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Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

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Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 02.08.15 17:51

Madeleine dies - night of 2/3, having fallen off the sofa and lodged down the back,
Fluids leak onto the floor.
Kate and Gerry come home separately, not speaking,
Sleep in different bedrooms,
Kate doesn't even turn the light on in Children's room, so does not notice that Madeleine is missing
Following morning, 3rd, found stiff and cold behind sofa
Put in blue bag in wardrobe
Kate cleans house on 3rd.
Madeleine's bed inadvertently made and then turned down to make it look as if she had been there - but not convincing
Gerry takes afternoon off tennis to organise things
Tapas group told to keep away - and eat elsewhere for tea.
Creche sheets "managed' as they have been all week
Story concocted, but gaps not filled in and so people invent their own versions round the details, which do not match

So far so normal.

elaborate 'checking system' suddenly invented.
Gerry does the check at an exact time, 9:04 by his watch, so as to be there exactly at 9:05.
He enters - irrelevant which way.
Disposalman arrives at front door at exactly 9:05 as arranged.
Disposalman remains outside the front door - no forensics in the apartment
Gerry hands over the body.
Blue bag is replaced on the shelf - see photo
Fluids continue to seep.
Length of time involved is attributed to seeing children, using the toilet, watching the football
Disposalman stands in the concealed doorway for the allotted time and walks round
Carrying a slightly leaking corpse, so holds it away from his body
Gerry leaves by patio door
Jez is in the way, so Gerry tries to get him to the other side of the road, he reports he has done this, but Jez remembers differently
Tanner comes past
It is in fact irrelevant whether she saw Disposalman or not.

Disposalman carries M to house short distance away with large freezer.  
Disposalman then goes home / to bar / mingles with crowd / joins search / hides in plain view, or sits with a beer watching the match waiting for police to do house to house, and is eliminated or not visited

Search and enquiries start and die down.
Next day
Bag destroyed or disposed of,
They see the priest and ask for facilities for a Private burial.
He refuses, contrary to law
But he is gradually destroyed by the fact that he knows.  
Priest seeks advice from Bishop.
Bishop later reports to Rome
M is removed from the Vatican website.

Three weeks later, hire car, body retrieved, and taken for burial, disposal.
Small amount of fluids leak into boot as it thaws out.
?  Burgau / small cemeteries outside outlying villages, all allow for "proper respect" to be shown
?  Placed in niche and bricked up , in the standard Southern European way.
?  Bogus name or initials appended to the front, so no one notices.  Everyone in the village assume others know.  Why would anyone ask questions.
(Far better in a cemetery.  No dog is going to find it !)
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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by cockerspaniel on 02.08.15 19:05

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:Madeleine dies - night of 2/3, having fallen off the sofa and lodged down the back,
Fluids leak onto the floor.
Kate and Gerry come home separately, not speaking,
Sleep in different bedrooms,
Kate doesn't even turn the light on in Children's room, so does not notice that Madeleine is missing
Following morning, 3rd, found stiff and cold behind sofa
Put in blue bag in wardrobe
Kate cleans house on 3rd.
Madeleine's bed inadvertently made and then turned down to make it look as if she had been there - but not convincing
Gerry takes afternoon off tennis to organise things
Tapas group told to keep away - and eat elsewhere for tea.
Creche sheets "managed' as they have been all week
Story concocted, but gaps not filled in and so people invent their own versions round the details, which do not match

So far so normal.

elaborate 'checking system' suddenly invented.
Gerry does the check at an exact time, 9:04 by his watch, so as to be there exactly at 9:05.
He enters - irrelevant which way.
Disposalman arrives at front door at exactly 9:05 as arranged.
Disposalman remains outside the front door - no forensics in the apartment
Gerry hands over the body.
Blue bag is replaced on the shelf - see photo
Fluids continue to seep.
Length of time involved is attributed to seeing children, using the toilet, watching the football
Disposalman stands in the concealed doorway for the allotted time and walks round
Carrying a slightly leaking corpse, so holds it away from his body
Gerry leaves by patio door
Jez is in the way, so Gerry tries to get him to the other side of the road, he reports he has done this, but Jez remembers differently
Tanner comes past
It is in fact irrelevant whether she saw Disposalman or not.

Disposalman carries M to house short distance away with large freezer.  
Disposalman then goes home / to bar / mingles with crowd / joins search / hides in plain view, or sits with a beer watching the match waiting for police to do house to house, and is eliminated or not visited

Search and enquiries start and die down.
Next day
Bag destroyed or disposed of,
They see the priest and ask for facilities for a Private burial.
He refuses, contrary to law
But he is gradually destroyed by the fact that he knows.  
Priest seeks advice from Bishop.
Bishop later reports to Rome
M is removed from the Vatican website.

