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Follow the money trail.

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Why cover up for a nanny's negligence?

Post by utahagen on 18.12.14 17:41

"Universe" wrote, "It is my opinion that Madeleine died on this warm SUNDAY evening in the apartment whilst the nanny was preoccupied."

If Madeleine died when a nanny was watching her, or when a nanny was supposed to be watching her, why would the McCanns cover that up? I have left my son with babysitters and wouldn't feel obligated to cover for them if he got hurt while in their care...

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Realist on 18.12.14 17:43

@ScarletLaw wrote:

 Gerry wanted to do a Live Aid type event at the beginning

I'd have thought that in the case of his daughter, Madeleine, 'Live Aid' would have been a classic case of shutting the barn doors after the horses had bolted.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Realist on 18.12.14 17:45

@utahagen wrote:

If Madeleine died when a nanny was watching her, or when a nanny was supposed to be watching her, why would the McCanns cover that up? I have left my son with babysitters and wouldn't feel obligated to cover for them if he got hurt while in their care...

Precisely, to suggest otherwise is entering the realms of 'Alice in Wonderland.'

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by PeterMac on 18.12.14 17:48

@universe wrote:To my  thinking ,  as the weather on the Sunday when the last  photo  by the pool was  taken was the only  hot day that whole week and was that same evening that the nanny was  relaxing  on the verandah  in this  warm  weather  when  Madeleine fell from the lounge and died. It is my  opinion that Madeleine  died  on this warm SUNDAY  evening in the apartment whilst the nanny was preoccupied.
Except that it was only warm during the day in full sunshine. IN the evening, by 9pm it was 16º and the wind had come up to a Force 4 WNW, which is cold with wind chill on top.
Interesting theory though.

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Follow the money trail.

Post by universe on 18.12.14 17:56

Alice in wonderland does not come into this analysis at all, but the Mccanns fear of an autopsy showing ongoing sedation would have them pretend to be helping the distracted nanny and Mark Warners while in truth saveing their own skins from the law.
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Realist on 18.12.14 18:28

@universe wrote:Alice in wonderland does not come into  this  analysis at all, but the Mccanns fear of an  autopsy showing ongoing sedation   would have them  pretend to be  helping the  distracted nanny  and Mark Warners while in  truth  saveing their own  skins from  the law.

No disrespect, but I think it was a tad more than signs of sedation that the McCanns were fearful of in the event of an autopsy. There's no conceivable reason that would induce any sane minded person to dispose of their daughter's body and concoct a kidnapping synopsis in order to cover up for a child minder's negligence, or protect a holiday camp company's reputation..

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Follow the money trail.

Post by universe on 18.12.14 18:29

The babysitting nanny may have been preoccupied in the Mccanns bedroom with hea;dphones for music on when Madeleine fell and not relaxing on the veranda. Did Kate Mclean have her bed sheets washed as well after Sunday evening when the nanny left the Mccanns apartment?.
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Realist on 18.12.14 18:35

@universe wrote:The  babysitting nanny  may have been preoccupied in the  Mccanns bedroom  with  hea;dphones  for music on when Madeleine fell  and not relaxing on the veranda. Did  Kate Mclean have her bed sheets washed as well  after Sunday  evening when the nanny left  the Mccanns apartment?.

I don't care if the babysitting nanny was swinging on the chandeliers whilst singing auld lang syne, there wouldn't be a sane minded person on this planet who would embark on a similar course to the McCanns in order to protect their nanny. They may well want to wring her neck, but protect her whilst endangering themselves, I don't think so.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Onager on 18.12.14 18:39

I agree, PeterMac, it is an interesting theory.

The 16 degree evening temperature, whilst pretty cold to most, may not be felt by youngsters... what my three (19 to 24) wear on evenings out in the middle of winter baffles me... so a shared fag and drink on the balcony is plausible.

As for the returning parents. The responsible amongst us would check on the sleeping kids... but would Mr and Mrs?

So a discovery the next morning, of a child who fell behind the sofa, would lead to what? Accusations and counter accusation, with a 'we can't afford to have an autopsy' thrown in the mix?

The subsequent 'plan' would need to be made as watertight as possible.

Accordingly, the nannies are kept out of the loop as much as possible... the service not used.

The parents would need an alibi, so the meal/checking routine is devised, with the benefit of

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Follow the money trail.

Post by universe on 18.12.14 18:45

The Mccanns would have been protecting themselves from an autopsy report and not Mark Warners holiday resort bussiness when they conned Mark Warner owners into into a cover up of the accident that benefited all parties financially and legally.
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Gaggzy on 18.12.14 20:59

@Realist wrote:
@universe wrote:The  babysitting nanny  may have been preoccupied in the  Mccanns bedroom  with  hea;dphones  for music on when Madeleine fell  and not relaxing on the veranda. Did  Kate Mclean have her bed sheets washed as well  after Sunday  evening when the nanny left  the Mccanns apartment?.

I don't care if the babysitting nanny was swinging on the chandeliers whilst singing auld lang syne, there wouldn't be a sane minded person on this planet who would embark on a similar course to the McCanns in order to protect their nanny. They may well want to wring her neck, but protect her whilst endangering themselves, I don't think so.

.... maybe that's why the nanny was 'pre-occupied.'
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by String on 19.12.14 0:47

"Did Kate Mclean have her bed sheets washed as well after Sunday evening when the nanny left the Mccanns apartment?".


Pity she forgot about her trousers and cuddle cat! 


Great marketing idea though - 'Mclean powder washes away any dodgy DNA'. 


OMG - I'm a genius - Just setting up a web site as we speak!  high5
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Joss on 19.12.14 2:41

She popped a load of washing on when they knew the police were on their way to the apartment. The place was that clean it was as if they never had children there at all, as GM had to go back home to collect something with Maddie's DNA on it. Cuddle cat did get a washing too.
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Joss on 19.12.14 2:44

@Realist wrote:
@utahagen wrote:

If Madeleine died when a nanny was watching her, or when a nanny was supposed to be watching her, why would the McCanns cover that up? I have left my son with babysitters and wouldn't feel obligated to cover for them if he got hurt while in their care...

Precisely, to suggest otherwise is entering the realms of 'Alice in Wonderland.'
I think this whole case is like Alice in Wonderland. It just goes further and further down the rabbit hole.
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 19.12.14 9:50

@ScarletLaw wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Joss wrote:

And do you think the other tapas lot also concocted the stories about checking their kids? 

Absolutely!! Hence why it is vital that they all stick to the 'child checking rota' story.

If the truth comes out that the window of opportunity was longer than the "kidnapper took her in a 3 minute window" (tosh)...long enough for someone to enter the apartment (stranger or known within the group), undertake a sick act, tidy the scene, leave without a trace with the body but leaving cadaver scent everywhere (so a minimum of 2-3hrs in 5a then) then they are all up to their necks in it, as non of them were doing any checking, other than to check the alcohol % on the backs of the wine bottles they were guzzling at the restaurant.
Then that implies they all know what happened to Madeleine and are all complicit in a crime. Don't know if they would all put themselves in it that far for the McC's? Were they all really such close friends? I can't imagine.
And what if one of them tells, or will they all take their dirty little secret to the grave?

IMO i think they all know that non of the kids were being checked, so would be guilty of negligence......but....without a body, or the safe return of Madeleine, this cannot be proven, so the longer it keeps going, the safer they are. 

The tapas group won't be covering anything up specifically for the McCanns, but more to cover their ar5es! If the McCanns are guilty of falsifying the child checking rota and the others agreed it...they are guilty too!

The only time the secret will be revealed is when either the perpetrator is caught and talks (about the timeline/events) or one of them admits they weren't checking (never happen).
Odd that there were no witnesses around them then while they were out at dinner to see them coming & going from the table?

Exactly. So they have snippets of info which provide hints of evidence and possibilities that the kids were being checked.

But due to friends in high places, i'm sure certain bits of information or witness statements that could prove (regardless of the situation with poor Madeleine) that they were all sat there for long periods of time quaffing wine and being humorous and not checking on them very much, have been omitted and other bits added.

IMO

 There's some deliberate information missing from the interview statements too that are posted online. There's some questions that haven't been asked by the police that should be there, especially according to the Tapas dinner that night. This is why it's so confusing because someone has removed sections. I'm hoping that when the Inspector is vindicated that he can look into this personally.

The 'missing information' isn't necessarily 'missing' though as we'd like to believe.

Its important to remember here, that the files that have been released are PII files, i.e public interest info, not ALL of the files, therefore both the PJ and SY are privvy to lots more information than us lot (unfortunately).

If we had access to all of the files and evidence, i'm sure it would/could change a lot of our views on the entire charade!

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Realist on 19.12.14 12:06

@Joss wrote:
'
I think this whole case is like Alice in Wonderland. It just goes further and further down the rabbit hole.

But only because of all the ridiculous and preposterous theories that are being propagated, all of which benefit the McCanns. This case , if one discludes the aforementioned and concentrates on the facts is basically straight forward. Attaining tangible evidence however, is not , because only two people whose fate relies on each other remaining silent know the facts, ie. where the body is interred etc.

At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they committed the cardinal sin of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception after discovering they were lying about the window shutters and purported intruder's method of entry.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Joss on 19.12.14 12:23

@Realist wrote:
@Joss wrote:
'
I think this whole case is like Alice in Wonderland. It just goes further and further down the rabbit hole.

But only because of all the ridiculous and preposterous theories that are being propagated, all of which benefit the McCanns. This case , if one discludes the aforementioned and concentrates on the facts is basically straight forward. Attaining tangible evidence however, is not , because only two people whose fate relies on each other remaining silent know the facts, where the body is interred etc.

At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they made the grave mistake of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception when they discovered they were lying about the window shutters and purported method of an intruder's entry.
Yes speculation is all we have got in this case, so any theory is a possibility from what we have from the PJ files etc. We have some pieces of the puzzle to work with, but that can all lead in different directions.
I am inclined to go with the theories of the impressions of the first on the scene investigators. I think it is all very telling.
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 19.12.14 12:35

@Joss wrote:
@Realist wrote:
@Joss wrote:
'
I think this whole case is like Alice in Wonderland. It just goes further and further down the rabbit hole.

But only because of all the ridiculous and preposterous theories that are being propagated, all of which benefit the McCanns. This case , if one discludes the aforementioned and concentrates on the facts is basically straight forward. Attaining tangible evidence however, is not , because only two people whose fate relies on each other remaining silent know the facts, where the body is interred etc.

At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they made the grave mistake of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception when they discovered they were lying about the window shutters and purported method of an intruder's entry.
Yes speculation is all we have got in this case, so any theory is a possibility from what we have from the PJ files etc. We have some pieces of the puzzle to work with, but that can all lead in different directions.
I am inclined to go with the theories of the impressions of the first on the scene investigators. I think it is all very telling.
 If they were involved, this is just a hypothetical theory- but I think there was a time line put into place and a simple plan, which with Jez turning up through it out of sync. Something was supposed to happen to the windows at this time is my guess. People basically follow certain patterns when putting something together and the key to it all could be in fact very simple.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Brian Griffin on 19.12.14 13:38

@Realist wrote:At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they committed the cardinal sin of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception after discovering they were lying about the window shutters and purported intruder's method of entry.
And don't forget they also allowed Gerry to sit in on his wife's interview, which is against procedure. Not only that, they allowed him to sit behind Kate and squeeze her shoulder whenever he saw fit. I imagine it was an act of compassion on the part of the PJ that ultimately turned round to bite them. What were they thinking to allow this breach of procedure? Who instigated it?

