The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Mm11

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Regist10

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Page 22 of 41 Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23 ... 31 ... 41  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by HKP on 21.06.15 11:15

Aiyoyo, you make a good point, you would have thought that a holding page/statement would have been inserted to buy some time but no they've wooshed the lot. It does raise suspicions and also questions their integrity.

@Tony point 3 I beg to differ (however that is for another day) Point 7 that's your opinion (although wrong) and you're entitled to it.
Anonymous
HKP
Guest


Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 11:29

Does anyone have a screenshot of the 30th April 2007 www.ceop.gov.uk page that has also been deleted?

I didn't see that one myself.

It may change my view.

It had news on it for October 2007?
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by LG on 21.06.15 11:33

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Screen18
avatar
LG

Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-08-02

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 11:36

WBM is perhaps screwed in October 2007 or CEOP reversed a page update.


This is 9th October.. There is news for 8th october
http://web.archive.org/web/20071009075912/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/

This is the 12th October... news for 8th October is missing, looks like the previous 2nd October page.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071012051850/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 11:38

@LG wrote:Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Screen18
I can'r read the full url... what is it please?
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by MRNOODLES on 21.06.15 11:53

So as a non techie I have to either trust either.

1.  The original search was really correct

or

2.  The Java Fairy had a brain fart and only messed up over the McCanns again.  (As Harry Hill says, 'What's the chances of that happening?)
MRNOODLES
MRNOODLES

Posts : 748
Join date : 2013-07-04

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by whatsupdoc on 21.06.15 12:14

Are some people saying that the mccann.html file found by the crawler on 30th April should have been moved to it's "proper" location when the next crawler came along?

Well , it's been 8 years and the file hasn't been touched till this week. WBM has said the file has been moved ...so it was a file!

cul8tr
whatsupdoc
whatsupdoc

Posts : 601
Join date : 2011-08-04

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 12:15

@BlueBag wrote:
@LG wrote:Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Screen18
I can'r read the full url... what is it please?

Does that url say

http://web.archive.org/web/20070430115803/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/

Or is it a redirect?

If it does then I think it means that the WBM was definitely broken in October 2007.

As some posters pointed out right at the beginning of this thread (should have paid attention).

All the now deleted CEOP pages had an archive date of 20070430 115803.. they were all saved in the same process (hover the cursor over all of them) including the mccan.html page.

I would not expect a genuine April archive to have October 2007 data in it.

So it seems WBM was working fine on April 30th (as was shown) but not in October.

I'd still like to see other examples though.
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by Joss on 21.06.15 12:15

News By Mark Raby Jan. 11, 2013 5:59 pm

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Wayback-machine

 

If you’re looking to get a flash back to when Newt Gingrich looked like he might be the next president, or you want to pretend that the City of Heroes community was still intact, or you just want something to help kill the time at work, the Wayback Machine is for you. It has been the definitive source of archived Internet content for years, and it just received a humongous update.

This week, the Wayback Machine jumped from an archive of 150 billion URLs to 240 billion. The massive data centers that process all of this content now hold more than five petabytes of information (that’s five million gigabytes).

It’s a pretty simple process — just enter a URL, and you will be presented with a list of all the different dates and times that the URL was archived. Click on one of those dates and you will go back in time, being presented with exactly what that website looked like back in the day. Among the items being highlighted with the newest update are full archives of the City of Heroes website, as well as Fortune City, Splinder, and tons of presidential election content.

The Wayback Machine, which is organized by a non-profit group called the Internet Archive, has origins dating back to 2005, although the data collection that allowed such an infrastructure to be created was started in 1996. Its design is specifically to be used for people wanting to look back at a website several months ago or earlier. It is not meant for people who want to see what was written on a site last week.

It has actually been used in legal cases, to point to claims or statements that were made on websites but were later removed. That shows just how reliable these digital archives are. It also emphasizes the point that once something is on the internet, it is as good as permanent, no matter whether or not it’s changed later on.

http://www.geek.com/news/wayback-machine-now-boasts-240-billion-with-a-b-urls-and-5pb-of-data-1535682/

____________________
Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 EdgarMitchell-320x276
Joss
Joss

Posts : 1960
Join date : 2011-09-19

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 21.06.15 12:24

Just catching up on a remarkable thread.

What puzzles me is why nothing has been reported in the MSM ?

This story seems to have substance, and WBM management have put their initial clarification, standing by their service, in the public domain. They subsequently claim there may have been a 'glitch', thus committing commercial suicide, and opening up a legal can of worms for previous cases.

Whatever angle you decide to take, this is news, and nothing sells papers like poor MBM.

