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6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

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The parents encouraging their 6-year-old son to be a girl...

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6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.04.15 14:47

2-minute video shows 'Lily', with nails painted bright pink, talking to Victoria Darbyshire:  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32037397

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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by aquila on 07.04.15 15:17

I can't really say on a public forum what I feel about this other than this is becoming an increasingly sick society. The sexualisation of children is in your face.

I've watched documentaries that have followed the lives of transgenders and most of it was to do with psycho-analysis followed by horrendous hormone intake and agonizing surgeries. This was then followed by more psycho-analysis.

I'll come back to this topic but for now I'm finding it upsetting.
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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by aquila on 07.04.15 16:24

Today there has been an article in the Daily Mail (headline) of a gay couple who have two children with one on the way from surrogate mothers. This will be three pre-ordered babies  arriving within months of each other.

I struggle to understand this other than to say you can buy just about anything nowadays.

This couple didn't want one baby, most people whatever their situation would wish for just one baby to love.

This couple have used a surrogacy agency.

Jeez, if this couple ever fall out there will be a whole raft of lawyers, law makers and media sensationalism (good earner) to completely destroy society.

Children are so cheap nowadays. You can buy one, if you have enough money you can buy 3.
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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by comperedna on 07.04.15 16:32

I would rather there had been an 'it must depend on the child and the circumstances' option. 'I'm not sure' does not quite cut the mustard, as the reason for not being sure is that every case must surely be so individual. I have only met one child in this category - s/he was aged five and very vulnerable in many other ways, and also had an intersex condition, so it was not straightforwardly about gender identity which what is being discussed in this thread.

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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by aquila on 07.04.15 16:55

@comperedna wrote:I would rather there had been an 'it must depend on the child and the circumstances' option. 'I'm not sure' does not quite cut the mustard, as the reason for not being sure is that every case must surely be so individual. I have only met one child in this category - s/he was aged five and very vulnerable in many other ways, and also had an intersex condition, so it was not straightforwardly about gender identity which what is being discussed in this thread.
Please speak about, if it's possible, this specific case of intersex condition of a five year old. I love your wisdom, experience and input. It's much appreciated.
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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by comperedna on 07.04.15 17:05

There's an awful lot of shock horror around this topic. What a dreadful world we live in! etc. etc. I'm just glad none of my children or grandchildren had such problems, which can't be ignored and can lead to so much misery .

Some say it is all simple... give the child a genetic test and see whether s/he is XX or XY and that will settle it. However that is genetics and not gender identity... quite a different business. Even the strict Olympic Games adjudicators are more compassionate than that. Remember Caster Semenya, the South African runner who was challenged for looking like a man? She had a hormonal condition which prevented her underlying genetic masculine sexuality developing at all, and she was phenotypically female. She was not allowed to compete again until various of her blood and other tests came within the female range.

True, irrevocable and irreversable decisions should never be taken with very young children, but day to day decisions have to be made by parents and schools and all. Hopefully in situations where there is gender dysphoria, parents will have access to really good and experienced medical, psychological and psychiatric staff at clinics like The Tavistock. Also important must be contact with other families in the same boat, and grown ups who have been through similar experiences.

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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by comperedna on 07.04.15 17:22

I have NO special expertise or wisdom in this area at all: fortunately there are others who are able to advise. The child I met at infant school was thin, frail, ginger-haired and dressed as a boy. Teased by certain classmates, who sensed someone vulnerable and easy to bully, he was only happy when dressed up as a fairy or a princess. (NB Lots of little boys with NO problems in this area see no reason for not donning girls' clothes from the dressing up box for a change, especially if they are posh or glittery). He exhibited all kinds of symptoms of distress at school and the family was referred elsewhere and moved on for particular help.
There were awful mental health and social problems at home, so the whole situation was grim. I guess dad would have preferred a very different sort of son.

There are people about who are much better qualified to talk on this subject than me.

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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by Amy Dean on 08.04.15 9:03

There was a programme on this subject on the BBC recently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05qkzt2/louis-theroux-transgender-kids

At one time I would not have thought it possible for very young children to have doubts about their gender but I do now believe that it is.
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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by aquila on 08.04.15 14:48

I've just watched the Louis Theroux documentary link posted by Amy Dean.

I'm afraid I came out none the wiser.

What I saw was a new (American) business dedicated to its own indulgence with an increasingly younger 'market' and that's very worrying.

I latched onto the professionals justifying their own existence and nothing clear was shown as to the happiness of transgender adults let alone children except for the professionals recapping, changing their minds and generally being evasive . There was little to suggest that any of those who underwent pre-puberty hormone intervention had benefitted (imo). What I saw was a life of struggle, physically, financially and most important emotionally.

This documentary was designed to promote some sort of debate. I must say I like Theroux.

Taking manufactured hormones to live your life is just awful to me. To take hormones to stall puberty is a step too far for me. To think an 18 month old knows it's a different sex is bonkers as far as I'm concerned.

Having your genitalia re-manufactured - in a bespoke way - every customer is different - doesn't make things ok for the patient. Mutilating someone's body was what I saw. The psychological and physical pain was wafted over. These people have suffered.

It's all very confusing....but confusion is good.
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Re: 6-year-old 'Lily', born a boy, has been a girl for most of her life

Post by aquila on 09.04.15 6:42

Good article in today's Daily Mail

How can a child of three need transgender counselling? Asks LIBBY PURVES
By Libby Purves For The Daily Mail
Published: 00:49, 9 April 2015 | Updated: 00:49, 9 April 2015
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