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Another look at the Last photo

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by BlueBag on 05.01.17 14:53

@Tony Cadogan wrote:

‘BlueBag’

“There is nothing subjective about digital artifacts appearing as a result of resizing.

It is a fact.”

The digital artefacts under discussion are due to JPEG compression, not “resizing”.  ‘canada12’ engaged in enlarging a digital image, which is somewhat similar to looking at the image through a magnifying glass, in order to see the otherwise unseen details.  He interpreted what he saw with the help of various digital enhancements as evidence of photoshopping.  He was wrong!
What's the deal here Tony?

What I said is perfectly correct - resizing kicks in the jpeg compression algorithms.

You seem to want to pick a fight about nothing with me for reasons I can't fathom.

engaged in enlarging a digital image, which is somewhat similar to looking at the image through a magnifying glass,
No it isn't.

Not by a million miles.

A magnifying glass doesn't invent new data.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Cadogan on 05.01.17 15:57

@JohnyT wrote:@Tony Cadogan "With the benefit of hindsight, several very important steps could have but had not been taken by the Portuguese Police and other responsible agencies to avoid many of the uncertainties that have been plaguing this case for years."

Like?

Thank you for asking.

An immediate forensic examination of all digital devices and all other personal belongings of the Tapas group for starters.

A little girl had disappeared in circumstances unknown. There were immediate doubts as to the veracity of the girl’s parents. All sentiments and sensibilities should have been put aside and every piece of information that could have been gathered, however unlikely it seemed at the time to be or become useful to the investigation, should have been gathered for possible future reference.

Would’ve been cheaper than OG by orders of magnitude I should imagine.

Happy New Year to you.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Cadogan on 05.01.17 16:05

@BlueBag wrote:
@Tony Cadogan wrote:

‘BlueBag’

“There is nothing subjective about digital artifacts appearing as a result of resizing.

It is a fact.”

The digital artefacts under discussion are due to JPEG compression, not “resizing”.  ‘canada12’ engaged in enlarging a digital image, which is somewhat similar to looking at the image through a magnifying glass, in order to see the otherwise unseen details.  He interpreted what he saw with the help of various digital enhancements as evidence of photoshopping.  He was wrong!
What's the deal here Tony?

What I said is perfectly correct - resizing kicks in the jpeg compression algorithms.

You seem to want to pick a fight about nothing with me for reasons I can't fathom.

engaged in enlarging a digital image, which is somewhat similar to looking at the image through a magnifying glass,
No it isn't.

Not by a million miles.

A magnifying glass doesn't invent new data.

Thanks for you comment, ‘BlueBag’.

I’m unable to reply at the moment being strapped for time. Please bare with me.

Respectfully

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by JohnyT on 05.01.17 16:17

@Tony Cadogan wrote:
@JohnyT wrote:@Tony Cadogan "With the benefit of hindsight, several very important steps could have but had not been taken by the Portuguese Police and other responsible agencies to avoid many of the uncertainties that have been plaguing this case for years."

Like?

Thank you for asking.

An immediate forensic examination of all digital devices and all other personal belongings of the Tapas group for starters.

A little girl had disappeared in circumstances unknown. There were immediate doubts as to the veracity of the girl’s parents.  All sentiments and sensibilities  should have been put aside and every piece of information that could have been gathered, however unlikely it seemed at the time to be or become useful to the investigation, should have been gathered for possible future reference.

Would’ve been cheaper than OG by orders of magnitude I should imagine.

Happy New Year to you.

Thank you for the reply Tony.
   So do you think that 'we' are privvy to ALL the files and information then?
Happy New Year to you too.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Searcher on 05.01.17 18:31

I am still wondering what the Tapas 7 did for baby-sitting in the days after 3 May.  Did they leave their children alone?  Any info appreciated.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty canada12 experiences a welcome outbreak of common sense

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.01.17 15:10

Credit where credit is due, canada12 in the other place has broken out into a good, honest piece of common sense on the Last Photo, where she writes:

“Good point chirpy. I think this goes all the way back to the first appearance of TLP and the printed claim that the clock in the camera was an hour out. What I find strange about that claim is that there is no visible time/date stamp on the photo, so why mention it at all? The only people who would have seen the time of the photo would have been the photo agency and then anyone who had downloaded it from the internet and looked at the EXIF info. And the police. So mentioning that the clock was an hour out publicly like that pre-anticipated questions being asked about when the photo was taken, and where Madeleine and Gerry were at that time. I think the only reasons TLP surfaced were to try and give Gerry an alibi for a contentious time period, and to try and place Madeleine in that same time and day, thus trying to prove she was alive. 

