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Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Mm11

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Regist10

Another look at the Last photo

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by pendragon2007 on 13.04.16 10:48

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Regal_10

I have posted a composite of two photos of the Regal Rose Hair clipper (from the link provided above) next to Madeleine "Last Photo" clip. I hope this is helpful in deciding what the item is.
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Post by tinkier on 13.04.16 12:02

Thanks @Pendragon2007. @kaz, if you enlarge the photo of Maddie above even more you will see it's not an elastic band. It's a child version of the one on the left. I have three daughters and one of them had exactly the same, she was around 11-12 it was the fashion at the time, lots of her friends had them too. I'm sure it was made of a type of plastic.
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Post by pendragon2007 on 13.04.16 12:48

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Compos13

Hope these clips from Regal Rose website help.
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Post by worriedmum on 13.04.16 15:23

Nope , can't agree. Looks loike an elastic band with a bead on it, wound round and round the hair, to me.  Still amazed that there were no hairs on the band that could have been used for a DNA match...
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Post by whodunit on 13.04.16 19:31

Didn't Kate actually say in her book that she had to take the 'beads' out of Madeleine's hair?

At first glance it does appear to be a plain elastic band in her hair but upon closer inspection I think it looks like two pale pink 'beads' fastened close together.
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Hobs on 13.04.16 20:38

It looks like an elastic bobble which may have a bead on it or a metal piece to link the ends.
Personally it looks more like a simple elastic band rather than anything fancy.
I also noted sensitivity when kate spoke about gently removing it.
Why did she consider it inmportant enough to mention in the first place and then add further sensitivity with the qualifier word GENTLY.

I suspect perhaps something happened in relation to the hair which kate had to explain away in advance.
Did she lose her temper with Maddie whilst trying to remove it and everything went down hill from there resulting in Maddie's death?
Was there something in the hairband which could be indicative of something happening, such as a clump of hair?
Was there something to do with perhaps a missing clump of hair on Maddie's head had her remains been found early on?
Is this perhaps to explain away something found or not found on Maddie, should her remains be found today?

If she removed the 'bobble' would there be hairs in it from Maddie?
I know when i put my hair up in a bobble or similar, at the end of the day when i take it out, there is always at least one hair caught in it.

If she had the bobble, why did she not hand it over to police if it had hairs in it that could provide and DNA sample?
Was there a risk of the hairs revealing something they didn't want found, perhaps evidence of long term sedation?

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Post by whodunit on 13.04.16 22:35

I think it was just to link the hair bobble to that particular day.


The last photo shows a bobble in her hair, Kate mentions taking it out the alleged 'last day' Madeleine was alive.
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Post by tinkier on 13.04.16 22:41

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Maddie11     a better close up, you can quite clearly see the clip…anyway, maybe we should move on.
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Post by Verdi on 13.04.16 23:02

Does the type of hair adornment used by Madeleine have any significance?

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Post by Nina on 13.04.16 23:09

@Verdi wrote:Does the type of hair adornment used by Madeleine have any significance?
Only that Kate mentioned she had removed it gently.

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Post by Verdi on 14.04.16 0:11

@Nina wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Does the type of hair adornment used by Madeleine have any significance?
Only that Kate mentioned she had removed it gently.
Ah - I see!  So it's the innocent explanation for anything and everything the police may or may not find..

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Madeleine-mccann-pa

Talk your way round that one Ms Healy.

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.04.16 1:35

@tinkier wrote:Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Maddie11    
a better close up, you can quite clearly see the clip…anyway, maybe we should move on.
Very helpful @ tinkier, thank you.

Far from 'moving on', I would suggest that there is no time like now to explore the issue of the hair beads in even greater detail.

These are amongst the issues in front of us:

1. We have four photos of Madeleine looking the same age and with the same hair length:

2. These are:
A The Last Photo
B The Make-Up Photo
C The Ice Cream Photo, and
D. Madeleine with her hand in front of her face (photo produced by canada12).

3. Now, three of those photos (A, B and C above) all have Madeleine wearing a pink-coloured hair bead.

4. Further, there are very few (only one I can think of) other photos of Madeleine wearing a hair bead.

5. Then there is Kate McCann's strange preoccupation with both the Last Photo AND the hair bead.

Therefore, a legitmate question which arises from the above is this: were all these four photos - A, B, C and D above - all taken on the very same day?      

One forensic issue that may assist is to explore whether the pink hair beads seen on photos A, B and C are in fact exactly the same hair beads.

I think that would increase the odds that these four photos were all taken on the same day. 

Maybe @ tinkier you might be able to provide us with good enlargements of the hair bead on the other two photos?

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Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Jill Havern on 14.04.16 6:59

@NickE wrote:"@Canada12´s" findings about "the last photo" is very interesting.

Canada12 wrote (Snipped) wrote:Here they are side by side. The similarities in Madeleine's face are closer than any other photo I've seen of Madeleine.
Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 0-side%20by%20side
Once I discovered this photo, I had a look at the top Madeleine was wearing. As you can see, it's a full top with a high neckline.

I then had a close look at the neck area in the LP that is in the shadows. I noticed that there is a very faint pattern in the shadowed area. I thought at first that it was artifacts from the digital reproduction. Then I thought it might have been the reflection of the sun going through her sunhat. Then I enhanced the colours and had a closer look.
Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 0-hi-res-Maddie-pattern
Once I'd seen the extent of the pattern, I realized it was a regular repeating pattern, not a random one. I enhanced it further.

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 0-pattern-4
I then had another look at the blouse Madeleine's wearing in the other photo, and took a swatch of that blouse and superimposed it on the closeup of the enhanced LP.

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 0-pattern-4a
Note that the pattern matches exactly.

Still not convinced? Here's the swatch with the colours deepened and enhanced. 

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 0-pattern-4b
My conclusion? Madeleine's head was photoshopped onto the body in the LP. You can cover the edges with wisps of hair. You paint them in with a fine brush in Photoshop. You further conceal the edges with a hat. And you attempt to darken the joins in the neck area so that it looks like shadow.

Except that the pattern still remains and if you enhance it enough you can see the blouse from the source photo.

Very well done "Canada 12" and very interesting. thumbsup


Peter has said that he's looked at canada12's post that I sent him and he said by looking at the original photo that he does "not see this as clearly as he obviously does!"

I enlarged the original photo and it doesn't look like the one posted in NickE's post - it looks much smoother.

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 300010

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 450010
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Post by Tony Bennett on 14.04.16 7:34

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
I enlarged the original photo and it doesn't look like the one posted in NickE's post - it looks much smoother.


Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 300010

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 450010

I enlarged the original photo and it doesn't look like the one posted in NickE's post - it looks much smoother.

@ Get'emGoncalo

A good start to the day - thank you very much for posting this.

I am afraid that with all due respect to canada12, she has produced little more than a distraction by reviving the suggestion that the Last Photo was a photoshop exercise.

She did however assist us by producing that image of Madeleine with her hand in front of her face - because I agree with her that that Madeleine looks uncannily similar on that photo to her face on the Last Photo.

I hope we may now focus on the issue of the hair beads in the Last Photo, the Ice Cream Photo and Make-Up Photo, and examine whether it was the same hair bead used on all photos.

Not being a tecchie, I don't know how to enlarge them

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Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Jill Havern on 14.04.16 8:07

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 100010

Just to add that when I enlarge the Last Photo taken from Google I get pretty much the same as canada12.

Stark comparison to the one taken from the original.

eta: I enlarged the screenshot from the original 4,000 times and the one from Google 1,000 - if I enlarged it 4,000 times it was just a complete blur.
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Post by Jill Havern on 14.04.16 8:46

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Beads10

This is the best I can do with the beads at the moment, hopefully someone else will have a go.

They don't look the same to me.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 14.04.16 8:51

Get'emGonçalo wrote:Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 100010

Just to add that when I enlarge the Last Photo taken from Google I get pretty much the same as canada12.

Stark comparison to the one taken from the original.

eta: I enlarged the screenshot from the original 4,000 times and the one from Google 1,000 - if I enlarged it 4,000 times it was just a complete blur.


OK, so it seems that certain patterns emerge when you massively enlarge a photo.

That's why even Madeleine's lips, tongue and part of her face also showed an unusual pattern as well. Again with respect, canada12 drew entirely the wrong conclusions from her excessive enlargements which, in a sense, gave a false picture.

We have had the enlargement of the hair beads on the Last Photo, courtesy of 'pendragon'.

I tend to agree that with all the images you have now shown ( thumbsup ) that the middle one looks a different colour and shape, but the ones on the right and left look fairly similar.

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Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Jill Havern on 14.04.16 9:14

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 100010

Just to add that when I enlarge the Last Photo taken from Google I get pretty much the same as canada12.

Stark comparison to the one taken from the original.

eta: I enlarged the screenshot from the original 4,000 times and the one from Google 1,000 - if I enlarged it 4,000 times it was just a complete blur.


OK, so it seems that certain patterns emerge when you massively enlarge a photo.

That's why even Madeleine's lips, tongue and part of her face also showed an unusual pattern as well. Again with respect, canada12 drew entirely the wrong conclusions from her excessive enlargements which, in a sense, gave a false picture.
No, I think the difference is that the smoother enlargement simply comes from the original photo and the other one is just from a replica on Google. Possibly saving a photo changes the image (pixels)...? 

JRP would be able to explain that better.

I enlarged the original photo 1,000/2,000/3,000/4,000 and 5,000 times and it still looked smooth whereas the one from google just looked like the one in canada12's post even when only enlarged 1,000 times. When enlarged more than 1,000 times and it just becomes an unrecognisable blur.

The original photo didn't have "certain patterns emerge" the bigger the enlargement - it still stayed smooth.

