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DP is the key

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DP is the key

Post by phil_burton on 12.10.14 18:35

I've been doing a lot of reading, and watching videos the last few weeks about this case.

I'm now firmly if the opinion that David Payne holds the key to this whole mystery.

His testimony of what happened between 5pm and 7pm on May 3rd is littered with inconsistencies, couple this with the gaspar statements and you've got a worrying combination. Also, look at the protection he has received, both from Leicester police, and from the press.

I believe DP was in 5a during mid to late afternoon on the 3rd, and this is when MM died, she was then left in situ for a little while, whilst a plan was hatched.

In his statements, DP is overly keen to emphasise that the kids were alive and well - too keen. This to me serves as confirmation that MM died before 630pm.

This then calls in to question the game of tennis and DPs fleeting visit to the beach restuarant.

I believe MM was disposed of as soon as darkness fell that evening. I believe DP was involved in the accident or whatever killed MM, but he then had a hand in bringing Murat in on events.

All my opinion of course!

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Re: DP is the key

Post by margaret on 12.10.14 18:40

You're right PB.  Plus.... He rang a child protection units number the night Madeleine went missing (someone else will clarify exactly what it was), Yvonne Martin who worked in child protection thought she recognised him from her work, whilst DP was keen for no-one to speak to her, the Gaspar statements, his like for bathing the children on a previous holiday, his talk of a 'pact'.

In fact, did he turn up at 5a at that time to bathe the children that night?

Would you protect a man like him if your daughter went missing on that holiday and you knew nothing of the above?

The list is almost endless. Suspicious little man all round!
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Re: DP is the key

Post by Doug D on 12.10.14 19:06

From the initial statements:

Diane Webster 4th May 2007
 
‘Concerning the day yesterday, she went to the beach with the children, her son-in-law and her daughter. They arrived there at around 3.45pm and left at around 6.15pm to go to the tennis courts where she stayed until 7pm. The informant then went to the apartment with the small children and ten minutes later, her son-in-law, David, joined them. With her son-in-law's help, they bathed the children.’
 
 
Fiona Payne 4th May 2007
 
'Yesterday they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne. They arrived there around 15H45 and left at 18H15, and headed towards the tennis court until about 19H00. Immediately afterwards, the witness headed towards the apartment with her children, and her mother. Ten minutes later her husband David appeared. In the apartment her mother, helped by her husband David, bathed the children whilst the witness went jogging on the beach until around 20H00. Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.'
 
David Payne 4th May 2007
 
No mention
 
Yet RO suggests something different, she went to the beach with the other girls but no mention of David till they got there.
If MO & RO'B were sailing, why would David have been with them?


Rachel Oldfield 11th May 2007
 
'After the game of tennis, the witness returned home to rest, her husband (Matthew) and RUSSEL having gone to the beach of Luz to sail. At about 15:45, her daughter having woken up, she took her to the beach of Luz in the company of DIANE, Jane, Fiona and their respective children, where they found MATHEW, RUSSEL and DAVTD. At 17H30 the children dined in one of restaurants by the beach, [she] not having detected any abnormal or strange situation.'

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Re: DP is the key

Post by AndyB on 12.10.14 19:08

margaret wrote:Plus.... He rang a child protection units number the night Madeleine went missing (someone else will clarify exactly what it was)
Why would a guilty man do this?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by Guest on 12.10.14 19:09

margaret wrote:You're right PB.  Plus.... He rang a child protection units number the night Madeleine went missing (someone else will clarify exactly what it was), Yvonne Martin who worked in child protection thought she recognised him from her work, whilst DP was keen for no-one to speak to her, the Gaspar statements, his like for bathing the children on a previous holiday, his talk of a 'pact'.

In fact, did he turn up at 5a at that time to bathe the children that night?

Would you protect a man like him if your daughter went missing on that holiday and you knew nothing of the above?

The list is almost endless. Suspicious little man all round!
I have often wondered that, margaret.
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Re: DP is the key

Post by BlueBag on 12.10.14 19:16

Fiona Payne 4th May 2007
 
'Yesterday they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne.

As every copper knows... big red flag!
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Re: DP is the key

Post by margaret on 12.10.14 20:22

AndyB wrote:
margaret wrote:Plus.... He rang a child protection units number the night Madeleine went missing (someone else will clarify exactly what it was)
Why would a guilty man do this?

