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Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by winslow boy on 20.03.17 13:43

d different locations.
Phoebe wrote:Cadaver odour was detected by the dogs on Kate's clothing and also on cuddle cat which she kept with her continuously. Who could have "planted" cadaver odour on these and how? Are you seriously suggesting some "powerful force" broke in to their villa and made off with Kate's T shirt, capri pants and cuddle-cat without her knowledge? Did they found a handy corpse at, say, the local morgue/funeral home and rub these items on them before sneaking them back in to her wardrobe?
It's possible, if they had the cadaver Why didn't the Mc^£%% burn/get rid of the articles with the body, these aren't average intelligent people nothing on Ge$&£ stuff, but as suggested by others Ge&£% was implicit. If on her clothes in the wardrobe why didn't it transfer to his. Always wondered about cuddle cat though is that possible ? On her clothes and always carrying cuddle cat, transference, how long after was it tested for cadaver smell. You would not know that your clothes carried the smell of death, but the dogs would. Is this possible. But why only K^£$^ clothes ? Please don't say it couldn't be transference, the body wasn't found but the dogs smelt where it had been, in various and different locations. If you can say why it's not possible we get closer to the truth.

Not disputing the Dogs at all, IMO they smelt/detected what they were trained to do. It's the timeline that those items came into contact with each other that needs to be determined.
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Nina on 20.03.17 14:44

winslow boy wrote:
BlueBag wrote:Meanwhile Fernando and Enawgaw didn't notice any smells.

So you are saying the PJ bungled it and the car hire company were in on it.
 Hi,No I'm saying that they seemed to be hit by a brick wall every where they tried to investigate. And as I  said it would IMO be more feasible that the cadaver was transported in the car a much lesser distance (ie less than 5 miles earlier in the week before the mass invasion) so that the smell was negligable and in decomposition terms quite fresh but more than 3 hours old, that only dogs could pick it up. Not taken on a long hot drive later on where the smell would be overwhelming, and leaving the boot open would not get rid of the smell to humans. Did I read that the DNA was diluted, refrigerated OR washed and dried (Bathed).But there again it's also possible that Mc*$^% knew nothing about the vehicle and as someone said no evidence that they selected that vehicle, no evidence that they were driving round the countryside with a body in the boot as well, no evidence as to when and how that evidence got inside that car.

Thank you for your reply and as I say I am neither for or against the McCanns just looking for the truth like everyone else.

The Supreme Court said as I read it that the case was about Freedom of Speech not to decide the innocent or guilty, still under suspicion as you would expect in a disapperance, and so therefore deemed and are innocent as no conclusive proof one way or the other. All people are mostly under suspicion when there is a death or abduction it doesn't mean they are guilty.Lee Harvey Oswald, the Jill Dando episode imprisonment of an innocent man,the Christie case where an innocent man was hung,at the time all the information pointed at them, I could go on and on, as you probably think I do.
We are seeking the truth and when theories are put forward and there are comments where it's possible or not possible that is the way forward. When we have discussed, logically and not just sticking to our opinions what could or couldn't have happened that is where the truth in the lie will be found.It's not about for or against it's finding the truth.

I do not accuse anybody of any wrong doings only put forward an hypothesis IMO to be proven right or wrong.
As I said I don't mind anybody shooting me down in flames as long as it's constructive with reasons why. If it's unfounded, why is it unfounded ?
Thank you for all the valid replies, and sorry about another long winded narrative.It is not my intention to detract.
The Abduction theory has been heavily scrutinised, but is still possible not impossible. The dog evidence, no evidence when it got there,when did it get there,how did it get there, during the Holiday,or after, or much later. If it was put there later and it is possible not impossible why, by whom. Why take only one child,would this be a show of power that they could take the other two at will, and therefore control them. Oops conspiracy theory. Tell me why it's not possible.
Ready to be shot down in flames with logic not opinion.
Snipped from your post Winslow  boy.......

But there again it's also possible that Mc*$^% knew nothing about the vehicle and as someone said no evidence that they selected that vehicle,


I have hired many cars during the last few years and can tell you that you don't 'choose' a particular vehicle you choose a group, say 3 door or 5 door, low cc or powered cars, cheap and cheerful or top of the range. I would say it is quite understandable the type of car they chose having 2 children and lots of visitors to transport too and from the airport.

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Verdi on 20.03.17 15:12

BlueBag wrote:So that blows the obfuscation theory.
You would think so wouldn't you - but apparently not!

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Phoebe on 20.03.17 16:07

If, as you seem to suggest, cuddle-cat was transferring cadaver odour onto Kate's clothes then, logically, all clothes she wore would have been contaminated as would all fabric furniture she sat on. Martin Grime explains clearly that neither blood nor cadaver odour is destroyed by washing. I doubt the McCanns,(for all their "intelligence") were aware of this. If odours were as easily transferrable from clothing to clothing I'd save a fortune. My favourite ,(rather costly) perfume lingers on the article it was sprayed on but alas, has yet to penetrate other items nestling next to it in my wardrobe, despite my very liberal applications.
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Rob Royston on 20.03.17 16:25

I have also considered that the dogs could have been misled. It has been mentioned on this forum in the past,

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10343p200-creche-signatures-revisited

April 10th 2015

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by winslow boy on 20.03.17 16:52

As several members of CMOMM have noted, 'winslow' boy displayed clear evidence of coming here to disrupt and distract. It is despicable for anyone to come here and try to undo the good and hard work of so many who strive to unravel this dreadful mystery.

winslow boy's post has been removed.

And so has s/he - Mod
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by nglfi on 20.03.17 17:12

I hesitate to get involved in this thread, but for me the massive problem with 'I attended 6 dead bodies before I came away on holiday and that's how the cadaver odour got there' is the idea that Kate McCann would want to go on holiday in cadavery work clothes. Who goes on holiday in their work clothes?
Even though she wouldn't wear a uniform as a GP I've no doubt she and most have a specific set of clothes they wear to work.

And in what context does a GP come into contact with cadavers?

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Phoebe on 20.03.17 17:18

The notion of Kate going to work as a G.P. in capri pants and a string topped vest in the U.K. in March is as bizarre as the notion of her bringing cuddle-cat with her. How do we know what clothes Gerry brought to Portugal or whether he disposed of any? With regard to being able to smell whether someone has a dog as soon as I enter a house, sorry but until Fido puts in an appearance I am regularly surprised by his being there! A recently deceased body, in my experience, does not produce a strong odour. I've been to enough wakes to say that (no embalming). Yes a dog would pick that scent up but my nose would be no more successful in this instance than it would in detecting that the passenger beside me is carrying drugs or explosives.
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by sandancer on 20.03.17 17:39

https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices 

English law 
Does not require​ a doctor to confirm​ a death has occurred​ 
Does not require​ a doctor to​ view​ the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended​ the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate​ .

No obligation on the doctor even to see , let​ alone examine the body .

So Kate as a part​ time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat​ over even one body !

If a doctor​ does​ check for signs of life​ , it's​ pulse​ and​ eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer​ to fill​ out​ the forms !

You​ can read more at the​ BMA link .

So let's​ forget the attending​ bodies in a t shirt​ , Capri​ pants with Cuddlecat​ in tow please​ .

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Harmon521 on 20.03.17 18:08


Today at 16:25
by Rob Royston
I have also considered that the dogs could have been misled. It has been mentioned on this forum in the past,

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10343p200-creche-signatures-revisited

Sorry I have looked through your link and can't find post regarding dogs,but I don't understand what you mean.
These are two highly trained dogs used by police forces world wide.they are trained to find a particular scent which they did.it matters not to them who the scent belongs to or how it got there.
All they know is ,"what they were looking for,they found"
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by MrsC on 20.03.17 19:15

sandancer wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices 

English law 
Does not require​ a doctor to confirm​ a death has occurred​ 
Does not require​ a doctor to​ view​ the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended​ the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate​ .

No obligation on the doctor even to see , let​ alone examine the body .

So Kate as a part​ time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat​ over even one body !

If a doctor​ does​ check for signs of life​ , it's​ pulse​ and​ eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer​ to fill​ out​ the forms !

You​ can read more at the​ BMA link .

So let's​ forget the attending​ bodies in a t shirt​ , Capri​ pants with Cuddlecat​ in tow please​ .

Could it be anything to do with this:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/10/doctors-cremation-ash-cash

Could Mrs Mc have been earning a bit on the side? Article does not state whether the Doctor has to examine the body before signing the papers.

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by tinkier on 20.03.17 19:35

sandancer wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices 

English law 
Does not require​ a doctor to confirm​ a death has occurred​ 
Does not require​ a doctor to​ view​ the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended​ the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate​ .

No obligation on the doctor even to see , let​ alone examine the body .

So Kate as a part​ time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat​ over even one body !

If a doctor​ does​ check for signs of life​ , it's​ pulse​ and​ eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer​ to fill​ out​ the forms !

You​ can read more at the​ BMA link .

So let's​ forget the attending​ bodies in a t shirt​ , Capri​ pants with Cuddlecat​ in tow please​ .

