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"Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by stillsloppingout on 10.11.14 21:19

@phil_burton wrote:Portia said "with sperm high up the wall"

Where has this come from? Is this fact? I've never heard this before


Where has this COME from !!!!! :big grin ......

Probably from Mr Completely big grin
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 10.11.14 21:47

On the basis that there is some truth in the various reports, I am viewing it positively. There will be some deliberate misinformation about burglaries gone wrong etc, but the make up of the witnesses, although identities currently withheld, are probably correct. The British witnesses are of particular interest and moves things uncomfortably close to home.

I think that previous reports of witnesses being interviewed were reported with much less notice (can anyone confirm ?), so I wonder why we are being told this information 2 weeks prior to the Nov interviews. On the basis of the reports, none of the holiday party are being spoken to....is this is a ploy to put pressure on ?

Lots of jogging over the next few weeks to find remote places to talk !

IMO
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by PeterMac on 10.11.14 22:16

@phil_burton wrote:As other have said, I think we need to treat this "news" with a pinch of salt. Unless it comes out of the mouth of Redwood, or an official SY mouthpiece, then it's probably being placed in the MSM by team mccann.
Sorry I disagree.
even this would not be enough.


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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by XTC on 10.11.14 23:06

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:
 The Scotland Yard thesis remains unchanged. On May 3, 2007, there was a failed robbery at the apartment 5A where the McCanns left their three children alone to go to dinner. Madeleine, then aged three years old, woke up and was abducted so she wouldn't recognize and accuse the intruders - a crime that may have been committed by one of the arguidos or by several, in association. 
Is that their thesis?

Or an assumption?

(I know it's hard not to make that assumption).

It'll never fly, not in a million years.

It's just such an appalling theory.  This is a burglar that knows PDL and the resort very well.  While checking out the loot, a bleary-eyed toddler (in the dark, having just woken up, in a place she doesn't know) appears.  Maddie - sharp as a button - immediately realises he is up to no good (rather some friend or babysitter) - clocks his appearance, his clothes - ready for the inevitable photo-fit and police line-up that will follow the next morning.

The burglar meanwhile knows full well that he cannot be arrested, let alone convicted, on the word of a toddler.  However, instead of simply heading off into the night a free man, he prefers to become a child-killer; murders Maddie leaving not a single trace, takes her body away, runs through the village with her and then buries her.

Either AR is the biggest fool ever to grace the corridors of SY, or he believes the UK public is.  
 
Is this a media theory or Scotland Yard's theory?

The " we don't do running commentaries " from SY is wearing very thin indeed I think unless
this really  is spin from usual sources solely?

In fact in an ongoing investigation I'm surprised the Portuguese haven't read the riot act in repect of
Judicial Secrecy laws to SY.

Just because SY are briefed to treat the investigation " as if it happened in the UK " it doesn't mean that
THEY will be doing any prosecuting in Portugal. That's the Portuguese authorities job. If they turn anything
up of course.

If SY found that the crime occurred in the UK then that is a different matter. Then The PJ will be assisting
SY and not the other way round as it is at the moment.

The media/SY? theory itself, though not impossible is highly unusual.

The only way that a death could have occurred is possibly the prevention of a child screaming. But we have three
children allegedly in the same room and two of them didn't wake up. The drugging ( by the burglar(s) doesen't stand
up either for me.

Secondly if accidental death happened due to prevention of screaming then would the perpetrator seriously
consider hiding the body by walking around the complex for many minutes in order to bump into JT and the
Smith family and any other passes by? Pedestrian burgalary is rare I think. A quick escape in a car perhaps is
better. No matter what your criminal activity is.

The fly in the ointment for this theory  is Eddie. The cadaver scent dog.

The efficacy of Eddie is disputed by some but what can't be disputed is the number of times and the articles  he indicated
on as well as a car to which the burglar(s) could not have access to and to the indicated items for the same reason.

As far as I am aware Cadaver Scent does not develop to the degree Eddie indicated to until 45 minutes or more after
death. Bearing in mind Eddie indicated in 5a and on the items and Scenic many weeks after the event.

Some have said that Cadaver scent develops straightaway possibly after death.  Yet if this theory is to gain its
wings then the burglar(s) must have removed Madeleine straightaway or hung around for a bit because Eddie signalled
many weeks later. The intensity of the scent is interesting. If removed  swiftly straightaway ( i.e. in panic

Failing that, the remover(s) came back to 5a to leave something that had been in contact with the removed person?

Whilst there they contaminated many items in 5a with the hope that a car would be hired in the future to be contaminated
and further push the blame for removal the opposite way? A fit up?

Further to that the remover(s) may have thrown something or things away in their panic - somethings which the SY " same
but better " SY recruited dogs who were trained in the same discipline as Eddie were in PdL to possibly detect?

It's not entirely ludicrous but this alleged theory is sailing very close to the wind of absurdity.

There are some viewers of this current investigation who think that SY will eventually have no alternative but to go back to the
very beginning. With this latest alleged theory it would be better to do that now in my humble opinion. Before anyone starts to
look ridiculous?

Only opinion though.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.11.14 23:44

@XTC wrote:
There are some viewers of this current investigation who think that SY will eventually have no alternative but to go back to the very beginning. With this latest alleged theory it would be better to do that now in my humble opinion. Before anyone starts to look ridiculous?
In an earlier broadcast to our duped nation, DCI Redwood explained how he had 'drawn everything back to zero', calling to mind Edith Piaf's song 'Je repars a zero'.

Most of us worked out that this was a typically pompous phrase which, in normal English, simply meant 'beginning from the beginning', or 'starting from scratch'.

Did you say: before anyone starts to look ridiculous...?

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by AlexBG on 10.11.14 23:55

@phil_burton wrote:As other have said, I think we need to treat this "news" with a pinch of salt. Unless it comes out of the mouth of Redwood, or an official SY mouthpiece, then it's probably being placed in the MSM by team mccann.
It was the top story on tonight's "ITV News" at 6:30pm. Redwood was interviewed.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by Okeydokey on 11.11.14 0:13

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@DaSteelMan wrote:I take this article with a pinch of salt. SY have made it clear they do not give running commentaries.
Welcome to the forum.

I think the fact that at the end of November, another highly-paid team of Operation Grange staff plus translators will be jetting to Faro to interview another seven arguidos=suspects is correctly reported.

They will sit patiently in their chairs watching Portuguese police officers interviewing these suspects, no doubt going through a mammoth list of 253 or more questions, like they did last time. Asking such penetrating questions as: "Did you kill Madeleine McCann?" - I believe that all four suspects were asked that question last time and, presumably, they all answered either 'No' or 'No Comment'.

Like all the other exercises by OG in Praia da Luz, the time and expenses of the Portuguese judicial and investigatory officers will be paid - according to a number of press reports - by the British taxpayers. They have probably already invoiced the British for the helicopters, staff and translators used at the previous rogatory interviews of suspects, all the personnel required to facilitate Redwood's highly-publicised searches, etc. 

As for the theory that they were part of a group of burglars carrying out a robbery, Madeleine (but not the children) woke up, the robber(s) panicked, and abducted her - to be honest that is very close to the statements that DCI Andy Redwood has made on the record in the past year or so about what may have happened. 

He has indeed spoken about a burglary that went wrong.

He has suggested that Madeleine might have been dead before she left the apartment.

He has said that the abduction may have occurred between 9.15pm and 10.00pm.

He has organised two massively expensive searches of patches of ground in Praia da Luz close to a route which might have been followed from Apartment G5A to where the alleged Smith sighting took place.

He told 6.7 million viewers on the BBC CrimeWatch McCann Show on 14 October 2013 that his 'central focus' was now finding the bloke on the two e-fits of very different-looking men.

And as the above Daily Mail report (thanks for posting, NickE) reminds us, quote: "Three of the four suspects questioned at the start of July were quizzed because British police suspected they were involved in a burglary at apartment 5A where Madeleine was sleeping with her twin siblings Sean and Amelie, now nine. At least one of the 11 people set to be quizzed later this month is thought to be a woman".   

 
@ Monty Heck 

It would certainly be fascinating to read the 253 questions asked of Sergei Malinka and the other three suspects last time round back in the summer - and their answers

But of course, never ever consider putting a similar number of questions to the Tapas 9. That would never do.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by whatsupdoc on 11.11.14 0:15

I very rarely watch BBC, ITV or Sky News and haven't bought a paper in 40 years or so as I don't expect to get any truth at all.
I was dissolutioned when TSR2 was scrapped. I wonder if the Americans leaned on Harold Wilson? winkwink
Just to add...I don't think DCI Redwood's zero was taken back far enough. It should have been the start of the holiday, at least.

I like your avatar AlexBG. I wonder if the mccanns will be employed by some TV company to tell fairy stories to the children as well?

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by AlexBG on 11.11.14 0:54

@whatsupdoc wrote:
I like your avatar AlexBG. I wonder if the mccanns will be employed by some TV company to tell fairy stories to the children as well?
Thanks. The avatar is a reference to 'Inspector Gadget', a cartoon featuring a clumsy, dim-witted detective. His niece Penny (pictured) and her dog always ended up solving the crime.
The dog analogy has already been validated, but I wonder if DCI Mahogany has an intelligent niece... big grin

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED on 11.11.14 1:20

Michaela, Malinka, Malinkas mum. I wonder if old one eye Murat will be reinterviewed.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.11.14 2:57

@IKNOWWHATHAPPENED wrote:Michaela, Malinka, Malinkas mum. I wonder if old one eye Murat will be reinterviewed.

Can't see it, myself!

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by Joss on 11.11.14 7:27

If the dogs were able to detect cadaver evidence in the McCann apartment it means that a deceased body was detected within probably a couple of hours after the death. I'm not sure of exactly how much time after someone has died that the dogs can detect that type of evidence, but i think it is between 1-2 hours after the death at minimum from what i have read?
That would mean a body was in the McC's holiday apartment for at least a 1-2 hour time frame if dogs alerted to it. And if someone actually abducted her and killed her elsewhere then there would of been no cadaver evidence at all in the apartment.
What window of opportunity was there in that case if Madeleine's body was removed very quickly after her death, as the speculation is burglars did it by the british investigation team? If SODDI and immediately removed a dead body, i don't think the dogs would have alerted for cadaver evidence in the holiday apartment. So in that case the body would of been there for longer if the dogs alerted as they did. So who does that leave to be with the body for that long? I really don't think any burglars would hang around for that long if they killed Madeleine would they? Especially not if we can believe the frequency of the checks done on the children? At most the supposed burglar would have only had a fairly small window of opportunity if that were the case to get out of there.
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by whatsupdoc on 11.11.14 8:49

@Joss wrote:If the dogs were able to detect cadaver evidence in the McCann apartment it means that a deceased body was detected within probably a couple of hours after the death. I'm not sure of exactly how much time after someone has died that the dogs can detect that type of evidence, but i think it is between 1-2 hours after the death at minimum from what i have read?
That would mean a body was in the McC's holiday apartment for at least a 1-2 hour time frame if dogs alerted to it. And if someone actually abducted her and killed her elsewhere then there would of been no cadaver evidence at all in the apartment.
What window of opportunity was there in that case if Madeleine's body was removed very quickly after her death, as the speculation is burglars did it by the british investigation team? If SODDI and immediately removed a dead body, i don't think the dogs would have alerted for cadaver evidence in the holiday apartment. So in that case the body would of been there for longer if the dogs alerted as they did. So who does that leave to be with the body for that long? I really don't think any burglars would hang around for that long if they killed Madeleine would they? Especially not if we can believe the frequency of the checks done on the children? At most the supposed burglar would have only had a fairly small window of opportunity if that were the case to get out of there.


Very succinctly put, Joss.  Many people agree with this but it is good to have it explained in just a few sentences.

