The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

Please note that when you register your username must be different from your email address!

Important information from Joe Rider

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by sami on 24.04.16 21:40

@aiyoyo -  I am not suggesting certain topics should not be openly discussed. I am suggesting if child safety is a worry to the poster then do not start a topic relating to the child on a public forum.  Discuss it privately with those who are well documented to have done extensive research on this very topic.

Otherwise publish, discuss and talk to your hearts content - but also be willing to allow a discussion come to its natural end.

In this thread we are presented with new material, then it is suggested this new material is sufficient for the topic to be crossed off the list for any future discussion, all within the first few pages.

Something is not right with this, just my opinion.

sami

Posts : 965
Reputation : 53
Join date : 2012-04-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by aiyoyo on 24.04.16 21:55

@sami wrote:@aiyoyo -  I am not suggesting certain topics should not be openly discussed. I am suggesting if child safety is a worry to the poster then do not start a topic relating to the child on a public forum.  Discuss it privately with those who are well documented to have done extensive research on this very topic.

Otherwise publish, discuss and talk to your hearts content - but also be willing to allow a discussion come to its natural end.

In this thread we are presented with new material, then it is suggested this new material is sufficient for the topic to be crossed off the list for any future discussion, all within the first few pages.

Something is not right with this, just my opinion.

Sami, I have hugh respect for researchers and their works.
They put in loads of effort into their work, their never give up stocism is admirable.
But we know that be it people are comfortable with the theory or not, they may not voice it, they see it as researchers exploring theories and that's what people do to try to get to the bottom of the mystery or the truth.

No one should say what discussion should be crossed off or what topic stay.
I didn't see poster in question saying discussion on said topic should be crossed off, nor can he enforce it.
Inevitably the consequence of a clarification is often the dying out of the topic.
But if people still prefer to believe in it and discuss it there's nothing to stop them.
So in that sense saying poster that voiced concern is trying to shut down the topic isn't quite just since people still have free choice to discuss it at will, it's up to them.
avatar
aiyoyo

Posts : 9610
Reputation : 321
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 24.04.16 22:02

I think posters would be put off discussing any post where it is mentioned that a headmistress and the police know about a discussion and that certain discussions are being monitored.

I tend to agree that the way the OP is worded seems to want to close discussion of subject entirely.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by aiyoyo on 24.04.16 22:13


And how can any poster have the power to close discussion of subject when it's not up to him/her to control people's free thoughts and free will?

People can continue to discuss to their hearts content and how do you see poster being able to stop that? It can become confrontational discussion/debate at best or at worst.

avatar
aiyoyo

Posts : 9610
Reputation : 321
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by April28th on 24.04.16 22:21

If clarification on this will help, here it is.

I hope(d) that in presenting Joe's words, people would take notice of them (tautology alert). That's the primary hope. Secondly, I definitely expressed strongly that I hope the bizarre and unsubstantiated theories would end. 

However there's a difference between hope and expectation. And i am not that naive that I think one post will solve everything. But in presenting Joe's words here people have the chance to hear from him, which for whatever reason, noone including -presumably- the proponent of this theory did. 

Do I have a problem with kiko? No. Do I denigrate his other work, including the creche sheets analysis? No. It's not about poking him in the eye. He is a researcher. Just like science you don't move forward if you blind yourself to information that doesn't support your assumed conclusions. We are both working toward the same goal ultimately. 

I'm still waiting for a salient piece of evidence to support the MR part of this theory..
avatar
April28th

Posts : 335
Reputation : 248
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile https://h42a.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 24.04.16 22:21

They do not have the power, but throw in the mention of police and pretty soon posters will stop posting or it can lead to arguments among posters and many others will stay away from the topic.

Response to aiyoyos last post btw.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by April28th on 24.04.16 22:24

Nobody with any true belief in their words is going to 'stop posting' on the basis that they might get told off for telling the truth. If people have such little conviction in their beliefs why worry about their sensibilities in the first place?
avatar
April28th

Posts : 335
Reputation : 248
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile https://h42a.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 24.04.16 22:26

@April28th wrote:Nobody with any true belief in their words is going to 'stop posting' on the basis that they might get told off for telling the truth. If people have such little conviction in their beliefs why worry about their sensibilities in the first place?
What ?   The way your OP was worded it is not about being told off but about possibly being contacted by the police and about being further monitored.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by April28th on 24.04.16 22:28

Nobody was contacted to my knowledge about the existing thread. So I would hardly construe it as a threat. The Police Contact was CCed into the emails in case I personally was dangerous. 

