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"What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by NickE on 03.09.16 21:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:QUOTE

Immediately, the question concerning the differentiating value of some haplotypes [haplotype (Greek haploos = single) is a combination of alleles at multiple loci that are transmitted together on the same chromosome] was raised,
namely concerning JANE TANNER, page 4175, which was located in a residence in Burgau, which, in our understanding, would not be viable and logical, or to say the least, would be very strange.

REPLY: This may not have sounded 'viable' or 'logical', and may have been thought 'very strange', back in 2007 - but now that we have uncovered the Krokowski/Lourenco deception & fabrication, hairs of Jane Tanner and Robert being found in the Krokowskis' apartment seems

...viable...

...logical...

...and not so strange  
Yes Tony, in Sweden we have a juridical term, "Strong circumstances evidence" and that term would fit here.

The hair was not the same haplotype as David Payne,Fiona Payne,Webster,Matt Oldfield,Rachel or Kate and Gery McCann,the hair was the same haplotype as Jane Tanner who claim she saw a man with a child and came up with the description of Krokowski.
This Krokowski stayed in that apartment where this strong circumstances evidence was found.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 0:05

I'm not trying to play down the importance of the creche register entries for the week 29th April/3rd May 2007 as regards Madeleine McCann's mysterious disappearance (everything deserves to be under the microscope) but I do think it's important to keep things in perspective.

Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.  Same with a list of guests served at a restaurant - to monitor food consumption and ensure that no one is at the trough that shouldn't be.  Same again with the sporting activity registers - to avoid over/under booking and make provision for replacing some unfortunate camper that injures his/her Achilles tendon so can't join the sporting group.

I once knew of a very fussy singleton of advancing years with a vitamin B complex dependence (insisted on a local doctor for daily injections), despite many visits to the same hotel over the years, she was never ever satisfied with her accommodation.  In the space of a week she would change rooms about three times each visit - can you imagine the poor reception staff trying to juggle available accommodation and keep track of her whereabouts?  Another instance I recall, a family group of five adults took it upon themselves to make frequent uninvited visits to the hotel kitchens because they thought the food was being recycled from one day to the next, so to speak.  They got up a petition for other guests to sign with a view to suing for compensation on their return to the UK - turned out they were only booked for bed and breakfast!  Who'd be in the tourist industry - a thankless task to say the least.

Whatever, be assured that the seasonal workers employed by tour companies are not there because they're dedicated to their vocation - I believe that to be the last thing on their list of priorities so don't expect a professional approach.

You don't even need to work or be around the industry to understand what goes on, you only need be a fellow camper with a wandering eye for detail - in short a nosy beggar or as I prefer to call it, an inquisitive nature.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by MayMuse on 04.09.16 0:40

Everything needs to be under the microscope, yes @verdi it does,you are correct. So,why isn't everything? 
A child, a minor, a tiny innocent & vulnerable little girl has vanished without a trace, you would think to find what happened to her was priority wouldn't you? But no, her parents sue all and sundry & try and shut down anyone who dares to go against their "theory" naming them trolls!  The authorities make a hogwash of the review cum investigation along with the media coining in big time! 

Mark Warner/ Ocean Club seem to have slipped through the net of being sued? It appears they have not even done their own internal investigation? Wouldn't a company like that want to vet all employees, check and secure all apartments etc etc etc? No they just let those employees move on or were they pushed? Did they ever make a report for the incident? I don't recall one? 
Most odd! 
IMHO

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by whodunit on 04.09.16 0:47

@NickE wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:QUOTE

Immediately, the question concerning the differentiating value of some haplotypes [haplotype (Greek haploos = single) is a combination of alleles at multiple loci that are transmitted together on the same chromosome] was raised,
namely concerning JANE TANNER, page 4175, which was located in a residence in Burgau, which, in our understanding, would not be viable and logical, or to say the least, would be very strange.

REPLY: This may not have sounded 'viable' or 'logical', and may have been thought 'very strange', back in 2007 - but now that we have uncovered the Krokowski/Lourenco deception & fabrication, hairs of Jane Tanner and Robert being found in the Krokowskis' apartment seems

...viable...