The PJ should have taken the whole group in, kept them separate and dragged the truth out of them before the interference started to take place. But would that have been admissible in court, I wonder? Statements given under duress and all that...

In my opinion.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by woodforthetrees on 19.12.14 13:44

@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Realist wrote:At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they committed the cardinal sin of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception after discovering they were lying about the window shutters and purported intruder's method of entry.
And don't forget they also allowed Gerry to sit in on his wife's interview, which is against procedure. Not only that, they allowed him to sit behind Kate and squeeze her shoulder whenever he saw fit. I imagine it was an act of compassion on the part of the PJ that ultimately turned round to bite them. What were they thinking to allow this breach of procedure? Who instigated it?

The PJ should have taken the whole group in, kept them separate and dragged the truth out of them before the interference started to take place. But would that have been admissible in court, I wonder? Statements given under duress and all that...

In my opinion.

Agreed. If they had been separated immediately, they couldn't have colluded together to come up with the rota which has subsequently had to go through so much scrutiny. The group would have had to come clean immediately about not checking the kids and faced those consequences, but kept the investigation on the track..

Having got that out of the way, they could've brought the dogs in earlier and kicked off a murder hunt immediately, rather than an abduction, a missing girl and the circus of rubbish that's been peddled about ever since!

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by ultimaThule on 19.12.14 14:22

@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Realist wrote:At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they committed the cardinal sin of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception after discovering they were lying about the window shutters and purported intruder's method of entry.
And don't forget they also allowed Gerry to sit in on his wife's interview, which is against procedure. Not only that, they allowed him to sit behind Kate and squeeze her shoulder whenever he saw fit. I imagine it was an act of compassion on the part of the PJ that ultimately turned round to bite them. What were they thinking to allow this breach of procedure? Who instigated it?

The PJ should have taken the whole group in, kept them separate and dragged the truth out of them before the interference started to take place. But would that have been admissible in court, I wonder? Statements given under duress and all that...

In my opinion.

I agree, BrianG, but had this taken place can you imagine what image of Portugal would have been beamed back to the UK, and the wider world, and the harm it would have done to that much maligned (by the British press) country if the group had stayed schtum and no body was recovered?
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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Brian Griffin on 19.12.14 14:30

@ScarletLaw wrote:Gerry wanted to do a Live Aid type event at the beginning with Elton John and other big stars, Clarence had to really talk him out of it. Even he thought that was a bit "over the top" after your child disappears.
Why am I not in the least bit surprised? So, was Gerry going to ask Elton to do it or just tell him he was doing it? Our Gezza comes across as a bit of a bully in my eyes. There's something loutish about him, and the way he pushed Jane Tanner around when she mentioned football makes me think he might be the strong arm behind a lot of this. Kate looks ready to break but Gerry is right beside her, squeezing her hand and reminding her what will happen if she spills a bean or two. My opinion only.

The whole merchandising angle makes me sick, not because I think it's a bad idea to let people know to look out for your missing child (and kudos to a parent who does make such an effort, even if that effort would probably have been better directed keeping your kids safe in the first place), it's just the way it's being done. Who has a 'shop' selling merchandise for a missing child like it's a Disney store? Gerry really seems to be enjoying the whole marketing thing like it's some kind of game with his 'Wider Agenda' and all the other - for want of a better word - profit streams.

I see they are recruiting for next year's season of 'The Apprentice'. Why doesn't Gerry sign up? He's got a business plan. He doesn't seem to care whose toes he treads on nor whom he pushes around. I think he'd go all the way because I doubt even Lord Sugar would sack him and risk 'harming the search' for Madeleine.

All in my opinion.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by ScarletLaw on 19.12.14 14:41

@Brian Griffin wrote:
@ScarletLaw wrote:Gerry wanted to do a Live Aid type event at the beginning with Elton John and other big stars, Clarence had to really talk him out of it. Even he thought that was a bit "over the top" after your child disappears.
Why am I not in the least bit surprised? So, was Gerry going to ask Elton to do it or just tell him he was doing it? Our Gezza comes across as a bit of a bully in my eyes. There's something loutish about him, and the way he pushed Jane Tanner around when she mentioned football makes me think he might be the strong arm behind a lot of this. Kate looks ready to break but Gerry is right beside her, squeezing her hand and reminding her what will happen if she spills a bean or two. My opinion only.

The whole merchandising angle makes me sick, not because I think it's a bad idea to let people know to look out for your missing child (and kudos to a parent who does make such an effort, even if that effort would probably have been better directed keeping your kids safe in the first place), it's just the way it's being done. Who has a 'shop' selling merchandise for a missing child like it's a Disney store? Gerry really seems to be enjoying the whole marketing thing like it's some kind of game with his 'Wider Agenda' and all the other - for want of a better word - profit streams.

I see they are recruiting for next year's season of 'The Apprentice'. Why doesn't Gerry sign up? He's got a business plan. He doesn't seem to care whose toes he treads on nor whom he pushes around. I think he'd go all the way because I doubt even Lord Sugar would sack him and risk 'harming the search' for Madeleine.

All in my opinion.

Jane voluntarily mentions the "football time" quite a bit and mentions that he took "so long" too, more times than needed. A seasoned interviewer would've picked up on this but the Portugese didn't, or they might've done and this is missing in the files that we see. Playing devils advocate -she might want the interviewer to pick up on this without deliberately telling them? She could be scared because he does have friends in the government. There are a few statements where people hint at Gerry accidently on purpose.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Brian Griffin on 19.12.14 14:45

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Realist wrote:At the end of the day, I'm afraid the PJ are the culpable party for this state of existence, because they committed the cardinal sin of not making the McCanns their prime suspects and placing them under surveillance from the inception after discovering they were lying about the window shutters and purported intruder's method of entry.
And don't forget they also allowed Gerry to sit in on his wife's interview, which is against procedure. Not only that, they allowed him to sit behind Kate and squeeze her shoulder whenever he saw fit. I imagine it was an act of compassion on the part of the PJ that ultimately turned round to bite them. What were they thinking to allow this breach of procedure? Who instigated it?

The PJ should have taken the whole group in, kept them separate and dragged the truth out of them before the interference started to take place. But would that have been admissible in court, I wonder? Statements given under duress and all that...

In my opinion.

I agree, BrianG, but had this taken place can you imagine what image of Portugal would have been beamed back to the UK, and the wider world, and the harm it would have done to that much maligned (by the British press) country if the group had stayed schtum and no body was recovered?
Good points, but I would imagine what has happened anyway has strained relations with, traditionally, our oldest ally. I would think the Portuguese authorities resent the interference and the people of PDL are sick to death of the whole affair and the regular raking up of the case.

You may be on to something about the Portuguese not wanting to jeopardise tourism etc. especially when the country is on the ropes, economically. Hmm...I wonder if we might not have slipped them a 'back-hander' in return for a bit of cooperation.

If the situation had been reversed and the child was Portuguese and went missing in the UK, would we have stuck to procedure or would we have let the whole thing slip into chaos on the say-so of a foreign power (if that is, indeed, what happened)?

All in my opinion. Speculation etc.

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Re: Follow the money trail.

Post by Florianne on 19.12.14 14:54

@aiyoyo wrote:I dont remember them ever using Nanny evening service

If my memory serves me correctly there was much speculation and criticism at the time about the McCanns declining to use the nanny service in the evenings, their reason being that they went back periodically to check on the children and all of them taking turns to do it.

I could be very wrong about this but it does stick in my mind for some reason.
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