Pretty sure noone is planning death threats so nothing to fear in posting?
avatar
April28th

Posts : 335
Reputation : 248
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile https://h42a.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by aiyoyo on 24.04.16 22:29

@plebgate wrote:They do not have the power, but throw in the mention of police and pretty soon posters will stop posting or it can lead to arguments among posters and many others will stay away from the topic.

Response to aiyoyos last post btw.

That's only your take and your presumption, not accurate reflection of state of things.

But continuing in that vein isn't constructive.
avatar
aiyoyo

Posts : 9610
Reputation : 321
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 24.04.16 22:34

Of course it's my opinion.  I am allowed to post my opinion the same of you posted yours.  I happen to think that your opinion is not an accurate assessment.

@aiyoyo

I think my point about posters keeping away from topics which tend to turn to arguments has been proven. titter

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by MaryB on 24.04.16 22:34

None of this stuff is constructive.  It's derailing.  That's my opinion.
avatar
MaryB

Posts : 204
Reputation : 45
Join date : 2009-11-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 24.04.16 22:36

@MaryB wrote:None of this stuff is constructive.  It's derailing.  That's my opinion.
Exactly, which you stated a way back.  thumbsup

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by April28th on 24.04.16 22:37

@MaryB wrote:None of this stuff is constructive.  It's derailing.  That's my opinion.

And you're entirely correct. I'm going to check out of this thread, I have presented Joe Rider's words, and the fractious debating is going nowhere useful. Have at it.
avatar
April28th

Posts : 335
Reputation : 248
Join date : 2015-07-22

View user profile https://h42a.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by j.rob on 24.04.16 22:38

@JohnyT wrote:....ahhhh the irony.........trying to help a family out but then calling the title "Important information from Joe Rider"............
JohnyT


Are feathers flying in all directions with this latest dramatic twist in the saga?

I think so. notme

shark

j.rob

Posts : 2243
Reputation : 233
Join date : 2014-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by j.rob on 24.04.16 22:39

@April28th wrote:
@MaryB wrote:None of this stuff is constructive.  It's derailing.  That's my opinion.

And you're entirely correct. I'm going to check out of this thread, I have presented Joe Rider's words, and the fractious debating is going nowhere useful. Have at it.


spin

Interesting....

j.rob

Posts : 2243
Reputation : 233
Join date : 2014-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 24.04.16 23:53

@MaryB wrote:I'd not heard of this person till you posted about it on this thread.  So much for protecting privacy.  Sorry but it's nonsense. .
It's call posturing -  why else mention it?   Anything dynamic on twitter or facebook or any other social networking medium is reported here tout-suite if considered of interest.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 6780
Reputation : 3582
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 24.04.16 23:56

@April28th wrote:
@MaryB wrote:None of this stuff is constructive.  It's derailing.  That's my opinion.

And you're entirely correct. I'm going to check out of this thread, I have presented Joe Rider's words, and the fractious debating is going nowhere useful. Have at it.
@April28th

Whilst you're around, would you be so kind as to up-date me on a small outstanding issue..

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t12362p275-new-film-by-richard-d-hall-when-madeleine-died#335911

....bottom of page 12.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 6780
Reputation : 3582
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.04.16 10:43

@April28th wrote:If clarification on this will help, here it is.

I hope(d) that in presenting Joe's words, people would take notice of them (tautology alert). That's the primary hope. Secondly, I definitely expressed strongly that I hope the bizarre and unsubstantiated theories would end. 

However there's a difference between hope and expectation. And I am not that naive that I think one post will solve everything. But in presenting Joe's words here people have the chance to hear from him, which for whatever reason, noone including -presumably- the proponent of this theory did. 

Do I have a problem with kiko? No. Do I denigrate his other work, including the creche sheets analysis? No. It's not about poking him in the eye. He is a researcher. Just like science you don't move forward if you blind yourself to information that doesn't support your assumed conclusions. We are both working toward the same goal ultimately. 

I'm still waiting for a salient piece of evidence to support the MR part of this theory...
@ April28th              Actually, so am I.

I have repeatedly - on this forum - challenged Dewi Lennard/santacoloma/kikoraton to produce credible evidence of his theory, first put forward 5 years go IIRC, but have never seen any.

April28th has put forward what purport to be genuine e-mails from Joe Rider.

Do we believe they are genuine? Or not?        

And if we believe they are genuine, do we then believe they are the truth? - or not?

Suppose for the moment that they are entirely truthful?

Then what are we doing on this forum publishing personal details and a family photograph of a family which has nothing whatsoever to do with the reported disappearance of Madeieine McCann and whose daughter, Madalene, now about 12 years old I think, faces being drawn into the Madeleine McCann story.

The thread we have about them here publicly accuses her of having been the substitute for Madeleine McCann - for several days - and thereby publicly accuses her of having been an (unwitting) party to one of the greatest hoaxes of all time.

It is possible, in truth, that April28th has done us all a favour here by writing to Sarah and Joe Rider and eliminating any suggestion that they knowingly participated in their daughter being part of what rapidly became an international scam. This is the accusation that Lennard has been promoting for the past 5 years or more.

I am simply posing some questions here. I favour allowing April28th being able to explain himself further. He has posted (about a month ago on YouTube) a 13-minute video explaining in clear terms his reasons for switching from being a McCann-believer to a McCann-doubter.

____________________

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" - Paul's first letter to his disciple Timothy,  1 Timothy 1 v 15

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 14727
Reputation : 2847
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 70
Location : Shropshire

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 25.04.16 15:38

@TonyBennett wrote:  He has posted (about a month ago on YouTube) a 13-minute video explaining in clear terms his reasons for switching from being a McCann-believer to a McCann-doubter.

Is that a recent conversion?  I'm always interested to learn what generates that 'road to Damascus' moment.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 6780
Reputation : 3582
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by plebgate on 25.04.16 16:58

Snipped from Tony's post:

"
I am simply posing some questions here. I favour allowing April28th being able to explain himself further. He has posted (about a month ago on YouTube) a 13-minute video explaining in clear terms his reasons for switching from being a McCann-believer to a McCann-doubter."


We have had a few "switchers"  visit the site and look how those turned out.

I am not saying that April28th is not a genuine poster, but I am wary of people posting about police and this site being monitored.    As someone suggested why not PM admin with their thoughts first.

I am also fed up with posters who stay away for a while then return and immediately they disagree with a poster start saying that only those who agree with the forum's view are welcome.

Utter, utter nonsense.   There are many threads with disagreements but debated politely without accusations flying around.  


If posters think they are being unfairly treated I wish they would take it by PM to admin.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.04.16 17:35

@plebgate wrote:Snipped from Tony's post:

"I am simply posing some questions here. I favour allowing April28th being able to explain himself further. He has posted (about a month ago on YouTube) a 13-minute video explaining in clear terms his reasons for switching from being a McCann-believer to a McCann-doubter."

We have had a few "switchers"  visit the site and look how those turned out.

I am not saying that April28th is not a genuine poster, but I am wary of people posting about police and this site being monitored.    As someone suggested why not PM admin with their thoughts first.

I am also fed up with posters who stay away for a while then return and immediately they disagree with a poster start saying that only those who agree with the forum's view are welcome.

Utter, utter nonsense.   There are many threads with disagreements but debated politely without accusations flying around.  


If posters think they are being unfairly treated I wish they would take it by PM to admin.

@ plebgate and Verdi

I am all for caution - indeed extreme caution - where new posters are concerned and then proceed make some of the comments that April28th has done.

However, very unusually for a new poster, he has 'outed' i.e. fully identified himself in this YouTube video. He is Ben Salmon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlDClikvqgM&feature=youtu.be

He can be evaluated - to some degree at least, by what he says on that video.

I have been trying to decide if we can take the correspondence he has posted with Mr Rider as genuine and at face value.

I tend to think that we can

____________________

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" - Paul's first letter to his disciple Timothy,  1 Timothy 1 v 15

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 14727
Reputation : 2847
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 70
Location : Shropshire

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by whodunit on 25.04.16 18:42

Again I must draw attention to the language April28th used in the emails. He clearly positioned himself as an advocate for the Riders in opposition to this forum, going so far as to make derogatory remarks about members. He literally offers himself to Mr. Rider as a messenger, a conduit, and provides the platform for Mr. Rider to deny the theories. This is not the same as 'seeking clarification'.

April28th then made it clear he expects us to take the denials at face value and 'table' this discussion altogether.

