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Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.15 10:33

@Knitted wrote:I suspect most people, if you were to mention "Police Dogs and McCanns" in the same context, will think of: (i) The high-quality footage of last year's digs around PdL, (which some camps will see as a 'jolly', whilst others will see it as an earnest attempt to search...it matters not), & more importantly (ii) Four trained dogs with their uniformed handlers bounding around freely all week and finding.... Errm, what was it now?...  an old sock? ("alerting to clothing"), a rabbit bone?, ("'alerting to death'").... Or was it they found nothing?

True.
Footage of dogs working alongside Police in search and dig operations invariably leaves a strong lasting impression on people. The immediate impact that assaults people's sense is poignant - that police are searching for the body.

You don't engage dogs and deploy that kind of resources, dig equipment and the whole lot of outfits, if looking for an abductor or an alive child.

Dogs positive markings on items McCanns is the strongest circumstantial evidence that someone died in the Mcs holiday apt, and since there's no history of death priorly, the conclusion anyone will draw from that is rather obvious.  
Can we hope that JK will mention that doubters believe in the dogs alerts?
She needn't have to mention the Mcs' reaction to the dogs alerts, or their stance about dogs.  She could cite recent successfully prosecuted cases and also show footage of dogs in OG's search operation to make the doubters' point that police have implicit faith in the dogs (ditto doubters).
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.15 10:42

@Verdi wrote:lj today @ 7:22pm

"To name some professionals that can't string a sentence together:

Kate Healy, Rachel, Fiona, her mom and her husband, David, Jane, oh let's just say the Tapas 9."

Perfect example!  The lot put together couldn't produce one coherent sentence.


That's because they all were lying. They couldn't process what best to fabricate to cover their backs quick enough, hence the stammer, stutter,mumble,fumble, falter, splutter littering their depositions.

Kate was the most atrocious one, and got progressively better when she gained exposure and when she had a crotch, tight  next to her to clutch to steady her nerves...
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 27.04.15 11:46

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Verdi wrote:lj today @ 7:22pm

"To name some professionals that can't string a sentence together:

Kate Healy, Rachel, Fiona, her mom and her husband, David, Jane, oh let's just say the Tapas 9."

Perfect example!  The lot put together couldn't produce one coherent sentence.


That's because they all were lying. They couldn't process what best to fabricate to cover their backs quick enough, hence the stammer, stutter,mumble,fumble, falter, splutter littering their depositions.

Kate was the most atrocious one, and got progressively better when she gained exposure and when she had a crotch, tight  next to her to clutch to steady her nerves...
Oh my and what a clutch to beheld - sorry behold.

My all time favourite is David Payne's rogatory tea and biscuit chit chat in April 2008.  If you condense the whole lot into one meaningful interview, a medium sized paragraph would be the result.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by jeanmonroe on 27.04.15 12:05

JT's INTELLIGENT 'reply':

“Yeah, no, yeah, so I don’t know.”

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by HelenMeg on 27.04.15 12:19

They do love their yeah, no, yeah, no  !!- here's a small contribution from Matt in his rog interview statement:


4078 "And you run, do you often run?"

 Reply "Erm, no, I don't like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it's a bit warmer and it's not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it's kind of Californian".

 4078 "In your own mind, yeah".

 

Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she's quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it's sort of unusual and you're sort of exploring a bit".

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 27.04.15 12:31

@HelenMeg wrote:They do love their yeah, no, yeah, no  !!- here's a small contribution from Matt in his rog interview statement:


4078 "And you run, do you often run?"

 Reply "Erm, no, I don't like it, but I quite like it on holiday when it's a bit warmer and it's not so bad on your joints and I quite like running on the beach, because it feels quite sort of Bay Watch and it's kind of Californian".

 4078 "In your own mind, yeah".

 

Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I woke up. But, erm, yeah, but, erm, no, she's quite a good runner and I quite enjoy it every now and again, but, if it's sort of unusual and you're sort of exploring a bit".
She's a good runner alright.....

shark   .....run away! run away!

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by jeanmonroe on 27.04.15 13:01

"Her film appears to be focusing on the fact that there is, as she says herself, ‘a huge community of doubters' – and I think the film intends to be about who those people are .................."

The film will NOT be about Madeleine, nor about the case, but will focus on the people who DOUBT the OFFICIAL 'line'."
------------------------------------------------------

She'll certainly be 'interested' in seeking out these two 'people/doubters' then.

A)  " Err in my opinion, you know, IF this was, IF there WAS any foul play bestowed on THEM" (McCanns)

B)   "............you know because again this is something that we've talked about, you know, IF she (Madeleine) 'was abducted'  you know, sorry...."

A* = RUSSELL JAMES O'BRIEN, SIGNED rogatory interview STATEMENT 08/04/2008

and

B* = DAVID PAYNE, SIGNED rogatory interview STATEMENT 11/04/2008

Oh dear, the things 'doubters' have said.........on 'record'!

eta: BOTH 'statements' recorded almost a year AFTER the erm, 'event' of May 3rd, 2007.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by PeterMac on 27.04.15 14:05

@jeanmonroe wrote:"Her film appears to be focusing on the fact that there is, as she says herself, ‘a huge community of doubters' – and I think the film intends to be about who those people are .................."
The film will NOT be about Madeleine, nor about the case, but will focus on the people who DOUBT the OFFICIAL 'line'."

A very good reason to stay well clear of it.   As shall I.
TB's trial was NOTHING to do with Madeleine. It was about an obscure legal nicety involving breach of an undertaking.
Only by chance did Madeleine's alleged abduction get mentioned, 3 times incidentally, and only by chance and quick-wittedness was TB able to ask his killer question
and to force the hapless Mrs Martorell to admit, on the record, and under oath in the High Court of England that
THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF ABDUCTION.
(I bet Adam Tudor had a serious word with her afterwards.  They could have avoided that embarrassment by using a different word, and the moment would have passed)

The trial against Dr Amaral is nothing to do with Madeleine.
It was allegedly about hurt feelings of the parents (For God's Sake !!)

And this film will be nothing to do with Madeleine.
Although she says she wants it to be balanced, it is extremely unlikely that the vicious and unlawful threats made against, for example, the late Brenda Leyland will be included
nor the foul language routinely used by some of those who unconditionally support the McCann's line - (whichever one that is on that day of course)

The problem will be that all she had to find is one person who makes one small factual error on the record, or says something they later realise might have been better worded, and the damage will be done.
The gibbering of the Tapas group will not be mentioned.
The changes of story by the McCanns and others will not be mentioned.

And if anyone tries to do so, the comments will be ruthless edited out.
She writes for the Grauniad !  Which tells you all you news to know about balance.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Guest on 27.04.15 14:47

@PeterMac wrote:
She writes for the Grauniad !  Which tells you all you news to know about balance.

Quite. She's supposed to be the journalist. Why doesn't she study the case and report what her supposedly well honed investigative senses are telling her, rather than casting around for some lamb to slaughter?
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by HelenMeg on 27.04.15 15:08

Hear Hear friends

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 27.04.15 16:17

@Verdi wrote:Mark Willis Today @ 2:28 pm

"I was a journalist for 12 years."

That explains a lot!  Good to have another insider on board to tell it like it is.
Let's put it this way, a prerequisite for veracity was not in the job description!  big grin
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 27.04.15 16:30

@PeterMac wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:"Her film appears to be focusing on the fact that there is, as she says herself, ‘a huge community of doubters' – and I think the film intends to be about who those people are .................."
The film will NOT be about Madeleine, nor about the case, but will focus on the people who DOUBT the OFFICIAL 'line'."

A very good reason to stay well clear of it.   As shall I.
TB's trial was NOTHING to do with Madeleine. It was about an obscure legal nicety involving breach of an undertaking.
Only by chance did Madeleine's alleged abduction get mentioned, 3 times incidentally, and only by chance and quick-wittedness was TB able to ask his killer question
and to force the hapless Mrs Martorell to admit, on the record, and under oath in the High Court of England that
THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF ABDUCTION.
(I bet Adam Tudor had a serious word with her afterwards.  They could have avoided that embarrassment by using a different word, and the moment would have passed)

The trial against Dr Amaral is nothing to do with Madeleine.
It was allegedly about hurt feelings of the parents (For God's Sake !!)

And this film will be nothing to do with Madeleine.
Although she says she wants it to be balanced, it is extremely unlikely that the vicious and unlawful threats made against, for example, the late Brenda Leyland will be included
nor the foul language routinely used by some of those who unconditionally support the McCann's line - (whichever one that is on that day of course)

The problem will be that all she had to find is one person who makes one small factual error on the record, or says something they later realise might have been better worded, and the damage will be done.
The gibbering of the Tapas group will not be mentioned.
The changes of story by the McCanns and others will not be mentioned.

