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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

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Post by sallypelt 30.09.16 20:06

I am watching a Youtube video about the disappearance of Ben, and 17 minutes into the video, there's an interesting claim by "a man with a digger" saying that the gypsies had taken Ben. Could this "man with the digger" be Dino?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xqT0mlXdo
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Post by MayMuse 30.09.16 20:14

sallypelt wrote:I am watching a Youtube video about the disappearance of Ben, and 17 minutes into the video, there's an interesting claim by "a man with a digger" saying that the gypsies had taken Ben. Could this "man with the digger" be Dino?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xqT0mlXdo
Yes I believe so as the grandfather has spoken of speaking to the "digger man" before and the only one we know of is "Dino"
The white car they mention in the lane was eventually traced, it was the translator apparently? It has been years since I watched this documentary and remember when it first came out may years ago, so thank you, will watch it again.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by MayMuse 30.09.16 20:24

sallypelt wrote:The more I read about this latest dig, the more questions are popping into my mind. Let's go back to 1991 and examine the initial claims about what happened.

1) Kerry Needam's Grandparents were looking after Ben whilst his mum, Kerry, was out working.
2) Around 2:20 PM Ben had "gone quite", so the grandparent/s went outside to see where he was
3) When they couldn't find Ben, they ASSUMED that Stephen had take Ben on his (Stephen's) scooter,  and it wasn't until THREE HOURS later that the police were informed.

Now, I have a problem with some of the above. Take the ASSUMING that Ben had gone with his uncle..........nah!  Putting myself in Ben's grandparents place,  as soon as I discovered that the child was nowhere to be seen, I would have been frantic, and each minute would have felt like eternity. There would be no waiting for Stephen to return. I would have been out there immediately, searching every place that he could possibly be.

Coming back to the present day, another question is, if Dino was digging well away from the farmhouse that Ben's grandparents were in, why are they digging so close to that farmhouse, today? Did Dino take his digger there that day, and if so, Why?  At whose request? Moreover, if Ben was "crushed" close to the farmhouse, the grandparents would KNOW about it.

So, what happened in that 3 hour window, from the time Ben was discovered missing and the police being informed?  Something isn't adding up, but I am aware that we aren't in possession of the full story, and the above is only me thinking out loud.
Rare Youtube doc on the case, interviews with the family, showing footage of the farmhouse and snips of the hypnotist with Stephen.
https://youtu.be/fXfKaOfwsro

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“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by sallypelt 30.09.16 20:41

MayMuse wrote:
sallypelt wrote:The more I read about this latest dig, the more questions are popping into my mind. Let's go back to 1991 and examine the initial claims about what happened.

1) Kerry Needam's Grandparents were looking after Ben whilst his mum, Kerry, was out working.
2) Around 2:20 PM Ben had "gone quite", so the grandparent/s went outside to see where he was
3) When they couldn't find Ben, they ASSUMED that Stephen had take Ben on his (Stephen's) scooter,  and it wasn't until THREE HOURS later that the police were informed.

Now, I have a problem with some of the above. Take the ASSUMING that Ben had gone with his uncle..........nah!  Putting myself in Ben's grandparents place,  as soon as I discovered that the child was nowhere to be seen, I would have been frantic, and each minute would have felt like eternity. There would be no waiting for Stephen to return. I would have been out there immediately, searching every place that he could possibly be.

Coming back to the present day, another question is, if Dino was digging well away from the farmhouse that Ben's grandparents were in, why are they digging so close to that farmhouse, today? Did Dino take his digger there that day, and if so, Why?  At whose request? Moreover, if Ben was "crushed" close to the farmhouse, the grandparents would KNOW about it.

So, what happened in that 3 hour window, from the time Ben was discovered missing and the police being informed?  Something isn't adding up, but I am aware that we aren't in possession of the full story, and the above is only me thinking out loud.
Rare Youtube doc on the case, interviews with the family, showing footage of the farmhouse and snips of the hypnotist with Stephen.
https://youtu.be/fXfKaOfwsro

Thank you, MayMuse. Again, things don't add up. In the documentary, it states that  it was 5 to 6 hours after Ben had gone missing, that they called the police,  yet the grandfather states that Stephen would not have take Ben without letting Ben's grandparents know. So, the question is, if they KNEW that Stephen hadn't taken Ben, why did they wait more than FIVE hours before contacting the police, and letting Ben's mum know that Ben had gone missing?
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Post by MayMuse 30.09.16 20:54

sallypelt wrote:
MayMuse wrote:
sallypelt wrote:The more I read about this latest dig, the more questions are popping into my mind. Let's go back to 1991 and examine the initial claims about what happened.

