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***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 13.05.16 3:53

The "praying Arab" gesture by the Mcs has always troubled me as well.  It is a Masonic gesture and I have noticed several others by Gerry as well.  But do I think they are being protected by Freemasons? No.  Although I'm quite sure that Gerry hoped that they would be.
The reason I say this is because I come from a family with a very strong tradition of Freemasonry and I cannot think of one man, in either my father's or brother's lodges, who would assist in covering up the death of a child, even if it were accidental. 
A Masonic "coverup" would just involve too many people to be practical.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by pennylane on 13.05.16 11:40

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@pennylane wrote:I too believe COMARE / EDF energy are high on the list as to a potential reason for the protection.  It's also interesting to note that Gerry McCann quietly disappeared off the COMARE subcommittee soon after the disappearance!
@ pennylane & @ Estelle

For those thinking that the COMARE connection might be the answer to the riddle, there is of course a very interesting connection to the nuclear energy industry via leading Lancashire Freemason, Edward Smethurst, the McCanns' co-ordinating lawyer from the beginning (and Director of Madeleine's Fund).

Smethurst's first real job, back in the 1990s, was as a junior lawyer in the Legal Department of British Nuclear Fuels (BNFL). He was appointed to that job by Alvin Shuttleworth, an even more senior fellow Freemason in the East Lancashire Provincial Lodge.

Shuttleworth was the Head of BNFL's Legal Department at the time. The two men became engaged in a very successful campaign to deny compensation to many families, especially those with young children, who claimed to have developed leukaemia due to living so long close to the Sellafield nuclear reactor in Cumbria.

But if anything, that points not so much to COMARE and nuclear energy but to the possible role of senior Freemasons working on the Madeleine McCann case. The McCanns' bizarre action, lying prostrate before the GNR police when they arrived at the Ocean Club, was a copybook repetition of an ancient Masonic symbol of severe distress - a direct appeal to any Masonic police in the Portuguese police.

Then again the McCanns' friendship with the pervert Ray Wyre might suggest other influences.

But then we have strayed offtopic  more than a bit            

 

r
Thank you Tony, that's most interesting how Smethurst and Shuttleworth were involved in preventing families from receiving compensation for childhood cancers near Sellafield nuclear reactor.  It's been proven time and time again in studies around the world that there is indeed a link! Which brings us very neatly to those 'experts' at COMARE insisting that the percentage of children developing cancers living near a nuclear reactor is statistically within the norm for the general populace.

Then there's Clarence Mitchell once Head of Media Monitoring for the govt, and Andrew Brown (Gordon's baby bro) the Media Director/Strategist for EDF energy, and at the forefront for EDF's expansion in Britain.   Cozy or what!
Apologies for going temporarily off topic. hello

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by aquila on 13.05.16 11:46

I don't think you're drifting too far off topic here Pennylane.

There were, after all, favours called in weren't there?
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by pennylane on 13.05.16 11:48

Thank you aquila.  Yes we know for a fact there were favours called in!

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by sharonl on 13.05.16 21:01

Update on Tony's letter

Tony is unable to access the internet at the moment but he has just sent me a message which he has asked me to share with you.

He has received, from David Cameron, a holding reply dated 6th May 2016, which ends with "your correspondence is being considered".

Tony expects a more detailed reply in due course.

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by plebgate on 13.05.16 23:54

Thanks for update sharon.   Will look forward to hearing more soon.  I hope.

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by MayMuse on 14.05.16 0:09

Thank you that sounds promising thumbsup

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by Verdi on 14.05.16 1:07

@MayMuse wrote:Thank you that sounds promising thumbsup
What - No. 10 Downing Street promising?  That'll be the day. 

I am however very interested to see how they worm their way out of a very tricky situation.

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by Verdi on 14.05.16 1:12

@BarryTheHatchet wrote:The "praying Arab" gesture by the Mcs has always troubled me as well.  It is a Masonic gesture and I have noticed several others by Gerry as well.  But do I think they are being protected by Freemasons? No.  Although I'm quite sure that Gerry hoped that they would be.
The reason I say this is because I come from a family with a very strong tradition of Freemasonry and I cannot think of one man, in either my father's or brother's lodges, who would assist in covering up the death of a child, even if it were accidental. 
A Masonic "coverup" would just involve too many people to be practical.
Or it could just be affectation?

In what way is it a masonic gesture?  Not being au-fait with such matters I'm interested to learn in addition to the several other gestures you have noticed by Gerry.

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by MayMuse on 14.05.16 1:32

Apparently the "praying arab" is a distress signal; TB mentioned I think on another thread? I do not know of any others however I am pretty sure there are many, like handshakes etc. You can google "Masonic signs" or "Freemason gestures" and it will come up with information.

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 14.05.16 1:51

It is the hailing sign of a Mason in distress, according to my brother who is an Almoner in his lodge. 

There is a picture of Gerry standing under a banner of some sort, looking very defiant and pugilistic, with this hand down and the fingers clenched, that is one of the signs of an Entered Apprentice (not a Master Mason).  Another one was the picture of Kate under a tree, with her hand clenching her own throat as though she is suffering from heartburn.  Another sign of an entered apprentice.

And there are always the diagrams of the "wider agenda" on his Powerpoint.  Square and compass.

As I am not a Mason myself then I am just going by what my brother (literal, not Masonic!) has pointed out.  He did point out some more but I cannot remember them offhand.  I can put them up when I remember or come across the pictures, if you are really that interested. 