"But to get back to your original point. I believe as soon as that time/date discrepancy was mentioned, people looked at the EXIF data and started theoriszing about whether or not it could be altered. And it was very quickly discovered that if you had the right software - easily available online - you could indeed alter the time and date stamp without it being detected. And that's where all the discussions started”.

That’s an analysis fully in line with PeterMac’s experts and all the other amateur experts on CMOMM whose views contributed to CMOMM’s current understanding of the Last Photo.  Fine. But then she goes on:  

“He [Tony Bennett] really has a bee in his bonnet about me, doesn't he! I'm tickled that I'm considered so important that he's wasted so much time canada12-bashing. If I was really that unimportant he'd have long ago stopped mentioning me and moved on - but no, it seems to be vitally necessary to keep bringing me up and arguing with me”.

REPLY: No, it is simply a question of eliminating the bad ‘dress pattern theory’ which became even more of a nonsense when the alleged ‘dress pattern appeared on Madeleine’s neck, cheek and even her lips.

Mind you, the other place continues to be replete with comments by people apparently incapable of rational thought, e.g. this one:  

“If the McCanns came out now and admitted that that particular photo was in fact taken on the Sunday/Monday, then would it actually alter the investigation now in anyway?”

REPLY: Not much!  The four pages in ‘madeleine’ by Kate (pp. 65-8) would be full of untruths about the Thursday – sitting by the pool in the sun, carefully removing the hair beads at bath time etc. etc. It would undermine the credibility of the whole book at a stroke    


Then there was this from dee coy 

“The Sunday was the nearest ‘weather’ match that week, but to me the weather looks significantly warmer – very hot – and I think it was taken later in May just before Gerry’s trip to the UK. I think there was pressure to produce a photo proving M was around on the 3rd and the visit was to change the date back in time and add Madeleine (or her head) onto the photo”.

This is brilliant! dee coy can tell how hot it was on a photo just by looking at it! “Hmm, 70 degrees hey? No, I reckon at least 80”.

Or: “Hey dee coy! Look at this photo! Come and tell us how hot it was!”  dee coy: “Ooh, let me see, hmmm, more than 87 but no more than 95, I’d say”.

Helenmeg meekly agrees with this nonsense – “Yes agree with all that”.

Notice that neither of them has bothered to check if there really were any hot days after 3 May.

Finally someone else has posted  up this rubbish:

“They just needed to produce some sort of family photo, preferably the 3rd (to name it the Last Photo) but didn’t have one. So they cobbled one up”

And this sort of view is supposed to ‘top’ the view of two international experts?  

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by BlueBag on 07.01.17 15:24

Their mission is to muddy waters by adding lots of brown stuff.

However, verifiable evidence and rational thinking will win the day eventually.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty An open question to forum members from 'candyfloss':

Post by Tony Bennett on 07.01.17 23:03

An open question to forum members from 'candyfloss':

---------------------

QUOTE

For those who  suggest something happened to Madeleine right at the start of the holiday, and with all this so called 'evidence' they have, which of course is nothing of the sort apart from speculation, that she according to them died earlier...How on earth do they explain how all those people acted normally for the rest of the week, playing tennis and taking children to creches etc.  Are they seriously trying to tell us they were all such good actors, enjoying their holiday, whilst they knew something terrible had happened to Madeleine?  No chance, it would be impossible for so many to possibly do that, and to say perhaps some didn't know, then how could they explain where Madeleine was?

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Searcher on 07.01.17 23:13

If the stakes are high enough, it can be done.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Verdi on 07.01.17 23:35

@BlueBag wrote:Their mission is to muddy waters by adding lots of brown stuff.

