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Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

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What next for the Labour Party?

52% 52% 
[ 33 ]
3% 3% 
[ 2 ]
44% 44% 
[ 28 ]
 
Total Votes : 63

Ref; Labour Party/Food Banks

Post by willowthewisp on 22.07.16 13:55

Hi Verdi,I personally have never been unfortunate to have to had to rely on "Food Banks" but we all now know they exist and there is a strong association to only being allowed to access them Three times if you are in receipt of State Benefit entitlements,the DWP are very reluctant to provide data that can be proof to show correlation as a fact,that this is targeted to the poorer communities?
Our Family grew up at a time when there was no Benefit payments to Adults and the only guaranteed money was by the accession of having children and the funds associated, where paid to the Mother, by a Labour Government!
So the 6+Childern and adults were known as the poor working class put to work in the often harsh "Heavy Industrial Towns" pit jobs,steel works,Farming etc. 
Then if there was no work to be done, they were put to use fighting Wars for the "Elite Echelons" to sit in their protected assets in Air raid shelters, to resurface after the Wars with declarations of the War ending with moments to enjoy"Freedom" once again?
We in the UK have seen successive Governments manipulate the need for "War" when it suits their cause,Falklands,Iraq,Iran,Libya and much as Michael Moore's films depict the people in these conflict zones are from the least affluent parts of the Country, who enlisted to escape from poverty in society and it isn't the Elected members of Office who enlist their own children to the"National Service"eh George W draft dodger?
In the UK Houses of Parliament nearly Seventy percent are Millionaires(460) which leaves(199) of a less affluent part of society,so in reality the chances of any vote to amend the present and future Laws have very little chance of ever being amended by the Elite Club of Members, known as the MP's Gravy Train, choo,chooing to bigger positions if you keep your Snout clean from the feeding trough,Kinnock clan, eh Stephen, have you ever worked in Heavy Industry, Farming in Wales, thought not,Silver Spoon Stephen,daady and Mummy fixed you up in an EU position after a hard time at University, paid by the Tax payer, eh Neil?
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Verdi on 22.07.16 15:53

Living standards in the UK have increased dramatically in the last 60 years, the average citizen has more money in the bank and greater spending power than they've ever known, yet there is still talk of extreme poverty?  If this situation that mystifies me so has been created by benefit cuts, I must ask why those so seriously affected have been reduced to begging - why were they on benefits in the first place?  Have the genuine cases in real need of financial aid been targeted here or is it the benefit frauds that seem to think the world owes them a living.  I ask because I have never encountered anyone who has been reduced to absolute poverty by David Cameron's austerity measures.

It's a kin to the point I recently made about people who rely on regular overtime to dictate their standard of living.  Living above their means, take away the overtime and they can no longer afford to pay the mortgage etc.  In reality, are there any people out there in the UK that are so destitute - is their idea of poverty not being able to buy the latest state of the art technology?

A good example I can give from a personal observation.  The other day I saw a young bloke begging on the streets, accompanied by heavily pregnant woman and baby - whilst waiting for the next sucker to throw him a coin, the bloke was amusing himself on his i-pad.

Such is social injustice!

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 22.07.16 15:58

@Verdi wrote:I've seen many a moan about benefits being cut causing destitution within a particular sector of society but I've yet to see a reasonable argument as to why the public purse should finance any persons lifestyle choices. 
It's a long argument Verdi but...

If we had full employment we wouldn't have this problem and people would have a real choice.

We don't have full employment because the workers are easier to control that way.

The system is unfair and we have a deliberately engineered unclass started by Thatcher when she broke the power of ordinary workers.

This was continued by Tory-Lite New Labour.

The system is bent in favor of those with money and discriminates against the less able and powerless in society.

It's the exploiters vs the exploited.

After World War II ordinary people were given a brief foot in, then it was slowly chipped away from them by increasingly right of centre governments, and I include Tony Blair's New Labour.

I'm reading Tony Benn books at the moment. He knew the game being played.
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 22.07.16 15:59

@Verdi wrote:Living standards in the UK have increased dramatically in the last 60 years, the average citizen has more money in the bank and greater spending power than they've ever known,
No!

Debt has never been greater!

Debt is another cynical control instrument.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/mar/23/average-uk-household-owe-10000-debt-by-end-2016
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by sallypelt on 22.07.16 16:07

Bluebag:
"I'm reading Tony Benn books at the moment. He knew the game being played".

He most certainly did.


"A stalwart of the left, Tony Benn was a critic of tax avoidance measures. As an owner of expensive properties in London and the south of England, it seemed inevitable after his death in March that his family would face a hefty inheritance tax bill".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 22.07.16 19:20

@sallypelt wrote:Bluebag:
"I'm reading Tony Benn books at the moment. He knew the game being played".

He most certainly did.


