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Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 12.07.15 18:09

You could well be right Tony. Is Albym still active on the case? 

If someone could contact Albym to clarify?

Tony I think you are mixing up what GM/MW did in Portugal (handing in 2 CDs of compiled photos to the PJ) and what LP/HP did with the Fosters cameras in England. They were both happening on and around the 8th May but were separate.

I don't think any discs from Portugal were sent to Hampshire/DC Martin.

He did produce a disc of images found on the Fosters camera that eventually made its way to the PJ but aren't in the files AFAIK. 

Tell you what though, going through these PJ files is hard work!
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.07.15 18:14

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

Does the above mean we are looking at THREE separate items of data that were delivered to D C Martin, the Hampshire Police Officer? - namely:

1. A disk supplied by Gerry McCann
2. A disk supplied by Martin Wright, and
3. Other images, 'dated 8 May'?


No, what's dated 8th May is the receipts for the disks delivered by GM and MW.

So there are only two items of data, plus a receipt for each item.
Thank you very much for clearing that up.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I have reproduced below the extract from the PJ files exhibiting the black-and-white scanned images as described by Albym.

I have excluded all those items described by 'Albym' as 'duplicates'.

I make that 129 unique images supplied to Hampshire Police by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright.

A great many seem to be from the Paynes' camera.

So there are only THREE images of Madeleine amongst these 129 photos.

That must tell us something

++++++++++++





 

 

 

 

 

BLACK AND WHITE (NOT GREY SCALE)
Page   Rotate  Image
Scarlet Payne baby, dark hair + clip..white jumpsuit page 556, 586a, 588a, 590b,  594a c, 597c, 603b, 604a, 608c with DP + tunnel toy, 612 a, 613
556-T   R-90   Adult with baby; upstairs
556-B   R-90   Adult with baby; upstairs
557-T   180    Child in teddy bear shirt
557-BL  R-90   DP with children on lap
557-BR  R-90   DP with children on lap
558-TL  0      Seated baby
558-TR  0      Child at patio door lock
558-B   R-90   Child at patio door
559-TL  0      Girl, sunglasses, juice, food, crossword, towel
559-TR  0      JT with baby; upstairs balcony
559-B   R-90   DP with child in lap at table
560-T   180    DP with children in lap
560-BL  R-90   DP with child in lap
560-BR  R-90   DP with child in lap
561-TL  0      Adult with baby; upstairs
561-TR  L-90   FP & DW with children; upstairs
561-B   R-90   DW with baby; upstairs
562-T   ????   Almost totally black
562-B   ???? Child in pyjamas/sheet? with small animals design
563-T   0  Child in teddy bear shirt (dupl 557-T)
563-B   0   Adult on upstairs balcony
564     0    Adults with children at table in flat


565 to 572  Greyscale Tapas group

08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 565  to 572

GREY SCALE IMAGES

568-T   R-90   Girl, sunglasses, juice, food, crossword, towel (dupl 559-TL)
568-B   R-90   JT with baby; upstairs balcony (dupl 559-TR)
569-T   0      Sunrise?; large cloud; upstairs balcony
569-B   0      Child; sunglasses; juice; food
570-B   0      Tapas vista; upstairs



573 to 583 Pictures of Tapas group
584 Blank page


08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 573  to 584

BLACK AND WHITE (NO GREY SCALE)
573-T   0      Rooftop vista
573-B   0      Main swimming pool
574-T   0      Adult seated; upstairs balcony
574-B   R-90   Child standing at upstairs balcony railing
575-T   R-90   Doorway?
575-B   R-90   FP close-up?; upstairs balcony
576-T   R-90   Child in starry pyjamas/shirt?
576-B   R-90   Child in starry pyjamas/shirt (close-up)
577     ????   ???? NO IDEA ????