Not libelous either...so why nothing in the press ?
Carrry On Doctor
Carrry On Doctor

Posts : 390
Join date : 2014-01-31

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 12:28

I think WBM could be used in legal cases... IF... the archived page contains it's own time stamp.

Like many BBC pages do, and newspapers... Date and time of article.

Or forum posts.

I think after what we've seen here a good lawyer could wriggle out of something based on the WBM timestamp.
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 12:37

@BlueBag wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
@LG wrote:Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Screen18
I can'r read the full url... what is it please?

Does that url say

http://web.archive.org/web/20070430115803/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/

Or is it a redirect?

If it does then I think it means that the WBM was definitely broken in October 2007.

As some posters pointed out right at the beginning of this thread (should have paid attention).

All the now deleted CEOP pages had an archive date of 20070430 115803.. they were all saved in the same process (hover the cursor over all of them) including the mccan.html page.

I would not expect a genuine April archive to have October 2007 data in it.

So it seems WBM was working fine on April 30th (as was shown) but not in October.

I'd still like to see other examples though.
I can see now that the URL is a REDIRECT to the 20071013 (13th October) folder.

Does anyone have a snapshot of the page in the 20070430 115803 folder?

If it can be shown that the april folder absolutely had october data it it then that does it for me.

I haven't seen that yet.
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by HKP on 21.06.15 12:38

@BB the filename and timestamp are axactky the same, read further back the thread for the Wayback FAQ's it points out this is important (datestamp & filename the same)
Anonymous
HKP
Guest


Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 12:40

HKP wrote:@BB the filename and timestamp are axactky the same, read further back the thread for the Wayback FAQ's it points out this is important (datestamp & filename the same)

There should have been an entry in the April 30th folder for that page with october data on it.

Was there?
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by aiyoyo on 21.06.15 12:41

@BlueBag wrote:WBM have to demonstrate that CEOP was not the only page with a problem.

If they can't do that I cry foul.

The significant is, if they do demonstrate that CEOP is not the only one erroneously archived, it would mean Archive.Org has brought itself into disrepute that could raise issue of their liability. 

All past court cases that used their info for successful convictions are now brought into question.  Effectively if they were to admit now to a wider scale *error* they would be liable to all sorts I would imagine.

They should have stated that from the outset from the very first received enquiry, without the need for revolving replies and without having to whooshed records that made them look suspicious.  The info they got given by HDH on the Mccanns case and its implication should have no bearing whatsoever on their answer one way or another.  That is a different and separate matter altogether. 

 If it was indeed a * glitch* it is just that, does not matter about anything else, implication or otherwise of anything or something else should not be their concern. They only concern should be the "accuracy" of their archive and nothing else.  If it is a genuine case of *error* - software setup or glitch - acknowledging the mistake should suffice, simple as.  

It may well be a genuine case of *error* but they are handling it very badly.
aiyoyo
aiyoyo

Posts : 9610
Join date : 2009-11-28

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by Guest on 21.06.15 12:50

[quote="BlueBag"]I think WBM [u]could[/u] be used in legal cases... IF... the archived page contains it's own time stamp.

Like many BBC pages do, and newspapers... Date and time of article.

Or forum posts.

I think after what we've seen here a good lawyer could wriggle out of something based on the WBM timestamp.[/quote]

============================

Any lawyer

Bang goes WBM's unblemished record

If I were CB, I'd be on that bike to Scotland with KH
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 12:54

@aiyoyo wrote:
All past court cases that relied on their info for successful convictions are now brought into question.
Not if date and time were embedded in the page contents itself. The WBM timestamp becomes secondary.
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by worriedmum on 21.06.15 12:57

Coming to this (rather bewildering) topic  a bit late, I did wonder if it is possible that the date 30 April covers the earliest parameter of the screen grab and therefore anything between that date and the end parameter date  is included. So, it doesn't actually mean it was written on that date?
worriedmum
worriedmum

Posts : 2015
Join date : 2012-01-17

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by HKP on 21.06.15 12:58

@BB not sure I know what you mean. There's not a file in that folder for October(as far as we know) but the controversy is over links on the page to October stories. As far as can be ascertained a crawl was made on 30/04 and it found what it found, its then a case of whether some data 'refreshes' at a future date, the FAQs say it does.
Anonymous
HKP
Guest


Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 13:16

HKP wrote:@BB not sure I know what you mean. There's not a file in that folder for October(as far as we know) but the controversy is over links on the page to October stories. As far as can be ascertained a crawl was made on 30/04 and it found what it found, its then a case of whether some data 'refreshes' at a future date, the FAQs say it does.