Three weeks later, hire car, body retrieved, and taken for burial, disposal.
Small amount of fluids leak into boot as it thaws out.
?  Burgau / small cemeteries outside outlying villages, all allow for "proper respect" to be shown
?  Placed in niche and bricked up , in the standard Southern European way.
?  Bogus name or initials appended to the front, so no one notices.  Everyone in the village assume others know.  Why would anyone ask questions.
(Far better in a cemetery.  No dog is going to find it !)
Creche sheets "managed' as they have been all week.....
Q.. why would the creche sheets have been "managed" all week if as per 1st line--- Madeleine dies - night of 2/3, having fallen off the sofa and lodged down the back????  presumably an accident no.

Q.. what is disposal mans motive for getting involved in such a nefarious act/plan that he or she is prepared to have a dead child in his/her freezer for an unspecified amount of time, knowing that if the child is found and linked to him/her it could be the mother of all eff ups???

otherwise... makes a fair bit of sense !!!

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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Miraflores on 02.08.15 21:43

As good a theory as any. 
Creche sheets managed? To hide the fact that Mark Warner's childcare wasn't up to scratch, as revealed by a Panorama programme about other MW outfits.
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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Guest on 02.08.15 22:24

What if Disposalman was in fact Disposalwoman: Jane Tanner? 

Then, certainly, Gerry 'would not have seen her'

Or if Jez was? 'Buggyman', you remember? Late knock on his door to see if he'd returned to his apartment, not to ask him to come help & search

Interesting theory, Disposalperson!
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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Richard IV on 02.08.15 22:32

Good theory IMO and keeps it simple.

But .... IMO not `bad` enough to warrant a cover-up - just a genuine accident that they didn`t notice until the morning.  

If that`s what happened, what makes it suspect is why they didn`t call 911 straight away as soon as they found her - they wouldn`t have got pilloried or lose their jobs merely for not checking their children before they went to bed.  So I think there has to be a sinister aspect to that theory for it to be covered up, IMO.
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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by cockerspaniel on 02.08.15 23:06

@Miraflores wrote:As good a theory as any. 
Creche sheets managed? To hide the fact that Mark Warner's childcare wasn't up to scratch, as revealed by a Panorama programme about other MW outfits.
hmmm, I have not read about any problems with the MW chidcare before or since at MW@PDL. Can you point me to any complaints by parents for that particular resort, would be interesting??? Thanks

when you say .... To hide the fact that Mark Warner's childcare wasn't up to scratch, as revealed by a Panorama programme about other MW outfits.    What do you mean by "not up to scratch? , seemed like there were plenty of nannies there, and I dont think you can tar PDL with the same brush just because there may have been problems at other resorts otherwise there wouldnt be such things as chains and franchises. WADR

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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Richard IV on 02.08.15 23:54

From BBC`s Whistleblower 

"After these two nurseries, I decided to investigate the self-styled upper end of the child-minding business, where I soon realised that the problems are not confined to our own shores.

Mark Warner operates at the top of the holiday market, charging up to £8,000 for two weeks abroad for a family of four.
It makes a point of offering "award-winning" childcare.

That award-winning care didn't extend to checking my CV, contacting my references, doing a criminal records check or even asking to see some basic ID. Again, I could have been anyone.

I worked at Mark Warner's swanky Hilton resort in Dahab, Egypt, where the luxurious hotel rooms are built to resemble a traditional whitewashed Arab village.

Despite being promised two days' training at the interview, I was thrown straight in with a group of toddlers.

Once, there were two of us looking after 13 children - when Mark Warner's own regulations state there should be no more than six per adult.

When I asked about my training, the manager just said: "You don't get official training as such. It's very relaxed, very laid-back here."
This is unlikely to be the approach parents think they are paying for.

Next, I was asked to supervise the children on the beach. Again, no one had checked if I had any swimming or rescue qualifications.

Even more worrying, I had to take children out on a boat without enough safety gear for all of them. When I raised the issue with my manager, he told me to go ahead with the boat trip anyway.

Also, for such a prestigious company with an upmarket reputation, Mark Warner has a very cavalier attitude to the employment laws of the countries where it operates, and is not controlled by Ofsted.

Like many of its staff in Dahab, I was there on a tourist visa.
Mark Warner should have paid for work permits but instead had us break Egyptian law on their behalf.

We were told we should just lie and say we were there on holiday, but Egypt is not the kind of country-where you want to end up in prison.
Three weeks after I returned from Egypt, the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a Mark Warner resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal made headlines around the world.

No one blamed the company or its staff for the little girl's disappearance, but given the case, I assumed the company would toughen up its vetting of nannies.

To test this out, a BBC colleague applied for a Mark Warner childcare job and was sent to an upmarket French ski resort.

Her false CV went unchecked and, months after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the company still didn't do a CRB check before she started work.

