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"Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by joyce1938 on 30.12.14 16:34

I must say that the bag was not very visable at all . picture of wardrobe door not wide open enough to see SIZE of said bag ,it may just have been a bag of type that could be a carry on bag ,not big enough to carry much in ? I cant in all honesty be sure it was used as some have said . joyce1938
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by phil_burton on 30.12.14 16:36

A grizzly thought but maybe MM was in the blue bag when it was photographed?

Only my opinion of course!

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by plebgate on 30.12.14 16:48

snipped from scrants last post:

"
It has often puzzled me why, if they were trying to keep everything under wraps, Kate raised the alarm at all.
Why not just wait until morning and say she had disappeared in the night and they had forgotten to lock the patio doors."


Could one possibility be that they wouldn't have all been able  to alibi each other if Maddie had disappeared in the night?

If Maddie had disappeared in the night what about Crecheman/Smithman?

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Realist on 30.12.14 16:54

@Joss wrote:
and what then? They proceeded to lie to all the Tapas crew about how she died, so they would all be in on a cover up for the McC's? To the point the tapas crew lied to police about leaving their kids in their apartments, did checks on them etc? possible help with disposal of a child's body?, and whatever else they lied about to support their good friends the McC's? That is not keeping things simple IMO.

The McCanns would never have confided to their acquaintances as to what happened to their daughter, never in a billion, zillion light yrs. Had they done so, they would have been banged up yonks ago. When your friends become your foes----- By the same hypothesis, they would never have enlisted their aid in disposing of the body.

Their acquaintances and that's all they were would have been confined to a strictly need to know basis. They are lying for entirely different reasons and that's why their stories don't tally with those of the McCanns. You'll no doubt have noted that Dr. Oldfield doesn't commit himself to having seen Madeleine at circa 9.30 pm, whilst safely stating that he definitely observed the other two, secure in the knowledge that he knew nothing had happened to them.

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Realist on 30.12.14 16:57

@plebgate wrote:

If Maddie had disappeared in the night what about Crecheman/Smithman?

They'd have simply become 'Nightmen.'

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by secrets and lies on 30.12.14 17:12

I can accept there might be a million-to-one shot chance that Madeleine McCann did die at the hands of a burgler/intruder/paedophile who broke into the McCanns holiday apartment. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility but raises question like why was no DNA belonging to this person found, how did they remove the child from the apartment etc.,

But why have the McCanns been so adamant about their abduction theory? If they are wholly innocent then the alert of the dogs to cadevrine would not have been an issue for them. Being doctors you would think they might have reached the same conclusion SY seemed to have reached seven years later-that Maddie died in the apartment.

But their outright refusal to acknowledge the dogs findings suggests they were indeed hiding something. Or were they afraid that acknowledging the odour of cadaver would automatically incriminate them in a crime they didn't commit?

This seems about as likely to me as pigs colonising outer space.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by plebgate on 30.12.14 17:17

@Realist wrote:
@plebgate wrote:

If Maddie had disappeared in the night what about Crecheman/Smithman?

They'd have simply become 'Nightmen.'
who would have seen the "Nightmen" I wonder?

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Realist on 30.12.14 17:33

I think we can safely assume that anything transpiring after 8.30 pm. on the 3rd. May 2007 had nothing whatsoever to do with what happened to Madeleine and that includes all the sightings etc. Everything that occurred after this time was either part of the McCann's prearranged theatrical antics or figments of other's imagination.

To determine what actually happened to Madeleine, one has to concentrate on what happened in the days and times prior to 8.30 pm May 3rd. That's is why Operation Grange is a patent charade, its not what the Met. Police are doing which is necessarily wrong, its what they're not doing.

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by scrants on 30.12.14 17:43

@plebgate wrote:snipped from scrants last post:

"
It has often puzzled me why, if they were trying to keep everything under wraps, Kate raised the alarm at all.
Why not just wait until morning and say she had disappeared in the night and they had forgotten to lock the patio doors."


Could one possibility be that they wouldn't have all been able  to alibi each other if Maddie had disappeared in the night?

If Maddie had disappeared in the night what about Crecheman/Smithman?
Creche man and Smithman wouldn't have been of any importance if the story was she disappeared in the night. It was only because everyone thought she had gone during dinner and they were looking for suspects/witness around that time.

Only if they knew that Madeleine was no longer in the apartment did it make any sense to raise the alarm when they did.  If her body was still there it would raise many more problems like someone finding her and vastly increase the difficulty of disposal.  Matt, if he had entered the room, could have been the one to raise the alarm and it would have suited their purpose just as well

As for cleaning up behind the sofa, just how long does it take to get out the bleach and clean up a few spots of blood and scrub between the tiles?  Being doctors, they would know that bleach would interfere with DNA. Not very long, in my opinion.  Think of cleaning up something spilled in your kitchen.  Bleach doesn't take very long to do its work.  Open windows before going out would get rid of the smell.

Yes, Plebgate, having alibis could have been the reason, but I still think that not all were in the know.  You or I would not be happy telling a 'social acquaintance' something so damning and expect them to go along with it.  Whereas telling a very old friend that you were in a spot of bother.......

I do think the twins were sedated to have one fewer thing to worry about and to keep them quiet when it all kicked off.

 Gerry refused to allow them to be questioned because he said they did not have the language skills.  As I remember from my own children language goes in leaps and bounds from age 2.5 and they would certainly have been able to answer simple questions like what went on before they went to bed and did Madeleine go to bed too?  If I had been in the situation Kate claims to have found, the first thing I would have done is wake my other children and ask them did they see anything

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.12.14 18:14

@scrants wrote:
I still think that not all were in the know.  
Can you explain all, or indeed any, of the following, if they were 'not in the know':

JANE TANNER

...seeing Tannerman, changing her descriptions?

...picking out Robert Murat in an ID parade, then later changing her mind?

...claiming that 'Monster Man' and Tannerman were one and the same, even though she never saw Tannerman's face?

RUSSELL O'BRIEN

...writing out the timeline on Madeleine's ripped-out Sticker Book cover?

...claiming he saw Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May?

FIONA PAYNE

 ...claiming she saw Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May?

RACHAEL OLDFIELD

...claiming she saw Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May?

MATTHEW OLDFIELD

...chopping and changing his story about what he did on his alleged 'checking' visit at 9.30pm? 

DAVID PAYNE

...making claims about visiting the McCanns' apartment on 3 May at 6.30pm which appear to be false?

...claiming that the Tapas 9 had 'a pact of silence'?

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by scrants on 30.12.14 19:06

Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.

The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by scrants on 30.12.14 19:09

Oh, I left out Matt.

Again, over eager efforts to help and make himself look good by 'remembering' lots of details.

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by plebgate on 30.12.14 21:09

@scrants wrote:Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.


The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.
As a poster (sorry can't remember who) asked at the time Crechman was revealed, it still begs the question as to why Mr. & Jez didn't see him too?  Tannerman/crechman or anyman, they say they didn't see anyone at all!

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Joss on 31.12.14 3:19

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@scrants wrote:
I still think that not all were in the know.  
Can you explain all, or indeed any, of the following, if they were 'not in the know':

JANE TANNER

...seeing Tannerman, changing her descriptions?

...picking out Robert Murat in an ID parade, then later changing her mind?

...claiming that 'Monster Man' and Tannerman were one and the same, even though she never saw Tannerman's face?

RUSSELL O'BRIEN

...writing out the timeline on Madeleine's ripped-out Sticker Book cover?

...claiming he saw Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May?

FIONA PAYNE

 ...claiming she saw Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May?

RACHAEL OLDFIELD

...claiming she saw Robert Murat outside the Ocean Club on the night of 3 May?

MATTHEW OLDFIELD

...chopping and changing his story about what he did on his alleged 'checking' visit at 9.30pm? 

DAVID PAYNE

...making claims about visiting the McCanns' apartment on 3 May at 6.30pm which appear to be false?

...claiming that the Tapas 9 had 'a pact of silence'?
Exactly. IMO they were all in on some kind of cover up, for reasons only they know.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Joss on 31.12.14 3:25

@scrants wrote:Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.

The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.
I think you will find Tanner's sightings have been debunked.
As for the timelines written from a torn out cover of Maddie's sticker book, who on earth would think to do something like that when a little girl is missing?? Wouldn't their efforts have been better spent helping to search for Madeleine at that crucial time?  The whole lot of them were trying to get their stories straight at that time IMO.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Joss on 31.12.14 3:47

Then we have what we must call a really, really amazing theory, the kidnap by abduction. A burglar who seeing himself interrupted in his business by a 4 yr old, decides to take her instead of, for example, the digital camera that was on the table.
In a house that adults kept on supposedly entering every 15 minutes
It all boils down to what was supposed to be a highly revealing documentary about the Maddie mystery that reveals, in fact, absolutely nothing.

It raises the possibility that Two-Face could be a person of interest and nothing else.

If anything it undermines the possibility of abduction by ruling out, inexplicably as we said, Tanner’s Bundleman as an abductor.

And that may have been the whole point of the documentary. Without Tanner’s Bundleman the probability of an abduction is significantly reduced, not to say nullified.

The abduction theory now resides solely in a sighting of a man carrying a child half a mile away that the prestigious Scotland Yard says may be completely innocent and unrelated.

Add to this the remarkable resemblance between Two-Face and Gerry McCann.

As we’ve said time and time again there are no coincidences in “Maddie’s world”. We have a missing girl, we have no abduction and we have a Gerry lookalike seen with a child in Rua da Escola Primária, half a mile away from apartment 5A.

Do you want us to join the dots?
http://textusa.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/the-beginning-of-end-of-institution.html
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Joss on 31.12.14 3:51

In this case it was the attempt to isolate the McCanns and protect everyone else.

Revisit the Mock 2 and overlook all its ridiculousness.

See how it exempts completely David Payne who isn’t even mentioned.
How it exempts Jane Tanner by giving a perfectly innocent explanation to her sighting.
How it exempts the Ocean Club by supposedly confirming that the Tapas Dinners existed, and even showing a version of our beloved friend, the Big Round Table!
How it exempts any and all guests from any participation in the events.

It exempts everyone, except the McCanns. That’s why they were so gloomy in Lisbon.
But Mock 2 failed entirely its objectives, except one which was to draw worldwide attention on to the subject

And for some very stupid and illogical reason, has literally thrown Scotland Yard’s credibility out of the window.

It came up with a version, again quoting the Portuguese, which is “neither meat nor fish”. It’s simply… ludicrous.

No way back now.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by columbostogeys on 31.12.14 6:01

@plebgate wrote:
@scrants wrote:Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.


The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.
As a poster (sorry can't remember who) asked at the time Crechman was revealed, it still begs the question as to why Mr. & Jez didn't see him too?  Tannerman/crechman or anyman, they say they didn't see anyone at all!
I can answer that. Men dont see things out of their peripheal vision, when they are engrossed in conversation lol. My husband cant see a pair of socks when they are right in front of him. I dont find it strange they didnt see him, they were talking and their brains were trained on the conversation...men dont do multi task......so i dont find it strange they never saw anyone and if they even did it might not have registered as it was of no importance......

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by columbostogeys on 31.12.14 6:04

@scrants wrote:Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.

The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.
Totally agree with what you wrote.

I think if there was a pact it was only with DP and and the McCanns. This would never have worked if you had so many players in the game.

I think we all make this case far too complicated, i dont think it is complicated at all. I can easily work out two different scenarios one for abduction and one against.

This case cant be complicated as it would have been solved by now, as too many errors could have been made.

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Joss on 31.12.14 7:58

@plebgate wrote:
@scrants wrote:Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.


The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.
As a poster (sorry can't remember who) asked at the time Crechman was revealed, it still begs the question as to why Mr. & Jez didn't see him too?  Tannerman/crechman or anyman, they say they didn't see anyone at all!
That is because Tanner was lying about seeing anyone, and Crecheman was not in the same area, but half a mile in a different direction. The Crecheman has been cleared by SY, and was a dad walking home with his child, so i don't know why he is still being mentioned as if he is some kind of suspect. So in lieu of that No abductor exists.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by BlueBag on 31.12.14 9:25

Are some people now saying that the MO visit makes sense?

I'd like to see how.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by Guest on 31.12.14 10:02

@columbostogeys wrote:
@scrants wrote:Tony,

I did not say that none of them knew.  I think David Payne and Fiona knew and that David's supposed visit to 5a was invented to show that Madeleine was still alive at that time.

If the rest of them were genuinely under the impression that it all happened as the Mccanns said, Jane Tanner seeing Crechman could be true.  After all, Andy Redwood tells us he exists.  She was trying to help and her embellishments etc. we're well intentioned, if ludicrous, efforts to help.

The same with Russell O'Brien.  I personally cannot see anything very strange about writing his timeline on the sticker book or anything else.  There probably wasn't anything else to hand.  He is a trained doctor so he was probably trying to do things logically.  

Fiona Payne was probably in the know and saw the opportunity to point the finger away from the Mccanns.  I seem to remember that the man who resembled Murat was supposed to be one of MW staff who was there on the night.  It would be interesting to know who first 'remembered' Murat being there on the night.  The power of suggestion/persuasion under stressful circumstances can be very strong.  Perhaps Fiona suggested it to the others like "Wasn't he that man we sawthat night?"

You'll probably shoot me down in flames but I have tried to answer your questions as best I can.
Totally agree with what you wrote.

I think if there was a pact it was only with DP and and the McCanns. This would never have worked if you had so many players in the game.

I think we all make this case far too complicated, i dont think it is complicated at all. I can easily work out two different scenarios one for abduction and one against.

This case cant be complicated as it would have been solved by now, as too many errors could have been made.

I have only just clicked that not only were the Paynes missing from the Crimewatch reconstruction, they were also conspicuous by their absence in the Mockumentary, "Madeleine Was Here".

It would appear the McCanns, as well as OG, want as little mention of the Paynes as possible.

I find it very significant that the Paynes are appearing to be the only couple of the Tapas 7 that appear to be being whooshed as much as possible. It is also notable that the Paynes, along with the McCanns were the most hysterical that night. My interpretation of the facts that I've seen only.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by PeterMac on 31.12.14 10:50

Dee Coy wrote:
I have only just clicked that not only were the Paynes missing from the Crimewatch reconstruction, they were also conspicuous by their absence in the Mockumentary, "Madeleine Was Here".
It would appear the McCanns, as well as OG, want as little mention of the Paynes as possible.
I find it very significant that the Paynes are appearing to be the only couple of the Tapas 7 that appear to be being whooshed as much as possible. It is also notable that the Paynes, along with the McCanns were the most hysterical that night. My interpretation of the facts that I've seen only.

Payne claims to have visited the apartment - but probably didn't
Fiona Payne claims to have been IN the apartment at that time, but neither St Katherine nor Payne husband make reference to this.
Fiona Payne is a qualified anaesthetist, as was St Katherine, and may have been involved in the sedation of the (remaining) children, either as accessory, or as witness to the act,
but also as witness to the actual number of children present
The Paynes therefore collectively know far too much for comfort, and given the gibbering inconsequentiality of rogatories, and the fact that the story has not been rehearsed in sufficient detail
they become extremely dangerous
Just a thought !

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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by aiyoyo on 31.12.14 14:58

[quote="Dee Coy"]
I have only just clicked that not only were the Paynes missing from the Crimewatch reconstruction, they were also conspicuous by their absence in the Mockumentary, "Madeleine Was Here".

It would appear the McCanns, as well as OG, want as little mention of the Paynes as possible.

I find it very significant that the Paynes are appearing to be the only couple of the Tapas 7 that appear to be being whooshed as much as possible. It is also notable that the Paynes, along with the McCanns were the most hysterical that night. My interpretation of the facts that I've seen only.[/quote]



Whose version (Kate or Payne) to use though even if they'd wanted to feature Payne's visit in the CW or Mockumentary?  They can't do it.  It's simply not do-able.  The two versions are so contrasting as if chalk to cheese.  Payne inside the apt with three angelic looking kids lounging about on the sofa within his view, or Kate wrapped in her bathrobe talking to a Payne standing outside the lounge and no kids in view?  

The visit did not take place, the Police must know it. 
 If I went visiting my friend in her apartment and she came out in a bathrobe to meet me that would register with me, not question about it.  That would perhaps even be etched onto my memory since it coincides on Maddie's disappearance day.
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Re: "Incompetent and unco-operative Portuguese held up Scotland Yard for a year by refusing to supply forensic evidence" - Sunday Mirror 21 Dec 2014

Post by PeterMac on 31.12.14 15:22

@aiyoyo wrote:
Whose version (Kate or Payne) to use though even if they'd wanted to feature Payne's visit in the CW or Mockumentary?  They can't do it.  It's simply not do-able.  The two versions are so contrasting as if chalk to cheese.  Payne inside the apt with three angelic looking kids lounging about on the sofa within his view, or Kate wrapped in her bathrobe talking to a Payne standing outside the lounge and no kids in view?
The visit did not take place, the Police must know it. 
If I went visiting my friend in her apartment and she came out in a bathrobe to meet me that would register with me, not question about it.  That would perhaps even be etched onto my memory since it coincides on Maddie's disappearance day.
Which is precisely why they refused to go back for a reconstructions.
The Payne visit is not do-able
The half hourly Benny Hill visits are not do-able
The Tanner squeezing past the men on the pavement is not do-able, which they proved when Gerry insisted the other two were both lying and reduced Tanner to tears,
The setting of the curtains, shutters, window for the various visits is not do-able
The PJ would have been in absolute stitches just watching them all start fighting over whose statement was going to take precedence at any point, and would then have arrested the lot
None of it took place, and the Police of two countries KNOW it.

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