1) Kerry Needam's Grandparents were looking after Ben whilst his mum, Kerry, was out working.
2) Around 2:20 PM Ben had "gone quite", so the grandparent/s went outside to see where he was
3) When they couldn't find Ben, they ASSUMED that Stephen had take Ben on his (Stephen's) scooter,  and it wasn't until THREE HOURS later that the police were informed.

Now, I have a problem with some of the above. Take the ASSUMING that Ben had gone with his uncle..........nah!  Putting myself in Ben's grandparents place,  as soon as I discovered that the child was nowhere to be seen, I would have been frantic, and each minute would have felt like eternity. There would be no waiting for Stephen to return. I would have been out there immediately, searching every place that he could possibly be.

Coming back to the present day, another question is, if Dino was digging well away from the farmhouse that Ben's grandparents were in, why are they digging so close to that farmhouse, today? Did Dino take his digger there that day, and if so, Why?  At whose request? Moreover, if Ben was "crushed" close to the farmhouse, the grandparents would KNOW about it.

So, what happened in that 3 hour window, from the time Ben was discovered missing and the police being informed?  Something isn't adding up, but I am aware that we aren't in possession of the full story, and the above is only me thinking out loud.
Rare Youtube doc on the case, interviews with the family, showing footage of the farmhouse and snips of the hypnotist with Stephen.
https://youtu.be/fXfKaOfwsro

Thank you, MayMuse. Again, things don't add up. In the documentary, it states that  it was 5 to 6 hours after Ben had gone missing, that they called the police,  yet the grandfather states that Stephen would not have take Ben without letting Ben's grandparents know. So, the question is, if they KNEW that Stephen hadn't taken Ben, why did they wait more than FIVE hours before contacting the police, and letting Ben's mum know that Ben had gone missing?
It does seem a very long time to report or even to let Kerry know.
The main thing that stuck in my mind was Ben's shorts and little dinky toys which were never found. If the shorts were hanging on a tree by the farmhouse and Ben was not wearing them, who took them off the tree once he had disappeared?

The Lost Boy Documentary is good footage & information on the case. 
https://youtu.be/j-JIpz1WzUo

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by Nina 30.09.16 21:15

MayMuse wrote:
sallypelt wrote:
MayMuse wrote:
sallypelt wrote:The more I read about this latest dig, the more questions are popping into my mind. Let's go back to 1991 and examine the initial claims about what happened.

1) Kerry Needam's Grandparents were looking after Ben whilst his mum, Kerry, was out working.
2) Around 2:20 PM Ben had "gone quite", so the grandparent/s went outside to see where he was
3) When they couldn't find Ben, they ASSUMED that Stephen had take Ben on his (Stephen's) scooter,  and it wasn't until THREE HOURS later that the police were informed.

Now, I have a problem with some of the above. Take the ASSUMING that Ben had gone with his uncle..........nah!  Putting myself in Ben's grandparents place,  as soon as I discovered that the child was nowhere to be seen, I would have been frantic, and each minute would have felt like eternity. There would be no waiting for Stephen to return. I would have been out there immediately, searching every place that he could possibly be.

Coming back to the present day, another question is, if Dino was digging well away from the farmhouse that Ben's grandparents were in, why are they digging so close to that farmhouse, today? Did Dino take his digger there that day, and if so, Why?  At whose request? Moreover, if Ben was "crushed" close to the farmhouse, the grandparents would KNOW about it.

So, what happened in that 3 hour window, from the time Ben was discovered missing and the police being informed?  Something isn't adding up, but I am aware that we aren't in possession of the full story, and the above is only me thinking out loud.
Rare Youtube doc on the case, interviews with the family, showing footage of the farmhouse and snips of the hypnotist with Stephen.
https://youtu.be/fXfKaOfwsro

Thank you, MayMuse. Again, things don't add up. In the documentary, it states that  it was 5 to 6 hours after Ben had gone missing, that they called the police,  yet the grandfather states that Stephen would not have take Ben without letting Ben's grandparents know. So, the question is, if they KNEW that Stephen hadn't taken Ben, why did they wait more than FIVE hours before contacting the police, and letting Ben's mum know that Ben had gone missing?
It does seem a very long time to report or even to let Kerry know.
The main thing that stuck in my mind was Ben's shorts and little dinky toys which were never found. If the shorts were hanging on a tree by the farmhouse and Ben was not wearing them, who took them off the tree once he had disappeared?

The Lost Boy Documentary is good footage & information on the case. 
https://youtu.be/j-JIpz1WzUo
I have wondered if they had both fallen to sleep after their lunch, hence the delay.

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Post by Doug D 30.09.16 21:49

Going back to the ‘hole’ upthread:
 
Police have broken the concrete top of the septic tank:
 ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-case
 http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939602.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg

 
Corner of  Needham ‘farmouse’ can be seen on the right.
 
***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-casehttp://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939604.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
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Post by MayMuse 30.09.16 22:39

From 0.48 interview segment with the grandfather with view of the farmhouse/land in 1991; shows the condition of area Ben went missing from and the tree.
https://youtu.be/IskZg5bY6RQ

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by Nina 30.09.16 23:35

Doug D wrote:Going back to the ‘hole’ upthread:
 
Police have broken the concrete top of the septic tank:
 ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-case
 http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939602.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
   
 
Corner of  Needham ‘farmouse’ can be seen on the right.
 
***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-casehttp://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939604.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
Thank you Doug D.I was certain that it was a septic tank. To me though it doesn't look like an active one.

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Post by sallypelt 01.10.16 12:26

Ben Needham search team target Kos digger site

Police searching for missing toddler Ben Needham are excavating the area near to where it has been claimed he was crushed to death by a digger.
Ben, from Sheffield, was 21 months old when he disappeared on the Greek island of Kos on 24 July 1991.....

...BBC reporter Danny Savage, who is in Kos, said: "They are clearing an area where the digger driver who is believed to have accidentally run Ben over on the day that he disappeared was working at the time.

.."There is an air of optimism. They are here on pretty solid information that they believe Ben was killed in an accident on that day in July 1991. They believe that they can find the remains of Ben."...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-37528959


Could this be the day that the mystery of Ben's disappearance will be solved?
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Post by MayMuse 01.10.16 12:35

sallypelt wrote:Ben Needham search team target Kos digger site

Police searching for missing toddler Ben Needham are excavating the area near to where it has been claimed he was crushed to death by a digger.
Ben, from Sheffield, was 21 months old when he disappeared on the Greek island of Kos on 24 July 1991.....

...BBC reporter Danny Savage, who is in Kos, said: "They are clearing an area where the digger driver who is believed to have accidentally run Ben over on the day that he disappeared was working at the time.

.."There is an air of optimism. They are here on pretty solid information that they believe Ben was killed in an accident on that day in July 1991. They believe that they can find the remains of Ben."...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-37528959


Could this be the day that the mystery of Ben's disappearance will be solved?
If they believed and are acting on that information, it would make more logical sense to focus on that area in the first place? 
Instead it has been the farmhouse cess pit?

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by sallypelt 01.10.16 12:43

MayMuse wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Ben Needham search team target Kos digger site

Police searching for missing toddler Ben Needham are excavating the area near to where it has been claimed he was crushed to death by a digger.
Ben, from Sheffield, was 21 months old when he disappeared on the Greek island of Kos on 24 July 1991.....

...BBC reporter Danny Savage, who is in Kos, said: "They are clearing an area where the digger driver who is believed to have accidentally run Ben over on the day that he disappeared was working at the time.

.."There is an air of optimism. They are here on pretty solid information that they believe Ben was killed in an accident on that day in July 1991. They believe that they can find the remains of Ben."...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-37528959


Could this be the day that the mystery of Ben's disappearance will be solved?
If they believed and are acting on that information, it would make more logical sense to focus on that area in the first place? 
Instead it has been the farmhouse cess pit?
I am somewhat confused about what Dino's role is in this. We are told that Dino was digging someway from the farmhouse, but in other newspaper articles it states that Eddie had asked Dino to "dig a road"? near the farmhouse. If this IS the case, and Dino WAS digging very close to the farmhouse (near the newly planted olive tree, which is right by the farmhouse) why has this been kept so low profile for 25 years? I will say again. something isn't quite right, here.



