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playground shadows

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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 01.05.16 19:52

I thought the comparison to the golf photo was a valid and reasonable comment which no one has answered yet by the way but never mind.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by kaz on 01.05.16 19:55

@BlueBag wrote:
@skyrocket wrote:@kaz - exactly. The 'forum monitors' card seems to being overplayed somewhat at the moment! thumbsup
Clarence recently said that's what happening.

Now... if you're going to post about the McCanns then it needs to be reasoned, rational and not easy ammunition for the forum monitors and the media.

If you post something that doesn't stack up (like the shadows in the picture) then expect to be challenged.

I think it's good that we are seen as reasoned critical thinkers and not like people on the David Icke forum.

Indeed I do but not having ever visited the David Icke Forum which you obviously have because you know 'what they're like' I can't comment on that. My argument isn't about the challenge but the rude' hand over the ears' way it's done. I love this forum and have stated the fact elsewhere how it's a mine of information but today after reading  some of the really ancient posts on here I'm once again struck by how some seemingly innocuous but 'off the wall' comments have been shown to have merit at a later date. There was a time when even the 'Last Photo' was being hailed as completely authentic ( date and all ) and still is in some quarters. Well that's fine. It's up to the reader to make a judgement call  and it puzzles me why some posters think they have the monopoly on 'critical thinking.'
I've had my say and won't comment further . I don't want to be banned for voicing my observations . As I have said before, I admire this site.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by plebgate on 01.05.16 20:01

I don't think you would be banned for voicing your observations kaz.

What intrigued me was that the poster said that Tony will verify credentials. So a poster who is not new to the case and possibly forums, so why not just use the search facility instead of creating new thread?

Or am I confused (again). lol

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Re: playground shadows

Post by Guest on 01.05.16 20:06

The new poster, maff2016, was unable to use the search facility so I merged his/her new topic with an existing one.

Back on topic.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by skyrocket on 01.05.16 20:12

Deleted - off topic.

Not sure why that was deleted when it was merely a polite, rational response to @BlueBag making aspersions!

@maff2016 - yes, I think your photo comparison made the point very well about the shadows in the playground photo appearing odd. I also agree with you about the tree in the right background. And,I have concerns about the 4 people's shadows on the left (1 person obscured by woman in black skirt) - directions and converging point. See full frame photo on page 11 of this thread. 

Don't feel that you need to explain yourself to anyone - you are entitled to your opinion despite certain posters suggesting otherwise.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 01.05.16 20:34

@plebgate wrote:I don't think you would be banned for voicing your observations kaz.

What intrigued me was that the poster said that Tony will verify credentials. So a poster who is not new to the case and possibly forums, so why not just use the search facility instead of creating new thread?

Or am I confused (again). lol
I am new to the forums and new to the case. I watched the video's of Richard D Hall recently which have sort of got me up to speed but other than that I don't know an aweful lot about it.
I think I should better explain what I do in a fresh post.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by BlueBag on 02.05.16 8:16

@maff2016 wrote:I thought the comparison to the golf photo was a valid and reasonable comment which no one has answered yet by the way but never mind.
OK.. we'll see.

It depends where the sun is in relation to the photographer.

If the sun is behind the photographer then then  parallel lines will vanish to a point in the middle of the photo.

Shadows on the left will point right.

Shadows on the right will point left.

Shadows in the middle will point straight ahead.

As demonstrated in the picture I posted twice.

The golf picture the sun is behind to the left of the photographer so the vanishing point for the shadows is off to the right  

All shadows will point to a vanishing point off to the right.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by BlueBag on 02.05.16 8:23

Any if anyone wants to know why I always cut to the chase on photo topics... it's because this forum has a history of people coming here to yank our chains on the photos.

The same things.. over.. and over..

It becomes tiresome.

If anyone is interested why I reference David Icke, it because for a few years it was a good forum for discussion of 9/11 issues.. until the no-planers and space-beamers turned up to surround the decent posters (all now gone) with brown stuff so we all looked like nutters. The no-planers had lots of photos... over and over...

Explaining to them about digital compression (and shadows, focal lengths, parallax) was like nailing jelly to a wall.

They knew anyway... that wasn't why they were there.

If this forum sticks to reasoned argument then no one can touch it.

Post pseudo-science and expect challenge - from me anyway.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 02.05.16 11:25

@BlueBag wrote:
@maff2016 wrote:I thought the comparison to the golf photo was a valid and reasonable comment which no one has answered yet by the way but never mind.
OK.. we'll see.

It depends where the sun is in relation to the photographer.

If the sun is behind the photographer then then  parallel lines will vanish to a point in the middle of the photo.

Shadows on the left will point right.

Shadows on the right will point left.

Shadows in the middle will point straight ahead.

As demonstrated in the picture I posted twice.