None of the following are redirects:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070706183353/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/mccann.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20070708201551/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/mccann.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20070713232146/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/mccann.html



That's the same page archived on three different days in three different WBM folders.

The URL remains the same when you open the page.

If there WAS a folder and file:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070430115803/http://www.ceop.gov.uk


..that had a page with October data news release on it that would convince me that the WBM was broken in October and put the the October pages in a april folder.

My question is for anyone who was in before the pages were deleted, is this the case?
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by LG on 21.06.15 13:36

@ BlueBag - sorry that was my mistake - I did post both (one above the other) way back (no pun intended) on this thread.

Whilst here, does anyone know of another archive other than Way Back?

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Screen21
avatar
LG

Posts : 52
Join date : 2014-08-02

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by sar on 21.06.15 13:40

@BlueBag wrote:
@whatsupdoc wrote:
@cloak'ndagger wrote:I can vouch for Syn.. .she may not be saying what we want to hear but she is an expert in the technological field.

I'll second that. I know of syn0nymph from Twitter.

I don't think we should be knocking newcomers either.
History shows we should be highly suspicious of new comers.

Especially hot single issue ones come to "correct" us.
+1 BB
avatar
sar

Posts : 1162
Join date : 2013-09-11

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by sar on 21.06.15 13:41

@whatsupdoc wrote:Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I've been checking the mccann.html files on WBM and if you try 30th April and the 1st May links including an * after the date/time stamp you get the calendar and can see the 30th and the 1st snapshot dates, Clicking on either will bring up a pic of Madeleine but the date on the top has been changed to 13th May.

The link for YouTube around midday on the 30th April is still there and showing 30th April when the snapshot is clicked on. All working, no problems.

So other sites such as YouTube are working on 30th April around 1200 on WBM ...just the mccann.html file causing a problem....AFAIK

I don't think a glitch covers an event such as making a file entry days before it has supposedly occured.
+1 whatsupdoc
avatar
sar

Posts : 1162
Join date : 2013-09-11

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by Doug D on 21.06.15 13:53

BlueBag,
 
Don’t know if LG’s latest  picture helps you, but a link to HideHo’s screengrabs here:
 
http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/HiDeHo-communication-with-Wayback-Machine-1-2326536.html
 
However, I suspect you want the http line above what this shows.
 
Don’t know if someone can contact Steve Marsden on FB to see if he has got fuller screenshots.
 
………………………………………………………
 
Not new information as such and don’t know if it’s of any use to anyone but from the WBM CEOP capture of 27/4/07 the forward blue arrow link has been broken, although the whooshed capture of 30th still flashes up. The page just gets stuck on 27th. Trying to go both ways the ‘http’ line flashes for the 30th but then just reverts.
 
https://web.archive.org/web/20070427113509/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/
 
Coming back the other way from 14/5/07 doesn’t seem to be a problem. The 30/4 date still flashes up, but just takes you to 27th April.
 
Similarly with the ‘index’ site:
 
https://web.archive.org/web/20070512185949/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/index.asp
 
the back arrow flashes up with the 30/4 date, the ‘https:’ line at the top looks for the 30/4 then drops back to 12th May and won’t work going backwards, just drops you back to 12/5.
Going forwards, the 8th April is there, the 30th April flashes on the blue forward arrow, it looks for 30th April on https: line , then jumps to 12th May.
 
We know the entries for the 30th have been whooshed, but is there any reason for the breaks in these arrow paths, other than a poor whooshing job at WBM?
avatar
Doug D

Posts : 2997
Join date : 2013-12-03

Back to top Go down

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Empty Re: Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007"

Post by BlueBag on 21.06.15 13:53

@LG wrote:@ BlueBag - sorry that was my mistake - I did post both (one above the other) way back (no pun intended) on this thread.

Whilst here, does anyone know of another archive other than Way Back?

Claim by 'Stevo' - "CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007" - Page 22 Screen21
OK that does it for me.

I think WMB was broken in October 2007 and put October pages in an April folder.

The most likely explanation is that the mccan.html was saved in October in the same process as the above... specifically in a process that gave the timestamp as 2007/04/30 11:58:03 - all the CEOP pages have this timestamp.

And as a programmer of 34 years standing that doesn't really surprise me.

Although I would like to see other examples because there must be some.

Now.. why was I so hard on Nuala and syn? Because they were clouding the issue with rubbish.
BlueBag
BlueBag

Posts : 5450
Join date : 2014-06-06

Back to top Go down

Page 22 of 41 Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23 ... 31 ... 41  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum