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Another look at the Last photo

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by sallypelt on 11.04.16 23:37

I am no expert when it comes to photographs, but can someone explain to me why there's a notch in Madeleine's neckline, on the left-hand side? 

I am referring to the eye shadow photograph

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by sallypelt on 11.04.16 23:44



This is the photograph in reverse. This one looks the genuine photograph

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Verdi on 11.04.16 23:48

Madeleine McCann May 2010 Appeal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIWyEdEB00

Video made by Jon Corner - close friend of the McCanns and media mogul and all round good egg.  Jon Corner speaks of Madeleine with Vanity Fair...

"So beautiful, astonishingly bright, and I’d have to say very charismatic. She would shine out of a crowd. So—God forgive me—maybe that’s part of the problem. That special quality. Some ******* picked up on that."

Join the dots.



ETA:  Sorry - maccannfiles again.

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 0:08

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:



Pink strap on the suntop?
@ Get'emGoncalo      Thank you very much for your swift reproduction of these three photos.

Most unfortunately - and especially as this issue is of great importance - I misled you about the 'skirting board' photo - my fault.

The photo I had in mind was actually this one, which has generally been called 'The Ice Cream Photo':



Now, with the aid of the above photo, if that is put alongside the both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo, it might be easier to see what I am driving at. 

No, it's not any pink strap in the suntop. It's something else that's common to all four photos.


P.S.   Let me also make this additional observation. Both the Make-Up Photo and the Ice Cream Photo have a bright blue object of identical colour in the background.

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by JRP on 12.04.16 0:20

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:



Pink strap on the suntop?
@ Get'emGoncalo      Thank you very much for your swift reproduction of these three photos.

Most unfortunately - and especially as this issue is of great importance - I misled you about the 'skirting board' photo - my fault.

The photo I had in mind was actually this one, which has generally been called 'The Ice Cream Photo':



Now, with the aid of the above photo, if that is put alongside the both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo, it might be easier to see what I am driving at. 

No, it's not any pink strap in the suntop. It's something else that's common to all four photos.


P.S.   Let me also make this additional observation. Both the Make-Up Photo and the Ice Cream Photo have a bright blue object of identical colour in the background.
 
Three images have a hair bead or some decoration.  The blue object is a plastic chair.
The blue eye shadow photo is photoshopped, the hair near the ears on both sides  is painted black. It has also caused a cut in her neck.
I think they were taken on the same day, but the last picture is possibly the first of the set.

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 0:33

@canada12 wrote:Just a point of clarification. I never stated that that exact flowered top photo was the one used in the LP.

What I stated (on the other forum) was that I believed several photos were taken in that particular session, and one of those photos from that session, where she is wearing the flowered top, was used to create the face in the LP. Not that exact photo. But a different photo that has a clear image of Madeleine's face looking to the left.
@ canada 12    Thank you very much for that point of clarification (I had a hunt for your original post on here but couldn't find it, so eventually guessed it had been posted elsewhere).  

Now that you have made that clarification, I think it may be possible for us to reach a surprising degree of agreement.

I still wholeheartedly disagree, however, with any suggestion that any image of Madeleine has been photoshopped on to the Last Photo - for all the reasons already given.

Where I do agree with you, and this may be very important, is that I am in full agreement with you that the following three photos were all possibly 'taken in the same photo session':

1. Madeleine with hand in front of her face (the photo you analysed)
2. The Ice Cream Photo, and
3. The Make-Up Photo.

Now, referring back to the Last Photo, not only do we have a lot of circumstantial evidence if the Last Photo (a) being genuime and (b) being taken on the Sunday (29th), but also we have (c) the evidence of a cleaner who saw all 5 members of the McCann family going from their apartment to the Paynes' apartment, with Madeleine clearly identified by the cleaner as wearing a pink tunic, or dress - just as in the Last Photo. This incident took place IIRC between 12.30pm and 1.00pm and is wholly consistent with the Last Photo being a genuine photo taken on the Sunday, after lunch, by the pool.

Now, here is a scenario to consider:

* Last Photo - genuine - taken at say between 1.30pm and 2.30pm n the Sunday

* These three photos taken at a photo shoot later the very same day: (A) Madeleine with hand in front of her face (B) the Ice Cream Photo and (c) the Make-Up Photo.

