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Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Guest on 26.04.15 10:44

TB, has JK asked you to feature in her film?
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Rufus T on 26.04.15 10:55

From Tony's original post - 

Finally, it is still, for a few more days, open to anyone, preferably someone from a professional background who can give a good, concise, polite and articulate summary of what they believe about the case and why, to talk to Jenny Kleeman on the record and explain their views. Contact can be made with her via the contact details on her website: http://www.jennykleeman.com/


I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Richard IV on 26.04.15 11:26

Gardeners, plumbers, electricians, artisans, etc need not apply.  Professionals carry credibility. Intelligence and/or the ability to pass exams is superior to talent in this country - about time this changed.

TB - It came across as a bit condescending, but we know what you mean. IMO it really just needs someone that can organise their thoughts and articulate them well. Just remembering that politicians can do that  titter

Professional

professional is a member of a profession. The term also describes the standards of education and training that prepare members of the profession with the particular knowledge and skills necessary to perform the role of that profession. In addition, most professionals are subject to strict codes of conduct enshrining rigorous ethical and moral obligations. Professional standards of practice and ethics for a particular field are typically agreed upon and maintained through widely recognizedprofessional associations. Some definitions of "professional" limit this term to those professions that serve some important aspect of public interest [1]and the general good of society.[2][3]
In some cultures, the term is used as shorthand to describe a particular social stratum of well-educated workers who enjoy considerable work autonomy and who are commonly engaged in creative and intellectually challenging work.[4][5][6][7]

Trades

In narrow usage, not all expertise is considered a profession. Although sometimes referred to as professions, occupations such as skilled construction and maintenance work are more generally thought of as trades or crafts. The completion of an apprenticeship is generally associated with skilled labor or trades such as carpenterelectricianmasonpainterplumberand other similar occupations. A related distinction would be that a professional does mainly mental work, as opposed to engaging in physical work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.04.15 11:42

@Rufus T wrote:From Tony's original post - 

Finally, it is still, for a few more days, open to anyone, preferably someone from a professional background who can give a good, concise, polite and articulate summary of what they believe about the case and why, to talk to Jenny Kleeman on the record and explain their views. Contact can be made with her via the contact details on her website: http://www.jennykleeman.com/

I do hope when you mention "preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.
Suppose you are a film-maker who genuinely wants to understand the point of view of the 'doubters' in a case where the doubters say they do not believe the highly-promoted official version of an event.

Suppose, further, that you wish to put on screen someone who can credibly articulate that 'doubting' view, so as to impress the viewers that the 'doubters' case has real merit.

Do you choose as your leading doubters, e.g. a current or past police officer, a current or past scenes-of-crime examiner, a current or past criminologist, a current or past body language or statement analyst, a current or past psychiatrist, psychologist, doctor, lawyer etc.?

Or do you choose someone unemployed, or someone employed as a Tesco cashier, McDonalds 'crew' member, postman or labourer?

It's as simple as that, no more, no less. So when you wrote: "I do hope when you mention 'preferably from a professional background' it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a 'professional' says", yes, that is what I meant.

However I will add that Jenny Kleeman specifically told me she is open to ANYONE, however humble their background, who can credibly articulate their reasons for doubt.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 26.04.15 12:08

@Rufus T wrote:From Tony's original post - 

Finally, it is still, for a few more days, open to anyone, preferably someone from a professional background who can give a good, concise, polite and articulate summary of what they believe about the case and why, to talk to Jenny Kleeman on the record and explain their views. Contact can be made with her via the contact details on her website: http://www.jennykleeman.com/


I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.
I totally agree with your issue, although I quite understand Tony's point, maybe 'professional' has been taken out of context? 

I was more grateful for his acknowledgment in a later post :

".... that though there were a small minority of nasty and spiteful McCann-doubters on the net (as the Sun pointed out by using Rosalinda Hutton as a prime example) they were not representative of the hundreds of professional, educated and indeed ordinary, decent, working or retired people whose views on the Madeleine McCann case have been guided by reason, analysis and judgment and not by prejudice or hate."

A considerable number of patronizing arrogant people seem to think that unless you're armed with a masters degree from a well respected university, your opinion is not worth knowing.  Totally ignoring the fact that the university of life is equally beneficial.  Add to that, the adjectives hurled about - fruitloop nutcase tin-foil hatter conspiraloon f-wit etc. - I find it thoroughly insulting.  Thanks to Tony for making it clear that we are all of equal value.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Rufus T on 26.04.15 12:13

Thank you for your prompt reply Tony,  I just like to be sure about what people are actually saying.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.04.15 12:20

Ladyinred wrote:TB, has JK asked you to feature in her film?
No.

I first e-mailed her on 2 April and inter alia I wrote this:

"If...there is even a small window within your remit to take a genuinely impartial look at all the evidence which does not support the abduction scenario, please allow me to put you in touch with intelligent, articulate, knowledgeable people who may be able to speak on the record about the evidence in the case and their views on it".

I made it crystal clear to her from the outset that for legal reasons I could not appear in her film.

However, as several members here can testify, I have been able to put Jenny Kleeman in touch with a number of people whom I thought could make a useful contribution to Jenny's film - and she has already been in touch with a number of them

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.04.15 12:28

@Verdi wrote:
Thanks to Tony for making it clear that we are all of equal value.
The strongest of doubts about this case have arisen equally from the humble housewife who knew that the McCanns' body language was all wrong on 4 May, to the Detective Inspector, Tavares de Almeida, who, four months later, on 10 September, compiled a formidable list of forensic reasons for questioning the abduction claim

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 26.04.15 13:28

I was a journalist for 12 years. But you don't have to be an "anything" to know where this Kleeman adventure's going.
No one in the MSM will touch the facts of this case as succinctly articulated in The Truth of the Lie and Richard Hall's vids.
The best thing that could ever happen would be for Richard Hall's vids to be serialised (verbatim) on TV.
That is not going to happen in the current MSM pro-McClimate.
Richard has put together the most salient Mc anomalies and to me, it cannot be bettered - or indeed, given MSM air time, because it is so compelling a demolition of all the lies, government involvement, fraud and characters involved in this case.
As has been stated, what does that leave us with right now? 

Look at it this way, from a journalist's angle. If you wanted to enhance your career you'd presently go along the path of on line "abusive" trolls using the Mcs as examples of recipients of "hate", "threats" "abuse" and so on.
However, if you wanted a swift end to your career you'd (try to) air something analogous to Richard Hall's vids.
You would be shown the door faster than a door to door salesman.

The MSM agenda is fixed right now to promote the Mcs as victims whilst demonising anyone on line who veers from the MSM propaganda machine - and these latter day journo interlopers are wanting to feed off that.
We are the bait and no way would I bite.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Richard IV on 26.04.15 16:42

@ MarkWillis 
Look at it this way, from a journalist's angle. If you wanted to enhance your career you'd presently go along the path of on line "abusive" trolls using the Mcs as examples of recipients of "hate", "threats" "abuse" and so on.
However, if you wanted a swift end to your career you'd (try to) air something analogous to Richard Hall's vids.
You would be shown the door faster than a door to door salesman.



Spot on - JK is a careerist - in no way will she tarnish her establishment credentials.




Here`s a list of her documentaries to date - nearly all exposing the plights of downtrodden societies abroad.  There`s only one back in 2005 which went undercover in New Labour.
http://www.jennykleeman.com/documentaries/4560742018
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by BlueBag on 26.04.15 16:52

@Mark Willis wrote:I was a journalist for 12 years. But you don't have to be an "anything" to know where this Kleeman adventure's going.
No one in the MSM will touch the facts of this case as succinctly articulated in The Truth of the Lie and Richard Hall's vids.
The best thing that could ever happen would be for Richard Hall's vids to be serialised (verbatim) on TV.
That is not going to happen in the current MSM pro-McClimate.
Richard has put together the most salient Mc anomalies and to me, it cannot be bettered - or indeed, given MSM air time, because it is so compelling a demolition of all the lies, government involvement, fraud and characters involved in this case.
As has been stated, what does that leave us with right now? 

