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The House on the Black Rock

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by HiDeHo on Fri 30 Dec 2016 - 23:51

@Verdi wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:
Your prerogative to an opinion is noted and respected Verdi.

Whether this location is anything of note is one thing but I would be interested to see why you consider it inaccurate,?

Mark Harrison specifically makes note of it and that, for me gives some kind of credibility worthy of looking at it more closely.

I have seen many replies(elsewhere)  to this blog and so far they are all very positive, which tells me that though you may not find it worthwhile a good majority are as impressed with the research as I am.
1.  How kind.

2.  I have not said anything about a location being inaccurate.

3.  Mark Harrison noted a considerable number of locations he felt worthy of further attention. 

3.  Good - all is not lost!

I was not being kind Verdi, I was being respectful. My mistake I should have said ' but I would be interested to see why you consider it (research) inaccurate.

I am not here to debate others' opinions about whether this should have been posted or not. It appears to me that there are efforts to discredit the person as well as the effort and research. A lot of effort has gone into this research and whether others prefer to minimise it and pass it off as not 'worthy' of note, is not something I choose to discuss.

Jill posted this as she felt it worthy of discussion and I am in agreement with her as is the likelihood that many others have an interest including Sharon.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by BlueBag on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 6:42

@BlueBag wrote:OK.. OK... maybe I'm thick.

But in what way has this research moved us forward?
Anyone?
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by HKP on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 10:58

Perhaps this piece of research should have been placed in the 'theories' section as it's not latest news as such. As a general observation we seem to be losing the art of debate, too many people just stating the 'wrongness' of others post and dismissing them out of hand.

@Verdi
Can you give an indication of the inaccuracies etc. in Ben's work, that may be helpful for others.
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Pyrite on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 12:10

@HKP wrote:As a general observation we seem to be losing the art of debate, too many people just stating the 'wrongness' of others post and dismissing them out of hand.

Couldn't agree more.....there are individuals here with an extraordinary amount of knowledge and I'm personally benefiting from that having been away from the forum for a number of years now....Thank you.

However, while in the main I'm enjoying my time here, I'd like to see a little more patience and a little more civility....otherwise all you will be left with is the same members talking among themselves while others feel it's not worth participating. 

I also think it's important to try not to get stuck in a particular mindset - always be willing to challenge your own beliefs and understanding.....always based on current available evidence of course. 

drinks Happy new year everyone.....lets try and make this year the year for justice for Madeleine.  high5
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 12:32

I see it differently - too many people just stating the rightness of others posts and dismissing the possibility that it might be wrong.  I sometimes wonder if people actually read what they blindly support.  In addition, because this piece of 'research' (for the want of a better word) has arrived on the forum via the name HiDeHo, she has got caught in the firing line and she didn't even write it, even though she thinks the hypothesis worthy of further thought.

I've made myself perfectly clear as to why I find this 'research' inaccurate.  Just take a look at the opening words, I quote..

"Rocha Negra, in English, translates as ‘Black Rock’.

It’s a title that seems made for a movie. Yet, I have found myself increasingly of the belief that one small property sat atop the Rocha Negra may have initially been used to occult the cadaver of Madeleine McCann.

Why, and how?

This discovery started when I was recounting a couple of well known events in the McCann case: the arrival of Danie Krugel, and Kate McCann’s dream of seeing Madeleine’s body lying on a hill. Both of these things would appear to be related, in a way I was not expecting to find."


So in that vein we continue along a labyrinth of pings, pongs and triangulations, up hill and down vale stopping en-route to visit an old monument a derelict building site and a more recently built villa.  We draw on old newspaper articles to quote the unreliable words of team McCann whilst 'researching' every possible name/organisation that could maybe connect in some way to any of the main players and those in the audience + a few strays dragged in for convenience sake, which frankly all ends in a cul-de-sac.  To add to the already convoluted story, we are fed with extensive detail about who had telephone contact with who without any evidence as to the provenance of this information, all nicely corroborated by the authors private unconfirmed contacts.  This is an epic work of 'Textusa' proportions - all because of an alleged dream had by Kate McCann and an untested magic body locating machine in the custody of a curious specimen of South African origin.