However, verifiable evidence and rational thinking will win the day eventually.
They certainly deposit a bilge load of crotte in their wake.  Still, it's a closed shop so irrational thinking prevails.

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by BlueBag on 08.01.17 10:26

@Tony Bennett wrote:An open question to forum members from 'candyfloss':

---------------------

QUOTE

For those who  suggest something happened to Madeleine right at the start of the holiday, and with all this so called 'evidence' they have, which of course is nothing of the sort apart from speculation, that she according to them died earlier...
Based on the fact (their own words) that Kate slept in the children's room on Tuesday night (at least)... I think something may have happened to Madeleine at some point prior to this and the reason Kate was there was to keep an eye on her (hey... they were all doctors and could resuscitate and stuff..) but things badly deteriorated.

Now that is speculation, but it has some basis to it.

As opposed to speculation with nothing to base it on.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Guest on 08.01.17 10:54

Why bring posts over from another forum? What good does it do? What another set people who belong to a different group believe about the same subject is hardly relevant here. As with any topic, subject or issue folks would have differing views. We have to remember the views on this forum cannot always be right.

 Personally if I wanted to read what was going on candyfloss's forum I would join (if I wasn't banned!) and others can do the same. I can't see what's to be gained by constantly referring to them.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.01.17 11:58

HKP wrote:Why bring posts over from another forum? What good does it do? What another set people who belong to a different group believe about the same subject is hardly relevant here. As with any topic, subject or issue folks would have differing views. We have to remember the views on this forum cannot always be right.
@ HKP         The challenge from 'candyfloss' was public. Not all challenges from extraneous sources should be published here.  But in this case I think it is quite right to give it an airing and allow people to respond, whatever their 'take' on what really happened to Madeleine.

After all, candyfloss's challenge goes to the very heart of what fate befell Madeleine.

I also think many members and guests here will be interested in what is said in answer to the challenge, whatever their point of view.

CMMOM is not a forum that doesn't allow other voices. On the contrary. What we don't allow, however, is people to come here with bad, unevidenced theories which fly in the face of much superior evidence. If anyone can bring good evidence in support of candyfloss's case, fine.

The point about how people could carry on as normal after a major disaster, e.g. a child dying in their care, and carrying on just normal, playing tennis, eating out etc. is easily addressed. The answer is that it happens all the time. Look at any case where a individual or family has covered up a crime and it is amazing how they can play-act and carry on as though nothing had happened.

The main charge leveled by candyfloss is that people on this forum are engaged in uninformed, unevidenced speculation.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We have been discussing all sorts of actual evidence.

I would turn the challenge back to candyfloss and those who support her line of thinking, by asking these questions:-

1. Have you read and understood the series of contradictions surrounding the alleged high tea at around 5pm on Thursday 3 May?

2. Have you read, understood and absorbed the evidence presented by Nigel Moore and Dr Martin Roberts which suggests that Kate washed Madeleine' pyjamas on the Thursday morning, photogrpahed them, handed the photograph to Leicestershire Police, then held them up on Crimewatch 5 June and again in Amsterdam 7 June, pretending they were really Amelie's?

3. Have you read, digested and understood HideHo's research, published here and on her site, where she demonstrates that there is no credible sighting of Madeleine, independent of the McCanns and their friends, after Sunday?

4. Have you appreciated the sheer strength of the evidence that the 'Last Photo' was taken on the Sunday?

5. Do you understand that Nuno Lourenco's fabricated sighting of 'Sagresman' (Wojcheich Krokowski) must have been planned well in advance of 10pm on 3 Thurdsay 3 May

6. Do you accept the evidence that Jane Tanner also based her initial description on the very same man - Krokowski?

Unless you stop avoiding and ducking this and other evidence, you are doomed never to gain a true understanding of what really happened that week.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Searcher on 08.01.17 12:24

Well said, if I may, Tony Bennett. Exactly the points that relate.
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Post by Jill Havern on 08.01.17 12:33

It is not part of CMOMM research to answer how or why people behaved in the way they did. We merely observe that they did, and show how sometimes this was incompatible with what they were telling the world - coming out of church etc.