Look at it this way, from a journalist's angle. If you wanted to enhance your career you'd presently go along the path of on line "abusive" trolls using the Mcs as examples of recipients of "hate", "threats" "abuse" and so on.
However, if you wanted a swift end to your career you'd (try to) air something analogous to Richard Hall's vids.
You would be shown the door faster than a door to door salesman.

The MSM agenda is fixed right now to promote the Mcs as victims whilst demonising anyone on line who veers from the MSM propaganda machine - and these latter day journo interlopers are wanting to feed off that.
We are the bait and no way would I bite.

100%

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Thank the maker for the Internet... until that changes.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Tony Bennett on 26.04.15 16:57

@Richard IV wrote:@ MarkWillis 
Look at it this way, from a journalist's angle. If you wanted to enhance your career you'd presently go along the path of on line "abusive" trolls using the Mcs as examples of recipients of "hate", "threats" "abuse" and so on.
However, if you wanted a swift end to your career you'd (try to) air something analogous to Richard Hall's vids.
You would be shown the door faster than a door to door salesman.


Spot on - JK is a careerist - in no way will she tarnish her establishment credentials.

Here`s a list of her documentaries to date - nearly all exposing the plights of downtrodden societies abroad. There`s only one back in 2005 which went undercover in New Labour.
http://www.jennykleeman.com/documentaries/4560742018
But the danger from all this for Jenny Kleeman is that her reputation as a genuinely independent journalist will be tarnished for ever - just as has happened to Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan with 'Looking for Madeleine' - a book clearly scripted for them by the powers-that-be, and which contained no genuine research, just bits of cut-and-paste from the McCann Team, Brian Kennedy, DCI Redwood and so on.

If you publish a book/film which does not independently cover and analyse the key relevant facts of the case, and you produce something evidently one-sidee no-one can fully trust your work again.

She has a very fine line to tread, and could easly fall the wrong side of that narrow line.

After all, with over a million views to date of Richard Hall's 'The True Story of Madeleine McCann' (and tens of thousands more now viewing 'The Phantoms'), she has a newly awakened and well-informed group to add to her admitted, currentlly existing 'huge community of doubters'.

They too will be watching her production with great interest, and unless she gives a fair report of his film, there will be an outpouring of criticism from all of Hall's old and new supporters

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Mark Willis on 26.04.15 17:22

That's the dark design, Tony. The MSM are dinosaurs and they know it. The papers sales have havled (I think) in 10 years and viewing figures for TV are not like they used to be.
This is why the MSM despise the Internet, where much of the real news is quicker, from direct sources from people without agendas. Anathema to MSM.
Nothing could be more blatant an example of the MSM's agenda than their deployment of Summers & Swan and their ever morphing pawn, Brunt.
They are determined to impose regulations on the Net, a place where the MSM is shown to be nothing but a bunch of avaricious, mendacious, time serving, reputation ruining, soulless beasts they are.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by lj on 26.04.15 18:22

@Verdi wrote:
@Rufus T wrote:From Tony's original post - 

Finally, it is still, for a few more days, open to anyone, preferably someone from a professional background who can give a good, concise, polite and articulate summary of what they believe about the case and why, to talk to Jenny Kleeman on the record and explain their views. Contact can be made with her via the contact details on her website: http://www.jennykleeman.com/


I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.
I totally agree with your issue, although I quite understand Tony's point, maybe 'professional' has been taken out of context? 

I was more grateful for his acknowledgment in a later post :

".... that though there were a small minority of nasty and spiteful McCann-doubters on the net (as the Sun pointed out by using Rosalinda Hutton as a prime example) they were not representative of the hundreds of professional, educated and indeed ordinary, decent, working or retired people whose views on the Madeleine McCann case have been guided by reason, analysis and judgment and not by prejudice or hate."

A considerable number of patronizing arrogant people seem to think that unless you're armed with a masters degree from a well respected university, your opinion is not worth knowing.  Totally ignoring the fact that the university of life is equally beneficial.  Add to that, the adjectives hurled about - fruitloop nutcase tin-foil hatter conspiraloon f-wit etc. - I find it thoroughly insulting.  Thanks to Tony for making it clear that we are all of equal value.
To name some professionals that can't string a sentence together:

Kate Healy, Rachel, Fiona, her mom and her husband, David, Jane, oh let's just say the Tapas 9.

