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Libel trial summing up - daily mail

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 14.12.14 10:59

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Joss wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Rocky had a family to feed so without his police job how was he expected to do that?   

I don't care how much he made or will make from the sale of his book/s, he was the lead investigator and in his opinion and experience things did not add up.   He came to a conclusion and wrote about it. 

If he goes on to make substantially more from civil litigation at some time in the future, then good luck to him I say.

One day Tony Bennett may be able to write a book and make money and I hope that this is the case as I think there are many who would like to buy and read all about his experiences and emotions having gone through the court process also.
To sum up: The main purpose of the book at issue in these proceedings - ‘Maddie: The Truth About A Lie’ - which was written by the defendant, Dr Goncalo Amaral – is to defend his personal and professional integrity, as the author himself points out straightaway in his preface, and throughout the text. 

I agree, and i would support anyone that has been affected in such a way to lose their livelihood because of the McCann PR machine of greed, and the fact they want to destroy anyone with an alternate opinion about what dead beat parents they were for what happened to Madeleine. They make me sick.
Dr Amaral didn't lose his livelihood within the Portuguese Police. He resigned. He wasn't sacked if my understanding is correct.
Yes you're right he did resign after being booted from the case, but McC's successfully destroyed his livelihood from other means, half his pension etc. And his assets frozen.


When the establishment is against you, your position is untentable, and will be unbearable if you stayed on.
Yes i would think so.
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by aiyoyo on 14.12.14 11:11

They withdrew permission to Portugal TV station to broadcast their mockumentary.  
You've got to wonder at the reason.  They've got to have a very good reason for not wanting it  broadcast in Portugal, but that reason was never forthcoming even when this matter was raised in Court.

Any sane person would think they'd want their version to be heard far and wide as possible, and also they would want it aired particularly in the country the child disappeared from. Documentary is made usually for purpose of search, to help public jog memory, and to aid in the look out for the missing person.  But, not them, they did a documentary not for portuguese audience.  Very ODD.
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Monty Heck on 14.12.14 11:57

@aiyoyo wrote:They withdrew permission to Portugal TV station to broadcast their mockumentary.  
You've got to wonder at the reason.  They've got to have a very good reason for not wanting it  broadcast in Portugal, but that reason was never forthcoming even when this matter was raised in Court.

Any sane person would think they'd want their version to be heard far and wide as possible, and also they would want it aired particularly in the country the child disappeared from. Documentary is made usually for purpose of search, to help public jog memory, and to aid in the look out for the missing person.  But, not them, they did a documentary not for portuguese audience.  Very ODD.
A most interesting point including not putting forward any rationale for this seemingly inexplicable action.   In weighing up the evidence put forward the judge cannot fail (surely) to take into account the fact that, as others have stated: 

  • the injunction was not immediately applied for but appears to have been delayed until an 'economically worthwhile' amount had been raised by the book.  If that is found to be the case then the claim for the damages caused to reputation and health must fall if the suffering claimed by the plaintiffs could have been averted by early legal intervention/injunction but was allowed to be prolonged
  • the focus, irrelevant to this case, on the claim that they were unjustly arguidoed and that the concerns of the British police etc were ignored, brought forward and deflected by the judge time and again may reveal another purpose for bringing the action than that stated in the citation
  • the apparent failure to present convincing evidence that their suffering was wholly , or if in part to what specific degree caused by the publication of the book alone


Slightly off topic, on the earlier discussion about the publicity which accompanies every OG visit to the Algarve and the progress of the investigation, would this necessarily have to come from Grange directly to the media?  The couple are apparently updated so not unfeasible they would know when ILOR are requested, when interviews will take place and so forth. Just a thought which could indeed very wide of the mark, and if problematic, please delete Admin.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Guest on 14.12.14 15:07

@aiyoyo
The McCanns withdrew their permission to TVI to air the Emma Loach documentary, when they became aware TVI would be showing the 'Amaral' documentary as well.
All to be found in Anne Guedes' latest report on the hearing last wednesday.
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by aquila on 14.12.14 16:23

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. There are some outstanding posts.

I have another couple of issues.