Do I think it likely that a location on Rocha Negra was used to occult the cadavar of Madeleine McCann [sic]?  No I don't, although I don't dismiss the possibility out of hand - almost anything is possible but it needs to be supported by hard evidence, critical thinking etc., not by inaccuracy, supposition, speculation and a vivid imagination.  Apart from anything else, Kate McCann spoke of Rocha Negra on many occasions - would she purposely draw attention to her daughters 'occult' (curious word to use) location?  That's leakage a step too far even by the standards of statement analysis a la Hobs.

Now, I've spent far too much time on a road to nowhere, so will gladly retire from the subject until such times as someone can produce any evidence/information that might make the theory more plausible and worthy of interest.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Pyrite on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 14:08

@Verdi wrote:I see it differently - too many people just stating the rightness of others posts and dismissing the possibility that it might be wrong.  I sometimes wonder if people actually read what they blindly support. 

I see that also....I really don't think you see it any differently to me Verdi and I suspect a great many others also.

I spent thousands of hours talking to thousands of people on the Hollie Greig case and so did my associates. Many were absolutely convinced and no matter what you said (and proved with undeniable evidence) they were never going to change their minds - so, you move on. If they became disruptive, you remove them....and that's what quite rightly happens here. 

However, very many people were extremely grateful for us taking the time to explain the facts and showing them how what they thought was true, was not. In those people we had now built allies and friends and some went on to help us.  

There are some people here Verdi that don't have your in depth knowledge yet still think certain things are worthy of discussion. Dismissing them out of hand is unhelpful and discouraging, and its not beyond the realms of possibility that "not so keen an eye" can pick up on something which can sometimes be easily missed by the more professional researcher. Usually its a small thing, a little thing that the professional slots into a bigger picture.  

Having said that, and from my limited knowledge, I tend to agree with you this subject as I don't see any real hard evidence. To boot, there is most definitely a whole bunch of individuals out there fanatical about ritual murder....esp of children. 

Anyhow, how's your health these days? Hope you are feeling better.  airkiss
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by thingy on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 14:30

How does the Amaral's fridge/bodily fluids theory fit in with story?

Was the fridge already in the derelict building, plugged in and waiting for Madeleine's corpse?

Or did Gerry take Madeleine's corpse already in a fridge to the derelict building on the back of a bike, as in my avatar?

Then he went back up the hill in the hire car 3 weeks later to collect Madeleine's corpse and that's when it started to thaw out?

Why not leave the corpse in the fridge and put the fridge in the hire car?
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by BlueBag on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 15:07

@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:OK.. OK... maybe I'm thick.

But in what way has this research moved us forward?
Anyone?
...at all?
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 15:17

@Pyrite wrote:
Anyhow, how's your health these days? Hope you are feeling better.  airkiss
Nice of you to ask but I think you've got the wrong person.

You say..

"There are some people here Verdi that don't have your in depth knowledge yet still think certain things are worthy of discussion. Dismissing them out of hand is unhelpful and discouraging...."

Of course, everyone is entitled to express an opinion, I have no truck with that but likewise if they proffer an opinion (myself included) that doesn't conform to established facts, evidence, experience etc.,  they must expect to be challenged - that's how debate proceeds.  What's the point of everyone agreeing on every topic, it leads nowhere but a full stop.  I haven't dismissed the topic out of hand, I've offered an explanation as to why I disagree with the content - I now wait for someone to come up with a valid reason why this particular issue should be taken seriously in quest of the truth and moving the work of this forum forward.

Let's not provide ammunition for the forum critics.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by HiDeHo on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 15:35

I agree that this theories and debate section is where this thread should be, particularly with a content that deserves discussion.

I'm not sure that the reference and comments to my name having brought this to the forum and blindly believing that this location IS where Madeleine's body was taken for a short time.  I have made it clear that, when I made the post in my FB group, that I don't spend time trying to solve the case or enter into speculative discussions on theories.