If it is true about cadaver odour taking 1-2 hours to develop then according to the mccanns giving the alarm that Madeleine had been "abducted" sometime between 2130 and 2200, they must have been with Madeleine when she died.
I still believe it was the w/e when it happened as the mccanns were signing in other children into the creche.

The UK police are completely ignoring logic in this investigation. It's obvious they are being told what to do by a higher authority. Lying is the Status Quo.
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by woodforthetrees on 11.11.14 9:41



If it is true about cadaver odour taking 1-2 hours to develope then according to the mccanns giving the alarm that Madeleine had been "abducted" sometime between 2130 and 2200, they must have been with Madeleine when she died.

There have been other discussions on this. I read somewhere that it takes 30 mins, but in a warmer climate and the age of the cadaver, less than that.

Enough time to move the cadaver from behind the sofa, into the bedroom (on the floor next to the bed) and into the cupboard where the big blue (now missing) bag was kept

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by palm tree on 11.11.14 10:00

Aha, are they trying to tell us after GM last check a burglar may have ended her life, hide her behind the sofa, 9:30 check she wasn't seen and between the checks this person cleaned the apartment, then slipped out with the body before 10? Yeah right!
IMO

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by whatsupdoc on 11.11.14 10:08

@woodforthetrees wrote:


If it is true about cadaver odour taking 1-2 hours to develope then according to the mccanns giving the alarm that Madeleine had been "abducted" sometime between 2130 and 2200, they must have been with Madeleine when she died.

There have been other discussions on this. I read somewhere that it takes 30 mins, but in a warmer climate and the age of the cadaver, less than that.

Enough time to move the cadaver from behind the sofa, into the bedroom (on the floor next to the bed) and into the cupboard where the big blue (now missing) bag was kept


Statements from the Tapas 7 say it was chilly on the 3rd so the body must have been in 5A for quite some time which makes a Window of Opportunity about half an hour or so...not as suggested by mccanns.

Cadaver odour on Kate's clothes , keys and hire car rule out an abduction theory.

Just supposing Madeleine did die on the 3rd, were all the people in 5A helping to clean up before the police arrived? .... with Brains and Professor Beaker scribbling out a couple of Timelines?
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by Dr What on 11.11.14 10:24

I expect that there were only 2 or three people actually involved in the physical removal of the body from the apartment, but that when and if all the dust settles in this case, there will be many more people charged with perverting the course of justice.

This case has remained unsolved largely because of the false claims and lies told by those acquaintances of the previous 'arguidos'.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by Gaggzy on 11.11.14 10:43

@Dr What wrote:I expect that there were only 2 or three people actually involved in the physical removal of the body from the apartment, but that when and if all the dust settles in this case, there will be many more people charged with perverting the course of justice.

This case has remained unsolved largely because of the false claims and lies told by those acquaintances of the previous 'arguidos'.

The list of people charged with perverting the course of justice in this case could be as long as your arm!
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by sami on 11.11.14 10:49

@woodforthetrees wrote:


If it is true about cadaver odour taking 1-2 hours to develope then according to the mccanns giving the alarm that Madeleine had been "abducted" sometime between 2130 and 2200, they must have been with Madeleine when she died.

There have been other discussions on this. I read somewhere that it takes 30 mins, but in a warmer climate and the age of the cadaver, less than that.

Enough time to move the cadaver from behind the sofa, into the bedroom (on the floor next to the bed) and into the cupboard where the big blue (now missing) bag was kept


He was so panicked at being seen by a three year old child he was driven to murder her.  Then stayed in the apartment for 30 minutes moving her body around before calmly walking outside with her and away into the dak night never to be seen or heard of again.  Without a single trace or sighting in 7 years, except for when he cleverly cross contaminated Kate's clothing and the hire car with cadaver in order to frame the grieving parents.nah

I suggest this person is wasted as a burglar and should be recruited as a highly paid consultant by law enforcement agencies worldwide as he has indeed committed the perfect crime.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by PeterMac on 11.11.14 11:10

@sami wrote:
He was so panicked at being seen by a three year old child he was driven to murder her.  Then stayed in the apartment for 30 minutes moving her body around before calmly walking outside with her and away into the dak night never to be seen or heard of again.  Without a single trace or sighting in 7 years, except for when he cleverly cross contaminated Kate's clothing and the hire car with cadaver in order to frame the grieving parents
I suggest this person is wasted as a burglar and should be recruited as a highly paid consultant by law enforcement agencies worldwide as he has indeed committed the perfect crime.