...logical...

...and not so strange  
Yes Tony, in Sweden we have a juridical term, "Strong circumstances evidence" and that term would fit here.

The hair was not the same haplotype as David Payne,Fiona Payne,Webster,Matt Oldfield,Rachel or Kate and Gery McCann,the hair was the same haplotype as Jane Tanner who claim she saw a man with a child and came up with the description of Krokowski.
This Krokowski stayed in that apartment where this strong circumstances evidence was found.

BOOM. Indeed.

The argument that the hair evidence is meaningless because 10% of Europe's population shares the same haplotype is thereby rendered moot. By this flawed argument  the hairs should have matched every one of the Tapas. 

Throw in a match to Murat and the odds it WASN'T him or Tanner must be approaching the astronomical.
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by MayMuse on 04.09.16 2:22

I wonder how much circumstantial evidence there is? 
Would it be worth compiling a comprehensive list, the same as for all of the discrepancies and the factual evidence ?

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Doug D on 04.09.16 5:43

Verdi:
 
‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’
 
Big difference between activity bookings/meal records and those for the crèche, whether they are strictly legal documents or not.
 
Little Johny is being signed in to the care of the crèche staff and then back out again to his parent or (should be) authorized responsible person.
 
Yes, Portugal may be different, but just imagine an OFSTED inspector walking into a nursery in this country, asking after a particular child who has been signed in and being told they didn’t know where they were. ‘He may have gone home already’ just wouldn’t wash.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 12:23

@MayMuse wrote:Everything needs to be under the microscope, yes @verdi it does,you are correct. So,why isn't everything? 
A child, a minor, a tiny innocent & vulnerable little girl has vanished without a trace, you would think to find what happened to her was priority wouldn't you? But no, her parents sue all and sundry & try and shut down anyone who dares to go against their "theory" naming them trolls!  The authorities make a hogwash of the review cum investigation along with the media coining in big time! 

Mark Warner/ Ocean Club seem to have slipped through the net of being sued
? It appears they have not even done their own internal investigation? Wouldn't a company like that want to vet all employees, check and secure all apartments etc etc etc? No they just let those employees move on or were they pushed? Did they ever make a report for the incident? I don't recall one? 
Most odd! 
IMHO
You make a very good point, albeit with a hint of sarcasm I think.  When you read the comments from the McCann support network about such as Warners should have told their guests about the local burglaries and displayed a notice in all rooms advising guests to keep their valuables safe  duh - it's a wonder they didn't try to sue the company for negligence.

Then again, Warners did provide them with alternative temporary accommodation, fed them and housed their extensive flow of visiting family and friends and allowed the twins to continue using the creche and other complex facilities.

smilie

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 12:43

@MayMuse wrote:Everything needs to be under the microscope, yes @verdi it does,you are correct. So,why isn't everything?

I think you already know the answer to that one!
 

Mark Warner/ Ocean Club seem to have slipped through the net of being sued? It appears they have not even done their own internal investigation? Wouldn't a company like that want to vet all employees, check and secure all apartments etc etc etc? ... Did they ever make a report for the incident? I don't recall one?

An internal inquiry and report by Warners/Ocean Club management would be an inevitable consequence of such an incident involving the police but not necessarily included in the PJ files published.

Let's face it, in fairness to the tour operators, when a couple of irresponsible parents openly admit they left their three very young vulnerable children at night in an unlocked apartment resulting in the disappearance of one - what can you do or say?




 


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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by bobbin on 04.09.16 12:55

@sallypelt wrote:
@Hobs wrote:
@Doug D wrote:MayMuse,
 


 
All of the available creche sheets can be found here:
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id351.html
 
As for a timeline, it depends who you want to believe, if anyone.
 
Only ‘definite’s’ are from the Paraiso CCTV footage which can be found here:
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id213.html
Anyone else notice the change in signature of kate?
For the twins, her signature on the jellyfish page is almost printed, especially the way the letter N is signed.
It is the same signature for signing the twins in and then out.