My brother's impression was that if Gerry is really a Mason, he hadn't been one for very long or he wouldn't have been quite so enthusiastic about doing these displays and drawing secret symbols on Powerpoints.  Far too flambouyant and keen to impress. And shouldn't have been sharing his newly learned knowledge with his wife.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by Bishop Brennan on 14.05.16 7:29

Both GM and KM claim be devout Catholics.  As such, there is no chance that they are Masons.  The Church explicitly forbids it, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a Declaration on this very subject in 1983.

"The Declaration asserts clearly that “the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."

http://catholicexchange.com/can-catholics-become-freemasons

Any 'masonic' gestures or displays are either coincidental, done for effect or to simulate an emotion that is not truly being felt.   IMO the whole Mason angle is a giant red herring (consumable by preference on a Friday).
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by BlueBag on 14.05.16 7:43

"Not allowed to be a mason" is right up there with "not allowed to be use contraceptives".

Catholics do what they please these days.

Most Catholics cherry-pick.

The Catholic Church isn't what it used to be.

As Pope Francis recently said "who am I to judge".... well except when someone does something he doesn't like (which is most likely something traditional).
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 14.05.16 7:44

"Devout Catholics" wouldn't use IVF, or hire an Anglican Church to hold a mass.  The "Devout Catholic" angle is a much bigger red herring, imo.
Gerry is very good at making a little connection go a long way.  He's appealing to Catholics with the rosary beads and (tatty) prayer cards, he's appealing to the Freemasons with his clumsy Masonic displays and he's appealing to Celtic fans with his corporate colours.  It's all rubbish imo.  He's making the most of his marketing ploys. 
An early attempt was appealing to mothers of toddlers who all wanted a matching cuddlecat.  I wonder if Saint Clarence told him that it wasn't appropriate.  Much like the proposed pictures of Kate by the pool, in a bikini.  Appealing to the readers of lads' mags, presumably.

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by BlueBag on 14.05.16 7:54

@BarryTheHatchet wrote:"Devout Catholics" wouldn't use IVF, or hire an Anglican Church to hold a mass.

The wishy-washy Catholics of today would because they no longer know Church history or their beliefs. 

They are not taught anything of this from the pulpit.

Anything goes.

In 1928 Catholics were banned by the Pope - in an encyclical called "Mortalium Animos" - from attending any religious service except a Catholic one right up to the 1970s when Catholics were suddenly supposed to forget that a POPE had infallibly decreed it.

The McCanns have not done anything particularly "non-Catholic" by the standards of Catholic church-goers.

"Devout" these days means they go to Church... if they feel like it.

I speak as an ex-Catholic who once took it all seriously until I read enough Church history and realised it was a shell game.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 14.05.16 8:20

@BarryTheHatchet wrote:It is the hailing sign of a Mason in distress, according to my brother who is an Almoner in his lodge. 

There is a picture of Gerry standing under a banner of some sort, looking very defiant and pugilistic, with this hand down and the fingers clenched, that is one of the signs of an Entered Apprentice (not a Master Mason).  Another one was the picture of Kate under a tree, with her hand clenching her own throat as though she is suffering from heartburn.  Another sign of an entered apprentice.

And there are always the diagrams of the "wider agenda" on his Powerpoint.  Square and compass.

As I am not a Mason myself then I am just going by what my brother (literal, not Masonic!) has pointed out.  He did point out some more but I cannot remember them offhand.  I can put them up when I remember or come across the pictures, if you are really that interested. 

My brother's impression was that if Gerry is really a Mason, he hadn't been one for very long or he wouldn't have been quite so enthusiastic about doing these displays and drawing secret symbols on Powerpoints.  Far too flambouyant and keen to impress. And shouldn't have been sharing his newly learned knowledge with his wife.
Yes, you could start a new topic about that in the Debate Section https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/f31-debate-section-for-purporting-theories

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 14.05.16 8:24

@Bishop Brennan wrote:Both GM and KM claim be devout Catholics.  As such, there is no chance that they are Masons.  The Church explicitly forbids it, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a Declaration on this very subject in 1983.

"The Declaration asserts clearly that “the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."

http://catholicexchange.com/can-catholics-become-freemasons

Any 'masonic' gestures or displays are either coincidental, done for effect or to simulate an emotion that is not truly being felt.   IMO the whole Mason angle is a giant red herring (consumable by preference on a Friday).
And then Kate's own mother rubbished that claim by saying "They're not the most devout family"

http://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/maddie-case-first-interview-to-kates.html

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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by BarryTheHatchet on 14.05.16 8:36

I think it maybe started because lots of papers described them as "devout Catholics" in the earliest days.
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Re: ***NEW - Reply received from Mike Penning M.P., Home Office, 6 Jun 2016*** (was: Reasons why the public need a report on Operation Grange: The letter handed in to Prime Minister, David Cameron, on 29 April 2016 in support of the petition

Post by pennylane on 14.05.16 9:08

Ladyinred wrote:Where have the McCanns ever claimed that they are devout Catholics?

It's a forum myth, IMO.

offtopic

They did use the 'devout' card imo.  Remember the saintly picture of Kate and the headline.

"Devout Catholic Kate McCann had her faith rocked by her daughters disappearance"

That article in The Standard was one whereby she was interviewed personally and plugged her book.

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