In further support of this hypothesis:

1. The Last Photo, Make-Up Photo and Ice Cream Photo all have the same very unusual feature (yet to be identified but I'm sure someone will spot it soon)   
2. The Make-Up Photo and Ice Cream Photo both have the same bright blue coloured shape behind Madeleine, and
3. The Make-Up Photo has a yellow stucco background of the type normally found in Mediterranean countries but not in England - a further feature suggesting that this particular photo was taken in Praia da Luz (incidentally the stucco looks very similar to images I have seen of the Solimar (Sol e Mar) apartments where Wojchiech Krokowski stayed that fateful week and where hairs of the same haplotype as Jane Tanner and Robert Murat were also found).

I will leave members to ponder the above hypothesis and either tear it apart or even, maybe, agree that it is a useful working hypothesis

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Verdi on 12.04.16 0:33

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:



Pink strap on the suntop?
@ Get'emGoncalo      Thank you very much for your swift reproduction of these three photos.

Most unfortunately - and especially as this issue is of great importance - I misled you about the 'skirting board' photo - my fault.

The photo I had in mind was actually this one, which has generally been called 'The Ice Cream Photo':



Now, with the aid of the above photo, if that is put alongside the both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo, it might be easier to see what I am driving at. 

No, it's not any pink strap in the suntop. It's something else that's common to all four photos.


P.S.   Let me also make this additional observation. Both the Make-Up Photo and the Ice Cream Photo have a bright blue object of identical colour in the background.
                    ?

I know we've been this way before, maybe - maybe not.  Who in their right mind would publish these atrocious images of their own child when connected with her disappearance?



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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 0:37

@JRP wrote:
Three images have a hair bead or some decoration.  
Bingo! thumbsup

Surely the very same pink hair bead is found on

A The Last Photo
B The Make Up Photo and
C The Ice Cream Photo.

That is surely beyond coincidence, and especially so when - so far as I can recall - I have never seen that same pink hair bead on any other image of Madeleine

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by JRP on 12.04.16 0:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@JRP wrote:
Three images have a hair bead or some decoration.  
Bingo! thumbsup

Surely the very same pink hair bead is found on

A The Last Photo
B The Make Up Photo and
C The Ice Cream Photo.

That is surely beyond coincidence, and especially so when - so far as I can recall - I have never seen that same pink hair bead on any other image of Madeleine
 I'm not too hot on hair beads to be honest, but I gather that once in they're hard to remove, so yes, it's beyond coincidence to think it's not the same day.
The make up photo is taken in daylight, as there are no catchlight's in her eyes from a flash. But it's not harsh sunlight like the one at the poolside, so my guess is that this is early evening.
So the last photo probably isn't the last photo.

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by JRP on 12.04.16 1:01

@Verdi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:



Pink strap on the suntop?
@ Get'emGoncalo      Thank you very much for your swift reproduction of these three photos.

Most unfortunately - and especially as this issue is of great importance - I misled you about the 'skirting board' photo - my fault.

The photo I had in mind was actually this one, which has generally been called 'The Ice Cream Photo':



Now, with the aid of the above photo, if that is put alongside the both the Last Photo and the Make-Up Photo, it might be easier to see what I am driving at. 

No, it's not any pink strap in the suntop. It's something else that's common to all four photos.


P.S.   Let me also make this additional observation. Both the Make-Up Photo and the Ice Cream Photo have a bright blue object of identical colour in the background.
                    ?

I know we've been this way before, maybe - maybe not.  Who in their right mind would publish these atrocious images of their own child when connected with her disappearance?



I think we have to bear in mind that nobody disappeared, but yes they're very adult in style. I think the eye shadow is photoshopped, her skin has been smoothed and the hair near her ears is either painted black, or burned darker.
It's one harrowing image that's for sure.

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by tinkier on 12.04.16 8:15

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@JRP wrote:
Three images have a hair bead or some decoration.  
Bingo! thumbsup

Surely the very same pink hair bead is found on

A The Last Photo
B The Make Up Photo and
C The Ice Cream Photo.

That is surely beyond coincidence, and especially so when - so far as I can recall - I have never seen that same pink hair bead on any other image of Madeleine
Also..her hair looks exactly the same, style length and exactly the same parted fringe in all three photos?
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by skyrocket on 12.04.16 8:32

@TB, not wishing to put a spanner in the works but I think the item in MBM's hair in the 'last photo' may well be a bead, as described by KM (although it looks like an elastic band). The hair passes through this as decoration. The item in her hair in the 'ice cream photo' looks like a hair clip (holds the hair upwards) as is the item in the 'makeup photo'. The 'makeup photo' clip looks like a small pink bow. That said, I agree that MBM looks the 'same' agewise; hair; in all three/four photos.