Madeleine: pink tracksuit, seen with Lily . Pages: 578c running, 587a, 588b,   ??? 591a, 599b, 599c, 608b, 609a, 601b 

Lily, pinky striped top, blue jeans   seen with Maddy pages: 578c running, 585 with Gerry, 588b, 591a, 593a, 599b, 601b, 602a, 608b, 609a,610a, 612b
578-TL  ????   ???? NO IDEA ????
578-TR  ????   Child in pyjamas/sheet? with small animals design (dupl 562-B)

Elli
 : dress + joggers, fluffly long fair hair,   page 578c far right, 591a, 597, 602b, 610b
Grace Oldfield
 : 
 dark bob haircut, bold striped top.  page: 578c, 589a, 590a, 591a, 592a with Matt, 593b, 596a, 602b, 603c, 604c,  606b, 608a with Matt sandals + beach shorts, 610b, 611a, 612 (b), 614 (b)
Sean,
 airport clothes, olive green striped top, pale trousers, Page: 578c (crouching), 591a, b, 597a,  606a 608b, 614a,
Gerry Matt Fiona 
p 578c, 591a,
Jane 
602c?

578-B   0      Adults & children in play area
================
PDF Apenso  Desc.
    582-583 MISSING PAGE NUMBERSG PAGE NUMBERS
45  584     Blank page





585 to 618 Pictures of Tapas group
619 Blank page


08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 585  to 618

Group (2) Ocean Club

BLACK AND WHITE (NOT GREY SCALE)
Page   Rotate  Image
 
Elli
 (fair ) and Evie (baby, dark hair )  OBrien family, page  585a,  600c, 602b,
585-T  0       Male adult with two (three?) children next to kiddies (round) pool
585-B  R-90    Adult swinging child in play area
586-T  R-90    Close-up of child
586-B  R-90    Adult, possibly with child, in play area
587-T  R-90    Adult close-up





Page 587

Page 587 Amelie's backside in playhouse, maroon top and pink-white dacks, 587a 599c MBM

 

587-B  R-90    MBM in play area; arched doorway
588-T  R-90    Small child (baby?) holding up arms





Page_588

Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007

 

588-B  0       MBM and other child in play area 
Unidentified
 blonde girl with bob haircut,  589a,b,  604b,  with Grace 604c
589-T  0       Two children; close-up
589-B  0       Close-up of child
590-T  R-90    [Very unclear] possibly MBM in front of arched doorway
590-B  R-90    Close-up of child standing next to adult
591-T  0       Play area; three adults; four children (dupl 578-B)   
591-B  R-90    Child (MBM?) in play area
592-T  R-90    Child with adult
592-B  R-90    Child with adult
5  R-90    Child on slide
593-B  R-90    Child on slide
594-TL L-90    Adult(s) with child(ren); Paraiso
594-TR 0       Fence next to road?
594-B  R-90    Child next to fence
595-T  180     Tennis; 4 men; one serving far end 
595-BL R-90    Tennis; tele-lens of serve follow-through
595-BR R-90    Tennis; tele-lens of server in 595-T
596-TL 0       Two children standing at fence
596-TR 0       Adult hand/arm tossing tennis ball?
596-B  0       Adult/child seated in front of water/paving? 
597-T  L-90    Adult/child with Block 4 in background
597-BL R-90    Tennis; 4 females
597-BR R-90    Baby lying on grass
598-TL ????    ???? NO IDEA ????
598-TR L-90    Baby crawling on paving?
598-B  R-90    Baby seated
Amelie's backside in playhouse, maroon top and pink-white dacks, 587a, 599c
599-BL 180     Adult male close-up; 
601-TR 0       Adult with MBM and other child; play area 
??
601-B  0       Tennis; Adult (right); child (left); tent?
602-TL 0       Child standing with arms out
602-TR L-90    Adults/children near kiddies pool
602-B  R-90    Adult with baby/small child
603-TL 0       Adult head (left); child (right)
603-TR l-90    Adult & child romping on grass?
603-B  R-90    Child in play area
607  MISSING PAGE NUMBER





Page 608
 Family handout photo dated 02/05/2007 of Gerry McCannplaying with his children (left to right) Madeleine and Sean(laughing) the day before Madeleine went missing on the evening of May 3.

