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Tell a BIG LIE

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Tell a BIG LIE

Post by PeterMac on 16.12.14 8:53

Clever piece fromYou Tube.
You need to watch the whole thing to get the full effect.
Very clever juxtapositions




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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by Gaggzy on 16.12.14 10:03

Very good.

Tell a BIG lie and hide in plain sight.

And they get away with it because as P.T. Barnum said : There's a sucker born every minute.

Unfortunately, this country is full of them.
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by PeterMac on 16.12.14 10:17

What is cheering is that when the wheel comes off the entire thing grinds to a halt instantly. Not just a little but, but totally.
Careers are ruined, reputations in tatters, and no one who once cosied up and provided support wants anything to do with them.

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 16.12.14 10:50

Indeed PM (great video BTW), it will be very interesting to see how certain people in the media react.

You can perhaps forgive some sofa queens as just being ratings driven and/or stupid, but the likes of Paxman....how will he talk his way out of not giving GM a proper going over when he had the chance ? IMO Paxman saw right through the squirming and smirks, no doubt about it.

Others in the media have hinted that they have doubts too (e.g Kay Burley) so the backtracking will be entertaining to say the least. Piers Morgan....another 'we were duped' headline ?

Start thinking about your excuses soon celebs !

IMO
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by Jamming on 16.12.14 11:00

@PeterMac wrote:What is cheering is that when the wheel comes off the entire thing grinds to a halt instantly.   Not just a little but, but totally.
Careers are ruined, reputations in tatters, and no one who once cosied up and provided support wants anything to do with them.

It is indeed a wonderful video and so very apt.

In the Armstrong & Saville cases I may be wrong but their demise hasn't as yet brought down any others who conspired with them has it ? 

Should the wheels fall off of the McCann bandwagon I would anticipate that there may well be others that also suffer, legally, as a consequence though
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by PeterMac on 16.12.14 14:51

@Jamming wrote:
In the Armstrong & Saville cases I may be wrong but their demise hasn't as yet brought down any others who conspired with them has it ? 

Should the wheels fall off of the McCann bandwagon I would anticipate that there may well be others that also suffer, legally, as a consequence though
Savile's friend / chauffeur has just been sentenced to something quite long, and others are on the list
No one can now speak about Rantzen without linking her with him
Childline is under suspiscion - certainly on the internet if not "officially"
The mills are grinding exceeding slow, but with luck will grind exceeding small

People keep making rude noises about Charities of various sorts, including all those involved with Missing children, who clearly aren't.
Cherie Blair pulled away from PACT, just as the McCanns were getting involved with it.
The bloke Gerry met in the USA admitted large scale fraud with his missing people activities, - after the photo of them together had been taken !

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by guest3 on 16.12.14 18:54

There are many lies that surround this case and not all of them may be found in the most obvious places.  There are odd coïncidences that, whilst not necessarily having anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance, provide an interesting context for this case.

Leicester University is an interesting place. 

It is the site of the first ever centre for the study of mass communication in the UK - the Centre for Mass Communication Research set up in 1966, now the Department of Media and Communication. In 2007 the department had 12 full time academic staff and around 180 students in total by 2012-13, there were over 30 full time academic staff and around 650 students in total (not including those on Distance Learning, who would add over 400 for 2012-13.

It is a centre of excellence for genetic research.  When Madeleine's dna was supposedly found in the hire car no less a person than Sir Alec Jeffries offered himself as an expert witness on behalf of the McCanns.  He is genetics royalty having developed genetic finger printing at Leicester Uni. 

Forensic genetic testing was quickly  privatised in the UK with foreign police forces often turning to this privatised service.  The area of biotechnology in the UK is rather murky with no effective body overseeing ethics and genetics since the disbanding of the Emerging Science and Bioethics Advisory Committee.