Later, I recounted my experiences to Mark Warner's managing director.
He refused to be interviewed but issued a statement that said: "It is company policy that all childcare staff employed by Mark Warner must supply two references and submit a form to check their criminal record.

"There were clearly two occasions where we failed to do this. That is completely unacceptable and we apologise.
"We have now reviewed and strengthened our procedures."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-526248/The-shocking-truth-daycare-nurseries-creches.html#ixzz3hhY3gQuz  
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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by cockerspaniel on 03.08.15 0:03

@Richard IV wrote:From BBC`s Whistleblower 

"After these two nurseries, I decided to investigate the self-styled upper end of the child-minding business, where I soon realised that the problems are not confined to our own shores.

Mark Warner operates at the top of the holiday market, charging up to £8,000 for two weeks abroad for a family of four.
It makes a point of offering "award-winning" childcare.

That award-winning care didn't extend to checking my CV, contacting my references, doing a criminal records check or even asking to see some basic ID. Again, I could have been anyone.

I worked at Mark Warner's swanky Hilton resort in Dahab, Egypt, where the luxurious hotel rooms are built to resemble a traditional whitewashed Arab village.

Despite being promised two days' training at the interview, I was thrown straight in with a group of toddlers.

Once, there were two of us looking after 13 children - when Mark Warner's own regulations state there should be no more than six per adult.

When I asked about my training, the manager just said: "You don't get official training as such. It's very relaxed, very laid-back here."
This is unlikely to be the approach parents think they are paying for.

Next, I was asked to supervise the children on the beach. Again, no one had checked if I had any swimming or rescue qualifications.

Even more worrying, I had to take children out on a boat without enough safety gear for all of them. When I raised the issue with my manager, he told me to go ahead with the boat trip anyway.

Also, for such a prestigious company with an upmarket reputation, Mark Warner has a very cavalier attitude to the employment laws of the countries where it operates, and is not controlled by Ofsted.

Like many of its staff in Dahab, I was there on a tourist visa.
Mark Warner should have paid for work permits but instead had us break Egyptian law on their behalf.

We were told we should just lie and say we were there on holiday, but Egypt is not the kind of country-where you want to end up in prison.
Three weeks after I returned from Egypt, the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a Mark Warner resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal made headlines around the world.

No one blamed the company or its staff for the little girl's disappearance, but given the case, I assumed the company would toughen up its vetting of nannies.

To test this out, a BBC colleague applied for a Mark Warner childcare job and was sent to an upmarket French ski resort.

Her false CV went unchecked and, months after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the company still didn't do a CRB check before she started work.

Later, I recounted my experiences to Mark Warner's managing director.
He refused to be interviewed but issued a statement that said: "It is company policy that all childcare staff employed by Mark Warner must supply two references and submit a form to check their criminal record.

"There were clearly two occasions where we failed to do this. That is completely unacceptable and we apologise.
"We have now reviewed and strengthened our procedures."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-526248/The-shocking-truth-daycare-nurseries-creches.html#ixzz3hhY3gQuz  
with all due respect, dont believe everything the bbc tells you. any problems at PDL, I dont think you can use above as an example, its a bit like saying my local curry house gave me a dodgy meal so im never going to india..

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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by cockerspaniel on 03.08.15 0:23

@cockerspaniel wrote:
@Richard IV wrote:From BBC`s Whistleblower 

"After these two nurseries, I decided to investigate the self-styled upper end of the child-minding business, where I soon realised that the problems are not confined to our own shores.

Mark Warner operates at the top of the holiday market, charging up to £8,000 for two weeks abroad for a family of four.
It makes a point of offering "award-winning" childcare.

That award-winning care didn't extend to checking my CV, contacting my references, doing a criminal records check or even asking to see some basic ID. Again, I could have been anyone.

I worked at Mark Warner's swanky Hilton resort in Dahab, Egypt, where the luxurious hotel rooms are built to resemble a traditional whitewashed Arab village.

Despite being promised two days' training at the interview, I was thrown straight in with a group of toddlers.

Once, there were two of us looking after 13 children - when Mark Warner's own regulations state there should be no more than six per adult.

When I asked about my training, the manager just said: "You don't get official training as such. It's very relaxed, very laid-back here."
This is unlikely to be the approach parents think they are paying for.

Next, I was asked to supervise the children on the beach. Again, no one had checked if I had any swimming or rescue qualifications.

Even more worrying, I had to take children out on a boat without enough safety gear for all of them. When I raised the issue with my manager, he told me to go ahead with the boat trip anyway.

Also, for such a prestigious company with an upmarket reputation, Mark Warner has a very cavalier attitude to the employment laws of the countries where it operates, and is not controlled by Ofsted.

Like many of its staff in Dahab, I was there on a tourist visa.
Mark Warner should have paid for work permits but instead had us break Egyptian law on their behalf.