What would I give to see a fair debate between any one them and most of us here, even the "retired" or "unemployed".

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 26.04.15 18:55

Rufus wrote: & those others who questioned the "professional" preference.

I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.


Let's be realistic.  
Do you rather have a motor-mouth nutter self-absorbed kind of individual offering to represent the Doubters Community, only to open gob and put foot in it?  That will be catastrophe in the making.

Or would you rather prefer to have someone who is articulate and eloquent, adept at communication or oratory skills, able to put across the salient points in a calm, clear and unambiguous manner representing you (as in doubter/s)?
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Humble housewife vs a professional...?

Post by missbeetle on 26.04.15 20:38

@aiyoyo wrote:
Rufus wrote: & those others who questioned the "professional" preference.

I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.


Let's be realistic.  
Do you rather have a motor-mouth nutter self-absorbed kind of individual offering to represent the Doubters Community, only to open gob and put foot in it?  That will be catastrophe in the making.

Or would you rather prefer to have someone who is articulate and eloquent, adept at communication or oratory skills, able to put across the salient points in a calm, clear and unambiguous manner representing you (as in doubter/s)?

Are you offering, Aiyoyo?

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Doug D on 26.04.15 20:59

Aiyoyo 3.31
 
‘The fact that the UK Police continues to deploy dogs in their search operations is strong indication that they trust the dogs. This won't have escaped the McCanns. Nor the fact that OG used 4 dogs in their PDL search’.
 
Knitted 10.32
 
‘(ii) Four trained dogs with their uniformed handlers bounding around freely all week and finding.... Errm, what was it now?...  an old sock? ("alerting to clothing"), a rabbit bone?, ("'alerting to death'").... Or was it they found nothing?’
 


Were we not led to believe that there were only two dogs out there last summer and it only came out earlier this year in the Welsh press (iirc) that four had been sent?
 
I don’t think it has ever been explained what the two ‘secret’ dogs were up to.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 26.04.15 21:01

@missbeetle wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
Rufus wrote: & those others who questioned the "professional" preference.

I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.


Let's be realistic.  
Do you rather have a motor-mouth nutter self-absorbed kind of individual offering to represent the Doubters Community, only to open gob and put foot in it?  That will be catastrophe in the making.

Or would you rather prefer to have someone who is articulate and eloquent, adept at communication or oratory skills, able to put across the salient points in a calm, clear and unambiguous manner representing you (as in doubter/s)?

Are you offering, Aiyoyo?

I vote you. smilie
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 26.04.15 21:32

Mark Willis Today @ 2:28 pm

"I was a journalist for 12 years."

That explains a lot!  Good to have another insider on board to tell it like it is.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 26.04.15 21:37

lj today @ 7:22pm

"To name some professionals that can't string a sentence together:

Kate Healy, Rachel, Fiona, her mom and her husband, David, Jane, oh let's just say the Tapas 9."

Perfect example!  The lot put together couldn't produce one coherent sentence.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Rufus T on 26.04.15 21:46

@aiyoyo wrote:
Rufus wrote: & those others who questioned the "professional" preference.

I do hope when you mention"preferably from a professional background" it is because, rightly or wrongly, the general public tend to give more weight to what a "professional" says. When I read this yesterday it made me rather angry and I do not like to post in anger, so can you please clarify why you wrote that, thank you.


Let's be realistic.  
Do you rather have a motor-mouth nutter self-absorbed kind of individual offering to represent the Doubters Community, only to open gob and put foot in it?  That will be catastrophe in the making.

Or would you rather prefer to have someone who is articulate and eloquent, adept at communication or oratory skills, able to put across the salient points in a calm, clear and unambiguous manner representing you (as in doubter/s)?
Clearly the latter aiyoyo, but theses qualities are not only found in "professionals" and  that was why I took umbrage at the original post.
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 26.04.15 21:52

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:@Verdi.

Though I currently believe OG to be legit I'm completely aware that it could turn out to be a whitewash. I don't want that to be the case though.

I don't want it to be a whitewash but I'm sure it will be.