Caveat: I did not know the child's pic was posted on this forum. I do not agree with this practice. If Kikoratton has any solid evidence that, contrary to Rider's denial, this family and the Naylor's are closely connected, even related, I wish he would post it. I am willing to concede THIS child may not have been the sub but I am not willing to concede that discussions of the sub theory should be 'off the table'.
avatar
whodunit

Posts : 467
Reputation : 443
Join date : 2015-02-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.04.16 18:56

@whodunit wrote:Again I must draw attention to the language April28th used in the emails. He clearly positioned himself as an advocate for the Riders in opposition to this forum, going so far as to make derogatory remarks about members. He literally offers himself to Mr. Rider as a messenger, a conduit, and provides the platform for Mr. Rider to deny the theories. This is not the same as 'seeking clarification'.

April28th then made it clear he expects us to take the denials at face value and 'table' this discussion altogether.

Caveat: I did not know the child's pic was posted on this forum. I do not agree with this practice. If Kikoratton has any solid evidence that, contrary to Rider's denial, this family and the Naylor's are closely connected, even related, I wish he would post it. I am willing to concede THIS child may not have been the sub but I am not willing to concede that discussions of the sub theory should be 'off the table'.
@ whodunit

I've read your observations with care.

I cannot see any 'remarks about members' that could be considered 'derogatory'.

Yes, he did position himself as an 'advocate' for the Riders, but only because he objected to public discussion of the family, with photos, etc.     

What April28th/Ben Salmon wrote to Mr Rider was this:

"As I expressed in my previous email, I am very uncomfortable with the fact your daughter's photo was posted online in several places and her school mentioned, as to my mind that puts her at risk. It is highly irresponsible (old photo now or not)".

He is not being derogatory, except to say that he is firmly opposed to the publication of MR's photo, her family, and school - with which you agree. He also refers to these items having been posted 'online in several places' - so this is not merely an attack on CMOMM.

As for maintaining the 'Madeleine substitute' theory now that kikoraton's MR has effectively been ruled out, it still lacks any evidence to support it. 

At this stage, for me, April28th/Ben Salmon has the benefit of any doubt.  

____________________

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" - Paul's first letter to his disciple Timothy,  1 Timothy 1 v 15

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 14727
Reputation : 2847
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 70
Location : Shropshire

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Important information from Joe Rider

Post by Verdi on 25.04.16 21:00

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Snipped from Tony's post:

"I am simply posing some questions here. I favour allowing April28th being able to explain himself further. He has posted (about a month ago on YouTube) a 13-minute video explaining in clear terms his reasons for switching from being a McCann-believer to a McCann-doubter."

We have had a few "switchers"  visit the site and look how those turned out.

I am not saying that April28th is not a genuine poster, but I am wary of people posting about police and this site being monitored.    As someone suggested why not PM admin with their thoughts first.

I am also fed up with posters who stay away for a while then return and immediately they disagree with a poster start saying that only those who agree with the forum's view are welcome.

Utter, utter nonsense.   There are many threads with disagreements but debated politely without accusations flying around.  


If posters think they are being unfairly treated I wish they would take it by PM to admin.

@ plebgate and Verdi

I am all for caution - indeed extreme caution - where new posters are concerned and then proceed make some of the comments that April28th has done.

However, very unusually for a new poster, he has 'outed' i.e. fully identified himself in this YouTube video. He is Ben Salmon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlDClikvqgM&feature=youtu.be

He can be evaluated - to some degree at least, by what he says on that video.

I have been trying to decide if we can take the correspondence he has posted with Mr Rider as genuine and at face value.

I tend to think that we can
Sorry but somebody's got their hand up his back.  Only listened to half so far as the sound is abysmal and it's very noisy around here, that so far is nothing but a reiteration of the core discussion on this forum and the content of Richard D Hall's documentaries.

I still don't know when this person had his Damascus moment but it would appear to be connected with the release of Rich Planet videos which have focused on the same subjects as this new arrival champions.  At the beginning of April28th's video, he says that he has undertaken extensive research into the case whilst in support of the McCann faction - if that be the case, did it not occur to him that all the irregularities he now identifies with were part and parcel of the wider agenda?
 
In my opinion, it's those who have not researched the case that have been seriously deluded and fooled by main stream media - not those who have.  Who in their right mind could be fooled by everything connected to this case if they've taken time out to research?  This person is a poseur or he is being manipulated - either way I'm not convinced.  I will reserve further comment until something transpires to convince me otherwise.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 6780
Reputation : 3582
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum