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Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Tony Bennett on Mon 9 Nov 2015 - 23:30

@HiDeHo wrote:

But he is not contrasting his opinion with that of the investigation.

He is saying they are one and the same.

All that he's doing is saying: 'Look, this is not just my opinion, it's the opinion of the investigation team as a whole.

In fact he reinforces that in the final line you quote.

He doesn't say: 'They reached that conclusion with the date that they have'.

He very deliberately twice uses the word: 'we':

'We reached that conclusion with the data that we have'.

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Carrry On Doctor on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 7:23

Thank you Hideho, and thank you again Tony for your response.

Maybe its me, but I interpret that interview differently. GA seems to be expressing his views when he was part of the investigation and he now seems to stressing the distinction between the view held by the investigation team (then) then and his own opinion now.

Perhaps for a number of reasons GA cant elaborate further, but if true, I would consider this to be significant.

To-reiterate, I could be wide of the mark.
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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Tony Bennett on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 7:56

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Thank you Hideho, and thank you again Tony for your response.

Maybe its me, but I interpret that interview differently. GA seems to be expressing his views when he was part of the investigation and he now seems to stressing the distinction between the view held by the investigation team (then) then and his own opinion now.

Perhaps for a number of reasons GA can't elaborate further, but if true, I would consider this to be significant.

To-reiterate, I could be wide of the mark.
Goncalo Amaral has never made any statement suggesting that he in any way resiles from anything said in his book.

Thus he confirms, by not saying anything, that he sticks by ''Madeleine died by an accident on the evening of 3 May", a conclusion now being widely challenged e.g. by HideHo, Hobs and Richard Hall, to name three

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2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Carrry On Doctor on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 8:33

Thanks again Tony.

It appears to me that GA gave a measured response in the interview and is now agreeing with the terrific work of HideHo, Hobs, RH et al.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Sophiebubbles on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 8:53

It is my opinion that Goncalo Amaral cannot and will not at this present time deviate away from which he says in interviews and his book for obvious reasons......He has many aces up his sleeve as I have said before....a quote from him.

I wouldn't think he will discuss publicly what he NOW thinks of the investigation whilst he was in charge NOW BEING THE OPERATIVE WORD or more to the point what he has gleamed himself, from past colleagues, reading here and all highly relevant reasearched work and films. Back in the day he had neither the time nor perhaps the frame of mind to think straight or deeply given where he found himself in life and society (a huge emotional, personal trauma he had to face).

All these years on I am sure he has the support and input of his own 'team' of 'friends' who have worked on what he, Snr Amaral knows about the case which havn't reached anyones ears and his own theories or facts of the case, in present time.

He is the man who can close this case.........on WHAT HE KNEW THEN coupled with ......WHAT HE KNOWS NOW, like people here NOW KNOW there was such a good job of confusing EVERYONE back then. He was not aware of that ploy either back then, confused was where he was when thrown off the case.   The stumbling block is getting them to Court. 

I don't remain in the day of what Mr Amaral said or had to say.....all is legalities......he has to keep all close to his chest, which is why, we hear , quite rightly not very much, in fact nothing in recent times from him.

I am at a loss as why profiling Pat, cannot see beyond what WAS purported, I did think she was quite close to Mr Amaral, maybe she is protecting him! cannot understand her writing at moment the way I used to.

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Joss on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 8:53

I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case. They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would of had. I think there is still other evidence to date the public are not aware of, so how can anyone really come to any firm conclusion on what happened to Madeleine if there is not a complete picture of all the information? It would be like trying to put together a puzzle with some of the pieces missing wouldn't it?

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Guest on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 8:59

@Joss wrote:I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case. They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would of had. ...
Authority yes.  Understanding no.
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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Joss on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 9:17

Elça Craig wrote:
@Joss wrote:I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case. They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would of had. ...
Authority yes.  Understanding no.
Not sure what you are saying with the No understanding part?

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Adding pieces to the jigsaw puzzle

Post by Tony Bennett on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 9:22

@Joss wrote:I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened, seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case.

REPLY: Agreed. The interim report of Tavares de Almeida, dated 10 September 2007, makes this abundantly clear.

They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would have had.

REPLY: Here, with respect, I fundamentally disagree with you. It's clear that Amaral's book, and the interim report of Tavares de Almeida, were based on all the thousands of pages of witnesses statements, expert opinions, forensic and other evidence, the vast majority of which was released by the Portuguese authorities in August 2008. Thus the general public looking at the case had available to them an 'open book' showing what the basis was for Tavares de Almeida's report and for the conclusions in Amaral's book     

I think there is still other evidence to date the public are not aware of, so how can anyone really come to any firm conclusion on what happened to Madeleine if there is not a complete picture of all the information? It would be like trying to put together a puzzle with some of the pieces missing wouldn't it?

REPLY: The jigsaw puzzle analogy works for me. It's clear that a whole lot of things have been covered up in this case. With resources like mccannfiles, pamalam's site and others, and informative blogs and discussion forums such as this one, we are gradually finding more missing pieces of a very big jigsaw puzzle - the work done on the 'Last Photo' being an example of jigsaw pieces that we have found and which were not available to Amaral and his team in the 45months he was in charge of the investigation. We have now had 8 years and 6 months to study this.

We may never be able to complete the jigsaw. But as we find more and more jigsaw pieces, the picture of what really happened slowly but surely gets ever more clear    



____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Joss on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 9:54

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Joss wrote:I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened, seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case.

REPLY: Agreed. The interim report of Tavares de Almeida, dated 10 September 2007, makes this abundantly clear.

They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would have had.

REPLY: Here, with respect, I fundamentally disagree with you. It's clear that Amaral's book, and the interim report of Tavares de Almeida, were based on all the thousands of pages of witnesses statements, expert opinions, forensic and other evidence, the vast majority of which was released by the Portuguese authorities in August 2008. Thus the general public looking at the case had available to them an 'open book' showing what the basis was for Tavares de Almeida's report and for the conclusions in Amaral's book     

I think there is still other evidence to date the public are not aware of, so how can anyone really come to any firm conclusion on what happened to Madeleine if there is not a complete picture of all the information? It would be like trying to put together a puzzle with some of the pieces missing wouldn't it?

REPLY: The jigsaw puzzle analogy works for me. It's clear that a whole lot of things have been covered up in this case. With resources like mccannfiles, pamalam's site and others, and informative blogs and discussion forums such as this one, we are gradually finding more missing pieces of a very big jigsaw puzzle - the work done on the 'Last Photo' being an example of jigsaw pieces that we have found and which were not available to Amaral and his team in the 45months he was in charge of the investigation. We have now had 8 years and 6 months to study this.

We may never be able to complete the jigsaw. But as we find more and more jigsaw pieces, the picture of what really happened slowly but surely gets ever more clear    


Thanks for your reply Tony. And i agree, we did get a lot of information in the public, but i thought some of the PJ files/investigation was withheld from the public domain as well? And what was it GA said about "the case will be solved".....? I just had the impression there is more info. we haven't yet been privy to?

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by guest12345 on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 13:28

@Joss wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Joss wrote:I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened, seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case.

REPLY: Agreed. The interim report of Tavares de Almeida, dated 10 September 2007, makes this abundantly clear.

They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would have had.

REPLY: Here, with respect, I fundamentally disagree with you. It's clear that Amaral's book, and the interim report of Tavares de Almeida, were based on all the thousands of pages of witnesses statements, expert opinions, forensic and other evidence, the vast majority of which was released by the Portuguese authorities in August 2008. Thus the general public looking at the case had available to them an 'open book' showing what the basis was for Tavares de Almeida's report and for the conclusions in Amaral's book     

I think there is still other evidence to date the public are not aware of, so how can anyone really come to any firm conclusion on what happened to Madeleine if there is not a complete picture of all the information? It would be like trying to put together a puzzle with some of the pieces missing wouldn't it?

REPLY: The jigsaw puzzle analogy works for me. It's clear that a whole lot of things have been covered up in this case. With resources like mccannfiles, pamalam's site and others, and informative blogs and discussion forums such as this one, we are gradually finding more missing pieces of a very big jigsaw puzzle - the work done on the 'Last Photo' being an example of jigsaw pieces that we have found and which were not available to Amaral and his team in the 45months he was in charge of the investigation. We have now had 8 years and 6 months to study this.

We may never be able to complete the jigsaw. But as we find more and more jigsaw pieces, the picture of what really happened slowly but surely gets ever more clear    


Thanks for your reply Tony. And i agree, we did get a lot of information in the public, but i thought some of the PJ files/investigation was withheld from the public domain as well? And what was it GA said about "the case will be solved".....? I just had the impression there is more info. we haven't yet been privy to?

Correct Joss. The files released by the PJ are 'public interest files', not the full file set for the on-going investigation and we only have Amarals words through his book (although I do not dispute his findings/theories).


Unfortunately for all of us here, we have no access, or knowledge of the entire set of files from the PJ, those of SY, the Met, CEOP, NCA or any other agency working on the case. This is why all we can do is speculate on what we 'think' happened/is happening.


Until the case is closed, no further information will be put into the public domain (unfortunately) and even then, I very much doubt the files will ever be released in their entirety...annoyingly...as I for one would love to spend time reading through them!

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Tony Bennett on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 13:44

@guest12345 wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us here, we have no access, or knowledge of the entire set of files from the PJ, those of SY, the Met, CEOP, NCA or any other agency working on the case. This is why all we can do is speculate on what we 'think' happened/is happening.
True, much is hidden from us.

But you must admit we can do a lot more than merely 'speculate'.

There is a wealth of other information out there, take the antics of the McCann private investigators for starters.

Take people like Gary Hagland who have given us at least a glimpse into the murky doings of Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3.

Look at HideoHo's brilliant analysis of the absence of credible evidence that Madeleine was alive after Monday 30th.

Or for that matter Textusa's analysis last week of the Krokowski kidnapping fabrications. 

New things are being discovered on this case all the time.

No-one should dare to say: 'Stop - You're wasting your time'

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Joss on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 14:29

@guest12345 wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Joss wrote:I think if Goncalo Amaral and the other investigators on the case at the time were convinced Madeleine died in the holiday apartment on the evening of the 3rd. May, they would have good reason to believe that is what happened, seeing as they were the authority in charge of the case.

REPLY: Agreed. The interim report of Tavares de Almeida, dated 10 September 2007, makes this abundantly clear.

They were privy to a lot more information than the general public looking at the case would have had.

REPLY: Here, with respect, I fundamentally disagree with you. It's clear that Amaral's book, and the interim report of Tavares de Almeida, were based on all the thousands of pages of witnesses statements, expert opinions, forensic and other evidence, the vast majority of which was released by the Portuguese authorities in August 2008. Thus the general public looking at the case had available to them an 'open book' showing what the basis was for Tavares de Almeida's report and for the conclusions in Amaral's book     

I think there is still other evidence to date the public are not aware of, so how can anyone really come to any firm conclusion on what happened to Madeleine if there is not a complete picture of all the information? It would be like trying to put together a puzzle with some of the pieces missing wouldn't it?

REPLY: The jigsaw puzzle analogy works for me. It's clear that a whole lot of things have been covered up in this case. With resources like mccannfiles, pamalam's site and others, and informative blogs and discussion forums such as this one, we are gradually finding more missing pieces of a very big jigsaw puzzle - the work done on the 'Last Photo' being an example of jigsaw pieces that we have found and which were not available to Amaral and his team in the 45months he was in charge of the investigation. We have now had 8 years and 6 months to study this.

We may never be able to complete the jigsaw. But as we find more and more jigsaw pieces, the picture of what really happened slowly but surely gets ever more clear    


Thanks for your reply Tony. And i agree, we did get a lot of information in the public, but i thought some of the PJ files/investigation was withheld from the public domain as well? And what was it GA said about "the case will be solved".....? I just had the impression there is more info. we haven't yet been privy to?

Correct Joss. The files released by the PJ are 'public interest files', not the full file set for the on-going investigation and we only have Amarals words through his book (although I do not dispute his findings/theories).


Unfortunately for all of us here, we have no access, or knowledge of the entire set of files from the PJ, those of SY, the Met, CEOP, NCA or any other agency working on the case. This is why all we can do is speculate on what we 'think' happened/is happening.


Until the case is closed, no further information will be put into the public domain (unfortunately) and even then, I very much doubt the files will ever be released in their entirety...annoyingly...as I for one would love to spend time reading through them!
I agree, and sometimes i'm not really sure what to think about this case with all the twists and turns it has had. I just get the feeling there is something very sinister about the whole fiasco.

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Joss on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 14:37

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us here, we have no access, or knowledge of the entire set of files from the PJ, those of SY, the Met, CEOP, NCA or any other agency working on the case. This is why all we can do is speculate on what we 'think' happened/is happening.
True, much is hidden from us.

But you must admit we can do a lot more than merely 'speculate'.

There is a wealth of other information out there, take the antics of the McCann private investigators for starters.

Take people like Gary Hagland who have given us at least a glimpse into the murky doings of Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3.

Look at HideoHo's brilliant analysis of the absence of credible evidence that Madeleine was alive after Monday 30th.

Or for that matter Textusa's analysis last week of the Krokowski kidnapping fabrications. 

New things are being discovered on this case all the time.

No-one should dare to say: 'Stop - You're wasting your time'
Yep, the ongoing epic saga that is the McCann case. Could this be a psyop?
 Where is Maddie?

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by guest12345 on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 16:30

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us here, we have no access, or knowledge of the entire set of files from the PJ, those of SY, the Met, CEOP, NCA or any other agency working on the case. This is why all we can do is speculate on what we 'think' happened/is happening.
True, much is hidden from us.

But you must admit we can do a lot more than merely 'speculate'. - Yes, apologies, I didn't mean for that to sound like we are all wasting our time. There has been some fantastic analysis based on information made available, regardless of the source or authenticity. Some really great discussions on both the major event and other events either side

There is a wealth of other information out there, take the antics of the McCann private investigators for starters. - Hmm, not sure I would believe much of what they say tbh, but it does give a different perspective on many points

Take people like Gary Hagland who have given us at least a glimpse into the murky doings of Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3. - I'd ignore him and tbh I would ignore Kennedy as well. Too much self-promotion for my liking

Look at HideoHo's brilliant analysis of the absence of credible evidence that Madeleine was alive after Monday 30th. - I agree, the information available in the public domain regarding her being alive after the 30th would raise eyebrows and raise further questions (as it has done on here), though if there was any firm evidence (or lack of) regarding this being the last day she was alive, I have no doubt that the relevant parties would have changed tact on the investigation. CEOP/SY/Met must have evidence she was alive up until the night.

Or for that matter Textusa's analysis last week of the Krokowski kidnapping fabrications. - IMO not fabrications but I know you are of the impression they were Tony, which I completely understand.

New things are being discovered on this case all the time. - That much is completely true, hence the on-going interest and healthy debate about so many items

No-one should dare to say: 'Stop - You're wasting your time' - I agree and no-one does, whether it be us on t'internet, the police or the media. The whole saga is so big and complex, it needs to be unwound. Based on that, no time is wasted and the truth about her demise may eventually unravel.

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by HiDeHo on Tue 10 Nov 2015 - 17:22

Just to note that in this interview Goncalo Amaral does not confirm the date suggested, though I know at other times he has said the 3rd..






Let's not forget, also, that he only had the original statements to work with.  Many of the discrepancies come from the Rogatory statements and I doubt very much that after leaving the investigation he took the time to read the translated version, at least with much scrutiny.

However, there are a few tings which have always 'suggested' the police may have looked at the possibility of something odd earlier in the week.

Goncalo Amaral points to Maddie's bed and suggests that it wasn't slept in.  The bed was made Wednesday morning and he was aware of that, so is he suggesting something happened that Maddie wasn't sleeping in her bed Wednesday night, or is he suggesting the bed was 'made' prior to 10pm.  Odd that if that was the case it wouldn't show more of a possibility of it having been 'ruffled' more as you would expect.

He would have also been aware that Gerry and Kate BOTH contradict each other about picking up Madeleine from the creche on Thursday, the DAY BEFORE their statements so memory should not have been an issue.

KATE:

Afterwards, she is not sure, they went back together to the apartment until close to 12:15 when she went to Madeleine’s crèche to pick her up, together with Fiona Payne. She signed the crèche's register and went to the twins’ crèche with the intention of picking them up, she thinks that she met Gerry there, not knowing if he already had the twins with him. Together with the three children they went to the apartment for lunch, with food bought at the supermarket. This would be around 12:35/12:40. They ate sandwiches, mainly the deponent and Gerry, and the children maybe ate pasta. Lunch lasted around 20 minutes.




GERRY
 At 12H00, he agreed with KATE, as he recalls it, that she would make lunch and the deponent would pick up MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut.

The police asked everyone about having seen the McCanns in a car during the holiday... (in Rogatory interviews)





GA FOCUS INTERVIEW

Focus Interview August 2008

Before I left, a weekly magazine says: "That person does not last beyond October as the head of the investigation." This happened a month or two before. And then I was given a speech like that one from the Attorney General: 'Not all investigations can be successful, or the authors of the crimes are not always discovered…' What may have hurt many people was my will to discover the material truth. And when I left, I was naturally closer to the truth.

Two examples: Apart from our need to know who the friends of the McCann couple were, or if they knew anyone in Portugal, or who drove the car… if they eventually visited another apartment, if they used to meet someone, if they deposited someone… just for us to understand.

Towards the end, I was informed that they had visited people at a villa in Praia da Luz. We went to check it out. Then, we were informed that the McCanns had visited an apartment block near the cemetery. And we were working on that, in order to confirm whether it was them or not.

This was how we were trying to understand where the body was. And there are many persons who were not investigated, who were not in the process.




Rachael Mampilly
“Did you see Kate or Gerry inside any car during the holiday period”?
Reply “During the whole time that we were there, or just, or up to the third of May or, I mean I never saw them in a car the whole time, I mean there was no car”.


Matthew Oldfield

"Sorry. Did you see them inside a car during the holiday?”
Reply "No, no I didn’t know there was a car.



Jane Tanner

“Did you see Kate or Gerry inside any car during the holiday period”?
Reply “No, apart from when they got dropped off the first day by (inaudible)”.
4078 “Okay and what about there subsequently, by the Police or whatever”?
Reply “Erm well I’ve came back in a car with Gerry from the Police Station after the second interviews, I saw him in the car erm but no I didn’t see him in any, we didn’t have access to any other cars during our, the time, those two weeks that we were there afterwards”.



Russell O'Brien
 "Did you see Kate and Gerry inside a car during the holidays?
Reply "Err no not during the holiday err you know obviously the hire car err business is well known, I, I mean, I don’t think there was any of us had a car err or saw, or there was any access to a car until sort of Gerry’s family all came, Gerry’s family had come over and hired a car when they came. So there was a car around after that but I don’t actually particularly remember err much about Kate and Gerry using it, I think on a couple of occasions, if I think closely, I think they may have driven down to the church just to try and keep the, the, the crowds and things off them. Err but certainly in terms of, the quote “holiday”, that was, you know they didn’t not have a car.”



David Payne

 "Did you see them in a car at all whilst you were in Portugal, prior to Madeleine disappearing?”
Reply "Err we all arrived you know at Praia Da Luz initially in the taxi err apart from that I can’t really recall.”
1485 "That’s it.”
Reply "I can’t recall err seeing you know err going anywhere in a car.”


Fiona Payne

“Did you see Gerry and Kate inside a car during the holidays?”
Reply -“No, never. They didn’t have a car”.
1485 - “Never?”
Reply - “(Shakes head). There was no reason to”.


Dianne Webster

PC: "They asked you if anyone had used a car on holiday.”
DW: "No.”


Catriona Nanny

I never saw Kate or Gerry in a car in Portugal. I visited the family in their home at their invitation to see how they were getting along in November of 2007. That was the first time I saw them in a car. 



Rachael claims to have seen Maddie for the last time at mini tennis on Thursday when Maddie's group played on Tuesday... but WHY did the police specifically ask her to describe the court she was playing in... They possibly knew she was trying to cover something up?

The text messages that were DENIED and DELETED started arriving at 8am Wednesday morning.. WHY would they have an interest in these messages that they applied to SUPREME COURT to identify them just before the archival (rejected)

There are many suggestions that it is possible the police were aware of something happening prior to Thursday evening...



I am not sure I am comfortable being included as a conspiracy theorist...

I have taken the details from the files and after putting them into a timeline SAW discrepancies and contradictions.  I have not taken a 'theory' out of thin air and applied it to make everything fit.

I looked at all the details and they told me the story... I didn't know what I would find looking at the witness statements about who saw Maddie...At the conclusion I was quite shocked to see that apart from Fatima there was NO PROOF of anyone seeing Maddie.  This does not mean she WASN'T seen, only that there is no proof...

As mentioned before, I find the scenario of something happening earlier in the week with time to put everything into place far more logical and less conspiracy, than to suggest that it was all accomplished within an hour!

I have yet to see a timeline of the evening that covers (credibly) how it was accomplished...

If Gerry found her at 9pm check...

He managed to overcome the shock of finding his daughter dead?

She was moved to bedroom?

He decided on a plan...

He 'rushed' back to the tapas to inform the others?

He used his time to stop and casually chat with Jez for a few minutes..

Did he tell Kate who managed to hide any grief until 10pm?

Did he tell Russell of the plan?

He then disappeared back to the apartment, took Maddie's body and placed it in the garden?

He chose the only thing he could do quickly and that was to carry her (uncovered) through the streets down to the beach and return back to the tapas/apartment in time for the 10pm raising of the alarm by Kate?

Had he arranged with Kate to check the children at 10?

There was no reason to accomplish all this within an hours time frame.  IF he found Maddie, and presuming he wasn't all alone in all this, he would know that Kate needed time to grieve and to explain to her why this had to happen this way... What the plan was etc etc

10 pm was their CHOSEN deadline... It could have been later at 11pm....or it could have happened the day before...or the day before that and THURSDAY 10pm was the best time to put it into place...

That to me, is an easier explanation that 9.05pm until 10pm  (or even 6pm - 10pm).

Pat and I have very different thoughts on this but we can get past them, and respect each other has a different opinion, because of ONE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER...

Pat is a PROFESSIONAL and therefore has no option but to stay within the boundaries of what is known.

Each of the discrepancies is an INDICATION of something but each one could have another explanation.  The VOLUME of discrepancies is also an indication but still not enough for a professional profiler to use as part of an official statement.

That does not mean that it doesn't reflect a strong possibility of what actually MAY have happened and that's what we are free to discuss smilie
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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Tony Bennett on Wed 11 Nov 2015 - 8:48

@guest12345 wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@guest12345 wrote:
Unfortunately for all of us here, we have no access, or knowledge of the entire set of files from the PJ, those of SY, the Met, CEOP, NCA or any other agency working on the case. This is why all we can do is speculate on what we 'think' happened/is happening.
True, much is hidden from us.

But you must admit we can do a lot more than merely 'speculate'. - Yes, apologies, I didn't mean for that to sound like we are all wasting our time. There has been some fantastic analysis based on information made available, regardless of the source or authenticity. Some really great discussions on both the major event and other events either side

There is a wealth of other information out there, take the antics of the McCann private investigators for starters. - Hmm, not sure I would believe much of what they say tbh, but it does give a different perspective on many points

Take people like Gary Hagland who have given us at least a glimpse into the murky doings of Brian Kennedy and Metodo 3. - I'd ignore him and tbh I would ignore Kennedy as well. Too much self-promotion for my liking

Look at HideoHo's brilliant analysis of the absence of credible evidence that Madeleine was alive after Monday 30th. - I agree, the information available in the public domain regarding her being alive after the 30th would raise eyebrows and raise further questions (as it has done on here), though if there was any firm evidence (or lack of) regarding this being the last day she was alive, I have no doubt that the relevant parties would have changed tact on the investigation. CEOP/SY/Met must have evidence she was alive up until the night.

Or for that matter Textusa's analysis last week of the Krokowski kidnapping fabrications. - IMO not fabrications but I know you are of the impression they were Tony, which I completely understand.

