
Where did the McCanns really go?
Who, if anyone, did the McCanns meet?
Was the buggy available for inspection by the PJ and Eddie and Keela?
If they hired a buggy, presumably, the hiring involved a financial arrangement. If so, there would have to be some record keeping, so that any transferred payments didn't go astray.
Or, could they have just 'borrowed one' from the Mark Warner complex, having to just sign it out, and back.
Either way, where is the documentation that would go with such a 'use' of a buggy or was it MW policy to just leave buggies sitting around, singles, and doubles in case of twins or two very young children, waiting to be 'used' and hoping that such equipment wouldn't go astray without being noticed, like supermarket trolleys that finish up in the hands of someone who can see a useful 'freebee' just waiting to be lifted.
Was it possible, or thought possible, that someone, anyone, might have seen the McCs with a baby buggy, heading towards the beach. If so, can this timing be checked against buggy loan records.

bobbin

Posts : 2050
Reputation : 141
Join date : 2011-12-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by sar on 14.06.17 11:15

roz wrote:Thankyou. Then no harm in any ONE of the Tapas 7 saying that they lent the McCanns their buggy one day to go to the beach. But they do not. Why not?

+1 roz, not what someone says, but what they don't say...

sar

Posts : 667
Reputation : 220
Join date : 2013-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by Verdi on 14.06.17 13:32

In the afternoon Gerry and I decided to take the children down to the beach. To be honest, I think they’d have been just as happy to go back to their clubs, but we wanted to do something slightly different with them, just the five of us. We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 6190
Reputation : 3434
Join date : 2015-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Tuesday beach walk

Post by bobbin on 14.06.17 15:25

Verdi wrote:In the afternoon Gerry and I decided to take the children down to the beach. To be honest, I think they’d have been just as happy to go back to their clubs, but we wanted to do something slightly different with them, just the five of us. We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner to make the walk easier for Sean and Amelie.

madeleine by KATE MCCANN
Is this book 'borrowed' the only source of the apparent buggy trip to the beach. Where did the idea come from that it was 'hired'. Was 'hired' mentioned in some newspaper article, in police interviews or other. Anyone know of origin of 'hired' ?
Just to add, if the double buggy was freely available thanks to Mark Warner, why couldn't the McCs borrow one for the week and go to Millenium for breakfast.

bobbin

Posts : 2050
Reputation : 141
Join date : 2011-12-05

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum