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If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

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If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by HiDeHo on 04.09.16 20:28

As can be seen in the video below, there were huge discrepancies and/or confusion about who picked up Madeleine...and also the TWINS...


According to the PJ Diagram of \events it appears that the twins only went in the AFTERNOON and not the morning!

This would explain why Kate and Gerry could not get their story straight about picking up the twins...

Many of us also believe that Maddie was not at the creche either so that leaves us wondering, did they LIE about taking and picking up the twins from the tapas creche and IF SO... What were they doing?

This could make a huge difference to what everyone has told us...

Rachael claims that Maddie and twins went to creche..

Jez tells us that two of Gerrys friends were NOT at tennis Thursday morning... (and more)

This has only just come to my attention, as previously I thought the twins creche records were missing from the files, but the diagram of events \'tells us' they weren't needed as the twins were not at the tapas creche!









McMINUTE DISCREPANCIES: Who picked up Madeleine from the creche on Thursday? 



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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Verdi on 05.09.16 0:03

I may not always agree with you but I do acknowledge and appreciate all your hard work.  Too much for me to read at this time of day - slowly slowly.

Just wanted to say thanks howdy .

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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by skyrocket on 05.09.16 10:07

@HiDeHo


Just when you think there is nothing new left to see in the creche records, something suddenly hits you. Your excellent, questioning posts focus the mind on the minutiae.


Could it be that Thursday morning was related to something that was happening on Wednesday morning/afternoon (2 May)?


We are told from several quarters that Wed morning started wet and that, the beginner and intermediate, group tennis sessions (scheduled for 9am and 10am) were re-scheduled after lunch that day. Whatever, the truth, this scenario frees up the Mc's from being tied to the tennis courts as usual on Wednesday morning at least.


If we look at the mini creche sheet for Wed 2 May, one of the things that stands out are the number of times the 'parent signature' is actually signed by 'Cat Nanny'. We see that Madeleine is signed in by Gerry at 9.20am and out by Cat at 12.30pm. The 'C' of Cat looks like it is overwriting a 'K' beneath - was someone going to try and sign K.McCann and then changed their mind? Madeleine is then signed back in at 2.45pm, with a bit of a dodgy looking K.McCann signature, and back out at 5.30pm by the K.M.Healy signature.


So, where were Kate and Gerry at 12.30pm - why aren't they shown as picking Madeleine up if they were there to pick the twins up?


If we look at the twins' Toddler2 creche sheets, both Amelie and Sean were signed in by Gerry at 9.10am and out by Kate at 12.25pm - I would suggest all 3 signatures might be suspect. They are back in at 2.40pm (Kate) and out at 5.20pm (Gerry) - again the signatures are all so inconsistent it is difficult to judge which are genuine. In the morning no location is given for the parents and the first mobile number has been written down wrongly. In the afternoon the location/activity is given as 'tennis'.


Now, if we look at the 'parents location' on Madeleine's 2 May creche sheet, we can see a short word squeezed in next to the first mobile number. It took me a couple of minutes to realise what it says - definitely not tennis; tapas; pool; room; beach. Looks like a place name - possibly Peva/Pexa, but no such places in the Algarve. I'm fairly certain that it's 'PeNA'. Purely as an aside, in Spain 'Pena' is usually associated with high rocky outcrops, and with tales of woe normally relating to doomed love and suicidal leaps - not in a ghoulish sense, but more poetic, as in Romeo and Juliet.  Incidentally, in Spain the word translates as 'sorrow', and in Portuguese as 'suffer, experience loss or harm; endure misfortune'. 


I googled 'Pena, Algarve', and the first return was 'Rocha da Pena' a well known Algarve beauty spot just outside the village of Pena on the N124, less than an hours drive to the north east of Luz. The area is a protected wildlife region and the rocha itself is a high limestone escarpment reached by a walk up through wild and rocky terrain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzrhhwKgL1Q



Is this where the Mc's were on Wednesday morning and/or afternoon? If so, they had a lift with someone else (several hire cars within the Mark Warner guest group) or they had direct access to a car themselves. We know they enjoy hiking (ref Paul Cameron's Donegal photos from Easter 2007) and that any rain cleared up quite quickly. Were they there with all/some of their children? 


Purely speculating, could this also have been where they all were on the Thursday 3 May, when the twins were not in creche i.e. did they return for some reason? 


I have a problem relying on any records; any statements. But, I do believe that they are based on a core of actual events with just the incriminating ones removed or re-worked. It's possible that some of the info which should have been removed was overlooked.
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Doug D on 05.09.16 10:49




Copy of the crèche sheets for 2nd May from Nigels site:
 
Writing before the phone number could just about be ‘Pena’ or many other things, at first glance ‘Room’ jumps out to me.
 
Without seeing the original document and/or interviewing the writer/crèche workers we are never going to know.