Auckland in New Zealand is the home to a centre of excellence in genetics research - The Maurice Wilkins Centre which began in 2002 as the Centre for Molecular Biodiscovery. It was created by linking five high-performing research groups at the University of Auckland in biology, chemistry, engineering and médicine.

The TV drama The Missing dropped in the rather odd detail of the genetic disorder of cystic fibrosis seemingly a propos of nothing. It will be interesting to see if it goes anywhere tonight.

David Aaronovitch has been involved in a project called Media and the Inner World which is a research network funded by the Arts and Humanities Research Council.  MiW brings together academics, psychoanalysts and psychotherapists and media practitioners with the aim of exploring the place of emotion and therapy in popular culture. A central aim of the network as a scholarly project is to develop a ‘psycho-cultural’ approach to the study of media, culture and the unconscious that combines theories and methods from psychoanalytic and psychosocial studies with those from media and cultural studies.

How many brazen things are being carried out in plain sight I Wonder?

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.12.14 1:10

doircann wrote:

"How many brazen things are being carried out in plain sight I Wonder?"
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Obviously, you've never seen.......... PMQ's! laughat

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Another article about suspects lying

Post by PeterMac on 17.12.14 13:51

May have been posted before, but worth a re-read.
Additions in colour are mine.
http://www.businessinsider.com/police-detective-reveals-how-she-can-tell-suspects-are-lying-2012-4?IR=T
Former Detective Reveals How To Tell When Suspects are Lying
www.stacydittrich.com

Law enforcement can tell when suspects are lying, usually beginning with an initial 911 call or first interview.
"The 911 call and initial statements are among the most important pieces of evidence should a case go to trial," said Stacy Dittrich, a former Ohio police detective, crime expert and author. "The entire case can build from those few sentences."
Dittrich has appeared on Nancy Grace, CNN and E! to discuss headline-making cases and explain what happens behind the yellow tape. She told us police can usually tell if a suspect is lying--even if their story seems to line up.

Here are the most tell-tale signs, revealed.

A pre-emptive 911 call: Criminals sometimes call police very early to cover their bases. For instance, a man with a missing spouse might call police within a couple hours to say something is wrong. "The first question the detective is asking is why they're assuming something is wrong because not getting ahold of someone right away is pretty normal," Dittrich said.   Abduction by Paedo*** - rather then just "Not in Bed"

The emotions don't fit: even if what a suspect is saying on the call appears to be true, their tone is a big tip-off to police, Dittrich said. For instance, a calm demeanor while reporting a home invasion could indicate something is amiss because ``most people are hysterical in that kind of situation.''   Crying and wailing with no tears,  Masonic signs, prostrating on floor

Not answering "yes" or "no": an innocent person will usually answer questions with a direct yes or no. Not so for criminals, says Dittrich. When asked "are you involved in this murder?" they are likely to give a long answer like "I swear on my mother's grave and all my children I didn't." This is a way of stalling: even though they tell themselves to lie, they can't quite follow through.  No. . . .  And that's en emphatic No.

Too many details: A criminal usually carefully plans their story in advance, anticipating that they'll eventually speaks with detectives. A 911 call with too many details about the suspect, such as what they did that day or whether they're happy with their significant other, is a red flag because it shows the person put thought into his or her story.     Where do we start?  Sticker book, curtains wide open, cuddle cat  . . .

Lying about small stuff: Even the most innocuous statements can reveal inconsistencies, Dittrich said. A suspect talks of watching a television show in his or her alibi statement, but the show didn't air that night. Lies about small stuff usually culminate in bigger evidence against the accused.  Football, Meeting JW, JT seeing them men, timelines

Referring to a missing person in past-tense: Most people hold out hope that their missing loved one will be found alive. Referring to a person in past tense, saying "I really loved her" or "he and I were happily married,'' is incriminating, Dittrich said.    McCanns AND Tapas group have done this from the start..  She WAS a happy little child, she WAS my best friend

Saying ``huh?'' : When police ask a direct question, such as "Did you steal those items?" a guilty suspect will often pretend not to hear in order to stall and come up with a story, Dittrich said. Instead of answering a very direct question they say "huh?" or "what do you mean?" Dittrich said.    Ask the dogs, Sandra,  and all the Rogatory statements,

Helpfully offering another explanation: a suspect will often try and mislead detectives by putting another suspicious person on the investigation's radar, Dittrich said. If a person denies a kidnapping but mentions a creepy man in a van, it's important to see if there's any other evidence of such a person existing. If there's not, chances are the suspect made up a story to deflect the blame.  Murat, and then the entire list of suspects.

Most criminals destroy themselves with their own statements. The ones who are acquitted despite ample evidence are "sociopathic'' enough to convince themselves that the lies are reality, Dittricht told us, citing Casey Anthony, the infamous Florida mother acquitted of murdering her daughter.  Quite so

"It's haunting because the people who get away are the ones deranged enough to believe their own lies,'' Dittrich said.     No comment

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by ScarletLaw on 17.12.14 17:43

@PeterMac wrote:May have been posted before, but worth a re-read.
Additions in colour are mine.
http://www.businessinsider.com/police-detective-reveals-how-she-can-tell-suspects-are-lying-2012-4?IR=T
Former Detective Reveals How To Tell When Suspects are Lying
www.stacydittrich.com

Law enforcement can tell when suspects are lying, usually beginning with an initial 911 call or first interview.
"The 911 call and initial statements are among the most important pieces of evidence should a case go to trial," said Stacy Dittrich, a former Ohio police detective, crime expert and author. "The entire case can build from those few sentences."
Dittrich has appeared on Nancy Grace, CNN and E! to discuss headline-making cases and explain what happens behind the yellow tape. She told us police can usually tell if a suspect is lying--even if their story seems to line up.

Here are the most tell-tale signs, revealed.

A pre-emptive 911 call: Criminals sometimes call police very early to cover their bases. For instance, a man with a missing spouse might call police within a couple hours to say something is wrong. "The first question the detective is asking is why they're assuming something is wrong because not getting ahold of someone right away is pretty normal," Dittrich said.   Abduction by Paedo*** - rather then just "Not in Bed"

The emotions don't fit: even if what a suspect is saying on the call appears to be true, their tone is a big tip-off to police, Dittrich said. For instance, a calm demeanor while reporting a home invasion could indicate something is amiss because ``most people are hysterical in that kind of situation.''   Crying and wailing with no tears,  Masonic signs, prostrating on floor

Not answering "yes" or "no": an innocent person will usually answer questions with a direct yes or no. Not so for criminals, says Dittrich. When asked "are you involved in this murder?" they are likely to give a long answer like "I swear on my mother's grave and all my children I didn't." This is a way of stalling: even though they tell themselves to lie, they can't quite follow through.  No. . . .  And that's en emphatic No.

Too many details: A criminal usually carefully plans their story in advance, anticipating that they'll eventually speaks with detectives. A 911 call with too many details about the suspect, such as what they did that day or whether they're happy with their significant other, is a red flag because it shows the person put thought into his or her story.     Where do we start?  Sticker book, curtains wide open, cuddle cat  . . .

Lying about small stuff: Even the most innocuous statements can reveal inconsistencies, Dittrich said. A suspect talks of watching a television show in his or her alibi statement, but the show didn't air that night. Lies about small stuff usually culminate in bigger evidence against the accused.  Football, Meeting JW, JT seeing them men, timelines

Referring to a missing person in past-tense: Most people hold out hope that their missing loved one will be found alive. Referring to a person in past tense, saying "I really loved her" or "he and I were happily married,'' is incriminating, Dittrich said.    McCanns AND Tapas group have done this from the start..  She WAS a happy little child, she WAS my best friend

Saying ``huh?'' : When police ask a direct question, such as "Did you steal those items?" a guilty suspect will often pretend not to hear in order to stall and come up with a story, Dittrich said. Instead of answering a very direct question they say "huh?" or "what do you mean?" Dittrich said.    Ask the dogs, Sandra,  and all the Rogatory statements,

Helpfully offering another explanation: a suspect will often try and mislead detectives by putting another suspicious person on the investigation's radar, Dittrich said. If a person denies a kidnapping but mentions a creepy man in a van, it's important to see if there's any other evidence of such a person existing. If there's not, chances are the suspect made up a story to deflect the blame.  Murat, and then the entire list of suspects.

Most criminals destroy themselves with their own statements. The ones who are acquitted despite ample evidence are "sociopathic'' enough to convince themselves that the lies are reality, Dittricht told us, citing Casey Anthony, the infamous Florida mother acquitted of murdering her daughter.  Quite so

"It's haunting because the people who get away are the ones deranged enough to believe their own lies,'' Dittrich said.     No comment

The most obvious sign is when a person looks to their left-they're remembering, when they look to their right they're creating. If you're lying you give much in detail too that isn't relevant and over fill. Kate very much analyses what she's going to say before she says it and you can see her tick- tocking before she speaks. Gerry tries his best to do the freezing statue thing, when he does move though it's in sudden bursts of jumping forward and then he does the classic adaptations that children do and scratches his head and ear.  He covers his mouth quite a bit too which is a bit of a give away. I spent a little time watching his interviews after somebody sent me them. It was because of these that I realised, something isn't right here.

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by Hobs on 17.12.14 21:52

I would love to read the transcript of the 911 call for Maddie and i know Peter Hyatt would as well.

A lot can be learned from the initial 911 call as it contains excited utterances.
We can often tell if the caller is actually the perpetrator simply by listening ti not only what is said and in what order but alos what is not said.

if you visit Peter's blog and search on 911  there are plenty of examples along with analysis of calls where the killer is the one who made the calle ( or the suspected killer or the killer who got away with murder aided and abetted by her mom and dad - casey anthony)

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by aquila on 17.12.14 22:47

@Hobs wrote:I would love to read the transcript of the 911 call for Maddie and i know Peter Hyatt would as well.

A lot can be learned from the initial 911 call as it contains excited utterances.
We can often tell if the caller is actually the perpetrator simply by listening ti not only what is said and in what order but alos what is not said.

if you visit Peter's blog and search on 911  there are plenty of examples along with analysis of calls where the killer is the one who made the calle ( or the suspected killer or the killer who got away with murder aided and abetted by her mom and dad - casey anthony)

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/
Hobs, I don't believe the call was made by the McCanns. From everything I've read it was anyone else but the McCanns who made the call.
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by Gaggzy on 17.12.14 23:15

@aquila wrote:
@Hobs wrote:I would love to read the transcript of the 911 call for Maddie and i know Peter Hyatt would as well.

A lot can be learned from the initial 911 call as it contains excited utterances.
We can often tell if the caller is actually the perpetrator simply by listening ti not only what is said and in what order but alos what is not said.

if you visit Peter's blog and search on 911  there are plenty of examples along with analysis of calls where the killer is the one who made the calle ( or the suspected killer or the killer who got away with murder aided and abetted by her mom and dad - casey anthony)

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/
Hobs, I don't believe the call was made by the McCanns. From everything I've read it was anyone else but the McCanns who made the call.


They were far too busy to phone the police themselves.

When Gerry wasn't 'roaring like a bull' or lying face down on the ground wailing 'arab-like' and incoherent, he was busy phoning relatives to inform them that the shutters had been smashedjemmiedbrokenforced and there'd 'been a disaster.'

When Kate wasn't pre-occupied with practising karate-chops on the railings and honing her kick-boxing skills on pieces of furniture, or telling a potential witness directly above to 'f*** off,' she was texting friends ... Romans, countrymen, almost anyone she ever knew by reports .... oh, and then deleting them all.

See how busy they were.

Just leave it to one of their minions to see about calling the law - all in their own good time, of course.

I think it was Matt or Russell who drew the short straw was tasked in making the call from reception.

Wow, what a call that must have been. I bet the person on the other end thought it was some kind of crank call by someone who literally couldn't speak properly .... 'er, uhm, I er, well .... errrr, yes, oh, y'know ... erm etc,etc,etc.
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by aquila on 17.12.14 23:34

@Gaggzy wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Hobs wrote:I would love to read the transcript of the 911 call for Maddie and i know Peter Hyatt would as well.

A lot can be learned from the initial 911 call as it contains excited utterances.
We can often tell if the caller is actually the perpetrator simply by listening ti not only what is said and in what order but alos what is not said.

if you visit Peter's blog and search on 911  there are plenty of examples along with analysis of calls where the killer is the one who made the calle ( or the suspected killer or the killer who got away with murder aided and abetted by her mom and dad - casey anthony)

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/
Hobs, I don't believe the call was made by the McCanns. From everything I've read it was anyone else but the McCanns who made the call.


They were far too busy to phone the police themselves.

When Gerry wasn't 'roaring like a bull' or lying face down on the ground wailing 'arab-like' and incoherent, he was busy phoning relatives to inform them that the shutters had been smashedjemmiedbrokenforced and there'd 'been a disaster.'

When Kate wasn't pre-occupied with practising karate-chops on the railings and honing her kick-boxing skills on pieces of furniture, or telling a potential witness directly above to 'f*** off,' she was texting friends ... Romans, countrymen, almost anyone she ever knew by reports .... oh, and then deleting them all.

See how busy they were.

Just leave it to one of their minions to see about calling the law - all in their own good time, of course.

I think it was Matt or Russell who drew the short straw was tasked in making the call from reception.

Wow, what a call that must have been. I bet the person on the other end thought it was some kind of crank call by someone who literally couldn't speak properly .... 'er, uhm, I er, well .... errrr, yes, oh, y'know ... erm etc,etc,etc.
It's not even that...I don't think the call was made by an English (first language) speaking person. It was made by people who went to the OC reception from what I recall.

Oh no, there is no '999' call from a distressed parent. There's a call probably from someone who speaks Portuguese and knows how to get in touch with the police and to explain the situation made to them by one of the Tapasniks.

I don't actually find anything much wrong in this....other than the bleeding obvious.
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.12.14 23:38

"Tell a BIG LIE"?

The 'lie' dosen't have to be 'big' does it?

Although Tariq Jahan, DID, tell a 'WHOPPER'!

Tariq Jahan: 'Convicted' for assault.

Birmingham riots hero Tariq Jahan lied to police after arrest for alleged assault.

The man praised for defusing tensions after the Birmingham riots has admitted telling a string of lies when questioned by police over an alleged assault.

Tariq Jahan, 46, of Winson Green, is said to have got out of his car and punched and kicked Sajjad Ali, 34, after accusing him of looking at his wife.

Mr Ali was left with a broken jaw and two missing teeth after the alleged attack at an industrial estate on Factory Road, Hockley, on July 6 last year.

When he was arrested two days later, Jahan denied being the driver – saying his car was at home at the time of the incident.

Birmingham Crown Court also heard when questioned by police Jahan denied knowing how Mr Ali had sustained his injuries and answered “no comment” to simple questions.

Jahan denies one charge of grievous bodily harm with intent, and inflicting grievous bodily harm.

"Once you started with one lie, you have to make up a thousand lies to cover that one lie."

“Once I started there was no turning back.”

eta:"T Jahan ...has been found guilty of inflicting grievous bodily harm" (GBH)

It emerged during the trial that Jahan had a conviction for false accounting and forgery in 1985 and a conviction for conspiracy to rob in 1990.

He also received a caution for possession of cannabis in 2003 and a caution in 2004 for assault occasioning actual bodily harm in which he attacked his step mother.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

But STILL, 'apparently' a Great British 'hero' to Cameron and Miliband!
----------------------------------

....................and a caution in 2004 for assault occasioning actual bodily harm in which he attacked his step mother.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

..... after 'ATTACKING' his step MOTHER' (ABH)

What a guy!!

======================================

Anyway, back on topic, you also have to 'remember' ALL those 'thousand' LIES you TOLD to cover the first 'little/BIG' LIE you TOLD!

Something, a certain couple and their 'friends' don't appear to be very good at!

Still, we'll be here to er, 'remind' them! winkwink

'Lucky' ain't they?

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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by aquila on 17.12.14 23:47

@jeanmonroe wrote:"Tell a BIG LIE"?

The 'lie' dosen't have to be 'big' does it?

Although Tariq Jahan, DID, tell a 'WHOPPER'!

Tariq Jahan: 'Convicted' for assault.

Birmingham riots hero Tariq Jahan lied to police after arrest for alleged assault.

The man praised for defusing tensions after the Birmingham riots has admitted telling a string of lies when questioned by police over an alleged assault.

Tariq Jahan, 46, of Winson Green, is said to have got out of his car and punched and kicked Sajjad Ali, 34, after accusing him of looking at his wife.

Mr Ali was left with a broken jaw and two missing teeth after the alleged attack at an industrial estate on Factory Road, Hockley, on July 6 last year.

When he was arrested two days later, Jahan denied being the driver – saying his car was at home at the time of the incident.

Birmingham Crown Court also heard when questioned by police Jahan denied knowing how Mr Ali had sustained his injuries and answered “no comment” to simple questions.

Jahan denies one charge of grievous bodily harm with intent, and inflicting grievous bodily harm.

"Once you started with one lie, you have to make up a thousand lies to cover that one lie."

“Once I started there was no turning back.”
This is in my back yard so to speak. It's Asian wars. It's crap. It goes on all the time and for some reason it's swept over. There are areas of Birmingham (Alum Rock is one of them) that the police don't want to police and you'll never see...I can guarantee this....anything in police stats that will say there is a problem.
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Re: Tell a BIG LIE

Post by Hobs on 18.12.14 16:20

@aquila wrote:
@Hobs wrote:I would love to read the transcript of the 911 call for Maddie and i know Peter Hyatt would as well.

A lot can be learned from the initial 911 call as it contains excited utterances.
We can often tell if the caller is actually the perpetrator simply by listening ti not only what is said and in what order but alos what is not said.

if you visit Peter's blog and search on 911  there are plenty of examples along with analysis of calls where the killer is the one who made the calle ( or the suspected killer or the killer who got away with murder aided and abetted by her mom and dad - casey anthony)

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/
Hobs, I don't believe the call was made by the McCanns. From everything I've read it was anyone else but the McCanns who made the call.
Surprisingly enough, a lot can be learned from a 3rd party calling 911

it is not uncommon for the perpetrator to persuade/ask a 3rd person to call the emergency services, espeically if they are aware of analysis of 911 tapes revealing deception via excited utterances (these can be used in a court of law as cindy anthonyand casey anthony found out)

Billie dunn whose daughter Hailey was murdered ( by her mom and mom's boyfriend as revealed by statement analysis and forensic evidence though neither have been charged as yet)
Billie got her son to call Hailey's dad and have the bio dad Clint make the initial 911 call.
it puts distance between the killer and the crime.

I would love to hear the initial call as it can reveal a lot of what the caller was thinking and alsoit would allow LE to ask why he was asked to place the call, if he volunteered, what he was told prior to making the call and by whom, what he saw, what he heard and so on.

it would allow us to hear whether he knew or believed it to be an abduction or if he thought she had waked and wandered.

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