I don't allow that content in the group.

I try to remain focused on the files and my admin spend their time removing speculation and pointing the 'newbies' and members to the appropriate links from the files. However, we use discretion and I felt that Bens RESEARCH was worthy of posting on my group.

What many people dont realise is that researching can take days/weeks/months and often the result is one post.  When researching we don't know where the research is going to lead us or what it will 'tell' us.  

For me, its not about thinking up a possibility and making it 'fit'.  I lay out the facts from the files.  The witness statements, direct quoted sources, interviews, the 'book' blog, diary and decide if it shows a possibility of what may have happened when they are all compared.

Research is about offering information that is related to the case and in this case Ben offered us some very interesting information that is worthy of discussion to see whether it could have some validity within the case.  To find that Mark Harrison had referred to this property gives it more credibility.

I do not blindly believe anything and am uncomfortable to have been accused of that.  I am impressed with the RESEARCH and have made no knowing comment to suggest that his findings confirm anything.  That is why a discussion could help.

Ben has made no effort to confirm it is where Maddie was taken, only that it is a possibility that has, until now, not been considered.

As a researcher myself, and to all the other great researchers out there we do not expect to find the answer to anything.  For myself I offer the groundwork for others to decide if their theories are a possibility.

Jill brought the post to the forum and many people have an interest.  

The only comments that are worthy of the thread are those which allow the findings to be considered or an explanation as to why they could not be valid..  It is important to respect those that spend their time offering research to others that don't have the time or knowledge to find it themselves.

Whether of value or not regarding Maddie possibly moved there, a discussion is of value rather than blindly claiming its not worthy of discussion.

Thats for individuals to decide by participating in the thread or not.
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Pyrite on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 16:22

@Verdi wrote:
@Pyrite wrote:
Anyhow, how's your health these days? Hope you are feeling better.  airkiss
Nice of you to ask but I think you've got the wrong person.

My apologies. 

Being challenged on an opinion is one thing, how its done is quite another - unfortunately this alone gives the forum critics ammunition.....and from what I can/have seen, it has done so for some while now. 

I will leave it there.....

In the meantime, has anyone ever spoke to, or attempted to speak to Susan Puren?
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Tony Bennett on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 19:00

@Pyrite wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Pyrite wrote:
Anyhow, how's your health these days? Hope you are feeling better.  airkiss
Nice of you to ask but I think you've got the wrong person.

My apologies. 

Being challenged on an opinion is one thing, how it's done is quite another - unfortunately this alone gives the forum critics ammunition...and from what I can/have seen, it has done so for some while now. 

I will leave it there.....

In the meantime, has anyone ever spoke to, or attempted to speak to Susan Puren?
I think most of the 'forum critics' are over in MMM (candyfloss's fourm) which you have also joined. I am told they have 276 pages on several threads just spitting feathers at CMOMM in general and me in particular.

There is a history to this and when I'm better I will explain...it seems I have the Novovirus and have just crawled out of bed with a temperature of 103 to see if anything needs answering on the forum.

Just like your own researches @ pyrite we take what we do seriously here - and bad, unevidenced theories will therefore be handled robustly, while good hypotheses with evidence are constantly refined with friendly debate. I am sure you will find us friendly enough, but getting to the truth is our number one aim here. We do get nonsense on here sometimes and, frankly, it has to be dealt with.

Perhaps I should just add this. Thanks to brilliant work by so many on the forum, we are now able to say that something very serious must have happened to Madeleine on the Sunday evening or Monday morning - and therefore our chief focus over the last year or two has been to try and research exactly what did happen from Sunday to Thursday that week. Richard Hall's last Madeleine film explored this in much detail.

It is a vast and very compelling area of research.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by plebgate on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 19:00

@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:OK.. OK... maybe I'm thick.

But in what way has this research moved us forward?
Anyone?
...at all?
Isn't it a theory and as with most theories maybe it doesn't really move things on but gives posters a chance to discuss and to do further research which could lead to a key point being posted?  A point which might not have been raised before as pyrite pointed out up thread.