The golf picture the sun is behind to the left of the photographer so the vanishing point for the shadows is off to the right  

All shadows will point to a vanishing point off to the right.
You talk about the sun as if its a spot light. ALL shadows cast by the sun are exactly parallel no matter where they are, it is only the perspective of the camera that makes them appear otherwise. The sun is 93 million miles away, do you think it casts shadows that are not parallel? If there are 5 posts that are upright and you are in the middle and it appears the posts are casting shadows in different directions, that is because of the perspective of the camera giving a panoramic effect. In reality they are all perfectly parallel. To get a true perspective of this, we must go to an aerial view of the world. In this picture for example all shadows are parallel and there is no argument, however if you were to place yourself in the car park among the cars you would see shadows that appear not to be parallel, in reality they still are in parallel but it just appears that way. It is impossible for an object 93 million miles away to cast shadows in different directions. What we actually need is a photograph expert on the forum not people making up their own pseudo-science.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by aquila on 02.05.16 11:33

No offence here maff2016 but you have declared you're no expert on photography, declared your expertise lies in a different arena, opened up a topic on your specialty, removed the topic and you're now back to discussing photography which is not your area of knowledge.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 02.05.16 11:43

With all due respect the forum member tried to present evidence that I am wrong about the golf comparison and that the Sun casts shadows in different directions. I know from my astronomy days that this is not true and that all shadows cast on Earth are indeed parallel. This has nothing to do with photography at all, it is just a well known fact about the Sun and the Earth. If you want me to agree with the member then that would be just ludicrous when the truth of the matter is different.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by Tony Bennett on 02.05.16 12:02

@plebgate wrote:I don't think you would be banned for voicing your observations kaz.

What intrigued me was that the poster said that Tony will verify credentials. So a poster who is not new to the case and possibly forums, so why not just use the search facility instead of creating new thread?
@ plebgate and @ maff2016

For the record I confirm this from maff2016: "I think the forum has perhaps mistaken me for someone else, like I said my field is not photograhy. My field is phonetic sciences and voice stress analysis which you may be interested in later on in some of my posts. Mr Tony Bennett will verify this if you ask him".

As Ladyinred confirmed, he has sent me two e-mails about the above matters, after he realised he couldn't use the search facility here as a new member. I look forward to a further exchange of information with him. I have no reason whatsoever for thinking he has been here before.  

I do personally regret that the 'Playground Photo' thread is being revisited with flimsy arguments about shadows, and I've never seen anything remotely cogent from skyrocket to justify his view that the photo is a forgery.

In specific response to maff2016, the shadow of the playground house is clearly visible behind the house. You can't see any shadow on the right side of the house because it his hidden. If the person who took the photo had been standing a little more to the right, you would probably see a bit of it.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 02.05.16 12:09

I removed the topic because i'm not going to participate in the voice stress analysis like was originally planned. Having spoken with Tony Bennett and agreed a course of action I've changed my mind. The reason: well, I've been attacked by other members claiming i'm someone else, I presented a simple argument about shadows to which I was attacked for having done so and told off when the forum is supposed to be free thinking.
What will happen when I present evidence from VSR? will that be a no go area too?
The forum has a logo that says 'why not join the forum and help search for the truth'. Your having a laugh I do believe. If you think i'm going to spend weeks and months of my time trying to help people that will be lining up to just personally attack me in an unprofessional manner then you're mistaken.
I've got nothing more to say about any subject whatsoever on this forum.
Those of you that were kind and welcoming, I thank you for your support. To the blood hounds that attacked me, I think you need to grow up a little and stop making assumptions before you know the truth.
Goodbye.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by Guest on 02.05.16 12:13

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@plebgate wrote:I don't think you would be banned for voicing your observations kaz.

What intrigued me was that the poster said that Tony will verify credentials. So a poster who is not new to the case and possibly forums, so why not just use the search facility instead of creating new thread?
@ plebgate and @ maff2016

For the record I confirm this from maff2016: "I think the forum has perhaps mistaken me for someone else, like I said my field is not photograhy. My field is phonetic sciences and voice stress analysis which you may be interested in later on in some of my posts. Mr Tony Bennett will verify this if you ask him".

As Ladyinred confirmed, he has sent me two e-mails about the above matters, after he realised he couldn't use the search facility here as a new member. I look forward to a further exchange of information with him. I have no reason whatsoever for thinking he has been here before.  

I do personally regret that the 'Playground Photo' thread is being revisited with flimsy arguments about shadows, and I've never seen anything remotely cogent from skyrocket to justify his view that the photo is a forgery.