We do not have to 'explain', nor to show how it is far from "impossible' for Savile, Freud, Clifford, Harris, Green, Maxwell, Ponzi, and many others to behave the way they did for so long, despite holding the most dreadful secrets.

The facts are there. If they choose not to look at them there is nothing anyone can do about it.  Their minds are not going to be altered by argument.


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Post by Guest on 08.01.17 12:54

It's not such a terrible question and I don't consider it was a challenge to cmomm. Ok so it's on their open forum however I see quite a lot of 'accusations' etc. over the internet directed either at here or Tony in particular and take the view it's best ignored.  All of your points above could be considered relevant however you make the mistake of using the 'evidence' word. In most cases this is a interpretation of what is in the files or has been pieced together. If all the interpretations made here were actual evidence the case would have been solved long ago.

I appreciate you may feel you are defending cmomm and the members here however I think we should leave other forums to discuss whatever the think is relevant wthout us having to read it here. Only my opinion, others may differ and prefer the animosity.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Guest on 08.01.17 13:13

@BlueBag wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:An open question to forum members from 'candyfloss':

---------------------

QUOTE

For those who  suggest something happened to Madeleine right at the start of the holiday, and with all this so called 'evidence' they have, which of course is nothing of the sort apart from speculation, that she according to them died earlier...
Based on the fact (their own words) that Kate slept in the children's room on Tuesday night (at least)... I think something may have happened to Madeleine at some point prior to this and the reason Kate was there was to keep an eye on her (hey... they were all doctors and could resuscitate and stuff..) but things badly deteriorated.

Now that is speculation, but it has some basis to it.

As opposed to speculation with nothing to base it on.
We only have the Mc's word for it that K slept in the room and what night it was, hardly makes it a fact given all the other lies
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Post by Hesinsenburg on 08.01.17 13:24

@Tony Bennett wrote:

Unless you stop avoiding and ducking this and other evidence, you are doomed never to gain a true understanding of what really happened that week.
I doubt I'll be able to remain long but in answer to this,Tony lets just say for arguments sake,once you have gained a true understanding of what happened under your terms just where will this knowledge get you, go look in the mirror and ask yourself this,I/we on cmomm have a complete understanding of the event's surrounding the mystery of the disappearence of Madeleine Mccann,who is going to answer and congratulate you,the McCanns themselves? Carter Ruck? the PJ? and last but certainly not least any one connected with OG? really?
Its not a competition to the race to the bottom but believing that the knowledge gained on here will in any way influence any one of any standing is sadly misplaced.
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Post by HiDeHo on 08.01.17 14:06

@Tony Bennett wrote:An open question to forum members from 'candyfloss':

---------------------

QUOTE

For those who  suggest something happened to Madeleine right at the start of the holiday, and with all this so called 'evidence' they have, which of course is nothing of the sort apart from speculation, that she according to them died earlier...How on earth do they explain how all those people acted normally for the rest of the week, playing tennis and taking children to creches etc.  Are they seriously trying to tell us they were all such good actors, enjoying their holiday, whilst they knew something terrible had happened to Madeleine?  No chance, it would be impossible for so many to possibly do that, and to say perhaps some didn't know, then how could they explain where Madeleine was?


I would like to make something clear, TO EVERYONE and that is I do not claim that Maddie died on Sunday or Monday.

I believe something happened Sunday or Monday which explains what I have found in the files.


Maybe some dont realise I spent 4 years compiling  hundreds of timetables and timelines from statements and subsequently comparing them to reveal an extraordinary amount of discrepancies......

REMEMBERING MADELEINE REFERENCE FORUM
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann


TIMETABLES COVERING VARIOUS TIMES DURING HOLIDAY
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/All-Timetables-1-79313



STATEMENT COMMENT BY TOPIC
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Statement-Comments-by-Topic-1-64868

Hundreds more pages of researched info from witness statements etc.....


I look at what is in the files (whether true or not but its all I have to work on) and set it out and compare to see what it tells me.

Take the probability of something happening earlier...