608-TL L-90    Play area; 'Playground man'


================
PDF Apenso  Desc.
79  619     Blank page





620 to 658 Pictures of Tapas group

08-OUTROS APENSOS 8 VOLUME 3 Pages 620  to 658

Group (3) Beach

BLACK AND WHITE (NOT GREY SCALE)
Page   Rotate  Image
620-T  R-90    Child on beach? (very obscure)
620-B  0       Paraiso 
621-T  R-90    Adult/child on beach
621-B  R-90    Child on beach
622-T  0  Shirt with Blue Peter insignia? (very obscure)
622-B  0  Shirt with Blue Peter insignia, and child in floral dress? (very obscure)
623-T  R-90    Adult standing with child in floral dress
623-B  0       Child in short-sleeved dress
624-T  R-90    Adult with child at water's edge
624-B  R-90    Child in sleeveless vest
625-T  R-90    Adult with baby
625-B  R-90    Child with sand spade
626-T  0       Adults with children at water's edge
626-B  R-90    Adult with baby in floral dress
627-T  R-90    Adult with baby in floral dress
627-B  R-90    Adult male with child
628-T  R-90    Adult female holding baby
628-B  0    Adult with baby in floral dress; passers-by near water
629-T  R-90    Child in sleeveless vest
629-B  0       Adult female holding baby (wide-shot)
630-T  R-90    Small child standing in front of adult's legs
630-B  R-90    Small child held on adult's hip; passer-by in background
631-T  0       Small child/baby on sand
631-B  R-90    Child (foreground); Adult female behind
632-T  0       Baby (floral dress) on sand
632-B  0       Adults and child
633-T  0       Adults and children seated on sand
633-B  R-90    Two adults standing on sand
634-T  ????    ???? NO IDEA ???? (totally obscure)
634-B  R-90    Silhouette at water's edge
635-T  R-90    Child in sleeveless vest
635-B  R-90    Baby (floral) with sun hat
636-TL 0       Baby (sun hat) and child (vest)
636-TR 0       Baby (floral) with sun hat 
636-B  0       Two men (not holiday group?)
637-TL ????    ???? Too obscure ???? 
637-TR L-90    Adult with baby (floral) on sand 
644-TL 0       Adult with child paddling
644-TR 0       Adult with cliff in background
644-B  R-90    Adult
645-B  0       Baby sitting on sand
646-B  R-90    Baby on blanket
647-T  R-90    Child with 'Cheeky' T-shirt (Payne?)
651-TR L-90    Baby with bucket? on head
651-B  0       People near water (obscure)

653  MISSING PAGE NUMBER (numbers in PDF truncated)
655-T  R-90    Adult and child standing
655-B  R-90    Adult and child standing



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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.07.15 18:21

TheTruthWillOut wrote:Tony I think you are mixing up what GM/MW did in Portugal (handing in 2 CDs of compiled photos to the PJ) and what LP/HP did with the Fosters cameras in England. They were both happening on and around the 8th May but were separate.

I don't think any discs from Portugal were sent to Hampshire/DC Martin. He did produce a disc of images found on the Fosters camera that eventually made its way to the PJ but aren't in the files AFAIK. 
But Nuala confirmed above that the images captured and scanned by D C Martin were indeed the two discs supplied by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright.

I askedDoes the above mean we are looking at THREE separate items of data that were delivered to D C Martin, the Hampshire Police Officer? - namely:

1. A disk supplied by Gerry McCann
2. A disk supplied by Martin Wright, and
3. Other images, 'dated 8 May'?


Nuala replied:  No, what's dated 8th May is the receipts for the disks delivered by GM and MW. So there are only two items of data, plus a receipt for each item.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.07.15 18:29

PeterMac wrote:What they forgot is that the Met Office reports and many other photos taken by other holiday makers during that week show conclusively that most of the dates and times given for photos allegedly taken by the McCanns are wrong.  
So you agree that the dates and times supplied for:

(a) the playground photo (Gerry twirling Madeleine) (Wednesday 2 May) and

(b) Madeleine outside the Wendy house (Wednesday 2 May at 5.15pm precisely)

were supplied to the PJ (or to D C Martin) by the McCann Team and not inserted by Albym?


Interesting point:

IF those two photos (and the other Wendy House photo, making three photos) were all taken on the Wednesday, as claimed - and presumably from the McCanns' camera, where are:

a) the other photos of Maddie from Wednesday?
b) the photos of Maddie from Tuesday?
c) the photos of Maddie from Monday?
b) the photos of Maddie from Sunday?
e) the photos of Maddie from Saturday? -and
f) the 'Last Photo'?

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 12.07.15 18:32

@ Tony Bennett

Nuala confirmed above that the images captured and scanned by D C Martin were indeed the two discs supplied by Gerry McCann and Michael Wright.

No I didn't, you're getting confused.

What @ TheTruthWillOut has said is correct.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 12.07.15 18:39

@ Tony Bennett

Just going back to this bit for a moment:

Or could it have been deliberately placed there (but with the memory card removed and replaced), as means of saying: "Look! We've nothing to hide. See! We've just left our camera casually on the table".

I'm wondering why you would think they would think about and take care of a detail such as a camera on a table to mislead but then bungle the jemmied shutters, made up bed, inconsistent timelines and twins in sheetless cots?

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 12.07.15 19:09

I found the thread where the mystery of the Olympus camera was looked into again after a anonymous comment (stating the Olympus belonged to the Fosters) was posted on Tigger's blog. Below is the timeline by Tigger after a number of posters went over the files again back in April.

tigger@MMM wrote:I often don't read comments so here is the solution to the Foster family photos: copy of my own comment.

The analysis of photos by DC Stuart William Martin in Hampshire and the confusion which has arisen and persisted are hereby explained - my apologies. I will post this up with the references and quotes at a later date. 

For the moment a short timeline will suffice: 

8/5/07 Leicester police phone Mr. Foster in the morning and email (presumably Hampshire Constabulary) to ask them to send an officer to Mrs. Foster who will hand him the camera and video to analyse and download. 

8/5/07 DC Martin receives the camera and video at 9.00 pm. 

9/5/07 DC Martin delivers a CD to Hampshire police together with the above equipment. at 8.30 am. 

9/5/07 Gerry McCann and M. Wright give the PJ two DVDs which they have compiled themselves with assorted holiday photos. 

23/5/07 PJ officer Paiva notes the content of the analysed photos from the Foster family. As anonymous has posted above. 

But not untill the 22nd of May did the call for photographs go out - at a press conference by Gerry McCann and on the same day BBC News posted it online. 

Consequently the Foster family could not have reacted to the call for photographs. 

The existence of two cameras in the McCann apartment is therefore highly unlikely. However, this has little influence on the question of the printing of the first photo, in which the Olympus was ruled out in any case. Since there was only the Canon and even if one could explain a set of two photographs being given out well before midnight, the combined timings and statements from several witnesses forming a fairly clear chain of evidence. 

It also appears that none of the photographs sent to CEOP dedicated website were passed to the PJ. Something else to consider in the overall confusion. 

The only change I would make now is that one or both GM/MW handed the CDs into the PJ on the 8th not the 9th.

Link to thread: http://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t422p165-tigger-s-latest-blogs-posted-here
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.07.15 19:20

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

Just going back to this bit for a moment:

Or could it have been deliberately placed there (but with the memory card removed and replaced), as means of saying: "Look! We've nothing to hide. See! We've just left our camera casually on the table".

I'm wondering why you would think they would think about and take care of a detail such as a camera on a table to mislead but then bungle the jemmied shutters, made up bed, inconsistent timelines and twins in sheetless cots?
REPLY:  In the case of the death of Stuart Lubbock, after Stuart was sodomised senseless with a large implement and at the same time asphyxiated, triggering a fatal heart attack, the killers and conspirators took great care to do all the following:

1. Clean up the place indoors where Stuart was killed
2. Clean up Stuart
3. Dress him up in a pair of boxer shorts (not his own) to make it look like he'd voluntarily gone for a swim
4. Open up (electronically) the outdoor swimming pool to make it look as though it had been uncovered all night (which it hadn't been)
5. Lay Stuart out by the side of the swimming pool
6. Pour a few buckets of water over him
7. Force the dead boy's throat open and poured water into him to fake a drowning
8. Get rid of large quantities of cocaine, skunk, amyl nitrate and Viagra down the toilets 
9. Call the ambulance, and
10. Have someone (Barrymore's lover, as it happens) pumping his chest in CPR mode to pretend that they were trying to revive him, just as the ambulance staff rushed to the poolside.

The conspirators also rehearsed an account of how they had glorioulsy dived in and rescued Stuart from the pool, and how Stuart had wanted to go swimming and had been larking about in the pool - total lies.

All went well to begin with. The crime scene had been rapidly transformed in less than 90 minutes. 

Then the police started interviewing the eight witnesses.

One said he dived in first.

Another claimed he did.

One said there were two of them present.

Another said there was only him.  

Barrymore himself became the third person to say that he saw Stuart first.

He said Stuart was at the bottom of the pool.

Others said he was lying at the top of the pool.

Some said he was lying face down.

Others said he was lying face up.

And so on.

The witnesses were re-interviewed in the light of the mass of discrepancies and contradictions. 

Some of the stories were such obvious lies that some of them changed their stories.

But it didn't really matter - because it seen became abundantly clear (or should have done) that they were all lying though through their teeth - with as many teeth as they had in their mouths - and that Stuart had never been in the pool that night.

You see, Nuala, they had taken great trouble to carefully arrange the crime scene - in double quick time.

But they were undone when the police started asking questions.

The 'jemmied shutters', 'broken windows' and 'smashed doors' jolted the mainstream media into action on Day One and made this an international media story for 8 years and counting.

What does it matter if they got that bit wrong?
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 12.07.15 19:37

At least on high profile cases it boils my blood Tony.

If you're a celeb and/or have access to a top defense team and good contacts, lying in statements isn't enough for the CPS to risk taking to court. On the other hand if you're a nobody without resources/contacts (like David Gilroy) a 100% circumstantial (but skilfully put together) case is enough.

That's how it often seems to me, anyway.
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 12.07.15 21:05

@ Tony Bennett

You see, Nuala, they had taken great trouble to carefully arrange the crime scene - in double quick time.

That might have happened in the Stuart Lubbock case, but it didn't in the Madeleine McCann case.

The crime scene showed no signs of an abduction at all, as the GNR saw straight away.

The crime scene had been rapidly transformed in less than 90 minutes.

If MM died earlier in the week, they had time to achieve more than the considerable amount that was achieved in 90 minutes in the Stuart Lubbock case, they had days to do it.

And yet, no signs of abduction anywhere. No break in, no jemmied shutters, hastily written timelines, twins in sheetless cots.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.07.15 21:39

Nuala wrote:If MM died earlier in the week, they had time to achieve more than the considerable amount that was achieved in 90 minutes in the Stuart Lubbock case, they had days to do it.
Really? You've lost me there, Nuala. What more, precisely, could they have done?  (if they did, that is)

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 12.07.15 21:42

@ Tony Bennett

So you agree that the dates and times supplied for:


(a) the playground photo (Gerry twirling Madeleine) (Wednesday 2 May) and

(b) Madeleine outside the Wendy house (Wednesday 2 May at 5.15pm precisely)

were supplied to the PJ (or to D C Martin) by the McCann Team and not inserted by Albym?

If I may, I'll answer that, and will try not to confuse the issue as I clearly did last time.

Those photos are in the PJ files so were given to the PJ on the discs supplied by GM and MW. The camera given to DC Martin was the one belonging to the Foster family. The Foster family photos aren't in the PJ files so we can exclude those. The only photos from the McCanns are those supplied direct to the PJ on discs by GM and MW, so that's where the photos you're referring to came from.

According to this website:

http://truthformadeleine.com/the-photos/the-playground/

The playground photo was also released by Sky News, who reported it was taken the day before MM was "abducted", so I think it's fairly safe to say that date came from TM.

Would you agree with me that if TM released the playground photo to Sky News saying it was taken on 2nd May, the date of that photo on the disc given to the PJ would also be 2nd May?

Otherwise there would have been a discrepancy that the PJ would have noticed straight away.

Would that be a fair statement?

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 12.07.15 22:00

@ Tony Bennett

Really? You've lost me there, Nuala. What more, precisely, could they have done?  (if they did, that is)

I'm sorry, I couldn't have made myself clear.

The point I was making was that in the Stuart Lubbock case, you said and indeed listed, the considerable amount done to transform the crime scene in 90 minutes.

If MM died earlier in the week, say 30th April, the McCanns had three whole days to plan and execute a credible "abduction" and yet the shutters weren't jemmied, there was no sign of a break in, the twins were in cots without sheets, a couple of timelines had been scribbled on MM's sticker book covers, the bed where MM was supposedly abducted from was laid out in a way that obviously a child hadn't been abducted from it.

I would have expected in three days that at least the shutters would would show some signs of damage and the bed arranged properly.  Some signs of a break in, removing some of their possessions to make it look like someone had broken in and stolen some stuff and then also abducted MM?

Instead, with three days to plan an "abduction" they did nothing credible at all.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Mo on 12.07.15 22:04

I'm just wondering if the date and time stamp weren't set on the Mccanns camera as with the Foster family camera - maybe the PJ relied on the Mccanns telling them which days the pictures were taken?

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Nuala on 12.07.15 22:24

@ Tony Bennett

I've just realised I'm bombarding you with posts.

Apologies for that, I didn't mean to.
I'm not picking on you, it's just there's so much to discuss and I got a bit carried away smilie

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by BlueBag on 12.07.15 22:43

Nuala wrote:The point I was making was that in the Stuart Lubbock case, you said and indeed listed, the considerable amount done to transform the crime scene in 90 minutes.

Interesting.

Do you follow Tony?
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.07.15 23:41

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

Really? You've lost me there, Nuala. What more, precisely, could they have done?  (if they did, that is)

I'm sorry, I couldn't have made myself clear.

No, you did make yourself clear, but I was asking you specifically, given that you didn't think the McCanns did very well with an alleged abduction hoax, what MORE you think they could have done (i.e. to convince people that Madeleine had been abducted). It was a genuine question. To put it another way, Nuala, if you had been in the same situation, and needed to promote a hoax abduction, what more could you have done than the McCanns did (if that is what they did)  

The point I was making was that in the Stuart Lubbock case, you said and indeed listed, the considerable amount done to transform the crime scene in 90 minutes.

If MM died earlier in the week, say 30th April, the McCanns had three whole days to plan and execute a credible "abduction" and yet the shutters weren't jemmied, there was no sign of a break in, the twins were in cots without sheets, a couple of timelines had been scribbled on MM's sticker book covers, the bed where MM was supposedly abducted from was laid out in a way that obviously a child hadn't been abducted from it.

I would have expected in three days that at least the shutters would would show some signs of damage and the bed arranged properly.  Some signs of a break in, removing some of their possessions to make it look like someone had broken in and stolen some stuff and then also abducted MM?

Instead, with three days to plan an "abduction" they did nothing credible at all.

Right, you say that, but the fact remains that, whatever e.g. the government, the security services and the mass media may have done to assist the McCanns one way or another since 3 May, the abduction account as told by the McCanns and the Tapas 7 has lasted for over 8 years and continues to lodge deep in the minds of much of the British public.

Let me just list what the McCanns set before us all (or had available to them), to help us to understand that an abduction had taken place:

1. An explanation for the 'checking' regime, which they say was maintained all week
2. An account (by Mrs Fenn) of a child crying. Mrs Fenn insisted it was a child who had reached its third birthday, you could tell by the voice (1)
3. The 'Last Photo' - proof she was alive at 2.29pm on 3 May
4. Philip Edmonds' photo of his boys playing on 3 May with Madeleine in the background
5. The 'high tea' at 5.30pm, with Cat Baker and Charlotte Pennington in attendance
6. David Payne seeing all the children in the McCanns' apartment looking happy and 'angelic'
7. Kate remembering she'd removed the hair bead from Madeleine's hair when she bather her that night (the hair bead in the Last Photo) 
8. Matt Oldfield's check at 9pm - all OK
9. Gerry McCann's check at 9.05pm to 9.10pm - all OK
10. Matt Oldfield's check at 9.30pm - all OK, but, but, door open 50 degrees, hmmm, maybe a bit more light coming in, hmmm, could be the window was open, hmmm, light coming in 'from the front', hmmm again and oh dear, didn't actually see Madeleine, hmmm, hmmm - abductor might have come in and gone between 9.10pm and 9.30pm     
11. Madeleine gone - alarm raised
The Crime Scene
12. Shutters partly raised
13. Window partly raised - Kate's fingerprints on window-frame
14. 'The shutters and windows were closed all week' - to keep out the heat
15. Curtains partly open - 'whooshed by the wind' 
16. Madeleine's bed sheet turned back which suggests she had been removed
17. Pink blanket
18. Cuddle Cat, left by the abductor just by the pillow 'where it normal is when Maddie is sleeping' [Truth of the Lie] 
19. Jane Tanner with ready-made abductor based on Wojcek Krokowski
20. Nuno Lourenco lined up to speak to police Saturday morning and describe bloke looking like Wojeck Krokowski who tried to kidnap his child.

Twenty elements - and more that I haven't mentioned - quite enough to keep the story going for 8 years and occupy Operation Grange for half that time pursuing the remit of investigating 'the' abduction.

Just supposing for a moment that this was not an abduction but that there was a planned abduction hoax, surely all the above elements were a pretty fair attempt at a 'cover story', weren't they?   



     

   



    

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Verdi on 13.07.15 0:05

Nuala wrote:@ Tony Bennett

I've just realised I'm bombarding you with posts.

Apologies for that, I didn't mean to.
I'm not picking on you, it's just there's so much to discuss and I got a bit carried away smilie
Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.

For example, on the subject of the photographs, I've spent time looking at the subject of the footage analyzed by the Hampshire constabulary but I always end with the same conclusion.  I haven't time at the moment to go into much detail but if you compare the witness statement of Stuart William Martin of Hampshire constabulary with the detail of the Fosters assistance, the two together do not accord with your claim.  Correct me if I'm wrong, the Fosters had video footage available for examination, I don't recall any mention of digital camera stills.  The Hampshire police were asked to visit the Fosters home to analyze the footage as they didn't have the expertise, if your view is correct - why was digital camera equipment sent to Stuart Martin rather than analyzed by the officer that was detailed to visit the fosters home?  Also, I believe the digital camera equipment was sent by Leicester constabulary to Stuart Martin - why would the Fosters who live in Hampshire send their camera equipment to Leicester police only for them to send back to Hampshire for analysis?

Something doesn't add up here.  Hope this makes sense, I'm rushing.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Tony Bennett on 13.07.15 0:14

Verdi wrote:
Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.
I had (and still have) no idea who Nuala is, having never, if memory serves, having come across her previously, but again IIRC someone on a forum or on FB somewhere said recently that Nuala was originally a very forceful 'pro-McCann' - but somewhere along the line changed to being a McCann-doubter.

I hope I have got that right, sincere apologies if I haven't

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 13.07.15 0:43

I don't think it really matters who Nuala is no more than who I am, with all due respect to the likes of Tony and PeterMac.

There is a Nuala that regularly comments on textUSA's blog. If it is the same person I'm sure she'll? confirm.

@Verdi

I'm surprised and intrigued about what you say about the Fosters and Hampshire Police. It seems pretty simple and straight forward once you make yourself through the "treacle" that is the PJ files.

1, Copy of email sent by LP to HP http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA3_8/03_volume_III_o_apenso_VIII_Page_542.jpg LP spoke to Mr Foster that morning (8th May) and LP requested local HP to go to his house after 15:15 PM 8th May.

2, The local PC Barham goes to the house, reviews and collects the Sony camcorder and Olympus camera and delivers them to DC Martin's own home at 21:00 PM the same evening. 

3, at 8:30 AM May 9th DC Martin delivers the Sony camcorder to the Hampshire imaging unit, Netley. He doesn't examine that himself and I don't know of anything else in the files about the imaging unit or Netley?

The rest we've been through.

Not for the first time in this thread I'm confused Verdi!
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Guest on 13.07.15 7:37

Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.
I had (and still have) no idea who Nuala is, having never, if memory serves, having come across her previously, but again IIRC someone on a forum or on FB somewhere said recently that Nuala was originally a very forceful 'pro-McCann' - but somewhere along the line changed to being a McCann-doubter.

I hope I have got that right, sincere apologies if I haven't
See jeanmonroe's posts on page 56 of the Steve Marsden thread.



[Nuala is not the other Nuala who used to support the McCanns - from the Wayback thread:

Nuala @ jeanmonroe

So that's NOT you, the 'Nuala', who 'began as their (McCanns') supporter,

No, that's not me.

who left that 'comment' then?


No idea, and neither do I care.  - Mod.]
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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by PeterMac on 13.07.15 9:17

Whoever it is would do well to read the Last Photo thread, where most of the questions have been answered.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by plebgate on 13.07.15 9:25

PeterMac wrote:Whoever it is would do well to read the Last Photo thread, where most of the questions have been answered.
What a very sensible idea.



[ Here is the main, recent, 'Last Photo' thread:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3645p1050-further-analysis-of-the-last-photo

There are, however, 1,054 posts on it to wade through.

To summarise this 106-page thread, the balance of opinion was that there was very good evidence that the 'Last Photo' was not photoshopped at all, but taken on Sunday 29 April 2007 with the metadata subsequently changed to read '2.29pm, 3rd May 2007'  - Mod. ]

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by PeterMac on 13.07.15 10:54

plebgate wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Whoever it is would do well to read the Last Photo thread, where most of the questions have been answered.
What a very sensible idea.
[ Here is the main, recent, 'Last Photo' thread:
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3645p1050-further-analysis-of-the-last-photo
There are, however, 1,054 posts on it to wade through.

To summarise this 106-page thread, the balance of opinion was that there was very good evidence that the 'Last Photo' was not photoshopped at all, but taken on Sunday 29 April 2007 with the metadata subsequently changed to read '2.29pm, 3rd May 2007'  - Mod. ]
Quite.
And we believe we can on the balance of probabilities identify the person who did it, the date they did it, the person who then carried it back to PdL and handed it to Mitchell, who released it to the AFP with all the Mitchell stuff about "look at the time" . . .  meaning Look at the date.

If (and only if) that is correct he becomes part of a conspiracy, way beyond being just a very stupid pink spokes-thing.

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Re: Was the "Last Photo" taken on the FIRST Day?

Post by Richard IV on 13.07.15 12:41

Ladyinred wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Nuala, were you/are you actively involved with this case in an official capacity?  A simple yes or no would suffice if you feel inclined to reply.  My reason for asking is that you speak with some authority and I don't want to waste my time researching different aspects of the case if you can supply the answers.
I had (and still have) no idea who Nuala is, having never, if memory serves, having come across her previously, but again IIRC someone on a forum or on FB somewhere said recently that Nuala was originally a very forceful 'pro-McCann' - but somewhere along the line changed to being a McCann-doubter.

I hope I have got that right, sincere apologies if I haven't
See jeanmonroe's posts on page 56 of the Steve Marsden thread.



[Nuala is not the other Nuala who used to support the McCanns - from the Wayback thread:

Nuala @ jeanmonroe

So that's NOT you, the 'Nuala', who 'began as their (McCanns') supporter,

No, that's not me.

who left that 'comment' then?


No idea, and neither do I care.  - Mod.]




And of course it goes without saying you are not the Nuala that KM phoned at 8,56am on Friday 4th May 2007.


"8.50.27 am Gerry calls Angela Morado, UK consulate (4.47 minutes)

8.51.42 am Kate calls ... (0 seconds) SMS

8.52.41 am Kate calls Jon Corner (73 seconds)

8.56.15 am Kate calls Nuala (47 seconds)

8.57.17 am Jill mob calls Kate (0 seconds) SMS

9.01.55 am ... calls Gerry (1.46 minutes)

9.04.16 am ... calls Gerry (1.28 minutes)


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm
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