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Important information from Joe Rider

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 25.04.16 21:44

The poster said up thread that he had sent evidence to a trusted member of the forum. 

Why wont he post it to all of us now that he has said that he has shown at least one other poster.

The poster referred to has not confirmed that they have seen any evidence.

I am very wary.  Whilst I agree that photos of children and their private details should not be posted, I think this poster should have at least PM'd GEG before starting this thread. 

So a trusted member was shown this evidence but not the owner of the site?  hhmmmm.

I still do not like the way the poster brought the police and being monitored into it.

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 25.04.16 23:23

@plebgate wrote:The poster said up thread that he had sent evidence to a trusted member of the forum. 

Why wont he post it to all of us now that he has said that he has shown at least one other poster.
The poster referred to has not confirmed that they have seen any evidence.

I am very wary.  Whilst I agree that photos of children and their private details should not be posted, I think this poster should have at least PM'd GEG before starting this thread.

So a trusted member was shown this evidence but not the owner of the site?  hhmmmm.

I still do not like the way the poster brought the police and being monitored into it.
I think the actual words used were "a prominent member".   My first thought was - who/what is this prominent member that hasn't come forward and confirmed receipt of said information and why did the member elect to post the wording of the alleged email exchange but send a screen shot to a prominent member.

I agree, if the police are involved and the situation is being monitored, it should not be brought to a public forum.  This is not the first time this new member has raised an issue on the forum without a scrap of evidence to substantiate whatever the claim - as I've previously suggested, if the member is actively working on a particular issue in the real world, why not wait until there is something worthwhile to report rather than making seemingly spurious claims without foundation.

This is more cryptic than The Times crossword.

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.04.16 23:59

@Verdi wrote:
I think the actual words used were "a prominent member".   My first thought was - who/what is this prominent member that hasn't come forward and confirmed receipt of said information and why did the member elect to post the wording of the alleged email exchange but send a screen shot to a prominent member...

This is more cryptic than The Times crossword.
@ Verdi and @ plebgate and @ whodunit

I will try and make everything as clear as possible.

On Saturday I e-mailed Ben Salmon and asked him a simple and limited question: what were the dates of his run of e-mails with the Riders?

He replied (later on Saturday) giving me more than I asked for; he sent me actual screenshots of the emails, with just Joe Rider's e-mail address erased.

I was completely off-line the whole of Sunday and have only just caught up with those messages about 'a prominent member' being sent screenshots.

These e-mails were sent to me in an unfamiliar format which I have not been able to save. However, I did manage to print them off from the screen and have scanned them tonight.

Here they are - he has withheld the contents of Sarah Fox's initial e-mail to him on 8 March because he told me he did not have her specific authorisation to disclose it:




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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 26.04.16 0:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
I think the actual words used were "a prominent member".   My first thought was - who/what is this prominent member that hasn't come forward and confirmed receipt of said information and why did the member elect to post the wording of the alleged email exchange but send a screen shot to a prominent member...

This is more cryptic than The Times crossword.
@ Verdi and @ plebgate and @ whodunit

I will try and make everything as clear as possible.

On Saturday I e-mailed Ben Salmon and asked him a simple and limited question: what were the dates of his run of e-mails with the Riders?

He replied (later on Saturday) giving me more than I asked for; he sent me actual screenshots of the emails, with just Joe Rider's e-mail address erased.

I was completely off-line the whole of Sunday and have only just caught up with those messages about 'a prominent member' being sent screenshots.

These e-mails were sent to me in an unfamiliar format which I have not been able to save. However, I did manage to print them off from the screen and have scanned them tonight.

Here they are - he has withheld the contents of Sarah Fox's initial e-mail to him on 8 March because he told me he did not have her specific authorisation to disclose it:



Thanks for clarifying but beware !

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Estelle on 26.04.16 2:21

Where is the email that he sent asking them the questions together with their reply?
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 26.04.16 6:47

@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Verdi wrote:
I think the actual words used were "a prominent member".   My first thought was - who/what is this prominent member that hasn't come forward and confirmed receipt of said information and why did the member elect to post the wording of the alleged email exchange but send a screen shot to a prominent member...

This is more cryptic than The Times crossword.
@ Verdi and @ plebgate and @ whodunit

I will try and make everything as clear as possible.