The McCanns put a specific figure as to what they were seeking in damages, which by the look of things correlates with the income from GA's book and the documentary.

There was a five-way split claiming for each individual family member. I seem to recall the McCanns said they would be placing their own 'winnings' into their limited company. There was no mention of what would become of damages paid to their three children.

So here are my questions (and they are probably a little naiive) but the only daft question is the one you were afraid to ask.

How did the McCanns place a specific amount on the damage caused to themselves as adults?

How can the McCanns quantify/qualify/demonstrate damage caused to their children, one of whom is missing?

Would any damages awarded to the children have a strict stipulation on how it is managed by the parents?

I also want to say that I thought this case was a slam-dunk for Dr Amaral and I'm hoping it still is but it's not clear.
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Guest on 14.12.14 18:54

[quote="aquila"]Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. There are some outstanding posts.

I have another couple of issues.

The McCanns put a specific figure as to what they were seeking in damages, which by the look of things correlates with the income from GA's book and the documentary.

There was a five-way split claiming for each individual family member. I seem to recall the McCanns said they would be placing their own 'winnings' into their limited company. There was no mention of what would become of damages paid to their three children.

So here are my questions (and they are probably a little naiive) but the only daft question is the one you were afraid to ask.

How did the McCanns place a specific amount on the damage caused to themselves as adults?

How can the McCanns quantify/qualify/demonstrate damage caused to their children, one of whom is missing?

Would any damages awarded to the children have a strict stipulation on how it is managed by the parents?

I also want to say that I thought this case was a slam-dunk for Dr Amaral and I'm hoping it still is but it's not clear.[/quote]



This kind of reasoning/questioning is, why I love you, dear Aquila, and I'm sure I'm not ze only one!
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.12.14 1:31

@aquila wrote:There are some great posts on this thread and due to the considered and valid opinions of others I've changed my own.

Here's a crunch issue for me.

Did the McCanns wait until Gonçalo's book gained a high circulation and income to institute libel proceedings?

Their claim for £1M in personal damages couldn't have been realised had the book and the documentary not produced a substantial income. So did they wait until it was financially beneficial to sue rather than trying to shut down the circulation of the book in its infancy whilst they were still in effect able to have some control over their reputation/profile in the media?

Short answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YES, absolutely.

why did the McCanns wait so long to sue Gonçalo Amaral over the alleged defamation in his book, "The Truth of the Lie."? This book was published at the end of July 2008, yet it wasn't until May 2009 that the McCanns stated their intention to sue.


"The parents of Madeleine McCann are to sue former Portuguese police detective Goncalo Amaral for defamation.< Kate and Gerry McCann are taking action over "unfounded and grossly defamatory claims", their spokesman said." BBC 17/05/09

The McCanns decided on the figure of £1 million (£1.2 million Euros) as the sum they wish to claim for defamation against the former PJ police officer.


What they are demanding
£430,000 damages for Madeleine which will be used to continue the search for her.
£215,000 for each parent for the emotional distress the book has caused them. They say they suffer 'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear'. The writ also says Kate McCann is 'steeped in a deep and serious depression'.
£86,000 for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, who could hear his allegations when they start school in September.

How he made his money
£500,000 from the book which has sold 180,000 copies in Portugal alone.
£430,000 from the extra 150,000 books which have been sold in Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland.
£100,000 for a TV documentary watched by one in five people in Portugal - 75,000 copies have sold on DVD. The McCann File*

So, it rather looks like the McCanns waited, once again, to take legal action, this time until it appeared that Gonçalo Amaral had made a significant amount of money from his book, and was therefore worth suing. One wonders why the McCanns didn't sue the author of the book A Culpa dos McCann (The McCanns' Guilt) Manuel Catarino. Never heard of this book, whose publication pre-dates that of Gonçalo Amaral by seven months? Perhaps that's why the author has not been sued! The book didn't sell! He wasn't worth suing!