I don't know if you've been following the Claudia Lawrence case but that has been going on 6 years, is on the second investigation team but doesn't have the political and media interference as seen in this case.

Yes, I am aware of the ongoing case of Claudia Lawrence but I can't see any logical comparison with that of Madeleine McCann.

It is quite clear to me that the police have their suspects and have stated publicly that they know people have lied to them (and will arrest them!) but don't have the evidence. A pact of silence, basically!

Bear in mind the PJ retain the lead in this case and OG have to follow their rules of silence. It does make even me uncomfortable, but seeing as there is no patsy in sight for a whitewash, what does that leave?

1, close case-unsolved.

2, Arrest and charge the actual perps

I never forget the the PJ retain the lead, it's the UK (Operation Grange in particular) that appears to have overlooked that simple fact.

Number 1 will cause high embarrassment and a whole new group of people demanding answers of what they've done the last four years and £10+ million. And where does it leave the PJ?

Since when has the UK authorities given a stuff about public opinion?

Number 2 is the only option IMO that gets the "monkeys" off everyone's backs

Whatever happened to PJ [Proby]:  Van Morrison

Whatever happened to PJ [Proby]?
Wonder can you fix it Jim

Where the hell do you think is Scott Walker?
My memory's getting so dim

Don't have no frame of reference no more
Not even Screaming Lord Sutch
Without him now there's no Raving Loony Party
Nowadays I guess there's not much

To relate to anymore
Unless you wanna be mediocre
Ain't nothing new under the sun
And the moon and the stars now chum

I'm making my way down the highway
Still got a monkey on my back
I'm facing it head on and doing it my way
Please can you cut me some slack


On top of this I just can't see the PJ going along with a whitewash for a foreign country given past terrible treatment and the fact they have Socrates on remand. What would be in it for them?

I don't see any requirement for the PJ to go along with a UK whitewash.  Heavens knows they've done their bit, why should they care what the UK are getting up to?

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by Verdi on 26.04.15 21:59

@Doug D wrote:Aiyoyo 3.31
 
‘The fact that the UK Police continues to deploy dogs in their search operations is strong indication that they trust the dogs. This won't have escaped the McCanns. Nor the fact that OG used 4 dogs in their PDL search’.
 
Knitted 10.32
 
‘(ii) Four trained dogs with their uniformed handlers bounding around freely all week and finding.... Errm, what was it now?...  an old sock? ("alerting to clothing"), a rabbit bone?, ("'alerting to death'").... Or was it they found nothing?’
 


Were we not led to believe that there were only two dogs out there last summer and it only came out earlier this year in the Welsh press (iirc) that four had been sent?
 
I don’t think it has ever been explained what the two ‘secret’ dogs were up to.
Weeing up the wrong tree?
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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by jeanmonroe on 27.04.15 1:10

Doug D wrote:

"I don’t think it has ever been explained what the two ‘secret’ dogs were up to."
-----------------------------------------------------
if IT WERE EVER EXPLAINED, IT WOULDN'T BE 'SECRET' ANYMORE, WOULD IT?

Maybe they were 'up to' sniffing out the BIG 'secret' that the McCann's were 'hiding'. (ref: J Stalker GMP)

Maybe they were trying to sniff out, the SECRET 'SQUIRREL'?

'Sniff out' all the T9 contradictary and discrepancy ridden 'statements, under oath' that ex DCI Redwood er, seemed to have, umm, 'lost', when he was IO at OG, for 3 1/2 years?

Back on topic:

I very much doubt, i'm a 'doubter'.

I used to be indecisive, but now, erm, i'm not sure.

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Re: Jenny Kleeman/Guardian Documentary Film on Madeleine McCann out soon

Post by aiyoyo on 27.04.15 7:07

@Rufus T wrote:Clearly the latter aiyoyo, but theses qualities are not only found in "professionals" and  that was why I took umbrage at the original post.

Correct.  
Professional standard speaker and not a common fishwife type.
Not someone mentally unhinged with a checkered past.
Not someone who when opens gob turns people off, in a nutshell.
Not difficult to deduce TB meant that too, I'm sure.  I saw it that way, anyway.
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