Editing to add: Has anyone seen any early footage where it is mentioned that Dino was digging close to the farmhouse?  A Youtube video, for example?
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Post by MayMuse 01.10.16 12:53

sallypelt wrote:
MayMuse wrote:
sallypelt wrote:Ben Needham search team target Kos digger site

Police searching for missing toddler Ben Needham are excavating the area near to where it has been claimed he was crushed to death by a digger.
Ben, from Sheffield, was 21 months old when he disappeared on the Greek island of Kos on 24 July 1991.....

...BBC reporter Danny Savage, who is in Kos, said: "They are clearing an area where the digger driver who is believed to have accidentally run Ben over on the day that he disappeared was working at the time.

.."There is an air of optimism. They are here on pretty solid information that they believe Ben was killed in an accident on that day in July 1991. They believe that they can find the remains of Ben."...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-37528959


Could this be the day that the mystery of Ben's disappearance will be solved?
If they believed and are acting on that information, it would make more logical sense to focus on that area in the first place? 
Instead it has been the farmhouse cess pit?
I am somewhat confused about what Dino's role is in this. We are told that Dino was digging someway from the farmhouse, but in other newspaper articles it states that Eddie had asked Dino to "dig a road"? near the farmhouse. If this IS the case, and Dino WAS digging very close to the farmhouse (near the newly planted olive tree, which is right by the farmhouse) why has this been kept so low profile for 25 years? I will say again. something isn't quite right, here.



Editing to add: Has anyone seen any early footage where it is mentioned that Dino was digging close to the farmhouse?  A Youtube video, for example?
In 2012 the building site was ruled out, nothing found. Was that the building site where "Dino" was working? 
Haven't come across any footage about him digging near to the farmhouse only this

https://youtu.be/IskZg5bY6RQ

@0.48 Eddie Needham outside the farmhouse in 1991 showing the last place he saw Ben playing by a barrel. Clearly shown is the disarray of the land, a tree and the side of the farmhouse. 
Worth watching it all as at the end shows the farmhouse at a later date.

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by Liz Eagles 01.10.16 13:50

Nina wrote:
Doug D wrote:Going back to the ‘hole’ upthread:
 
Police have broken the concrete top of the septic tank:
 ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-case
 http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939602.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
   
 
Corner of  Needham ‘farmouse’ can be seen on the right.
 
***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-casehttp://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939604.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
Thank you Doug D.I was certain that it was a septic tank. To me though it doesn't look like an active one.
It didn't look like a septic tank to me either. There's a difference between a septic tank and a soak-away system. A soak-away system doesn't need to be emptied.

Perhaps that's why the Body Farm specialist has been brought in. These people know about the decomposition of 'matter' within drainage systems - and are experts in this field.
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Post by sallypelt 01.10.16 14:05

Latest video on Ben:

https://www.facebook.com/helpfindben/posts/1366491470045924
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Post by kaz 01.10.16 14:53

Tony Bennett wrote:
@ sallypelt        I think your questions are very much along the right lines.

And here's another two. Would Stephen have roared off his bike without either (e) telling his Mum and Dad where he was going, and roughly when he would be back and (b) making sure Ben was with his Mum and Dad before he left?
poi gand
In Kerry Needham's book, 'BEN' ,she writes that Stephen went on his bike to fetch fuel at his father's instigation for the following day's work on the renovation project . When Ben's grandmother later  went to the caravan expecting to find Stephen with Ben she spotted the  full can of fuel outside ( if my memory serves me well ) but no Ben or Stephen.
According to Melanie McFadyean (2009 )  , a journalist for the Guardian who later became friendly with the Needham's,  Stephen left the renovation site to go for '' A swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat.''
In 'BEN' Kerry writes that the excavation work being carried out further down the lane had ' stopped for the day.' ( the weather was extremely  hot.............over 100 I believe ) and it was after this that they all lunched with the farmhouse owner with Ben playing around them. Again according to Kerry,  Christine's visit to the farmhouse with Ben was a last minute decision so there was no way anyone would expect them to be there .
A delivery of materials was expected that day but failed to arrive.
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Post by MayMuse 01.10.16 14:59

kaz wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
@ sallypelt        I think your questions are very much along the right lines.