The top MBM is wearing in the 'ice cream photo' is a different white/pink flowery top to the smock top in the 'last photo'. A better view of it can be seen here:

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Maddie5-17.jpg

I'm not at all comfortable that the blue items behind MBM in the 'ice cream photo' and the 'makeup photo' are the same blue. I'm not sure why the balcony photo has been reproduced unless it is just as an example of blue chairs - this photo has been discounted as the Burgau apartment in previous threads as there are no blue balconies and the building looks quite different. Quite a lot on the following thread:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11479p50-sally-anne-eveleigh-sally-eveleigh-one-and-the-same-robert-murat-s-aunt-or-cousin-or-both-maddie-eyeshadow-photo-and-burgau?highlight=Sally+eveleigh

I also think that the 'eye shadow photo' was taken in Portugal - it looks outdoors to me and the walls look like they're in the Med. I find this photo very disturbing.

Whilst your all online - I did ask before, does anyone know if any of the Luz 'holiday photos' of MBM (playground) were released before the 'last photo' or was it only the 'tennis ball' photo in circulation before the 25/26 May?
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 9:09

@JRP wrote:
POST 1: Three images have a hair bead or some decoration.  The blue object is a plastic chair. The blue eye shadow photo is photoshopped, the hair near the ears on both sides is painted black. It has also caused a cut in her neck. I think they were taken on the same day, but the 'last picture' is possibly the first of the set.

POST 2:  I'm not too hot on hair beads to be honest, but I gather that once in they're hard to remove, so yes, it's beyond coincidence to think it's not the same day. The make up photo is taken in daylight, as there are no catchlights in her eyes from a flash. But it's not harsh sunlight like the one at the poolside, so my guess is that this is early evening. So the Last Photo probably isn't the last photo.
@ JRP   Thank you very much for your input here. It is appreciated.

I have a few comments and questions please on the bits I've bolded above. 

On the subject of the 'Make-Up Photo', are you aware that following its publication on Jon Corner's video... (a) the McCanns put out a statement that the make-up was 'the result of Madeleine finding and playing with Mummy's make-up box' and (b) there was a considerable amount of controversy about it. Even some mainstream commentators put pen to paper to express disagreement with its publication, saying e.g. that it was 'inappropriate' to publish it.

We have always thought until now that an adult must have applied the make-up, put the necklace on Madeleine, and put the hair bead in etc. How sure can you be that the make-up has been photoshopped rather than actually present around Madeleine's eyes?

Finally, do you have any comment on this suggestion:

'Last Photo' taken lunchtime (around 1.30pm to 2.30pm) in bright sunlight...

...then all these three being taken at some kind of photo shot later the same day: (a) Madeleine with hand in front of her face (the one that canada12 produced and analysed), (b) Make-Up Photo, (c) Ice Cream Photo.

Thanks

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 9:10

@tinkier wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
Surely the very same pink hair bead is found on

A The Last Photo
B The Make Up Photo and
C The Ice Cream Photo.

That is surely beyond coincidence, and especially so when - so far as I can recall - I have never seen that same pink hair bead on any other image of Madeleine
Also..her hair looks exactly the same, style length and exactly the same parted fringe in all three photos?
Yes, I noticed that, I'm waiting to see if others agree

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 9:24

@skyrocket wrote:@TB, not wishing to put a spanner in the works but I think the item in MBM's hair in the Llast Photo' may well be a bead, as described by KM (although it looks like an elastic band). The hair passes through this as decoration. The item in her hair in the 'Ice Cream Photo' looks like a hair clip (holds the hair upwards) as is the item in the 'Make-Up Photo'. The 'Make-Up Photo' clip looks like a small pink bow. That said, I agree that MBM looks the 'same' agewise; hair; in all three/four photos.

REPLY: Thank you. I have no problem with 'spanners in the works' if I have got something wrong. I will see if others think it is the 'same' hair bead or not.  IF these photos WERE taken in the same day, it's clear that the 'hair bead' has been moved between photographs, I suppose it could be some kind of hair clip with some pink ribbon attached to it , which might explain why it looks a little different in al three photos? 

The top MBM is wearing in the 'Ice Cream Photo' is a different white/pink flowery top to the smock top in the Llast Photo'. A better view of it can be seen here:

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Maddie5-17.jpg

REPLY: Yes, the hypothesis that all four photos took place on the same day involves suggesting that he clothing was changed during the 'photo shoot'.  