If you get me drift....?
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Post by skyrocket on 14.04.16 9:22

@Get'emGoncalo - yes, I agree, not the same. Also, never noticed the small plait above the elastic band (bead?) before.

In the first 'episode' of 'Madeleine Was Here' (strangely light hearted title) at 5.50 mins onwards, Amelie has problems with either an elastic or a bead in her hair. As an aside, this clip leads on to one of the oddest sections for me - where the real Amelie is replaced by a look-a-like Maddie for a short clip when she is playing with the doll at the table. Note GM's words at the time. Very odd and you have to wonder what the motives were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw
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Post by sar on 14.04.16 9:40

@skyrocket wrote:@Get'emGoncalo - yes, I agree, not the same. Also, never noticed the small plait above the elastic band (bead?) before.

...yes, I just noticed this now as well.
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Post by Nina on 14.04.16 9:59

Not relevant to the case, just an observation, but Madeleine had a number of hair adornments. I say adornments as they were not used to say keep her hair out of her eyes. Not having had a little girl in the family since our now 53-year-old daughter was little, is this the trend for little girls to adorn their hair?
In my time as a girl, and that of our daughter, the nearest to dressing the hair was a coloured ribbon on the end of a plait when in Sunday best.

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Post by skyrocket on 14.04.16 10:08

@Nina - I think it's a case of some mums do, some mums don't. Also, I feel fairly confident in saying that MBM's hair shows obvious signs of colouring/streaking in some photos - if correct, very young to be having this done. 'Mini me' springs to mind. I had an old work colleague who dressed her baby daughter/toddler in identical clothes to herself (+hair style) every single day!
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Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by JRP on 14.04.16 10:16

Get'emGonçalo wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
Get'emGonçalo wrote:Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 100010

Just to add that when I enlarge the Last Photo taken from Google I get pretty much the same as canada12.

Stark comparison to the one taken from the original.

eta: I enlarged the screenshot from the original 4,000 times and the one from Google 1,000 - if I enlarged it 4,000 times it was just a complete blur.


OK, so it seems that certain patterns emerge when you massively enlarge a photo.

That's why even Madeleine's lips, tongue and part of her face also showed an unusual pattern as well. Again with respect, canada12 drew entirely the wrong conclusions from her excessive enlargements which, in a sense, gave a false picture.
No, I think the difference is that the smoother enlargement simply comes from the original photo and the other one is just from a replica on Google. Possibly saving a photo changes the image (pixels)...? 

JRP would be able to explain that better.

I enlarged the original photo 1,000/2,000/3,000/4,000 and 5,000 times and it still looked smooth whereas the one from google just looked like the one in canada12's post even when only enlarged 1,000 times. When enlarged more than 1,000 times and it just becomes an unrecognisable blur.

The original photo didn't have "certain patterns emerge" the bigger the enlargement - it still stayed smooth.

If you get me drift....?

Most photographs which appear on the Internet have been reduced in size to speed up loading on websites.
Even the best high res photographs you see on the net will have degradation purely due to the Internet itself creating algorithms which interpret colour, light and shade  etc.

The reduced quality is due to compression of pixels, those little coloured squares which make up a digital photo. They are shunted around and merge and make worm like patterns. Termed as digital artifacts, these become part of an image, embedded in the image data.

If the image is copied, and reissued on the Internet,  then this image gains it's own artifacts. So artifacts on top of artifacts begin to deteriorate an image. 
If an image is grabbed from the Internet and resized, and then republished, it gets worse.

So. The high res version has the least amount of artifacts, and as you go down the chain of copy, copied copy of a reduced copy and so on, more artifacts appear. 

I believe that is what has happened here, they are patterns formed by digital artifacts.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 14.04.16 11:15

@JRP wrote:
...they are patterns formed by digital artifacts.
Many thanks indeed for that and also to Get'emGoncalo for explaining how only images routed via Google produced these digital artifacts on the Last Photo.

It would be very helpful now if @ canada12 could return to the discussion ASAP and let us know if she is now prepared to agree with your expert opinion on this point

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Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Empty Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by canada12 on 14.04.16 11:21

Good morning.
I used the high res version of the LP, as posted by Gestalt:
You may see the entire picture by right clicking on it.

Another look at the Last photo - Page 20 Gestalt-3AsTheKTPHorg

I enlarged it by about 400% on a Mac, using Photoshop. I enhanced the colours. If you have a computer with excellent resolution, as a Mac has (which is why graphic designers love Macs), you will easily see the pattern, and if you enhance the colours, you will see it just as I did.

If you have a PC with a graphics program that doesn't have as good resolution as a Mac does, then your observation of the pattern may not be as precise as someone with a computer which has a better graphics.

I stand by my original posting.

Thank you.

PS - it would be really excellent if PeterMac were to contact me directly, since I did email him privately with this information and invited him to write back. This information has, of course, also been passed along to Operation Grange and the PJ. I'm satisfied that it will be dealt with, and if it is deemed not relevant by them, I'm happy to have made the effort.
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