New things are being discovered on this case all the time. - That much is completely true, hence the on-going interest and healthy debate about so many items

No-one should dare to say: 'Stop - You're wasting your time' - I agree and no-one does, whether it be us on t'internet, the police or the media. The whole saga is so big and complex, it needs to be unwound. Based on that, no time is wasted and the truth about her demise may eventually unravel.
Thank you for your reply. I had thought when you said 'all we can do is speculate' you were in effect endorsing Pat Brown's call for us all to pack up and go home and just (to quote her) 'focus on where the body might be'.

She also said, quote: "If only all the focus of everyone - the public, the police, and professionals - simply looked back at May 3rd, 2007 and analysed what went wrong that evening..."

At a stroke, Pat was denigrating anyone e.g. like HideHo who has dedicated a huge amount of effort to analysing a myriad of contradictions and noting the absence of credible evidence of 'sightings' of Madeleine' after Sunday 29 April. She was, equally, denigrating the work of PeterMac, Blue Bag, rustyjames and others on CMOMM who did the important analysis on the 'Last Photo', which Pat pronounced a complete waste of time and effort. She was insisting that Madeleine died on the evening of 3rd May, whatever the evidence to the contrary.  

To say I was very disappointed with her is an understatement.

Just to turn to a few points you made above:

A. Should we 'ignore' Gary Hagland as you suggest?

How can we ignore what Gary Hagland says? We know for a fact that he worked for Brian Kennedy during that all-important first few months of the McCanns' private investigation. He has revealed some of the secrets of that investigation. WE know that he was an expert in money laundering legislation and had no experience whatsoever of finding missing persons or children. Should we not pursue why he was really appointed?    

B. Should we 'ignore' Brian Kennedy, the Head of the McCanns' private investigation, as you suggest? 

You wrote:  "I'd ignore...Kennedy. Too much self-promotion for my liking".

I cannot for the life of me understand why you should urge CMOMM members here to 'ignore' Brian Kennedy.

Why should CMOMM members 'ignore' Brian Kennedy when he...

* has headed the McCanns' private investigation for over 8 years
* appointed Metodo 3, the disreputable Barcelona agency that gave us the lies of 'Maddie will be home by Christmas'
* contacted the Smith family in Ireland as early as December 2007 and engaged him on the 'Smithman' campaign
* hired the serial con-man and criminal fraudster Kevin Halligen
* hired the ex-Head of MI5's Covert Intelligence Department Henri Exton to produce two highly controversial e-fits
* hired Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley, primarily to give credence to the 'Mockumentary' shown in May 2009
* met with Robert Murat and the Eveleighs and their solicitor at a meeting in their home, Salsalitas, on 13 November 2007
* appointed the dodgy lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia to prosecute Goncalo Amaral
* also employed Correia to carry out two bogus searches of the Arade Dam.

We should 'ignore' all this?

Really?

C. Was Nuno Lourenco's story of Polish man Wojchiech Krokowski trying twice to kidnap his daughter at Sagres on Sunday 29th April true?

You think it was??

May I ask if you have read Textusa's detailed analysis of Lourenco's statement.

If not, could I please ask you to do that and then return here and tell us if you still believe that Nuno Lourenco's account of events is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

D. Do CEOP/SY/Met have evidence that Madeleine was alive up until the night?

You say that CEOP and the Met Police 'must have' evidence that Madeleine was alive until the night of 3rd May.

Do you not accept that the remit of the investigation from Day One - to investigate the abduction and, in the words of the Prime Minister's spokesman, 'to help the family' - precludes them from investigating anything that contradicts the parents' version of events? 

____________________


2007 (28 June) Dr Gerry McCann: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

2017 (February) Dr Kate McCannthrust into a global bidding war…news giants battle to sign her up for the 10th anniversary…offered huge bids…bombarded with offers…30 sitting on the table…getting new bids every other day…one told Kate and Gerry: ‘Name your price!’
                        

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Re: Pat Brown: Why the McCanns Love Conspiracy Theorists

Post by Mark Willis on Wed 11 Nov 2015 - 11:32

goodpost
I agree, but only entirely.  thumbsup

That patronising attitude put me off her years ago.
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