I'm not at all comfortable that the blue items behind MBM in the 'Ice Cream Photo' and the 'Make-Up Photo' are the same blue.

REPLY: Noted.

I'm not sure why the balcony photo has been reproduced unless it is just as an example of blue chairs - this photo has been discounted as the Burgau apartment in previous threads as there are no blue balconies and the building looks quite different. Quite a lot on the following thread:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11479p50-sally-anne-eveleigh-sally-eveleigh-one-and-the-same-robert-murat-s-aunt-or-cousin-or-both-maddie-eyeshadow-photo-and-burgau?highlight=Sally+eveleigh

REPLY: OK, maybe I am wrong in thinking that the balcony photo with the blue chairs is the Sol e Mar apartments where Wojcheich Krokowski stayed that week, However, would you agree that the yellow/ochre stucco and blue chairs seen on the 'Balcony Photo are consistent with what we see on the 'Make-Up Photo'? It could be a different balcony in Praia da L:uz somewhere?  

I also think that the 'eye shadow photo' was taken in Portugal - it looks outdoors to me and the walls look like they're in the Med. I find this photo very disturbing.

REPLY: Fully agreed.

Whilst you're all online - I did ask before, does anyone know if any of the Luz 'holiday photos' of MBM (playground) were released before the 'Last Photo' or was it only the 'Tennis Ball Photo in circulation before the 25/26 May?

REPLY: Excluding the Last Photo and the Tennis Balls Photo, so far as I am aware we only have the three 'Playground Photos' which were clearly taken late afternoon/early evening on the Saturday. AFAIK we did not see any of these until the PJ DVD was released in late July 2008  [since corrected by canada12, below - T.B.]   

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by canada12 on 12.04.16 10:03

If you go to the Bruno Press site and do a search for Madeleine McCann, you get about 57 pages of pictures. If you go to page 42 (or close to page 42) you can see the photo of Madeleine standing by herself in the pink top and trousers at the OC.

http://www.brunopress.nl/

The date of that photo, which is close to when it was released to the public, is 25-05-2007.

You should be able to find the other playground photos there but if not, I believe they were all released around the same time, roundabout the time the LP was issued.

ETA - Madeleine in playhouse doorway picture, 26-05-2007

Playground photo with Madeleine Gerry and Sean 27-05-2007

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Roidininki on 12.04.16 10:31

While I can't argue against Madeleine looking the same age in all three photos  , the point  you're making is what?
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by NickE on 12.04.16 10:33


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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.04.16 10:40

@Roidininki wrote:While I can't argue against Madeleine looking the same age in all three photos, the point you're making is what?
If that question was for me, I am - for several reasons given up this thread - putting forward the hypothesis that all four photos could have been taken on Sunday 29 April, viz:

1 Last Photo
2 Photo of Madeleine with hand in front of her face
3 Make Up Photo
4 Ice Cream Photo

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Roidininki on 12.04.16 10:45

Re the eye makeup photo ,according to her parents no one called her Maddie ? Yet this looks as if it's labelled as such  to be part of  a lot destined to be in a folder of children in poses such as this.
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by tinkier on 12.04.16 10:58

@Roidininki wrote:While I can't argue against Madeleine looking the same age in all three photos  , the point  you're making is what?
Roidininki….your choice of words sometimes come over as being rather rude, maybe it's just me that thinks this, but I have noticed this about you on previous occasions. Apologies in advance if this upsets you, just pointing it out!
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by skyrocket on 12.04.16 10:59

@TB & @canada12- thanks for your replies re: the photo releases.

So: 
-tennis photo released by Pat Perkins via email on 7 May (wonder where she got the copy from) and by the press on the 10 May
-last photo and playground photos released 26/27 May, after GM's visit to the UK 

Yes @TB, I agree that the 'eyeshadow photo' seems likely to have been taken in or around Luz. Outdoors; next to a doorway of some sort; possibly blue chair or could MBM be sitting on an adults knee with a blue T Shirt? Not sure which. Looks like some sort of metal bracket on the wall which took me to Salsalito (peach stucco) but haven't been able to match it up. I too believe that the blue colour is not applied makeup. An adult would have done a much better job and a child worse. It also looks unnatural somehow. The head angle bothers me a lot - looks like MBM's head is being held up to get her very dull eyes seemingly looking directly at the camera lens. Note the camera position is low, looking upwards to facilitate this. Very unpleasant and as @Verdi said - why on earth was it released?

@canada12 - did you use the high res photo for your analysis? Interesting stuff. 