That's my take anyway and I have seen some theories which have been ridiculous but have been discussed over many, many pages.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by plebgate on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 19:12

by
@cloak'ndagger wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Speaking for myself only, the reason I place emphasis on Kate McCann's alleged dream and the involvement of Krugel, is because this whole episode of research is based on those two issues alone.

The research itself is inaccurate, speculative and wholly misleading.  This kind of distraction does nothing to assist the search for truth.  One single inaccuracy in such an extensive work of research weakens the whole context - unchallenged it leads to a false conception.
 
My reason for commenting on the posting issue I have already explained.

The end!
I think it is an amazing piece of work  by Ben Salmon. 

Are we a wee bit jealous then Verdi?

I see no good reason to attack the researcher.
I can't see why Verdi would be jealous of any research being done.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Tony Bennett on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 19:32

@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:OK.. OK... maybe I'm thick.

But in what way has this research moved us forward?
Anyone?
...at all?
I have to say I'm with BlueBag on this one, and Verdi, who said: "...you realise that the 'piece of work' is inaccurate, speculative and misleading.

No doubt @ April28th was doing his best and has certainly put a few dates and details into his article. 

Not only has his research on this occasion not moved us forward, I think it has actually moved us backwards.    

That's because IF a body was hidden a freezer, it's much more likely to have been in one of those two houses Robert Murat visited on the Wednesday or Thursday - you know, the ones he was 'too tired to remember about' when first questioned by the Portuguese Police on 14 May - but 'remembered' two months later when the police had analysed his mobile 'phone 'pings' and establisehd that he had comprehnsively lied about his movements when firt questioned.     

If I may just add one comment on this thread, I thought cloak'n'dagger's dig at Verdi claiming s/he was 'jealous' of April28th's research was supremely unwarranted. Those who've got to know Verdi on the forum over the past three years know that they've never see any jealousy from him/her (sorry, Verdi, still don't know) and we also know that s/he regularly contributes relevant links and (IMO) is not often wrong in his/her posts.

Your comment @ cloak'n'dagger reflects your own character and also the fact that you are rarely here and that when you do appear, you often come up with a negative comment like that.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by plebgate on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 19:46

@thingy wrote:How does the Amaral's fridge/bodily fluids theory fit in with story?

Was the fridge already in the derelict building, plugged in and waiting for Madeleine's corpse?

Or did Gerry take Madeleine's corpse already in a fridge to the derelict building on the back of a bike, as in my avatar?

Then he went back up the hill in the hire car 3 weeks later to collect Madeleine's corpse and that's when it started to thaw out?

Why not leave the corpse in the fridge and put the fridge in the hire car?
I remember reading a long time back about a body being left in a derelict building next to a church IIRC.

The thing about derelict buildings is that the power companies tend to switch the power off if the building has been left empty for quite some time so if there were a fridge still left in the derelict building I doubt it would have been able to be turned on.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 20:54

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:OK.. OK... maybe I'm thick.

But in what way has this research moved us forward?
Anyone?
...at all?
I have to say I'm with BlueBag on this one, and Verdi, who said: "...you realise that the 'piece of work' is inaccurate, speculative and misleading.

No doubt @ April28th was doing his best and has certainly put a few dates and details into his article. 

Not only has his research on this occasion not moved us forward, I think it has actually moved us backwards.    

That's because IF a body was hidden a freezer, it's much more likely to have been in one of those two houses Robert Murat visited on the Wednesday or Thursday - you know, the ones he was 'too tired to remember about' when first questioned by the Portuguese Police on 14 May - but 'remembered' two months later when the police had analysed his mobile 'phone 'pings' and establisehd that he had comprehnsively lied about his movements when firt questioned.     

If I may just add one comment on this thread, I thought cloak'n'dagger's dig at Verdi claiming s/he was 'jealous' of April28th's research was supremely unwarranted. Those who've got to know Verdi on the forum over the past three years know that they've never see any jealousy from him/her (sorry, Verdi, still don't know) and we also know that s/he regularly contributes relevant links and (IMO) is not often wrong in his/her posts.