In specific response to maff2016, the shadow of the playground house is clearly visible behind the house. You can't see any shadow on the right side of the house because it his hidden. If the person who took the photo had been standing a little more to the right, you would probably see a bit of it.
@TB,  I wasn't aware that maff2016 had sent you two emails.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 02.05.16 12:17

@ladyinred I think Tony meant private messages not emails.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by Amy Dean on 02.05.16 12:25

New members can't send private messages, can they?
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Re: playground shadows

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 02.05.16 12:27

@Amy Dean wrote:New members can't send private messages, can they?
Not until they've made 10 posts.
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maff2016

Post by aquila on 02.05.16 12:33

@maff2016 wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:@ladyinred I think Tony meant private messages not emails.
We conversed in emails and later through the private massage system. This was because the forum would not allow me to send private messages until three days after my join date. My comments in the photographs section were just from observations and I had absolutely no idea there was a continuing debate running along side the thread I started. I did not expect to be attacked and placed under mistrust however and accused of lying by denying I was someone else.
That's the best laugh I've had all day
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Re: playground shadows

Post by Guest on 02.05.16 12:53

@maff2016 wrote:I removed the topic because i'm not going to participate in the voice stress analysis like was originally planned. Having spoken with Tony Bennett and agreed a course of action I've changed my mind. The reason: well, I've been attacked by other members claiming i'm someone else, I presented a simple argument about shadows to which I was attacked for having done so and told off when the forum is supposed to be free thinking.
What will happen when I present evidence from VSR? will that be a no go area too?
The forum has a logo that says 'why not join the forum and help search for the truth'. Your having a laugh I do believe. If you think i'm going to spend weeks and months of my time trying to help people that will be lining up to just personally attack me in an unprofessional manner then you're mistaken.
I've got nothing more to say about any subject whatsoever on this forum.
Those of you that were kind and welcoming, I thank you for your support. To the blood hounds that attacked me, I think you need to grow up a little and stop making assumptions before you know the truth.
Goodbye.
As you're still here, what was your course of action agreed with TB?
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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 02.05.16 12:59

Those were private emails between Tony and Myself and were in regards to information gathering from as much original source material as we could get our hands on. The way we would present it, what could be discovered from such material and how we would present the evidence so that the forum could understand it in simple terms.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by Guest on 02.05.16 13:05

Interesting, thank you.
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Re: playground shadows

Post by aquila on 02.05.16 13:12

@maff2016 wrote:Those were private emails between Tony and Myself and were in regards to information gathering from as much original source material as we could get our hands on. The way we would present it, what could be discovered from such material and how we would present the evidence so that the forum could understand it in simple terms.
Fascinating stuff and may I ask did you join the forum to clock up a few posts to qualify for private message privilege?

As you did join the forum and immediately opened up a new topic on something not in your field of expertise, why didn't you post your alleged specialty immediately? and more importantly, why did you remove it just as immediately?
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Re: playground shadows

Post by maff2016 on 02.05.16 13:43

@aquila wrote:
@maff2016 wrote:Those were private emails between Tony and Myself and were in regards to information gathering from as much original source material as we could get our hands on. The way we would present it, what could be discovered from such material and how we would present the evidence so that the forum could understand it in simple terms.
Fascinating stuff and may I ask did you join the forum to clock up a few posts to qualify for private message privilege?

As you did join the forum and immediately opened up a new topic on something not in your field of expertise, why didn't you post your alleged specialty immediately? and more importantly, why did you remove it just as immediately?
Tony and myself had agreed a different approach from the one I eventually took and the original plan was to have all other researchers and admin involved, the one I took where I posted the VSR stuff was done because there were so many people on my back claiming I was someone else, I felt I needed to prove I wasn't that person. The plan Tony and myself had in mind was that he himself post the VSR results from my work but it didn't pan out that way. The only reason I ended up on here was because i'd watched Richard Halls video's and came across a link for here and joined, it was then I made the decision that I could apply my field into the research. The photo thing was maybe me being out of my depth in some respects but life is life.
You thought I was some sort of troll gunning for an argument over past subjects but that was wrong. Wires got crossed, people made mistakes including myself, life is life and have a nice day. I have no more to say about photographs or VSR so I won't get involved.
Thankyou.

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Re: playground shadows

Post by BlueBag on 02.05.16 17:18

@maff2016 wrote:

You talk about the sun as if its a spot light. ALL shadows cast by the sun are exactly parallel no matter where they are, it is only the perspective of the camera that makes them appear otherwise. The sun is 93 million miles away, do you think it casts shadows that are not parallel? If there are 5 posts that are upright and you are in the middle and it appears the posts are casting shadows in different directions, that is because of the perspective of the camera giving a panoramic effect. In reality they are all perfectly parallel. To get a true perspective of this, we must go to an aerial view of the world. In this picture for example all shadows are parallel and there is no argument, however if you were to place yourself in the car park among the cars you would see shadows that appear not to be parallel, in reality they still are in parallel but it just appears that way. It is impossible for an object 93 million miles away to cast shadows in different directions. What we actually need is a photograph expert on the forum not people making up their own pseudo-science.
Are you for real?

I knew you would carry it on even when it is explained to you.

Nail.. jelly... wall...
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Re: playground shadows

Post by BlueBag on 02.05.16 17:19

@maff2016 wrote:With all due respect the forum member tried to present evidence that I am wrong about the golf comparison and that the Sun casts shadows in different directions. I know from my astronomy days that this is not true and that all shadows cast on Earth are indeed parallel. This has nothing to do with photography at all, it is just a well known fact about the Sun and the Earth. If you want me to agree with the member then that would be just ludicrous when the truth of the matter is different.
It's not just me is it?

Someone tell me it's not just me...

There are none so blind..
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