I can't change my thoughts on that because its what the files tell me and I have seen nothing to change it since beginning of 2008

I'm not entirely sure  how others came to a similar conclusion, I can only say that the files discrepancies started Tuesday morning and probably logic tells me that they exist because something is being hidden.  The truth of that week had to be covered up and the only way to do it was describe things differently, but when compared to other statements they dont match.

That to me is a good indication of hiding something.  From Tuesday morning (at least)  onwards.

I then tried to prove myself wrong.  I figured if I could find ONE sighting during the week that was specific 'proof' of her being seen then I would have to consider the discrepancies were attributed to another reason....but,  I did not find ONE witness statement after Fatima.

I think we can all agree that she was very specific and also she would not have known that they claimed to go to Paynes apartment at lunch on Sunday so that, for me, when she described them going there was the 'proof' that she really did see them

Some have suggested it wasn't Maddie etc and of course anything is possible but as far as I am concerned this is what the files tell me.

Maddie was seen 1.15pm on Sunday April 29th.

For a while I thought it was Tuesday by the tennis coach, but when I went back and read her statement she may have just been reading from records as she says 'she was in a group' and how likely in the short time she was with them would she remember Maddie specifically?

If she had said something about her twin brother and sister coming on to the court to give her a hug (eg) that would be specific.

If she had said I remember her wearing pink sandals that werent appropriate.... or I recall her mother taking a pic of her when she had an armful of balls then THAT would have been specific...but no...nothing...

The nanny for the twins only claimed to have seen her once (which could have been Sunday Monday)  If she had said that we saw Maddie most days when the twins were dropped off...or when they picked them up then THAT would have been credible.  But...nothing...

The fact there was NOT any specific sighting of her after Sunday does not mean she WASNT seen, only that there is nothing in the files to say she was.

That in itself does not mean a lot.

So... Last seen on Sunday and discrepancies started Tuesday morning...

THATS why I feel something happened during that time.  Not because I tried to explain anything because I figured they needed time in the week to get everything together.

I collated those two simple reasons back in 2010 (or before) and since then have watched and waited for something to prove I'm wrong.

Photoshopping of the last photo was all the rage for a long time.  I never followed with it as I felt it was likely to have been taken another day.  A far easier reason.

Checking 3a I see that I believed something happened earlier, basically from the start so it was logic to me that it wasnt taken on that day.

Unfortunately I dont have to time to be a full participant in threads here, and Tony is aware that I don't always agree with some theories, but I can answer any questions regarding my research on an individual basis.

I DO NOT USE SPECULATION.  I have laid the groundwork of what happened during that week using witness statements and its up to the individual to decide if their theory fits into that 'groundwork'.





If someone can explain ALL of the 50 or more discrepancies that started Tuesday morning...


Title: DISCREPANCY LIST & ALL RESEARCH LINKS (from witness statements)
http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/DISCREPANCY-LIST-ALL-RESEARCH-LINKS-from-witness-statements-1-2309815.html



If someone can show me a witness statement that is specific to Madeleine 'proving' (in a similar way to Fatima) that she was seen during the week then I will re-assess my thoughts based on what is in the files.



Title: Who Saw Madeleine?- Credibility & Statement Highlights
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Re-Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html











I have believed something happened to Maddie earlier in the week since BEFORE MARCH 2008 when I posted this in 3A


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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.01.17 15:24

@Hesinsenburg wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:

Unless you stop avoiding and ducking this and other evidence, you are doomed never to gain a true understanding of what really happened that week.
I doubt I'll be able to remain long but in answer to this, Tony let's just say for argument's sake, once you have gained a true understanding of what happened under your terms just where will this knowledge get you, go look in the mirror and ask yourself this, I/we on CMOMM have a complete understanding of the event's surrounding the mystery of the disappearence of Madeleine McCann, who is going to answer...?

No-one on here, certainly not me, is insisting we have anything like a 'complete' understanding of what happened to Madeleine.

It's not a competition to the race to the bottom but believing that the knowledge gained on here will in any way influence any one of any standing is sadly misplaced.