I've got another couple of photos for you:

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Irland4647701.jpg

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/11feb8/DONEGAL.jpg

What is going on with MBM's hands and the ice cream cone (where's the bottom of the cone and why isn't she holding the cone)?

Also:

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/_m/maddy_%20(14).jpg

Why does it look like part of Amelie's jacket between MBM's neck and hair on our left?

Apologies if last bit off topic and I do appreciate that any anomalies pre: Luz opens a can of worms.
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Roidininki on 12.04.16 10:59

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:While I can't argue against Madeleine looking the same age in all three photos, the point you're making is what?
If that question was for me, I am - for several reasons given up this thread - putting forward the hypothesis that all four photos could have been taken on Sunday 29 April, viz:

1 Last Photo
2 Photo of Madeleine with hand in front of her face
3 Make Up Photo
4 Ice Cream Photo
I see .D'you think on the holiday  tho anyone would be bothered to put the awful makeup on Madeleine unless done for a purpose ?Altho those who I showed this to were pretty aghast that I should suggest an adult had done ,telling me my thoughts were disgusting ,it was just a child playing with mummy's makeup.
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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by Roidininki on 12.04.16 11:02

Oh sorry I come across as you've described . How would you have said what I said in a different way? 
@tinkier wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:While I can't argue against Madeleine looking the same age in all three photos  , the point  you're making is what?
Roidininki….your choice of words sometimes come over as being rather rude, maybe it's just me that thinks this, but I have noticed this about you on previous occasions. Apologies in advance if this upsets you, just pointing it out!
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Roidininki

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Re: Another look at the Last photo

Post by JRP on 12.04.16 11:34

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@JRP wrote:
POST 1: Three images have a hair bead or some decoration.  The blue object is a plastic chair. The blue eye shadow photo is photoshopped, the hair near the ears on both sides is painted black. It has also caused a cut in her neck. I think they were taken on the same day, but the 'last picture' is possibly the first of the set.

POST 2:  I'm not too hot on hair beads to be honest, but I gather that once in they're hard to remove, so yes, it's beyond coincidence to think it's not the same day. The make up photo is taken in daylight, as there are no catchlights in her eyes from a flash. But it's not harsh sunlight like the one at the poolside, so my guess is that this is early evening. So the Last Photo probably isn't the last photo.
@ JRP   Thank you very much for your input here. It is appreciated.

I have a few comments and questions please on the bits I've bolded above. 

On the subject of the 'Make-Up Photo', are you aware that following its publication on Jon Corner's video... (a) the McCanns put out a statement that the make-up was 'the result of Madeleine finding and playing with Mummy's make-up box' and (b) there was a considerable amount of controversy about it. Even some mainstream commentators put pen to paper to express disagreement with its publication, saying e.g. that it was 'inappropriate' to publish it.

We have always thought until now that an adult must have applied the make-up, put the necklace on Madeleine, and put the hair bead in etc. How sure can you be that the make-up has been photoshopped rather than actually present around Madeleine's eyes?

Finally, do you have any comment on this suggestion:

'Last Photo' taken lunchtime (around 1.30pm to 2.30pm) in bright sunlight...

...then all these three being taken at some kind of photo shot later the same day: (a) Madeleine with hand in front of her face (the one that canada12 produced and analysed), (b) Make-Up Photo, (c) Ice Cream Photo.

Thanks

The wall behind Madeleine appears to be reasonably sharp, as does her hair. If the camera focused on her face, then why does that not show as much detail as in her hair which is almost on the same plane.
The skin is smooth, probably done with a blur or smudge tool in Photoshop. Then the skin is almost one colour, a flat pancake, possible light almost translucent paint.
The blue eyeshadow is again all one flat colour, if it was real there would be light and shade. Also, the eyeshadow blue covers eyelashes. All of this leads me to believe this is a digital makeover and not something from mummy's box.
The hair on both sides near both ears has been darkened, I think with a burning tool found in photoshop or a simple black spray. 
It looks like this has strayed into her neck, but I can't say for sure. But there is a notch which may need some other explanation.

I would say that the Blue Eye Shadow, the Ice Cream Photo were taken on the same day somewhere in Luz. I would think they are part of a photo set/shoot but thats just my own opinion. I hadn't seen the one Canada12 used before so I will reserve judgement for now.

As for the Last Photo. Canada12 's suggestion is interesting. But the difficulty and complexity of making a face from another shoot fit a body sat poolside is a huge ask. There's more to it than just a simple face exchange IMO.

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