And here's another two. Would Stephen have roared off his bike without either (e) telling his Mum and Dad where he was going, and roughly when he would be back and (b) making sure Ben was with his Mum and Dad before he left?
poi gand
In Kerry Needham's book, 'BEN' ,she writes that Stephen went on his bike to fetch fuel at his father's instigation for the following day's work on the renovation project . When Ben's grandmother later  went to the caravan expecting to find Stephen with Ben she spotted the  full can of fuel outside ( if my memory serves me well ) but no Ben or Stephen.
According to Melanie McFadyean (2009 )  , a journalist for the Guardian who later became friendly with the Needham's,  Stephen left the renovation site to go for '' A swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat.''
In 'BEN' Kerry writes that the excavation work being carried out further down the lane had ' stopped for the day.' ( the weather was extremely  hot.............over 100 I believe ) and it was after this that they all lunched with the farmhouse owner with Ben playing around them. Again according to Kerry,  Christine's visit to the farmhouse with Ben was a last minute decision so there was no way anyone would expect them to be there .
A delivery of materials was expected that day but failed to arrive.
In the docu showing clips of the hypnotist session  it was said that Stephen went for chips and beer?

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Post by Nina 01.10.16 15:00

aquila wrote:
Nina wrote:
Doug D wrote:Going back to the ‘hole’ upthread:
 
Police have broken the concrete top of the septic tank:
 ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-case
 http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939602.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
   
 
Corner of  Needham ‘farmouse’ can be seen on the right.
 
***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-casehttp://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939604.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
Thank you Doug D.I was certain that it was a septic tank. To me though it doesn't look like an active one.
It didn't look like a septic tank to me either. There's a difference between a septic tank and a soak-away system. A soak-away system doesn't need to be emptied.

Perhaps that's why the Body Farm specialist has been brought in. These people know about the decomposition of 'matter' within drainage systems - and are experts in this field.
Of course you are correct Aquila. Ours was a soak away and didn't have to be emptied though there was always some residue deep down still to soak. Just looking at the clean blocks and the bottom made me think it was not an active one.

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Post by MayMuse 01.10.16 15:02

It was said that Barkas was working at the farmhouse that day. Reports have also stated that the Cess pit was believed not to have existed 25 years ago! 

https://youtu.be/WE8fuBwW5ds

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Post by Doug D 01.10.16 15:03

Latest ITV update showing the replica sandals has got two videos attached rather than just the one above.
 
Quite how these sandals are going to make a difference to anything is beyond me, in spite of DI Cousins attempted explanation.
 
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2016-10-01/police-show-replica-of-ben-needhams-sandals-worn-on-day-he-went-missing/
 
Watched the hour long youtube video from MayMuse again, which is full of stuff which just doesn’t ring true to me.
  
Got to agree with sallypelt:
 
‘So, what happened in that 3 hour window, from the time Ben was discovered missing and the police being informed?  Something isn't adding up, but I am aware that we aren't in possession of the full story, and the above is only me thinking out loud.’
 
And they didn’t tell Kerry till 10 o’clock that night!
 
I would be interested to hear what Hobs has to say about all of Stephen’s ‘hypnotic’ statements.
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Post by bobbin 01.10.16 15:07

kaz wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
@ sallypelt        I think your questions are very much along the right lines.

And here's another two. Would Stephen have roared off his bike without either (e) telling his Mum and Dad where he was going, and roughly when he would be back and (b) making sure Ben was with his Mum and Dad before he left?
poi gand
In Kerry Needham's book, 'BEN' ,she writes that Stephen went on his bike to fetch fuel at his father's instigation for the following day's work on the renovation project . When Ben's grandmother later  went to the caravan expecting to find Stephen with Ben she spotted the  full can of fuel outside ( if my memory serves me well ) but no Ben or Stephen.
According to Melanie McFadyean (2009 )  , a journalist for the Guardian who later became friendly with the Needham's,  Stephen left the renovation site to go for '' A swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat.''
In 'BEN' Kerry writes that the excavation work being carried out further down the lane had ' stopped for the day.' ( the weather was extremely  hot.............over 100 I believe ) and it was after this that they all lunched with the farmhouse owner with Ben playing around them. Again according to Kerry,  Christine's visit to the farmhouse with Ben was a last minute decision so there was no way anyone would expect them to be there .
A delivery of materials was expected that day but failed to arrive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xqT0mlXdo
Worth showing this video again (posted up stream). Stephen undergoes hypnosis and talks of a 'concrete lorry'.