That is an argument for doing nothing and researching nothing - and I comprehensively reject it. Let me give you just one example. PeterMac has sent literally dozens of analyses of evidence to DCIs Redwood and Wall at Operation Grange over the years. They are meticulously compiled and exhaustively referenced. To my mind they each contain valuable and irrefutable evidence. Has he been wasting his time? He argues that inevitably, there will come a day - no-one knows when and how - when the whole house of cards comes crashing down.  Then, but only then, will it become plain how those entrusted by the state with searching for the truth have done everything in their power to bury it. There will then be a day of reckning for anyone who has knowingly covered anything up.    

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Hesinsenburg on 08.01.17 16:01

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Hesinsenburg wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:

Unless you stop avoiding and ducking this and other evidence, you are doomed never to gain a true understanding of what really happened that week.
I doubt I'll be able to remain long but in answer to this, Tony let's just say for argument's sake, once you have gained a true understanding of what happened under your terms just where will this knowledge get you, go look in the mirror and ask yourself this, I/we on CMOMM have a complete understanding of the event's surrounding the mystery of the disappearence of Madeleine McCann, who is going to answer...?

No-one on here, certainly not me, is insisting we have anything like a 'complete' understanding of what happened to Madeleine.

It's not a competition to the race to the bottom but believing that the knowledge gained on here will in any way influence any one of any standing is sadly misplaced.

That is an argument for doing nothing and researching nothing - and I comprehensively reject it. Let me give you just one example. PeterMac has sent literally dozens of analyses of evidence to DCIs Redwood and Wall at Operation Grange over the years. They are meticulously compiled and exhaustively referenced. To my mind they each contain valuable and irrefutable evidence. Has he been wasting his time? He argues that inevitably, there will come a day - no-one knows when and how - when the whole house of cards comes crashing down.  Then, but only then, will it become plain how those entrusted by the state with searching for the truth have done everything in their power to bury it. There will then be a day of reckning for anyone who has knowingly covered anything up.    
Thanks for the reply I'm far from advocating doing nothing,its the percieved cmmom is the elite forum.This being an example, one is tempted to say DCI Redwood who is he? he's long gone,these dozens of of analyses advanced his thoughts on the investigation how?
Can it be confirmed that Wall is still part of OG?
There is no doubt any way that OG have investigated an abduction as per their remit are you saying that is what PeterMac has been analysing which would be the complete antithesis of what cmomm was about.
Will there come a day when the house of cards come tumbling down? its taken 25 yrs for a supposed resolution in the Ben Needham case,don't hold your breath waiting on this one.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Jill Havern on 08.01.17 16:52

@Hesinsenburg wrote:Thanks for the reply I'm far from advocating doing nothing,its the percieved cmmom is the elite forum.This being an example, one is tempted to say DCI Redwood who is he? he's long gone,these dozens of of analyses advanced his thoughts on the investigation how?
Can it be confirmed that Wall is still part of OG?
There is no doubt any way that OG have investigated an abduction as per their remit are you saying that is what PeterMac has been analysing which would be the complete antithesis of what cmomm was about.
Will there come a day when the house of cards come tumbling down? its taken 25 yrs for a supposed resolution in the Ben Needham case,don't hold your breath waiting on this one.
PeterMac is in communication with DCI Wall.

Have you read PeterMac's e-book? Another new chapter has been added today.

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

Does it look like Peter's research is based on the remit?

Tony is not saying PeterMac's research is based on the remit.

Peter told me that any evidence sent to Grange must be recorded in their Policy's Book and that any evidence discarded must be given a reason why.

Just in case further action is taken.

Please note, that after PeterMac retired from the Police after twenty eight years, do you really think he would waste his time on this case researching for FREE if he didn't think it was worth it?

So while you're still researching flowery artifacts on the Last Photo please be advised that CMOMM moved on from that ages ago. If you perceive this forum as being the 'elite' then that's fine, thank you, compliment taken.

thumbsup
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by BlueBag on 08.01.17 16:56

@HiDeHo wrote:

I would like to make something clear, TO EVERYONE and that is I do not claim that Maddie died on Sunday or Monday.