On Saturday I e-mailed Ben Salmon and asked him a simple and limited question: what were the dates of his run of e-mails with the Riders?

He replied (later on Saturday) giving me more than I asked for; he sent me actual screenshots of the emails, with just Joe Rider's e-mail address erased.

I was completely off-line the whole of Sunday and have only just caught up with those messages about 'a prominent member' being sent screenshots.

These e-mails were sent to me in an unfamiliar format which I have not been able to save. However, I did manage to print them off from the screen and have scanned them tonight.

Here they are - he has withheld the contents of Sarah Fox's initial e-mail to him on 8 March because he told me he did not have her specific authorisation to disclose it:



Thanks for clarifying but beware !
+1.

So the intention was to end the discussion - which to my mind could easily have been done by contacting GEG without the need for perhaps putting posters off by bringing the police and monitoring of the site into the public domain.

Lots of activity on the board since Rocky A's win and lots of members of the public finding Gill's site.   Let's hope that posters are not put off and as Estelle has posted, let's see everything not bits and pieces of correspondence.

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.04.16 7:45

@Estelle wrote:Where is the email that he sent asking them the questions together with their reply?
Do you mean 'Where are the screenshots of the email that he sent asking them the questions together with their reply?'

They are here, on this second print-out:


 


What Ben Salmon has done is to send me screenshots of basically the headers to each of the emails, in sequence, and bundled them all up into one document - a picture on my screen - which he sent me on Saturday. He disclosed the full content of the emails of 22 April in the OP here.

The main activity took place on Friday 22 April, three days after the news about Goncalo Amaral's success in Lisbon.

The times of these e-mails were:

Rider to Salmon, 12.04pm
Salmon to Rider: 1.35pm
Rider to Salmon: 4.27pm
Salmon to Rider: 5.01pm.

There are questions by members about Ben Salmons' motivation and his methods. I will leave him to answer those questions.

What we are faced with, however,  is a number of e-mails from the Riders, which purport to be genuine - and I believe are genuine - in which Mr Rider himself states the following:         

"The content in [CMOMM] relating to our family is ridiculous and highly inflammatory...we have no connection with this case".

As I wrote before, if anyone here has had children and found out that their child and her school etc. was being openly discussed on the internet, wiht her photograph, suggesting that her parents knowingly connived in pretending that their daughter was really another Madeleine who had just been killed, they would surely be hugely concerned about it. 

I tried to find the 'Naylor, R*der' thread last night and couldn't find it, so I assume the forum-owner has removed it and, if that is the case, I applaud her for doing so.

It had been assumed by some that Dewi Lennard/kikoraton had a reasonable factual basis for making such a serious allegation. It seems now that he has not.

As to the allegations that a substitute Madeleine was used, but not MR, it has been suggested that Ben Salmon is attempting to 'close the debate' on this issue.           

However, I cannot personally see what good it is discussing kikoraton's theory unless he can credibly suggest the identity of an actual child who was put forward by her parent to deliberately pretend to be the recently-killed Madeleine McCann.    

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 26.04.16 8:06

Tony I do not disagree with your last post, but my point is it (to my mind) should have been done  by PM to Jill.

As you say posters are suspicious of the timing - 3 days after Rocky's win and another poster upthread did ask why he hasn't contact Kiko about the matter if he was so concerned.

No more from me on the matter as can't make my thoughts any clearer.

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.04.16 9:19

@plebgate wrote:Tony I do not disagree with your last post, but my point is it (to my mind) should have been done by PM to Jill.

As you say posters are suspicious of the timing - 3 days after Rocky's win and another poster upthread did ask why he hasn't contact Kiko about the matter if he was so concerned.

No more from me on the matter as can't make my thoughts any clearer.
I think - I am open to correction - that the reason why Ben Salmon wrote to the Riders on 22 April was because someone had just re-posted on the 'Naylor, R*der' thread here, after quite a long interval of no posts. I could be wrong about that.

If you look at the run of e-mails, Ben Salmon wrote to Sarah Rider on 8 March, and she replied the same day. Then, apparently, there was nothing for over 6 weeks until 22 April.

As a matter of interest, Ben Salmon posted up his 'Misdirection' YouTube video explaining his about-turn on the Madeleine McCann case on IIRC 23 March.   