Legal requirements

The law requires a doctor to notify the cause of death of any patient whom he or she has attended during that patient’s last illness to the Registrar of Births and Deaths. The doctor is required to notify the cause of death as a certificate, on a form prescribed, stating to the best of his or her knowledge and belief, the cause of death. 
It should be noted that the strict interpretation of the law is that the doctor shall notify the cause of death, not the fact.
Thus, a doctor does not certify that death has occurred, only what in his or her opinion was the cause, assuming that death has taken place. 

Arising out of this interpretation there is no obligation on the doctor even to see, let alone examine the body before issuing the certificate. The Broderick report recommended that a doctor should be required to inspect the body of a deceased person before issuing the certificate but this recommendation has never been implemented. Thus, there is no requirement in English law for a general practitioner or any other registered medical practitioner to see or examine the body of a person who is said to be dead.

General practitioners as a body would not, and as individuals should not, seek to use this quirk of English law to avoid attending upon an apparently deceased patient for whom the GP is responsible. 
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Nina on 20.03.17 19:49

tinkier wrote:
sandancer wrote:https://www.bma.org.uk>gp-practices 

English law 
Does not require​ a doctor to confirm​ a death has occurred​ 
Does not require​ a doctor to​ view​ the body of the deceased
Does require the doctor who attended​ the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate​ .

No obligation on the doctor even to see , let​ alone examine the body .

So Kate as a part​ time locum GP working 1/12 days had no reason to drape herself whilst carrying Cuddlecat​ over even one body !

If a doctor​ does​ check for signs of life​ , it's​ pulse​ and​ eyes. ( Seen it done myself ) takes longer​ to fill​ out​ the forms !

You​ can read more at the​ BMA link .

So let's​ forget the attending​ bodies in a t shirt​ , Capri​ pants with Cuddlecat​ in tow please​ .

Legal requirements



The law requires a doctor to notify the cause of death of any patient whom he or she has attended during that patient’s last illness to the Registrar of Births and Deaths. The doctor is required to notify the cause of death as a certificate, on a form prescribed, stating to the best of his or her knowledge and belief, the cause of death. 
It should be noted that the strict interpretation of the law is that the doctor shall notify the cause of death, not the fact.
Thus, a doctor does not certify that death has occurred, only what in his or her opinion was the cause, assuming that death has taken place. 

Arising out of this interpretation there is no obligation on the doctor even to see, let alone examine the body before issuing the certificate. The Broderick report recommended that a doctor should be required to inspect the body of a deceased person before issuing the certificate but this recommendation has never been implemented. Thus, there is no requirement in English law for a general practitioner or any other registered medical practitioner to see or examine the body of a person who is said to be dead.



General practitioners as a body would not, and as individuals should not, seek to use this quirk of English law to avoid attending upon an apparently deceased patient for whom the GP is responsible. 
Actually if a family member died at home, whether suddenly or as the result of a long illness or even an accident or suicide, the last person I would send for would be their GP.

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Verdi on 20.03.17 20:49

nglfi wrote:I hesitate to get involved in this thread, but for me the massive problem with 'I attended 6 dead bodies before I came away on holiday and that's how the cadaver odour got there'
I don't think you will find Kate McCann ever made such a claim, it was the proverbial source that took the credit.  Here's an example..

The "smell of death" was not only allegedly detected on Mrs McCann's clothes but in the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz and the Renault Scenic car hired 25 days after Madeleine disappeared, Portuguese sources claimed. A source close to the McCanns' solicitors said the smell on Mrs McCann could be explained by being in contact with corpses while working as a GP.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html

Outside of positive evidence of the spoken word which can only be found by referencing video footage of the McCanns media and studio sofa appearances, I doubt if you will find one single claim made over the past ten years, which has actually come from the McCann mouth.  They are not clever in my opinion but they are down right cunning - which is worse.

ETA:  Oh and look at the Telegraph article highlight..

'Branson gives 100,000k to McCann legal fund.'

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by JohnyT on 20.03.17 21:06

nglfi wrote:I hesitate to get involved in this thread, but for me the massive problem with 'I attended 6 dead bodies before I came away on holiday and that's how the cadaver odour got there' is the idea that Kate McCann would want to go on holiday in cadavery work clothes. Who goes on holiday in their work clothes?
Even though she wouldn't wear a uniform as a GP I've no doubt she and most have a specific set of clothes they wear to work.