Your comment @ cloak'n'dagger reflects your own character and also the fact that you are rarely here and that when you do appear, you often come up with a negative comment like that.
It pains me to wallow in praise and so really I shouldn't do it - but I will   smilie .   I  thank you for those few kind words - it's not often (if ever) I'm bestowed with praise on this forum - au-contraire - so on this occasion it touches the spot.

Sorry to hear of your malady, unfortunately it's that time of year when the bugs come out of hiding in full force.  Hoping you are back on form sooner rather than later.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 20:59

It seems to me that if a forum 'researcher' is well respected or not, some members think their every word should be honoured and thus allowed to pass without negative comment and/or criticism.  Not so for me, if I see what I consider to be an anomaly of any description I will speak out offend or please - isn't that the reason we are here, to uncover the truth without being bogged down by irrelevancies?  Otherwise what's the point?

Why do I get the feeling this is yet another phishing exercise initiated by external sources?

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sat 31 Dec 2016 - 23:20

@HiDeHo in reply to an earlier post..

"I was not being kind Verdi, I was being respectful."


It was kind of you to be respectful.

"My mistake I should have said ' but I would be interested to see why you consider it (research) inaccurate."

I have already answered that - more than once.

"I am not here to debate others' opinions about whether this should have been posted or not."

Nonetheless you are so doing.

"It appears to me that there are efforts to discredit the person as well as the effort and research"

The person repeatedly posts wild claims about this that and the other but disappears when asked to verify the claims, only to reappear at a later date with yet more wild claims.  As I've already commented, apart from this 'research' posted by proxy, an alleged reply to a freedom of information request was posted up by another member on behalf of this person -  by private arrangement judging by the wording.  Probably just me but I find this kind of behaviour duplicious, particularly when no explanation for the behaviour is forthcoming.

The blogger responsible for this blog/thread has been online since it was posted-up by Get'emGoncalo but has again failed to respond to comments or justify the content of his/her 'research'.

"A lot of effort has gone into this research and whether others prefer to minimise it and pass it off as not 'worthy' of note, is not something I choose to discuss."

Then don't discuss it but please respect the right of other members to agree or disagree as they see fit.  I acknowledge the effort that goes into the past writings of Textusa but it doesn't follow that I have to agree with it or let it pass without comment.

"Jill posted this as she felt it worthy of discussion and I am in agreement with her as is the likelihood that many others have an interest."

I look forward to reading future discussion on the subject that might justify the effort.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by BlueBag on Sun 1 Jan 2017 - 8:48

Now... I'm being thick again.

I would like to know what this research indicates and whether alternative explanations have been considered.

A concise summary and some deductive reasoning would be nice.

Anyone?
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Sun 1 Jan 2017 - 14:45

@Verdi wrote:@HiDeHo in reply to an earlier post..

"I was not being kind Verdi, I was being respectful."


It was kind of you to be respectful.

"My mistake I should have said ' but I would be interested to see why you consider it (research) inaccurate."

I have already answered that - more than once.

"I am not here to debate others' opinions about whether this should have been posted or not."

Nonetheless you are so doing.

"It appears to me that there are efforts to discredit the person as well as the effort and research"

The person repeatedly posts wild claims about this that and the other but disappears when asked to verify the claims, only to reappear at a later date with yet more wild claims.  As I've already commented, apart from this 'research' posted by proxy, an alleged reply to a freedom of information request was posted up by another member on behalf of this person -  by private arrangement judging by the wording.  Probably just me but I find this kind of behaviour duplicious, particularly when no explanation for the behaviour is forthcoming.

The blogger responsible for this blog/thread has been online since it was posted-up by Get'emGoncalo but has again failed to respond to comments or justify the content of his/her 'research'.

"A lot of effort has gone into this research and whether others prefer to minimise it and pass it off as not 'worthy' of note, is not something I choose to discuss."