You wrote:  "but my point is it (to my mind) should have been done by PM to Jill".

I trend to agree with your point. However, as I said just now: "There are questions by members about Ben Salmon's motivation and his methods. I will leave him to answer those questions".

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by aquila on 26.04.16 11:11

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Tony I do not disagree with your last post, but my point is it (to my mind) should have been done by PM to Jill.

As you say posters are suspicious of the timing - 3 days after Rocky's win and another poster upthread did ask why he hasn't contact Kiko about the matter if he was so concerned.

No more from me on the matter as can't make my thoughts any clearer.
I think - I am open to correction - that the reason why Ben Salmon wrote to the Riders on 22 April was because someone had just re-posted on the 'Naylor, R*der' thread here, after quite a long interval of no posts. I could be wrong about that.

If you look at the run of e-mails, Ben Salmon wrote to Sarah Rider on 8 March, and she replied the same day. Then, apparently, there was nothing for over 6 weeks until 22 April.

As a matter of interest, Ben Salmon posted up his 'Misdirection' YouTube video explaining his about-turn on the Madeleine McCann case on IIRC 23 March.   

You wrote:  "but my point is it (to my mind) should have been done by PM to Jill".

I trend to agree with your point. However, as I said just now: "There are questions by members about Ben Salmon's motivation and his methods. I will leave him to answer those questions".
Tony, you're 'open to correction' and there's no evidence of Ben Salmon's emails to Sarah Rider - otherwise they would be published in full with email address redacted.

I watched the video and for the purpose of the forum and not to discredit Ben Salmon, whoever he is, and to confirm I don't do Twitter, Facebook etc, I can't see any reasonable credibility to this person's You Tube video.

Now beat me with a broom but I did notice it's a tattooed bloke wearing a football tee shirt sitting in front of a load of computer equipment with a script - a bit like old Spivey.
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by April28th on 26.04.16 12:45

@aquila wrote:Tony, you're 'open to correction' and there's no evidence of Ben Salmon's emails to Sarah Rider - otherwise they would be published in full with email address redacted.

I watched the video and for the purpose of the forum and not to discredit Ben Salmon, whoever he is, and to confirm I don't do Twitter, Facebook etc, I can't see any reasonable credibility to this person's You Tube video.

Now beat me with a broom but I did notice it's a tattooed bloke wearing a football tee shirt sitting in front of a load of computer equipment with a script - a bit like old Spivey.

I'm not sure I see a point/argument there, just an ad hominem. At any rate - if you look further up you can see in Tony's print out that Sarah's email address is clearly visible. I had elected not to put it out there in my redacted screenshot, but in my private correspondence with Tony I was happy to. As I said on literally the first page here, her address is freely available online through her business. You can see the entirety of my initial message to her, and I only redacted her email (which was literally one line) because I didn't ask for permission to share it, nor do I see the merit in disturbing them further just to show one line.

Tony has put across my intentions with regards presenting these emails better than I had it seems.I posted the 'questions' in this thread already. I had intended not to post again in this thread, since it seems the main issue (that being the privacy/safety of the family) has been acknowledged and people with much more influence than I share empathy for their situation. I am just the messenger here, and as I stated already, I simply wanted to help the family.

If you want to know anything else then please pm me, and you're welcome to screen shot my pms and disseminate to your heart's content. This thread has served its purpose.

ETA - I agree that showing this to Jill privately first would've been a better course of action. This has been a learning experience for me in that sense.
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 26.04.16 13:02

@aquilla wrote:  I watched the video and for the purpose of the forum and not to discredit Ben Salmon, whoever he is, and to confirm I don't do Twitter, Facebook etc, I can't see any reasonable credibility to this person's You Tube video.

Quite so!  Why the need to produce a selfie (oh how I detest that word) video in the first place, why not join a forum to vent your spleen?  Others have done this before and been severely criticised for so doing.

ETA:  Spivey by name spivey by nature!

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by aquila on 26.04.16 13:03

@April28th wrote:
@aquila wrote:Tony, you're 'open to correction' and there's no evidence of Ben Salmon's emails to Sarah Rider - otherwise they would be published in full with email address redacted.