In the lobsters registration page, the signature  signing Maddie in and out for the morning session is kate's and matches the signatures used for signing in and collecting the twins.
The signature for signing Maddie in for the afternoon session matches the previous signatures.
The signing out for Maddie is markedly different.
It is almost cursive in style and the letter N isn't remotely close to how kate signed her name earlier at sign in for Maddie or sign in and collection of the twins.
Her normal signature shows the letter N as two separate letters, almost printed, yet the signature for Maddie leaving shows the letter N as cursive and almost looking like the letter M, the letter A s also different.

The then begs the question as to who signed Maddie out that afternoon if the signee was not kate as indicated by the different signature?
If the signee was not kate yet signed out as kate why the need to fake a signature?
Where was kate then if she wasn't collecting Maddie?

If it were kate, why the change in signature?
If the signature was forged, why was it done so badly given they had a signature they could have copied?
If the signee was gerry, why not sign his own name?
If it were one of the tapas 7 why not use their own name/signature?

Did the adults collecting the children have to prove they were the parent or approved to collect said child from the creche?
If so, what proof was required, especially since the creche workers would not have been that familiar with the parents of the children, particularly at the beginning of the week?

If the signee was not kate  but one of the tapas group would the staff have noticed the sex of the collecting adult and, if spotting the signature was supposedly that of the mother and yet it was a male that had collected Maddie, was anything said?

Did anyone watch the registration being signed whilst dropping off or collecting a child?
If so, did they not ask why the signature did not match the gender of the name, ie a male signing as kate?
If it was a female would they have been recognized as not being kate and asked why they were signing as kate?
Were arrangements in place to allow members of the tapas to collect any of the children from the group?
If so, was this a usual practice?
If not, why was it allowed?
Who allowed it?

If the signature was added later as the collecting parent had forgotten to sign out, who signed as kate?
Why was it added?
When was it added?

The page was supposedly registration for 3rd May, the day Maddie was allegedly abducted, was Maddie even there?
Since i believe Maddie died earlier in the week allowing time for the almost forensic clean up of the apartment and removal of her body, did any of the creche workers actually remember with certainty seeing Maddie and interacting with her on 3rd may?
If the registration page was signed with a creche worker as a witness are they 100% certain it was Maddie being signed in?

If Maddie died earlier in the week as indicated by the sensitivity in language regarding the beginning of the week, the change in breakfast and lunchtime routines with the mccanns eating  away from the group, who was being presented as Maddie?

Would the child have not told the creche workers they were not called Maddie/Madeleine at some point during the session?
If the child was already named Maddie/Madeleine, and since we know none of the other children in the tapas 7 group was called Maddie/Madeleine, why would they join the conspiracy to conceal Maddie's death?

Were the creche workers involved in the subsequent cover up?
If so why?
How would they benefit?
What could they have lost?

So many questions, so few answers.
When a question does get an answer, it only leads to more questions.
Also, how many mums forget how to spell their own child's name? Madelene????
Fantastic observation sallypelt. Madelene ..... also Hobs, the signatures.

I note the difference in the M's.

Kate McCann systematically makes her M's with an 'up, down, up, down' movement. The M with the "Madelene" is an M that goes 'up, over, down, up, over down'. Rounded rather than sharp.

Clearly some fudging here, dishonesty, to say the least. IMO

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 12:56

@Doug D wrote:Verdi:
 
‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’
 
Big difference between activity bookings/meal records and those for the crèche, whether they are strictly legal documents or not.
 
Little Johny is being signed in to the care of the crèche staff and then back out again to his parent or (should be) authorized responsible person.
 
Yes, Portugal may be different, but just imagine an OFSTED inspector walking into a nursery in this country, asking after a particular child who has been signed in and being told they didn’t know where they were. ‘He may have gone home already’ just wouldn’t wash.
I'm merely trying to point out that attendance records kept by a tourist complex are for internal administrative purposes only.

What you say about signing a child in and out of a creche  is of course correct but I don't think an established registered regular daycare establishment for children in the UK (by example) can be compared to an ad-hoc service provided by a tourist establishment.  I won't go into to detail as it's not really relevant but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.

I'm not an authority on the subject, I only speak from personal experience.  If you or others have experienced different then I can only say it goes to show there is not governing body or global policy to control services provided by the hotel industry.  Thank goodness, there's enough establishment control over our lives without adding to it!