"A stalwart of the left, Tony Benn was a critic of tax avoidance measures. As an owner of expensive properties in London and the south of England, it seemed inevitable after his death in March that his family would face a hefty inheritance tax bill".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html
Are you saying he didn't pay his taxes?

From the article:  "but official documents suggest he used legitimate tax planning strategies to reduce death duties".

I would look up the word "legitimate" in the dictionary if I were you.

Tony Benn was one of Britain's greatest and most honest parliamentarians.
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by sallypelt on 22.07.16 19:54

@BlueBag wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:Bluebag:
"I'm reading Tony Benn books at the moment. He knew the game being played".

He most certainly did.


"A stalwart of the left, Tony Benn was a critic of tax avoidance measures. As an owner of expensive properties in London and the south of England, it seemed inevitable after his death in March that his family would face a hefty inheritance tax bill".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html
Are you saying he didn't pay his taxes?

From the article:  "but official documents suggest he used legitimate tax planning strategies to reduce death duties".

I would look up the word "legitimate" in the dictionary if I were you.

Tony Benn was one of Britain's greatest and most honest parliamentariansI
I know that Tony Benn didn't do anything illegal. But he criticised the very same tax law when in Parliament, and then went on to use it himself, not to pay taxes. Tony Benn was an advocate of socialism, and we know that socialism COSTS. This comes from taxpayers, so you can't advocate socialism, and then AVOID paying taxes. That is hypocrisy of the tallest order.

Oh, and why would I need to look up the word "legitimate"? I don't recall ever using the word.

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 22.07.16 20:34

@sallypelt wrote:
 But he criticised the very same tax law when in Parliament, and then went on to use it himself, not to pay taxes.
Where did he criticize this tax law that he himself legitimately used?

Oh, and why would I need to look up the word "legitimate"? I don't recall ever using the word.
So you didn't read the article that you linked?
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 22.07.16 20:45

Also... Sallypelt... who in their right mind would pay tax if they legitimately didn't have to?

I will say again.. Tony Benn did nothing wrong and didn't do anything anyone would do under the same circumstances - and LOTS of people have done it - it's not particularly secret. Death tax is immoral anyway.

He was critical of the aggressive tax avoidance schemes/scams that involved investments in bogus offshore companies (usually film companies) that had no other purpose than to avoid tax payments.
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Verdi on 22.07.16 21:06

@BlueBag wrote:
@Verdi wrote:I've seen many a moan about benefits being cut causing destitution within a particular sector of society but I've yet to see a reasonable argument as to why the public purse should finance any persons lifestyle choices. 
It's a long argument Verdi but...

If we had full employment we wouldn't have this problem and people would have a real choice.

This is unworkable ideology.  You can't just create jobs to satisfy demand, at least not in the private sector.  Commerce and the worker go hand in hand, you can't have one without the other and either faction can't prosper unless they work together.

We don't have full employment because the workers are easier to control that way.

I disagree.  In my opinion for one,  the demand for employment outweighs the jobs available and secondly because the modern day worker demand more than their worth on the labour market, plus the reluctance to take on work of a menial nature.  Not forgetting those who just don't want to work.

The system is unfair and we have a deliberately engineered unclass started by Thatcher when she broke the power of ordinary workers.

The ordinary worker abused their power through the trade unions.

This was continued by Tory-Lite New Labour.

No surprise - industry wouldn't last a decade if monopolized by the trade unions.  That was proven by the glory of post war industrial growth, stunted by a blitz of industrial action prompted by the leading trade unions.

The system is bent in favor of those with money and discriminates against the less able and powerless in society.

Favouring those with money is unfortunately a fact of life.  I believe the great divide has been created by the increase in number of wealthy inhabitants of the UK;  sports persons, pop stars, movie stars, television personalities, foreign industrialists and of course politicians - in short, money for nothing.

It's the exploiters vs the exploited.

After World War II ordinary people were given a brief foot in, then it was slowly chipped away from them by increasingly right of centre governments, and I include Tony Blair's New Labour.

I'm reading Tony Benn books at the moment. He knew the game being played.

No comment!

Congratulations BlueBag, you are now officially appointed cynic of the millennium - and I thought that title was mine by right.  I guess this is the reason politics and religion are no go areas. 

bignono

 


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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by sallypelt on 22.07.16 22:15

@BlueBag wrote:Also... Sallypelt... who in their right mind would pay tax if they legitimately didn't have to?

I will say again.. Tony Benn did nothing wrong and didn't do anything anyone would do under the same circumstances - and LOTS of people have done it - it's not particularly secret. Death tax is immoral anyway.