I believe something happened Sunday or Monday which explains what I have found in the files.

I absolutely agree, that is my opinion also.

Something happened which eventually ended in demise later.

They thought they had it covered.

They didn't.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Hesinsenburg on 08.01.17 17:03

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
@Hesinsenburg wrote:Thanks for the reply I'm far from advocating doing nothing,its the percieved cmmom is the elite forum.This being an example, one is tempted to say DCI Redwood who is he? he's long gone,these dozens of of analyses advanced his thoughts on the investigation how?
Can it be confirmed that Wall is still part of OG?
There is no doubt any way that OG have investigated an abduction as per their remit are you saying that is what PeterMac has been analysing which would be the complete antithesis of what cmomm was about.
Will there come a day when the house of cards come tumbling down? its taken 25 yrs for a supposed resolution in the Ben Needham case,don't hold your breath waiting on this one.
PeterMac is in communication with DCI Wall.

Have you read PeterMac's e-book? Another new chapter has been added today.

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

Does it look like Peter's research is based on the remit?

Tony is not saying PeterMac's research is based on the remit.

Peter told me that any evidence sent to Grange must be recorded in their Policy's Book and that any evidence discarded must be given a reason why.

Just in case further action is taken.

Please note, that after PeterMac retired from the Police after twenty eight years, do you really think he would waste his time on this case researching for FREE if he didn't think it was worth it?

So while you're still researching flowery artifacts on the Last Photo please be advised that CMOMM moved on from that ages ago. If you perceive this forum as being the 'elite' then that's fine, thank you, compliment taken.

thumbsup
Care to show where I am researching flowery artifacts,cmomm may well have moved on,what is clear is that OG haven't unless you can show otherwise a verifiable cite would be useful,I don't perceive this forum is in anyway elite,its your own showing that does that well enough with out any out side influence.
In the very likely  case where it will fail to reach court can you explain if or why any evidence will be discarded and recorded where?
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 29 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 08.01.17 17:08

@Hesinsenburg wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Hesinsenburg wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:Unless you stop avoiding and ducking this and other evidence, you are doomed never to gain a true understanding of what really happened that week.
I doubt I'll be able to remain long but in answer to this, Tony let's just say for argument's sake, once you have gained a true understanding of what happened under your terms just where will this knowledge get you, go look in the mirror and ask yourself this, I/we on CMOMM have a complete understanding of the event's surrounding the mystery of the disappearence of Madeleine McCann, who is going to answer...?

No-one on here, certainly not me, is insisting we have anything like a 'complete' understanding of what happened to Madeleine.

It's not a competition to the race to the bottom but believing that the knowledge gained on here will in any way influence any one of any standing is sadly misplaced.

That is an argument for doing nothing and researching nothing - and I comprehensively reject it. Let me give you just one example. PeterMac has sent literally dozens of analyses of evidence to DCIs Redwood and Wall at Operation Grange over the years. They are meticulously compiled and exhaustively referenced. To my mind they each contain valuable and irrefutable evidence. Has he been wasting his time? He argues that inevitably, there will come a day - no-one knows when and how - when the whole house of cards comes crashing down.  Then, but only then, will it become plain how those entrusted by the state with searching for the truth have done everything in their power to bury it. There will then be a day of reckning for anyone who has knowingly covered anything up.    
Thanks for the reply I'm far from advocating doing nothing, it's the percieved CMOMM is the elite forum.

Where, pray, does his perception come from? It's not something we say about oursleves at all. From time to time I point out that CMOMM is by far the most popular and widely-read forum. That is all. And those are hard facts. It is candyfloss's forum that bigs itself up: 'The friendly forum, no bullying here, no 'party line' here' etc.  Live and let live would be a good principle all round, but tell me why there are now 280 pages and 6,000-plus posts over there bashing CMOMM?     

There is no doubt any way that OG have investigated an abduction as per their remit...

The remit was corrupt. Is that not blindingly obvious by now? 

Will there come a day when the house of cards come tumbling down? it's taken 25 yrs for a supposed resolution in the Ben Needham case...

Longer in other cases. But hey, on with the research. Here on CMOMM, anyways...

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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