Then don't discuss it but please respect the right of other members to agree or disagree as they see fit.  I acknowledge the effort that goes into the past writings of Textusa but it doesn't follow that I have to agree with it or let it pass without comment.

"Jill posted this as she felt it worthy of discussion and I am in agreement with her as is the likelihood that many others have an interest."

I look forward to reading future discussion on the subject that might justify the effort.

I have to confess, Verdi, that I didn't read it before I posted it. It had been posted on CMOMM Facebewk so thought I'd post it here too.

Neither Ben nor HiDeHo asked me to post it for them.
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sun 1 Jan 2017 - 15:04

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Neither Ben nor HiDeHo asked me to post it for them.
In fairness, I didn't think you were asked to post by proxy.  If that had been the case I know you would have said so in the beginning.

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Get'emGonçalo on Sun 1 Jan 2017 - 15:18

@Verdi wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:
Neither Ben nor HiDeHo asked me to post it for them.
In fairness, I didn't think you were asked to post by proxy.  If that had been the case I know you would have said so in the beginning.

I sent you a private message last night, you haven't picked it up yet.

Go forth...
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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by Verdi on Sun 1 Jan 2017 - 15:20

My first comment on this piece of research was concern about the provenance of all this information outside of old very unreliable newspaper reports.  For example, the research claims to know who spoke to who on the telephone and when - pings and triangulations are one thing but they do not identify who made the call nor who spoke during the call.  How therefore can the researcher claim to know?  Clarification of this point (and many other claims contained within the research) would be invaluable if the work is to be taken seriously.  Somewhere along the line the researcher even admits to creating his/her own triangulation ???

The 'piece of work' claims..

9th of June – Gerald McCann states in an evening phone call that the family are entering a week of grieving and will stop making appearances around Europe.

Again I ask how the researcher knows what was stated by Gerry McCann during an evening phone call?  In addition, on 9th June 2007 the McCanns European tour had already ended and it was  reported at the time by the BBC news on 10th June 2007 ..

'The parents of missing Madeleine McCann say they will spend the coming week reviewing the campaign to find her and allowing themselves time to grieve.'

The inference of this research appears to be building a storyline around flimsy uncorroborated bits of information in order to create a family mourning scenario of the cultic variety, just before the McCanns trip to Morocco but the dates provided (albeit vague) don't accord with the implied scenario. 

The following is another snip from the research, a glaring inaccuracy by way of example relative to events around 9th/10th June 2007 [my comments under each point]..

9th of June – Gerald McCann states in an evening phone call that the family are entering a week of grieving and will stop making appearances around Europe.

See above

First contact is made with Danie Krugel.

How can the researcher make such a claim - where is the evidence?

Most of the family is in Portugal

Most of the family?  The nuclear family or the extended family - where is the evidence?

Pings as far South West as Sagres for the first time, as well as Budens. Calls to Mike Keenan of Control Risks Group and Father Pacheco in this time

Where is the evidence and what is the relevance to the subject matter?

10th of June – Morocco trip.  Flying by private plane (Phillip Green) they arrive, Summer in North Africa, dressed in black.

This is photographic evidence of the McCanns arriving in Morocco..



This is photographic evidence of the McCanns on a press jaunt in Morocco and their visit to the Vatican..






Much the same attire, if not the same!  I venture to suggest it was their European tour formal outfits - not a mourning gesture.

17th of July – Danie Krugel arrives and begins his searches, finding a pink towel attop Rocha Negra

A pink towel at the top of Rocha Negra - where is the evidence?

That's just for starters but as I've already said, I've wasted enough time on this - duty calls!

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Re: The House on the Black Rock

Post by sharonl on Sun 1 Jan 2017 - 17:35

I am not sure how much credibility attaches to this Black Rock story but back in 2007, the Express reported that the PJ had  traced Gerry McCanns' and Russel O'Briens mobile phones to an old farmhouse\barn where a bloodstained towel was found.  The article was swifty removed from the internet that same day and little more was said about this.  Is this possibly the same building as the one being discussed here?

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