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 12:59

@MayMuse wrote:I wonder how much circumstantial evidence there is?
A list as long as a piece of string... yes !

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by aquila on 04.09.16 13:02

@Verdi wrote:
@Doug D wrote:Verdi:
 
‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’
 
Big difference between activity bookings/meal records and those for the crèche, whether they are strictly legal documents or not.
 
Little Johny is being signed in to the care of the crèche staff and then back out again to his parent or (should be) authorized responsible person.
 
Yes, Portugal may be different, but just imagine an OFSTED inspector walking into a nursery in this country, asking after a particular child who has been signed in and being told they didn’t know where they were. ‘He may have gone home already’ just wouldn’t wash.
I'm merely trying to point out that attendance records kept by a tourist complex are for internal administrative purposes only.

What you say about signing a child in and out of a creche  is of course correct but I don't think an established registered regular daycare establishment for children in the UK (by example) can be compared to an ad-hoc service provided by a tourist establishment.  I won't go into to detail as it's not really relevant but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.

I'm not an authority on the subject, I only speak from personal experience.  If you or others have experienced different then I can only say it goes to show there is not governing body or global policy to control services provided by the hotel industry.  Thank goodness, there's enough establishment control over our lives without adding to it!
I think you'll find Verdi that Mark Warner had an insurance policy under which terms they were probably required to provide evidence of their child care service and its administration - they were hardly saying 'leave your children here at your own risk' were they?
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by whodunit on 04.09.16 15:01

@aquila wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@Doug D wrote:Verdi:
 
‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’
 
Big difference between activity bookings/meal records and those for the crèche, whether they are strictly legal documents or not.
 
Little Johny is being signed in to the care of the crèche staff and then back out again to his parent or (should be) authorized responsible person.
 
Yes, Portugal may be different, but just imagine an OFSTED inspector walking into a nursery in this country, asking after a particular child who has been signed in and being told they didn’t know where they were. ‘He may have gone home already’ just wouldn’t wash.
I'm merely trying to point out that attendance records kept by a tourist complex are for internal administrative purposes only.

What you say about signing a child in and out of a creche  is of course correct but I don't think an established registered regular daycare establishment for children in the UK (by example) can be compared to an ad-hoc service provided by a tourist establishment.  I won't go into to detail as it's not really relevant but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from.

I'm not an authority on the subject, I only speak from personal experience.  If you or others have experienced different then I can only say it goes to show there is not governing body or global policy to control services provided by the hotel industry.  Thank goodness, there's enough establishment control over our lives without adding to it!
I think you'll find Verdi that Mark Warner had an insurance policy under which terms they were probably required to provide evidence of their child care service and its administration - they were hardly saying 'leave your children here at your own risk' were they?

Exactly. Even when on holidays most people (barring the Mcs apparently ) are still very concerned with the safety of their children. Parents like to be assured that not just any old Tom Dick or Harry could amble in off the streets and sign their children out of creche.
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 19:53

@aquila wrote:I think you'll find Verdi that Mark Warner had an insurance policy under which terms they were probably required to provide evidence of their child care service and its administration - they were hardly saying 'leave your children here at your own risk' were they?
This is taking on a life of it's own!

Why Aquila, of course Warners would have comprehensive insurance cover which would include health and safety provisions within all premises under their management and no, they were not saying 'leave your children at your own risk' any more than any other public building would have a notice at the door 'enter at your peril'.  I don't even understand where all this is coming from, I haven't suggested anything of the kind.

As I originally said, my comments about attendance records and the lackadaisical attitude adopted by seasonal workers are based on my personal experience.  The reader can take it or leave it - it matters not.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by aquila on 04.09.16 20:29

Here's a read about Mark Warner and their insurance companies - the article was written in 2009.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/04/madeleine-mcann-disappearance-holiday-resort
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by aquila on 04.09.16 20:35

@Verdi wrote:
@aquila wrote:I think you'll find Verdi that Mark Warner had an insurance policy under which terms they were probably required to provide evidence of their child care service and its administration - they were hardly saying 'leave your children here at your own risk' were they?
This is taking on a life of it's own!