And in what context does a GP come into contact with cadavers?
...so surely the next question to her would be...." have you names of these deceased and when did they occur......" ??
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by JohnyT on 20.03.17 21:09

Ah I see.....posted before I saw your post Verdi
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by tinkier on 20.03.17 21:33

@Nina so who would you call? In an expected death at home the undertaker can and will remove the deceased, however many do prefer the GP to attend and certify before removal. I have known an undertaker to refuse to remove until a GP has certified. If it's a cremation, 2 doctors have to sign the certificate. That's what I know that happens in my area from experience of working in the community, and i've also experienced an expected death at home. A nurse, an RGN can verify a death, but it's the nurse's responsibility to notify the GP who is the only person who can certify. If the death happens in hospital it's obviously slightly different. An unexpected death or suicide in the community is different again.
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Nina on 20.03.17 21:58

tinkier wrote:@Nina so who would you call? In an expected death at home the undertaker can and will remove the deceased, however many do prefer the GP to attend and certify before removal. I have know an undertaker to refuse to remove until a GP has certified. If it's a cremation, 2 doctors have to sign the certificate. That's what I know that happens in my area from experience of working in the community, and i've also experienced an expected death at home. A nurse, an RGN can verify a death, but it's the nurse's responsibility to notify the GP who is the only person who can certify. If the death happens in hospital it's obviously slightly different. An unexpected death or suicide in the community is different again.
Yes I know all that I said it would be the last person I would send for. In the case of an accident or suicide my first call would be 999 and tell them the facts as I saw them.
If the person had been ill for some time then would have been under the GP anyway so here would call the undertaker as already planned and then they would make the arrangements.
A death at home is going to be either expected or an accident or suicide or a criminal act. Non of these would have me telephoning the surgery.

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by tinkier on 20.03.17 22:35

Nina wrote:
tinkier wrote:@Nina so who would you call? In an expected death at home the undertaker can and will remove the deceased, however many do prefer the GP to attend and certify before removal. I have know an undertaker to refuse to remove until a GP has certified. If it's a cremation, 2 doctors have to sign the certificate. That's what I know that happens in my area from experience of working in the community, and i've also experienced an expected death at home. A nurse, an RGN can verify a death, but it's the nurse's responsibility to notify the GP who is the only person who can certify. If the death happens in hospital it's obviously slightly different. An unexpected death or suicide in the community is different again.
Yes I know all that I said it would be the last person I would send for. In the case of an accident or suicide my first call would be 999 and tell them the facts as I saw them.
If the person had been ill for some time then would have been under the GP anyway so here would call the undertaker as already planned and then they would make the arrangements.
A death at home is going to be either expected or an accident or suicide or a criminal act. Non of these would have me telephoning the surgery.
As I said, that's the protocol for my area for an expected death at home. Many GP's prefer to attend their patients in the home environment rather than having to attend the undertakers premises. I fully accept other areas will do things slightly different. Anyway, this may be going way off topic now..apologies.
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by MRNOODLES on 20.03.17 23:48

Dogs/DNA/Blood and the like, are always the subjects somebody pops up with a scatter-gun and attempts to cause loads of confusion and disruption.
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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Verdi on 21.03.17 0:00

         

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by nglfi on 21.03.17 7:59

Sorry I should have been clearer in my comment. I understand Kate didn't day exactly those words, as you say Verdi very little is directly attributable to them. However I tend to think that anything that comes out in the media is endorsed and approved by them, as it's the image they wish to put out. It would be interesting to see what her actual response to police was when she was questioned about the cadaver odour. If she did offer any defence about certifying dead bodies, I still find it quite unlikely that as a part time GP she attended more than one in the period directly before coming to Portugal, and that she would wear the same clothes she was wearing at work.
And if she did mention anything about this to the PJ, whether they were allowed to verify this or was it another stumbling block that the British refused to confirm or deny.

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by plebgate on 21.03.17 8:47

Mr and Mrs are paying their spokesperson, lawyers etc.
He who pays the piper and all that.
I know if I was paying people to speak on my behalf then I would correct anything I didn't agree with.
Even if they don't read the paper or watch tv surely they would have people contact them and tell them what is being said - as they do apparently with online information?

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by JRP on 21.03.17 9:06

However, in this post yesterday, their Facebook admin said that she makes statements on their behalf without gaining approval, because they trust her.



Sorry if this is  offtopic

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Re: Blood in the boot of the McCanns' hire car

Post by Mirage on 21.03.17 9:08

plebgate wrote:Mr and Mrs are paying their spokesperson, lawyers etc.
He who pays the piper and all that.
I know if I was paying people to speak on my behalf then I would correct anything I didn't agree with.
Even if they don't read the paper or watch tv surely they would have people contact them and tell them what is being said - as they do apparently with online information?
Just like Tony Blair letting Alistair Campbell brief the press on the 45 minute weapons of mass destruction baloney and not bothering to correct it.

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