We were told we should just lie and say we were there on holiday, but Egypt is not the kind of country-where you want to end up in prison.
Three weeks after I returned from Egypt, the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a Mark Warner resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal made headlines around the world.

No one blamed the company or its staff for the little girl's disappearance, but given the case, I assumed the company would toughen up its vetting of nannies.

To test this out, a BBC colleague applied for a Mark Warner childcare job and was sent to an upmarket French ski resort.

Her false CV went unchecked and, months after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the company still didn't do a CRB check before she started work.

Later, I recounted my experiences to Mark Warner's managing director.
He refused to be interviewed but issued a statement that said: "It is company policy that all childcare staff employed by Mark Warner must supply two references and submit a form to check their criminal record.

"There were clearly two occasions where we failed to do this. That is completely unacceptable and we apologise.
"We have now reviewed and strengthened our procedures."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-526248/The-shocking-truth-daycare-nurseries-creches.html#ixzz3hhY3gQuz  
with all due respect, dont believe everything the bbc tells you. any problems at PDL, I dont think you can use above as an example, its a bit like saying my local curry house gave me a dodgy meal so im never going to india..
also, according to trip advisor, everything was pretty hunky dory at MW@PDL from sept 2005 onwards, with ratings as follows

excellent 61
Very good 51
Average 25
Poor 12
Terrible 6

so well above average id say.

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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Guest on 03.08.15 0:42

Would the Mecs bankinformation have shown them paying pnd 4000 (5000) for the week?

What do you think?
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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by cockerspaniel on 03.08.15 1:51

@Portia wrote:Would the Mecs bankinformation have shown them paying pnd 4000 (5000) for the week?

What do you think?
Doubt it, i could have a luxury vila in mallorca peak season for more or less that kind of money!!

I personally just have my doubts about MW being involved in this, nothing more than reputation management for them after the incident until breaking ties last year.

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Re: Disposalman + Storageman theory purported

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 03.08.15 9:34

A couple of comments from the CMOMM facebook group:



  • Belinda McCarthy Having trained as a private investigator myself, I am very much of the opinion that one should keep theories simple, & the above theory does to some extent. However, IMO the complexities of Tannerman ( now dismissed by Mr. Redwood) & Smithman are IMO red herrings used by the McCanns to cover the fact that Madeleines death by accident behind the sofa happened on Sunday evening & removal of her body was long before Thursday.
    9 hrs · Like · 2


  • Belinda McCarthy In my theory I look at the most glaring "red flag" in the PJ Case files witness statements & then work my way backwards from there. The biggest "red flag" to me is why did the Mark Warner nanny AMY say that she saw the shutter & window open on Thursday evening when forensics revealed this did not happen!!! What was her motivation for saying this??? Who was she protecting????Why was AMY reinforcing the McCanns lies??? Mr.Amaral (when later removed from the case) has said that AMY is the key to solving the case & I believe he is correct. In my theory, Madeleine died on Sunday evening when a Mark Warner nanny was babysitting her in apartment 5A . Madeleine woke up when the babysitter was distracted, climbed on top of the lounge (while holding cuddlecat, hence the cadaver odor on it) to look out the window for her parents, fell onto the tiled floor, smashed her head & sadly died. When Kate & Gerry get home & discover Madeleine dead they perform emergency resusitation which causes the blood splatter on the walls behind the sofa. The coverup now begins because the McCanns know that an autopsy will show that Kate has been sedating Madeleine for years & this public revelation will mean that Kate will lose her career & her twins. OMO.



  • Belinda McCarthy Sean, IMO either Gerry or one of the Tapas men took Paynes look alike daughter Lily for an intentional walk around PDL that evening to be seen by people to give credence to the abduction myth. Imo he wanted an audience, came back & changed his clothes, gave the child back to one of the Tapas group at a prearranged place & then rushed back to the restaurant confident that people would report the next day that they saw an abductor in the street. IMO no Tapas man would volunteer to do this deed for the McCanns, so therefore only Gerry could do it. IMO Kate sounding the alarm at just before 10pm. was Gerrys cue to rush to the apartment with everyone else, then pretend to go & search but instead he collected Lily at this time & did his walk about in PDL & gave her back to a Tapas member at a prearranged place & then rushed back to apartment 5A to join everyone else.IMO Madeleines body was long gone much earlier in the week & Smithman was probably just Gerry playacting as he is known to do to convince people in PDL that there was an abduction...look over here & don't look there scenario.OMO.
    15 hrs · Like · 1

  • Belinda McCarthy IMO if Smithman was not a stage managed performance by Gerry & co. Then my next guess is it was set up or made up to protect Murat & to point suspicion elsewhere...as, Smithman got to announce to police "It was not Robert Murat". OMO.



https://www.facebook.com/groups/JillHavernCompleteMysteryofMadeleineMcCann/permalink/1654337911477362/
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