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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Doug D on 05.09.16 10:52

Even less clear copy from Pamalam's site:


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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by skyrocket on 05.09.16 11:20

@DougD

Thanks for posting the relevant sheet. 

You may well be right. As always, your opinion is as equally valid as mine or anyone's. We don't seem to agree on any of the handwritten records! 

Anyway, the suggestion I made is out there for others to mull over. .
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by HiDeHo on 05.09.16 11:44

A little better?




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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by MayMuse on 05.09.16 12:00

Looks like Room to me also.
So would that fit if it was wet and tennis rearranged for the afternoon?
Enjoy how your brain works @skyrocket winkwink

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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by skyrocket on 05.09.16 12:09

@HiDeHo

Firstly - thanks very much. Much better!

Secondly - flippin heck! At low mag I'm still seeing 'PeNA'; at high mag, still 'PeNA' (although admittedly not as clearly and it looks like overwriting may have taken place). BUT, bizarrely, I can now see the outline (no fill) of an uppercase, printed 'M' between the final letter and the zero of the mobile number!

I genuinely can't see 'Room' at low or high mag - but that might just be my brain.

Unfortunately, when Maria the cleaner gives her statement about G & K being on their own and just leaving 5A on Wed 2 May, she doesn't give a time.
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by skyrocket on 05.09.16 12:13

@MayMuse - thanks! smilie 

Might (was going to say 'must' but I'm a bit stubborn) just be me then!

Least you've all learnt a bit about an Algarve beauty spot.
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by roz on 25.02.17 16:09

(I am not sure if this is the right place to put this.)
Jacqueline Mary Williams, Pre-school teacher, OC
That on 3rd May at about 22.05 she was working at the Mini Club, at the "dinner time period" together with colleagues Charlotte and Amy, when a female individual arrived, whose name she does not know, just that she was the mother of a child there (belonging to Toddlers 2), being a guest who was staying at the resort and who left at the end of the week, who told her that a girl called "Maddie" has disappeared, and that the girl's parents needed help in looking for her.

I can only deduce that this ‘mother of a child’ was Bullen (Carroll) whose son was in the Jellyfish group with the twins (and Lily), and who had also been dining at the Tapas that evening (Thursday) from 7.00pm. If so, she was still in the Tapas area when Kate returned to raise the alarm.
Bullen then walked from this area to the Night crèche /Mini Club (to collect her son?), and told the staff there.
It may not be of much relevance, but is this how Amy Tierney etc, seemed to ‘know’ it was Maddie McCann? (I have noticed how ‘busy’ AT was on the Thursday night.)
I would like to have read Bullen’s statement re Kate raising the alarm, (and what time), but I do not see one.
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Philip Anders on 25.02.17 16:39

Why does Kate alternate between McCann & Healy?
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by roz on 25.02.17 17:12

Possibly she only signed McCann for creche purposes, and signed Healy that Wednesday because her mind was somewhere else; (possibly part of the grieving process.)
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by roz on 25.02.17 17:30

I think Kate could have signed it ‘Going to be abducted’ and Cat would not have noticed.
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Guest on 25.02.17 18:00

@MayMuse wrote:Looks like Room to me also.
So would that fit if it was wet and tennis rearranged for the afternoon?
Enjoy how your brain works @skyrocket winkwink
Hi - it was transcribed by the police as room and I think it says room May 2 and Tennis/Room May 3 as I blew it up and it definitely looks like room but your idea is way more interesting. I noticed that May 3 Gerry signs Maddie in at 9.10 but Kate takes sole responsibility (it seems) collecting Maddie, returning Maddie and taking the twins and collecting them. Where was Gerry?
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by JRP on 25.02.17 21:25

@Philip Anders wrote:Why does Kate alternate between McCann & Healy?

Maybe somebody didn't know she used the name Healy, and presumed when signing on her behalf she'd use McCann?

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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Yvie Han on 25.02.17 21:50

Looks like "Pena" to me also, and would that be the reason they wrote BOTH their mobile numbers down as they were going off site?
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Re: If the TWINS were not at their creche Thursday morning why did the McCanns LIE and what were they doing between 9am and 12.30PM?

Post by Guest on 26.02.17 10:24

@JRP wrote:
@Philip Anders wrote:Why does Kate alternate between McCann & Healy?

Maybe somebody didn't know she used the name Healy, and presumed when signing on her behalf she'd use McCann?
I think the opposite - the day she signs in as Healy is not her handwriting - a friend (the person who also signed in Ella) has signed Maddie in, not knowing that she's used McCann previously for the sake of clarity. The PJ knew something was wrong here and brought in a handwriting expert for analysis. We do not know (I think) what the findings were in detail but we are told in the case file that "Our suspicions were confirmed." 

I want to know more about the supposed boat trip - was the weather suitable to take a group of pre-schoolers who presumably couldn't swim out if the sea was choppy?
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Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

Retired murder DCI Colin Sutton: "I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

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