So, what next? The McCanns have won the next round of their action to have Amaral's book banned. However, at present there is another case in the process of going through the legal channels in Portugal. Robert Murat, the first person to be named arguido in the case, is taking action against Jane Tanner and three others of the McCann friends with whom they went on that fateful holiday to Praia da Luz in May 2007. I await with great interest the result of that case and wonder if and how it might affect the re-opening of the Maddie case and the McCanns attempts to extract money from Dr Amaral.
------------------------------------------------------

They didn't 'sue'  Manuel Catarino, whose book, A Culpa dos McCann (The McCanns' Guilt) which PRECEDED GA's book by 8 (EIGHT) months, and this was mentioned in the ongoing libel case BY the Judge, (during GM's 'statement'), which 'contained' the SAME 'conclusions' that have so upset tthe McCann's in GA's book!

WHY didn't they 'sue' Manuel Catarino?

BECAUSE, HIS BOOK DIDN'T SELL WELL AND MADE NO MONEY!

Ergo, he was not 'worth' SUING! (by the McMoneygrubber's)

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 15.12.14 3:13

Yep, it's all about the money for the McC's. Madeleine was their little get rich quick scheme IMO. They're "fighting fund" says it all.
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by PeterMac on 15.12.14 8:42

@jeanmonroe wrote:
What they are demanding
£430,000 damages for Madeleine which will be used to continue the search for her.    But since she is WOC this may well fail,and since no serious search has ever even been started . . .
£215,000 for each parent for the emotional distress the book has caused them. They say they suffer 'permanent anxiety, insomnia, lack of appetite, irritability and an indefinable fear'. The writ also says Kate McCann is 'steeped in a deep and serious depression'.
Very deep, very serious, very depressed.
" />
£86,000 for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, who could hear his allegations when they start school in September.   They could also, of course just read the PJ files and the interim report and the archiving report. It is unlikely that the book will be published in English in the UK anyway. Long since out of date.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by woodforthetrees on 15.12.14 9:41

"Robert Murat, the first person to be named arguido in the case, is taking action against Jane Tanner and three others of the McCann friends with whom they went on that fateful holiday to Praia da Luz in May 2007. I await with great interest the result of that case and wonder if and how it might affect the re-opening of the Maddie case and the McCanns attempts to extract money from Dr Amaral."

This is interesting, i didn't know about this. What are his claims against them? Purely for fingering him as the abductor?

He was clearly stitched up by Tanner and the others, but to take the finger pointers to court, he must have very sound evidence about the reason/s why they stitched him up and proof of that.

I wonder whether this is why he had his lawyer with him when being questioned as a 'witness' last week??

Hmmm, interesting.....

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.12.14 10:22

@aquila wrote:Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread. There are some outstanding posts.

I have another couple of issues.

So here are my questions (and they are probably a little naiive) but the only daft question is the one you were afraid to ask.

How did the McCanns place a specific amount on the damage caused to themselves as adults?
This is how it (probably) happened:

1. How much have that man, the publisher and the TV company made so far?

LAWYER'S ANSWER: 1.2 million euros

2. So how much should we claim?

LAWYER'S ANSWER: 1.2 million euros

3. How we do apportion that? We have all suffered including Madeleine

LAWYER'S ANSWER: Divide it up, say into twenty-fourths

4. Huh?

LAWYER'S ANSWER: Madeleine's suffered the most damage from the abductor Amaral, so give her TEN twenty-fourths: 10/24 (500k euros). You two have suffered a lot because of the actions of the abductor Amaral, say FIVE twenty-fourths for each of you: 5/24 (250k euros). That leaves FOUR twenty-fourths left for the twins, they have also suffered because of the actions of the abdcutor Amaral, so say TWO twenty-fourths (2/24) to Sean and TWO twenty-fourths (2/24) to Amelie - 100k euros each. Total: 1.2 million euros

5. Neat! Can we actually claim for Madeleine, seeing as we don't know if she's alive or dead?

LAWYER'S ANSWER: Should be OK unless her body is found.

6. What if we've already got the 500 grand for her, and she's found dead?

LAWYER'S ANSWER: Er, well...er, let me get back to you on that one...

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by PeterMac on 15.12.14 10:43

@Tony Bennett wrote:
6. What if we've already got the 500 grand for her, and she's found dead?
LAWYER'S ANSWER: Er, well...er, let me get back to you on that one...
What if she is found dead and we are proved to have been involved ?
LAWYER'S ANSWER: I would like you to pay my fee up front, now, before I answer that question.
What if it was proved that she had not been abducted - just like Tugendhat J mused ?
LAWYER'S ANSWER: (Sound of footsteps and door slamming down the corridor)

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Guest on 15.12.14 13:03

Somehow it seems the Mecs never expected the case to get to this stage;

They were accustomed to those newspapers crumbling before CR; never having to prove anything

Now they must, and can't

Their lawyers probably have been fleecing them; it would be nice to learn how much they have been paying them so far.

But wait: its double glazer boy who's picking up the tabs, isn't it?
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by woodforthetrees on 15.12.14 13:57

@Portia wrote:Somehow it seems the Mecs never expected the case to get to this stage;

They were accustomed to those newspapers crumbling before CR; never having to prove anything

Now they must, and can't

Their lawyers probably have been fleecing them; it would be nice to learn how much they have been paying them so far.

But wait: its double glazer boy who's picking up the tabs, isn't it?

Brian Kennedy is no longer picking up the tab.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by jeanmonroe on 15.12.14 14:18

@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Portia wrote:Somehow it seems the Mecs never expected the case to get to this stage;

They were accustomed to those newspapers crumbling before CR; never having to prove anything

Now they must, and can't

Their lawyers probably have been fleecing them; it would be nice to learn how much they have been paying them so far.

But wait: its double glazer boy who's picking up the tabs, isn't it?

Brian Kennedy is no longer picking up the tab.

Possibly not.

Imo, Rupe is now the 'benefactor' for 'them'

THINK 'out of court' settlements from his 'empire'

Last er, GIFT/DONATION 'settlement', to the two former arguidos, £55,000, 'out of court' ST (News Corp), for some 'unfavourable' article.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by woodforthetrees on 15.12.14 14:27

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:
@Portia wrote:Somehow it seems the Mecs never expected the case to get to this stage;

They were accustomed to those newspapers crumbling before CR; never having to prove anything

Now they must, and can't

Their lawyers probably have been fleecing them; it would be nice to learn how much they have been paying them so far.

But wait: its double glazer boy who's picking up the tabs, isn't it?

Brian Kennedy is no longer picking up the tab.

Possibly not.

Imo, Rupe is now the 'benefactor' for 'them'

THINK 'out of court' settlements from his 'empire'

Last er, GIFT/DONATION 'settlement', to the two former arguidos, £55,000, 'out of court' ST (News Corp),  for some 'unfavourable' article.

Brian Kennedy has not given the McCanns any money for years now. He's not even been in the country.

I agree that their money is now media/court case money, hence why i believe the gravy train is running out and they are panicking a bit by doing things like asking Amaral to settle early out of court.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Khaleesi on 15.12.14 16:21

@woodforthetrees wrote:"Robert Murat, the first person to be named arguido in the case, is taking action against Jane Tanner and three others of the McCann friends with whom they went on that fateful holiday to Praia da Luz in May 2007. I await with great interest the result of that case and wonder if and how it might affect the re-opening of the Maddie case and the McCanns attempts to extract money from Dr Amaral."

This is interesting, i didn't know about this. What are his claims against them? Purely for fingering him as the abductor?

He was clearly stitched up by Tanner and the others, but to take the finger pointers to court, he must have very sound evidence about the reason/s why they stitched him up and proof of that.

I wonder whether this is why he had his lawyer with him when being questioned as a 'witness' last week??

Hmmm, interesting.....

Very interesting. I'll be waiting for this show to begin (oh, to see the faces of the Tapas bunch in the Court! ).
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by woodforthetrees on 15.12.14 16:47

@Khaleesi wrote:
@woodforthetrees wrote:"Robert Murat, the first person to be named arguido in the case, is taking action against Jane Tanner and three others of the McCann friends with whom they went on that fateful holiday to Praia da Luz in May 2007. I await with great interest the result of that case and wonder if and how it might affect the re-opening of the Maddie case and the McCanns attempts to extract money from Dr Amaral."

This is interesting, i didn't know about this. What are his claims against them? Purely for fingering him as the abductor?

He was clearly stitched up by Tanner and the others, but to take the finger pointers to court, he must have very sound evidence about the reason/s why they stitched him up and proof of that.

I wonder whether this is why he had his lawyer with him when being questioned as a 'witness' last week??

Hmmm, interesting.....

Very interesting. I'll be waiting for this show to begin (oh, to see the faces of the Tapas bunch in the Court! ).

Yes, me too. I would like to see what the charges against them are, the evidence to back that up and what the outcome will be. I'd not heard of any of this. Still awaiting a response with more details......

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by tiny on 15.12.14 17:01

Robert murat was said to be suing the tapas in 2010,havent seen any thing else on this to say if its still going ahead
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by sonic72 on 16.12.14 0:03

I thought it came out at this trial that Amaral made £344,000, not 1.2 Mil euros?

Which then begs the question, how did the Mccanns arrive at £1 million?

They obviously thought he made more than he did, and if he really only has £344, 000, and he loses (doubt it) then where do they thin he's going to get the other £656, 000 from?

Horrible spin piece but it does state what he earned.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2868798/Former-Madeleine-McCann-police-chief-earned-hundreds-thousands-writing-distortions-conspiracy-theories-book-case.html

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Brian Griffin on 16.12.14 2:15

I wondered that too. Presumably he has a house and a pension etc. Looks like they want him to pay for the rest of his life, like Tony.

In my opinion.

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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Joss on 16.12.14 5:01

@Brian Griffin wrote:I wondered that too. Presumably he has a house and a pension etc. Looks like they want him to pay for the rest of his life, like Tony.

In my opinion.
Yes indeed that is what they want IMO. To destroy anyone they perceive as a threat to their lying BS scripted story.
Maybe some people need to start counter suing them for all the damage they have caused, and place them in the same position. Sometimes you got to fight fire with fire.
Their aim is to get as much monetary mileage out of whoever they can, and i really hope people have stopped donating to their fraudation. People have already inadvertantly paid millions of taxpayer money for this charade.
What an evil pair, IMO, to take from pensioners that are struggling financially just to make ends meet nowadays, and i think in trying to destroy others they are really only destroying themselves in effect, when one day they will have to answer for their actions at the end of their lives. And if they are concerned about anything at all it should be that.
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by joyce1938 on 16.12.14 9:20

I am sure that mr amarals money was frozen ,some years ago ,he informed us he had to move in with father at one stage and lost his dad so not certain where he lived after that . he told us he was on the breadline and could barely  get by  and feed himself ,told us his close friend s and us kept him goin on . Can someone else recall this ? I would think so if have been on here few years. His marriage broke down and he had to move out to protect his wife , I hopem one day he will be able to realize money back ,its been a terrible burden on his li ife now for 7 years .  he doesn't deserve to have been taken for his own money eh ? What commitment does this show us all ? joyce1938
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Re: Libel trial summing up - daily mail

Post by Woofer on 16.12.14 9:40

@joyce1938 wrote:I am sure that mr amarals money was frozen ,some years ago ,he informed us he had to move in with father at one stage and lost his dad so not certain where he lived after that . he told us he was on the breadline and could barely  get by  and feed himself ,told us his close friend s and us kept him goin on . Can someone else recall this ? I would think so if have been on here few years. His marriage broke down and he had to move out to protect his wife , I hopem one day he will be able to realize money back ,its been a terrible burden on his li ife now for 7 years .  he doesn't deserve to have been taken for his own money eh ? What commitment does this show us all ? joyce1938

I remember that Joyce.  But it seems he had part of his pension.

"Gonçalo, you have lost everything you had. How have you survived?

I have survived with my retirement pension, or rather, with part of it, even because the company that I created after my retirement from the Judiciary Police has been ruined by the McCann couple. I do have projects for my life that do not depend on that couple, but since I know they do seek to destroy me I will not reveal them here."


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/02/goncalo-amaral-maddie-case-leads-to.html

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BS

Post by PeterMac on 16.12.14 9:58

"That’s why we expect them to lose their malevolent and mendacious libel claim."


Hear, hear.

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