And if anyone tries to do so, the comments will be ruthless edited out.
She writes for the Grauniad !  Which tells you all you news to know about balance.
Spot on. One's remit with some publishers was the usual "publish and be damned", which translated as: "even if there isn't one single thing a person says that you can twist, well, just make up something attributively invidious, anyway; job done"
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.15 19:18

@Mark Willis wrote:Spot on. One's remit with some publishers was the usual "publish and be damned", which translated as: "even if there isn't one single thing a person says that you can twist, well, just make up something attributively invidious, anyway; job done"

If she was given this assignment then yes, get it done any old how, just to get your boss off your back. But she wasn't given this, rather she initiates this, as in asked to do it.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by PeterMac on 27.04.15 19:41

@aiyoyo wrote:
If she was given this assignment then yes, get it done any old how, just to get your boss off your back.  But she wasn't given this, rather she initiates this, as in asked to do it.
In which case it will be interesting to see if she goes ahead.
I have contacted her and have expressed some reservations about the remit of what she is doing.
If she is truly going to do a balanced piece, then one might be persuaded to contribute, but 'editorial privilege' is likely to emasculate any useful message.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.15 20:26

@PeterMac wrote:In which case it will be interesting to see if she goes ahead.
I have contacted her and have expressed some reservations about the remit of what she is doing.
If she is truly going to do a balanced piece, then one might be persuaded to contribute, but 'editorial privilege' is likely to emasculate any useful message.

She must have seen RH's videos if that is the catalyst for her film.
Did she reveal what her remit is ?
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 28.04.15 8:30

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Mark Willis wrote:Spot on. One's remit with some publishers was the usual "publish and be damned", which translated as: "even if there isn't one single thing a person says that you can twist, well, just make up something attributively invidious, anyway; job done"

If she was given this assignment then yes, get it done any old how, just to get your boss off your back.  But she wasn't given this, rather she initiates this, as in asked to do it.
As far as we know, or to think.
I still smell a McRat.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.04.15 8:41

@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:If she was given this assignment then yes, get it done any old how, just to get your boss off your back.  But she wasn't given this, rather she initiates this, as in asked to do it.
In which case it will be interesting to see if she goes ahead.

I have contacted her and have expressed some reservations about the remit of what she is doing.

If she is truly going to do a balanced piece, then one might be persuaded to contribute, but 'editorial privilege' is likely to emasculate any useful message.
Just a reminder of Jenny Kleeman's original e-mail to Richard Hall, which was about mid-March, I think, and which is in the public domain as he reproduced it on screen at his talks:

QUOTE

I'm a freelance journalist. I'm making a film for the Guardian's website about the growing number of people who believe the mainstream media isn't asking the right questions about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Time and again, I've been referred to your documentaries on the subject, which I've found intriguing.

I read with interest that you have an new documentary coming out, as well as a forthcoming speaking tour.


I'd value the opportunity to interview you and see you in action at one of your talks in late March or early April.

Is there a telephone number I could reach you on to discuss this? Or an email address? I'm [e-mail address withheld] nd my website is
www.jennykleeman.com.

Best wishes

Jenny Kleeman


UNQUOTE


If nothing else, Kleeman pays a 'rich' tribute to the popularity and success of 'The True Story of Madeleine McCann', which by now has had over one million views, still climbing, on YouTube alone, at well over 1,000 a day.

And 'Phantoms' has had around 20,000 views already in less than 2 weeks. Kleeman cannot now make this film without giving a 'plug' for Richard's documentaries

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aquila on 28.04.15 8:48

@Mark Willis wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Mark Willis wrote:Spot on. One's remit with some publishers was the usual "publish and be damned", which translated as: "even if there isn't one single thing a person says that you can twist, well, just make up something attributively invidious, anyway; job done"

If she was given this assignment then yes, get it done any old how, just to get your boss off your back.  But she wasn't given this, rather she initiates this, as in asked to do it.
As far as we know, or to think.
I still smell a McRat.
It's patently obvious that no-one in the mainstream media will do anything to upset the official line.

The story now is about 'trolls' and it's a nice little earner. It has nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance of course. It's a good marketing ploy. The trend in UK media is to evoke dissent/outrage/immediate opinion from scanning a half-arsed report with a provocative headline that bears a tenuous relationship with the actual content of the article and in the case of Madeleine's disappearance it's never going to stray from the official line.

It's all grist to the mill.

There isn't a story so the story is about trolls. Poulton's production (if it ever sees the light of day) will be no different.

Don't trust journalists.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by plebgate on 28.04.15 8:55

I don't trust journalists but Tony has made a good point in that she cannot make this docu. without mentioning/giving a plug to R. Hall's vids.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by jeanmonroe on 28.04.15 10:04

JK:

"Time and again, I've been referred to your documentaries (RH's) on the subject, which I've found intriguing."
---------------------------------------------------

Hmmmm.

CMOMM, 'evolved' from other 'sites', has been 'intrigued' by the CMOMM for 8 (EIGHT) YEARS!

Me, personally, from the very 'first reactions', by McCann's AND 'family/friends' in UK...................'jemmied, SMASHED, forced, broken' shutter.

Which the OC manager, and PJ, 'dismissed' within MINUTES of 'inspection'!

Now, WHY would the McCann's have LIED about 'that'?

I'm 'intrigued' to see if JK WILL 'go out on a limb' and actually ask 'proper' questions 'on the subject'!

The 'subject', presumeably, being the 'disappearance' of a 3 years old child, without a scintilla of 'evidence' of 'abduction', as stated by the child's own parents.

And every MSM 'outlet'............since.

Jonny come lately?

Jenny come lately?
----------------------------------------------------------------
" Err in my opinion, you know, IF this was, IF there WAS any foul play bestowed on THEM" (McCanns)

RUSSELL JAMES O'BRIEN, (holiday 'friend' of McCann's) SIGNED rogatory interview STATEMENT 08/04/2008

"............you know because again this is something that we've talked about, you know, IF she (Madeleine) 'was abducted'  you know, sorry...."

DAVID PAYNE, (holiday 'friend' of McCann's) SIGNED rogatory interview STATEMENT 11/04/2008

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 28.04.15 10:59

@Mark Willis wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Mark Willis wrote:Spot on. One's remit with some publishers was the usual "publish and be damned", which translated as: "even if there isn't one single thing a person says that you can twist, well, just make up something attributively invidious, anyway; job done"

If she was given this assignment then yes, get it done any old how, just to get your boss off your back.  But she wasn't given this, rather she initiates this, as in asked to do it.
As far as we know, or to think.
I still smell a McRat.

The probability of a balanced piece or otherwise will depend on what the remit is.
It depends also if editorial censorship/emasculation is going to leave it devoid of any useful message.
She is a freelance journalist. so probably not subject to the same rules as full time staff of having to observe internal policies / official line.

It's predictable she will not produce a piece slanted against the odious pair having to be mindful of the litigatious pair. However, she will have to plug RH's videos if she's going to use data from there.

You'd think freelancer has more control over their work. If she does not like the piece post editorial emasculation she can always not release it.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 28.04.15 11:27

@Richard D. Hall wrote:

At the Nottingham lecture where Kleeman showed up outside with a cameraman, I was the last person out of the building because I take down the set and the stall and load it into the van when everyone has gone.  When I drove out of the venue she was still at the entrance with the cameraman making it clear she wanted me on camera - after refusing to agree to my terms.

In that case, you can make it known to her in advance --- that in the event should you find her showing footage of you and/or using your materials in the wrong way and/or for all the wrong reasons, you won't take kindly to her action, since she has neither sought your permission nor have you granted it.

That probably won't stop her (from anything).... but she can't deny she hasn't been cautioned.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 28.04.15 12:32

If an advertising agency is contracted to up Tescos profile by publicizing their new range of bio fruit 'n veg, they aint going to be over impressed if said agency deliver a promo for tins of home brew baked beans are they?

Even freelance professionals have a contractual obligation, otherwise there would be total anarchy.  The reason maybe so many people who have something to shout about use the internet as their primary source of communication.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 28.04.15 14:25

@Verdi wrote:If an advertising agency is contracted to up Tescos profile by publicizing their new range of bio fruit 'n veg, they aint going to be over impressed if said agency deliver a promo for tins of home brew baked beans are they?

Even freelance professionals have a contractual obligation, otherwise there would be total anarchy.  The reason maybe so many people who have something to shout about use the internet as their primary source of communication.

Not saying freelancers don't have obligations to produce to standard, but not contractual, hence not subjected or obliged to toe the company line as full time staff would.
The final production has to be fit for purpose but they will have more bargaining leverage when it comes to decision making - to reject or to accept for it to be broadcast. They are not tasked to do the job, nor obliged to produce it by deadline, nor obliged to accept edited product after editorial privilege has been exercised. Rather freelancers sought the job and get paid piece meal basis I'd imagine. Say, if the post-edit product leaves it emasculated or bereft of the value that is missing the point of her work she can always withdraw it from broadcast.

The analogy you used is not comparable. Advertising agency contracted to supermarkets have contractual terms that they cannot breach or they will be fired. Contracted agency is akin to contracted worker. Free-lance, as the word implies is a free agent, not contracted, but ad hoc. Neither side is obliged to trade if they don't wish to. The company is free to buy or not buy her work, and equally free lancer is free to sell or not sell her work.

That said, I am apprehensive she will get much of a free hand in this matter, given the MSM track records where coverage of the McCanns case is concerned. Bear in mind that the probability of a balanced piece is also subjective, subject to her take on things, and what she terms as balanced.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 28.04.15 19:53

aiyoyo today @ 3:25 pm

I fully understand the meaning of freelance, as I know how it will differ from one profession/trade/job to another.  I would have thought where there is reputation at stake,  such as the press,  a working agreement (contract) would apply.  Still I've never worked in journalism so what do I know.

Thanks for putting me right although I can't really get my head around what you're saying.  I'm probably juggling between expectations from a normal freelance journalist and one that is encroaching on McCann spin territory.  The McCanns seem to be the exception to every rule.

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