"They seek him here, they seek him there
Those Grangies seek him everywhere!
Is he in Faro ? Or is he in Hell?
That demmed E-luz-ive Pimpernel?"

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by whatsupdoc on 11.11.14 11:19

@PeterMac wrote:
@sami wrote:
He was so panicked at being seen by a three year old child he was driven to murder her.  Then stayed in the apartment for 30 minutes moving her body around before calmly walking outside with her and away into the dak night never to be seen or heard of again.  Without a single trace or sighting in 7 years, except for when he cleverly cross contaminated Kate's clothing and the hire car with cadaver in order to frame the grieving parents
I suggest this person is wasted as a burglar and should be recruited as a highly paid consultant by law enforcement agencies worldwide as he has indeed committed the perfect crime.

"They seek him here, they seek him there
Those Grangies seek him everywhere!
Is he in Faro ? Or is he in Hell?
That demmed E-luz-ive Pimpernel?"

clapping1

Very good. You got the luz in as well. smilie

If SY police are asked by their friends if they work on the mccann case do they answer..
a) Unfortunately, yes, it pays the mortgage etc. and we get free trips abroad.
b) You must be joking. Do I look stupid?

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Phones

Post by PeterMac on 11.11.14 11:26

Interesting that the phones have been mentioned.
Grange know who phoned whom.
So Grange also know that Gerry and Kate erased their phone records
And that they lied about having done so.

Grange and the PJ were sent very detailed professional analysis along time ago, and should have then replicated this themselves
It sounds as though the may have done.

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by NickE on 11.11.14 12:17

@PeterMac wrote:Interesting that the phones have been mentioned.
Grange know who phoned whom.
So Grange also know that Gerry and Kate erased their phone records
And that they lied about having done so.

Grange and the PJ were sent very detailed professional analysis along time ago, and should have then replicated this themselves
It sounds as though the may have done.
..... and I wonder if they checked this out.

From "Kiko":

" I always said RobertMurat's texting at 2200 on 1/5 was directly connected with K Mccann's which started 2 mins after Murat's had finished.

Here's another funny thing: Murat pairs of SMS 2200 1/5 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. KM's at 2216 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins.Connect"!

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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by whatsupdoc on 11.11.14 14:18

@NickE wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Interesting that the phones have been mentioned.
Grange know who phoned whom.
So Grange also know that Gerry and Kate erased their phone records
And that they lied about having done so.

Grange and the PJ were sent very detailed professional analysis along time ago, and should have then replicated this themselves
It sounds as though the may have done.
..... and I wonder if they checked this out.

From "Kiko":

" I always said RobertMurat's texting at 2200 on 1/5 was directly connected with K Mccann's which started 2 mins after Murat's had finished.

Here's another funny thing: Murat pairs of SMS 2200 1/5 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. KM's at 2216 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins.Connect"!

I've not seen every tweet from kikoratton so I must say I find the sms times more than a coincidence. I believe the mccanns went to Chaplins on the Tuesday evening around 2130-2200 and stayed till midnight. Chaplins is 800 metres from 5A.
Apparently, a friend of Mrs. Fenn saw the group there and mentioned this on an interview with Antenna 3 TV. Staff from the Ocean Club were also apparently sent to Chaplins to inform the mccanns that children had been crying in 5A for some considerable time. This was around midnight. No wonder staff at the OC were removed.

The switching off and back on after many hours in synchronism between Gerry and Robert M always made me wonder as it didn't seem like a coincidence to me. We are missing more than one piece of the jigsaw.
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Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

Post by PeterMac on 11.11.14 14:25

@whatsupdoc wrote:We are missing more than one piece of the jigsaw.
But it begins to sound as if Grange have the other pieces

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