Why Aquila, of course Warners would have comprehensive insurance cover which would include health and safety provisions within all premises under their management and no, they were not saying 'leave your children at your own risk' any more than any other public building would have a notice at the door 'enter at your peril'.  I don't even understand where all this is coming from, I haven't suggested anything of the kind.

As I originally said, my comments about attendance records and the lackadaisical attitude adopted by seasonal workers are based on my personal experience.  The reader can take it or leave it - it matters not.
Verdi, you made the following unsubstantiated comment

‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’

You see Verdi, it's my opinion that they are legal documents.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by whodunit on 04.09.16 21:24

@aquila wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@aquila wrote:I think you'll find Verdi that Mark Warner had an insurance policy under which terms they were probably required to provide evidence of their child care service and its administration - they were hardly saying 'leave your children here at your own risk' were they?
This is taking on a life of it's own!

Why Aquila, of course Warners would have comprehensive insurance cover which would include health and safety provisions within all premises under their management and no, they were not saying 'leave your children at your own risk' any more than any other public building would have a notice at the door 'enter at your peril'.  I don't even understand where all this is coming from, I haven't suggested anything of the kind.

As I originally said, my comments about attendance records and the lackadaisical attitude adopted by seasonal workers are based on my personal experience.  The reader can take it or leave it - it matters not.
Verdi, you made the following unsubstantiated comment

‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’

You see Verdi, it's my opinion that they are legal documents.


They would certainly be admissible in court, as would the attendance records of any school or creche in the case of a missing child.
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by aquila on 04.09.16 21:47

I've snipped this from the Guardian article I posted up-thread.

Mark Warner built its firm on its claim of being one of the most child-friendly holiday companies. It is popular with middle-class parents who can relax while their children are looked after. The firm, founded in 1974, says on its website: "For over 30 years we have led the way in childcare and have kids' clubs for all ages with free evening creche service."

.................

In order to have made such a claim Mark Warner would have to have very stringent childcare policy and procedures with absolutely no room for lackadaisical, sloppy administration - people are entrusting the care of their children - not asking someone to mind their luggage.

There would also be a vetting system for creche workers and nannies surely.

What insurance company would cover any liability for even an accident whilst a child is in the care of Mark Warner without being provided with clear and precise details of their policy and procedures? Thus, the creche records are legal documents.

I do understand what Verdi is getting at but I can't accept that the creche records were just a note to
record attendance and contact numbers. No, the creche records were a legal requirement in duty of care as would be expected from any company providing these services - and we're not speaking of a tinpot company, we're speaking of a company that majored on selling its childcare - a British company selling this service to British people who expect best practice of childcare in Britain.
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by tnb on 04.09.16 22:06

Don't know if this has been asked before but does anyone know if Madeleine had any food alergies, such as nuts, eggs,dairy etc. Just a thought.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by aquila on 04.09.16 22:14

@tnb wrote:Don't know if this has been asked before but does anyone know if Madeleine had any food alergies, such as nuts, eggs,dairy etc. Just a thought.
Well put it this way, Madeleine's parents took a huge risk for Madeleine against the advice of the PJ to highlight her eye defect as it was a good marketing ploy. The eye defect was then reduced to a fleck which was hardly noticeable.

If Madeleine had any food allergies I'm sure Kate would have mentioned it in her bewk along the lines of 'we didn't want to mention it at the time because it may have put Madeleine in danger' sort of thing.

I think your theory can be discounted.

ETA: Parents of abducted children who need medical attention/have special needs usually reveal this - Coral Jones did when April required daily medication.

ETA again: Mark Warner had a bracelet/registration policy. Any special requirements were to be declared by the parents.
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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Nina on 04.09.16 22:46

@aquila wrote:I've snipped this from the Guardian article I posted up-thread.

Mark Warner built its firm on its claim of being one of the most child-friendly holiday companies. It is popular with middle-class parents who can relax while their children are looked after. The firm, founded in 1974, says on its website: "For over 30 years we have led the way in childcare and have kids' clubs for all ages with free evening creche service."

.................