He was critical of the aggressive tax avoidance schemes/scams that involved investments in bogus offshore companies (usually film companies) that had no other purpose than to avoid tax payments.
And I will say it again. I did NOT say he did anything wrong. I was merely pointing out the HYPOCRISY. Tony Benn, who I met on more than one occasion, was a very nice man. However, Tony Benn was a left winger, who passionately believed in socialism. As I've already pointed out, socialism relies on taxes to deliver social programmes. Therefore, I wouldn't have expected Tony Benn to have used a system HE had criticised, to avoid paying taxes.


As Margaret Thatcher once said, 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'



Edited to add: after posting this post, I read back and could see that there were other posts that I hadn't seen. I have said what I wanted to say, and I stick by it. However, I will not be commenting again on this issue. We will have to beg to differ.

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Verdi on 22.07.16 22:57

@sallypelt wrote:
As Margaret Thatcher once said, 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'
Nail on head well and truly hit!

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Verdi on 22.07.16 23:28

@BlueBag wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Living standards in the UK have increased dramatically in the last 60 years, the average citizen has more money in the bank and greater spending power than they've ever known,
No!

Debt has never been greater!

Debt is another cynical control instrument.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/mar/23/average-uk-household-owe-10000-debt-by-end-2016
Yes, because the general population are living above their means.  The debt is the result of over-use of credit cards and ease of access to money by way of ATM - the buy now pay later syndrome.

Has this debt had any serious effect on material gain?  Isn't it the increase in property up-sizing, the 2+ cars per household, expensive long-haul holidays, the wardrobes full of designer label gear, the nursery fees or nanny to care for the children that's responsible for the debt rather than reduced income?

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.07.16 0:06

Hasting to bring this discussion (more or less) back on topic, I have been struck with the striking parallels between the falied coup attempts of the disgruntled Turkish generals and the disgruntled Labour Party general led by Colonel Benn:

Turkey

Ideologically driven Turkish leader seeking to impose his views on a formerly secular society

Labour Party

Fanatic Trotskyist leader imposing his extremist views on a moderate, pragmatic party  



Turkey

Sudden coup attempt by generals taking over the Bosporus Bridge and locations in Ankara 

Labour Party

Colonel Benn's early morning call to Corbyn telling him that most of his MPs are resigning and have no confidence in him

+

Turkey

Leader calls for his people to mass on the streets to oppose the coup attempt

Labour Party

Leader energises his supporters in extremist 'Momentum' sect to join Labour Party en masse; over 180,000 send £4.5 million to frustrate coup plotters Benn, Eagle and Smith 

+

Turkey

Mass demonstrations in favour of the leader

Labour Party

Corbyn wins leadership contest hands down

+

Turkey

Purge of tens of thousands of 'opponents'

Labour Party

MPs backing the coup plotters face deselection




PS    Some bookmakers now have Corbyn at 8-1 ON, while Owen Smith has moved out to 9-2 against.  Game over, surely?

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 23.07.16 6:08

@sallypelt wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:Also... Sallypelt... who in their right mind would pay tax if they legitimately didn't have to?

I will say again.. Tony Benn did nothing wrong and didn't do anything anyone would do under the same circumstances - and LOTS of people have done it - it's not particularly secret. Death tax is immoral anyway.

He was critical of the aggressive tax avoidance schemes/scams that involved investments in bogus offshore companies (usually film companies) that had no other purpose than to avoid tax payments.
And I will say it again. I did NOT say he did anything wrong. I was merely pointing out the HYPOCRISY.
There is no hypocrisy here unless you can find Tony Benn saying death tax is a good thing and that he did something that anyone else couldn't or shouldn't have done.

This story was always a right-wing mountain out of a molehill.
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 23.07.16 6:11

@Verdi wrote:
Has this debt had any serious effect on material gain?  
For an increasing number of people yes.

The day the bank of england increases it's rates even slightly it will be millions - and that is a weapon being held back for now.

The average person owns nothing - literally... net worth NIL OR MINUS... they are indentured slaves who think they are free.
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Courtesy of PeterMac

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 23.07.16 8:07

[/url]


Matt right on form as always.
Peter
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Re;Labour party

Post by willowthewisp on 23.07.16 12:02

@Verdi wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:
As Margaret Thatcher once said, 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'
Nail on head well and truly hit!
Mrs Thatcher,didn't use other peoples money for her State manufactured manipulation of the "Working Class"using the Police as a tool to defeat the Mine Workers and Steel plants,waving their (Cheque books,Orgreve)at them,while giving subsidies to wealthy Farmers,David Cameron's Father inlaw"Wind Turbines"the Tax payer will pay always does?
Dodgy Dave enlarging pay agreements to his staff for "Services Rendered"paid by who,dodgy Dave?
Yes it is true that anyone can point out similarities between Turkey and the present Labour Party dispute,but when you choose selective parts only it distorts or twists,manipulates in favour of one side,eg£3.00- now 25.00 right to vote and if you state that your likely to vote for Corbyn, they take your money but fail to register your right to vote, then pay£25.00 and do Not state Corbyn, your vote is registered, but there is no Gerrymandering happening?
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 23.07.16 14:35

As Margaret Thatcher once said, 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'

Yeah.. like bailing out the banks and protecting Lloyds Names. ... oh wait... THAT was socialism for the rich.
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Verdi on 23.07.16 15:47

Jeremy Corbyn channels David Icke for his new campaign slogan

Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership campaign slogan is ‘The People’s Voice’ – which sounded a little bit familiar. 
Jeremy Corbyn launched his Labour leadership campaign in London this morning
Credit: 
Screengrab, Sky News


Jeremy Corbyn launched his campaign to get re-elected as Labour leader this morning with a speech in London.