For my part, I am convinced Stephen did NOT take Ben with him. I think the whole video makes that apparent, but if there is confusion between a 'digger' and a concrete lorry, then maybe there were both and that the police are following not just 'digger' sites.
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Post by tnb 01.10.16 15:09

What we are witnessing here is a ruse to justify an extention of opperation grange. Diggerman, Tractorman, if both were true what would be the odds?
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Post by Liz Eagles 01.10.16 15:22

Nina wrote:
aquila wrote:
Nina wrote:
Doug D wrote:Going back to the ‘hole’ upthread:
 
Police have broken the concrete top of the septic tank:
 ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-case
 http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939602.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
   
 
Corner of  Needham ‘farmouse’ can be seen on the right.
 
***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016***  (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators) - Page 7 Kos-Ben-Needham-casehttp://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8939604.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Kos-Ben-Needham-case.jpg
Thank you Doug D.I was certain that it was a septic tank. To me though it doesn't look like an active one.
It didn't look like a septic tank to me either. There's a difference between a septic tank and a soak-away system. A soak-away system doesn't need to be emptied.

Perhaps that's why the Body Farm specialist has been brought in. These people know about the decomposition of 'matter' within drainage systems - and are experts in this field.
Of course you are correct Aquila. Ours was a soak away and didn't have to be emptied though there was always some residue deep down still to soak. Just looking at the clean blocks and the bottom made me think it was not an active one.
I'm confused as to the breeze block construction. Greece (I lived in Crete) to my knowledge don't do breeze block construction as the norm. Greece produces cement and constructs with cement and metal stilos. There's even a legal requirement to Greek construction in Greece because everything is vulnerable to earth quake. I agree with you Nina, this looks like an unused and strange sewage system construction to me - but I'm no expert and can only speak of my experience.
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Post by Verdi 01.10.16 15:24

tnb wrote:What we are witnessing here is a ruse to justify an extention of opperation grange. Diggerman, Tractorman, if both were true what would be the odds?
Agreed - I said much the same a few days ago.

Too many stark similarities for my liking.

ETA:  If they think Ben Needham was crushed and buried by an earthmover, why are they investigating a man-made hole?  Once again a mirror images of the press coverage of the case of Madeleine McCann over the years.  Journalists should be made to take responsibilty for what they report.

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Post by kaz 01.10.16 15:31

bobbin wrote:
kaz wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
@ sallypelt        I think your questions are very much along the right lines.

And here's another two. Would Stephen have roared off his bike without either (e) telling his Mum and Dad where he was going, and roughly when he would be back and (b) making sure Ben was with his Mum and Dad before he left?
poi gand
In Kerry Needham's book, 'BEN' ,she writes that Stephen went on his bike to fetch fuel at his father's instigation for the following day's work on the renovation project . When Ben's grandmother later  went to the caravan expecting to find Stephen with Ben she spotted the  full can of fuel outside ( if my memory serves me well ) but no Ben or Stephen.
According to Melanie McFadyean (2009 )  , a journalist for the Guardian who later became friendly with the Needham's,  Stephen left the renovation site to go for '' A swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat.''
In 'BEN' Kerry writes that the excavation work being carried out further down the lane had ' stopped for the day.' ( the weather was extremely  hot.............over 100 I believe ) and it was after this that they all lunched with the farmhouse owner with Ben playing around them. Again according to Kerry,  Christine's visit to the farmhouse with Ben was a last minute decision so there was no way anyone would expect them to be there .
A delivery of materials was expected that day but failed to arrive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xqT0mlXdo
Worth showing this video again (posted up stream). Stephen undergoes hypnosis and talks of a 'concrete lorry'.

For my part, I am convinced Stephen did NOT take Ben with him. I think the whole video makes that apparent, but if there is confusion between a 'digger' and a concrete lorry, then maybe there were both and that the police are following not just 'digger' sites.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I just can't see a young man of his age managing to keep up that sort of deception without showing any obvious distress . Could he really have buried the body sufficiently well in that arid soil that birds and other predators wouldn't have disturbed it? I think not. The only reservations I have is that in  Kerry's much later version Stephen went for fuel and that his  mother spotted the FULL can outside the caravan when she arrived there . If the book is the only place this observation is made it just makes me suspect its inclusion and the reason why.
IF as Kerry says work had 'stopped for the day' on the excavation further down the lane ( and this was before Ben went missing ) how could the driver be in any way responsible? As I say they were expecting a delivery of materials that had failed up to that point to have arrived but since they were expecting it surely they would have heard it coming up the lane. No mention of that. In fact it appears to be the 'absence of any sound' that alerted them to his disappearance.
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