I watched the video and for the purpose of the forum and not to discredit Ben Salmon, whoever he is, and to confirm I don't do Twitter, Facebook etc, I can't see any reasonable credibility to this person's You Tube video.

Now beat me with a broom but I did notice it's a tattooed bloke wearing a football tee shirt sitting in front of a load of computer equipment with a script - a bit like old Spivey.


 This thread has served its purpose.
I agree with you. I think it has.
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by sami on 26.04.16 13:09

@aquila wrote:
@April28th wrote:
 This thread has served its purpose.
I agree with you. I think it has.


Quite.

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by MayMuse on 26.04.16 13:16

I found this thread interesting as I do most posts here as the information is outstanding and many are eye-openers. I don't know enough to comment on this particular 'aspect' but did pop over to watch the 'misdirection' video. What amazes me is these brave people who put their 'necks' out there to offer either their opinion or valid researched points (some perhaps which may not have been considered before) seem to come under 'fire'. 

Tattooed, jeans, rough and ready or a suave Saville row, plum speaking 'suit' does not make the man!
Neither does it hold weight for 'honesty' as we have seen with the Drs McCann!?! 

Actions speak louder than words.

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Estelle on 26.04.16 18:51

Do you think that Richard D Hall's theory on the creche records in that CB lied about the week, allowed Gerry and Kate to sign Madeleine in (even though Maddie was not there and she had only six children) and people confused Ella with Maddie is a better explanation than what Dewi Lennard's explanation about Gerry forging RN's signature to sign EN in and having a substitute child preferably also called Madalene (making a total of seven which is the correct number in the creche)?

IMO both have their problems as Richard D Hall's theory requires the McCanns to actually disclose to CB that Maddie is dead, surely? That is a huge risk even if you know the person beforehand or have to bribe them to keep quiet. What would they have said to her? Did they have a prior arrangement with her? 

On the other hand, Gerry has to rely on a stranger's child to keep going to the creche and take the risk of forging his signature on the creche records and thus perverting justice. Surely, RN would have to be bribed to do this. JR has done nothing wrong but the exposure of her name, school and photo is the problem but i guess he has had to do that to try to prove his point. RN knows all about it as Dewi has spoken to RN on the phone and if JR was actually there but denying it to a complete stranger, surely had would have had to be bribed to keep quiet too. Also what happened when Kate signed RN in?  Did she have to forge RN's signature too? Surely, Gerry would have had to have a prior arrangement with RN too., 

I watched the whole four hours of Richard D Hall's videos today for the first time and I was impressed.  IMO Maddie died on the evening of April 29.

Has Richard D Hall written to Amaral and the PJ about his videos?
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by j.rob on 27.04.16 21:29

"The content in [CMOMM] relating to our family is ridiculous and highly inflammatory...we have no connection with this case".
------

Interesting choice of words - 'inflammatory'. Not 'libellous', then.

If the claims are 'ridiculous' and they have no connection to the case, then why not take legal action and have the offending material removed from the internet? 

A 'no comment' or 'this is in the hands of our lawyers' would have been far more convincing, imo.

[Edited by a Mod]

Robert Naylor is hardly likely to admit to having something to do with the case, is he?

[Edited by a Mod]

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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Estelle on 28.04.16 2:18

Deleted by a Mod.

The comprehensive denial by Joe and Sarah Rider that they were involved in any way in a theory, put forward on Twitter, that they were part of a plot to provide a substitute for Madeleine McCann, plus their expressed concern over their child's name and photograph being dragged into this case, means that we should end all speculation about this family on CMOMM, unless and until anyone has any evidence whatsoever that they were involved.

Remember also that all sorts of people look into this forum and watch how we react when we receive a reasonable request to respect privacy

- Mod
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Guest on 07.05.16 9:24

@April28th wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Have you contacted Dewi Lennard?

I haven't actually. I was under the impression he is a member here and will see it? I'll tweet him now just in case. Thanks.
Did Dewi Lennard reply to your tweet?
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Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by April28th on 07.05.16 10:15

Ladyinred wrote:
@April28th wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Have you contacted Dewi Lennard?

I haven't actually. I was under the impression he is a member here and will see it? I'll tweet him now just in case. Thanks.
Did Dewi Lennard reply to your tweet?

He did not.
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