In order to have made such a claim Mark Warner would have to have very stringent childcare policy and procedures with absolutely no room for lackadaisical, sloppy administration - people are entrusting the care of their children - not asking someone to mind their luggage.

There would also be a vetting system for creche workers and nannies surely.

What insurance company would cover any liability for even an accident whilst a child is in the care of Mark Warner without being provided with clear and precise details of their policy and procedures? Thus, the creche records are legal documents.

I do understand what Verdi is getting at but I can't accept that the creche records were just a note to
record attendance and contact numbers. No, the creche records were a legal requirement in duty of care as would be expected from any company providing these services - and we're not speaking of a tinpot company, we're speaking of a company that majored on selling its childcare - a British company selling this service to British people who expect best practice of childcare in Britain.
One like is just not sufficient. Every word correct. Holidays are laid back, child care with the emphasis on the word care isn't and shouldn't be,

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Nina on 04.09.16 22:48

@aquila wrote:
@tnb wrote:Don't know if this has been asked before but does anyone know if Madeleine had any food alergies, such as nuts, eggs,dairy etc. Just a thought.
Well put it this way, Madeleine's parents took a huge risk for Madeleine against the advice of the PJ to highlight her eye defect as it was a good marketing ploy. The eye defect was then reduced to a fleck which was hardly noticeable.

If Madeleine had any food allergies I'm sure Kate would have mentioned it in her bewk along the lines of 'we didn't want to mention it at the time because it may have put Madeleine in danger' sort of thing.

I think your theory can be discounted.

ETA: Parents of abducted children who need medical attention/have special needs usually reveal this - Coral Jones did when April required daily medication.

ETA again: Mark Warner had a bracelet/registration policy. Any special requirements were to be declared by the parents.
She mentioned her fear of pain and hoping whoever had her rubbed her tummy when she got tummy ache.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 23:29

@aquila wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
@aquila wrote:I think you'll find Verdi that Mark Warner had an insurance policy under which terms they were probably required to provide evidence of their child care service and its administration - they were hardly saying 'leave your children here at your own risk' were they?
This is taking on a life of it's own!

Why Aquila, of course Warners would have comprehensive insurance cover which would include health and safety provisions within all premises under their management and no, they were not saying 'leave your children at your own risk' any more than any other public building would have a notice at the door 'enter at your peril'.  I don't even understand where all this is coming from, I haven't suggested anything of the kind.

As I originally said, my comments about attendance records and the lackadaisical attitude adopted by seasonal workers are based on my personal experience.  The reader can take it or leave it - it matters not.
Verdi, you made the following unsubstantiated comment

‘Attendance records kept for services and activities provided by any holiday complex are not legal documents so they don't need to be applied nor maintained with military precision.  The creche register for example would only be to monitor attendance and show a contact point in the event of an emergency - no other reason.’

You see Verdi, it's my opinion that they are legal documents.

Because a company has a comprehensive insurance policy which would include cover in the event of a claim against the company for negligence associated with a health and safety clause doesn't, to my way of thinking, equate to a tourist complex service attendance record being classified as a legal document.

An attendance record for any service provided by the tourist industry is primarily an administrative procedure operated by the company;  insurance policies rarely go into such detail as identifying specific requirements within any category covered by a policy but might be called to question in the event of a claim by the insured. 

What's expected by the client from the service provider is seldom if ever satisfactory - the glossy holiday brochure is but an advertising medium to lure the prospective customer but the reality is invariably a big disappointment.

I stand by my original comments although I acknowledge your point.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by Verdi on 04.09.16 23:57

No doubt many people remember these reports..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/03_march/05/whistleblower.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7278514.stm

A matter of personal choice whether you believe it or not but nonetheless worth a read.

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Re: "What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Post by aquila on 05.09.16 12:12

It is a legal requirement to log the presence of the children dropped off in the creche building. It's standard procedure in case of fire isn't it?

It is a legal requirement to protect the creche employees that the children dropped off in their care are signed in and out with methodical accuracy.

Have a look at Mark Warner's holiday terms and conditions and you'll find a lot of legal stuff as to the liability Mark Warner undertake.
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