With it was a new slogan. Gone is ‘straight talking, honest politics’, and in is ‘The People’s Voice’.
 
“The People’s Voice.” Does that sound familiar?

Well, it turns out it was an internet TV and Radio station created by.... David Icke.

Ah.
 
Icke was last linked to Labour politics last September when he backed Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership the first time around, saying the veteran left-winger was “on the right side” (which was incidentally a rejected slogan from Liz Kendall’s tilt for the leadership last year).

Among those to have pointed out the relation was the official Twitter account for... the Labour party in the House of Lords.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/dot-commons-diary/77537/jeremy-corbyn-channels-david-icke-his

Jeremy Corbyn - Sky News - The Peoples Voice - David Icke - and err err ... forgotten the name!  Is there no end to connections and coincidences?

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by BlueBag on 23.07.16 16:10

Jeremy Corbyn has nothing to do with David Icke.

Any tenuous connections based on an over active imagination are pure spite. 

What's the deal?

Is someone afraid he might make a difference?
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by sar on 24.07.16 9:41

@BlueBag wrote:
As Margaret Thatcher once said, 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'

Yeah.. like bailing out the banks and protecting Lloyds Names. ... oh wait... THAT was socialism for the rich.
....remember BB, it's capitalism for the poor socialism for the rich.   1000% interest for the poor (payday loans), and 0.25% (or less!) interest for those getting money for nothing from the government via quantitative easing.

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by sar on 24.07.16 9:44

@BlueBag wrote:Jeremy Corbyn has nothing to do with David Icke.

Any tenuous connections based on an over active imagination are pure spite. 

What's the deal?

Is someone afraid he might make a difference?
Don't worry there's no link, it will still be used to smear.  Whatever happened to Jill Dando, Princess Diana, John Smith, Robin Cook, Dr David Kelly, etc etc was very convenient to some.

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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by aquila on 25.07.16 13:05

@Verdi wrote:So again I ask, who are these people that have been driven towards food banks and other charitable means to survive as a result of government austerity measures?

I've seen many a moan about benefits being cut causing destitution within a particular sector of society but I've yet to see a reasonable argument as to why the public purse should finance any persons lifestyle choices.  I don't knock anyone for choosing a particular lifestyle but I do object very strongly when I'm expected to pay for their choice.  For example - an individual or couple, decide on a large family like 6 + kids, if that's what they want then it's okay by me but I do expect them to be able to finance that decision themselves before going headlong into realising their dreams.  As I've seen uproar about the effects on state pension entitlement, in which respect I'm astounded that anyone can actually understand government proposals until they see their pay cheque.

The welfare state was an excellent vision to help repair the devastation left by WW2 but  without rigid control it was open to abuse and has given the public a grossly exaggerated sense of entitlement.

So again I ask, who/where are these 21st century examples of post-war Britain, reduced to relying on charity to survive..



I've thankfully never witnessed anything like this - have you?
Be careful what you say Verdi. Food banks are necessary nowadays. Don't base your opinion on watching biased documentaries about people on benefits.

Remember 'there but for the grace of God go I' before standing on a soapbox to say 'live within your means'.

Remember, please remember how the banks robbed those who paid into the system for their pensions. These people go to food banks too.
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Re: Labour Party becomes over £4.5 million richer - thanks to Jeremy Corbyn (20 July 2016)

Post by Verdi on 25.07.16 14:56

@aquila wrote:
Be careful what you say Verdi. Food banks are necessary nowadays. Don't base your opinion on watching biased documentaries about people on benefits.

Remember 'there but for the grace of God go I' before standing on a soapbox to say 'live within your means'.

Remember, please remember how the banks robbed those who paid into the system for their pensions. These people go to food banks too.
No documentaries, no soapbox, no offence meant - just a genuine question.  I frequently see reference to extreme poverty and people being forced to resort to using food banks but I havent personally come across anyone affected specifically by Cameron's austerity measures - I'm wondering if the situation has been blown out of proportion by the media and/or anti-government activists, not exactly unusual.  I'm only interest to know what sector of society has been so drastically affected.

I've no wish to create disharmony - it's no worth pursuing.

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