Because he was frightened. Do you think it was his decision to cover up what happened?
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Re: DP is the key

Post by AndyB on 12.10.14 20:34

margaret wrote:
AndyB wrote:
margaret wrote:Plus.... He rang a child protection units number the night Madeleine went missing (someone else will clarify exactly what it was)
Why would a guilty man do this?

Because he was frightened. Do you think it was his decision to cover up what happened?
No, my own view is that he is only on the periphery of whatever happened but I don't follow your reasoning. If DP was the sort of person that the Gasper statements might be perceived as implying, and if he is in some way implicated in what happened to Madeleine, why would he ring child protection services? It doesn't make any sense. Yet you seem to be suggesting that its suspicious behaviour. I don't understand why I should regard the ringing of child protection as a red flag. To me it points the other way.

Do we know the specifics of which child protection agency he rang?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 12.10.14 20:52

AndyB wrote:
margaret wrote:
AndyB wrote:
margaret wrote:Plus.... He rang a child protection units number the night Madeleine went missing (someone else will clarify exactly what it was)
Why would a guilty man do this?

Because he was frightened. Do you think it was his decision to cover up what happened?
No, my own view is that he is only on the periphery of whatever happened but I don't follow your reasoning. If DP was the sort of person that the Gasper statements might be perceived as implying, and if he is in some way implicated in what happened to Madeleine, why would he ring child protection services? It doesn't make any sense. Yet you seem to be suggesting that its suspicious behaviour. I don't understand why I should regard the ringing of child protection as a red flag. To me it points the other way.

Do we know the specifics of which child protection agency he rang?

I put a lot of credence on the Gasper statements as it was not an easy decision to make given they were not only reporting another doctor (which is sacrosanct) but also involving their 'friends'. Why did DP phone child protection? Don't think he ever satisfactory answered that question. All imo

Should this thread not be in the theories section?
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Re: DP is the key

Post by jeanmonroe on 13.10.14 0:25

David Payne's witness statement to Leicestershire Police 11th April 08

DC Messiah

"Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth"....... (concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.)

DP

"Err, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up".

DC Messiah.

"OK"

So why is David Payne withholding evidence? By his own statement he has important information on what happened to Madeleine. Did the Leicestershire Police follow this up? If not why not?
==================================================

I have been 'banging on' about Payne's 'FEW THINGS' for YEARS now!

When are we going to hear that DCI Mahogany has ASKED Payne about the 'few things' Payne KNOWS that he considers 'pertinent and RELEVENT, to ESTABLISH the MATERIAL TRUTH, about a 3 years old child's 'disappearance'?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by plebgate on 13.10.14 0:31

Glad you keep banging on about this JeanM.    People need reminding of it imo.    How was that comment allowed to be made and not followed up?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by biggles on 13.10.14 7:58

My theory for DP's phonecall was to call in a favour to someone he knew.... the whole 'my sister gave me the number to call' is BS... he knew who he was contacting imo.

http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/so-david-payne-makes-a-phone-call/

If we believe the link above; we don't know who he called, or what department it was..  but no matter; what if the agency was compromised? i.e., what if there were people there, known to DP/GM, who had managed to gain a position that enabled them to protect/subvert/support child-abusers?  

By making the call DP inadvertently shone a light on a relationship between GM/DP and the Met/SOCA/whatever it was. A relationship that should never have existed. 

If the paedophile angle to this saga is correct, this would be a plausible reason for 'the establishment' to mobilize it's support and start covering its tracks. The Met in particular is renowned for being corrupt, and for its unceasing efforts to cover up the crimes-from-within. A clumsy (or deliberate?) phone-call forced the establishment to protect the mccann's, in order to keep a lid on the bigger scandle back at home

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Re: DP is the key

Post by canada12 on 13.10.14 8:16

Perhaps not so much calling in a favour as warning someone...?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by canada12 on 13.10.14 8:21

jeanmonroe wrote:David Payne's witness statement to Leicestershire Police 11th April 08

DC Messiah

"Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth"....... (concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.)

DP

"Err, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up".

DC Messiah.

"OK"

So why is David Payne withholding evidence? By his own statement he has important information on what happened to Madeleine. Did the Leicestershire Police follow this up? If not why not?
==================================================

I have been 'banging on' about Payne's 'FEW THINGS' for YEARS now!

When are we going to hear that DCI Mahogany has ASKED Payne about the 'few things' Payne KNOWS that he considers 'pertinent and RELEVENT, to ESTABLISH the MATERIAL TRUTH, about a 3 years old child's 'disappearance'?

It sounds to me like he was either angling to do a deal in exchange for providing information, or he had the goods on someone else of importance, and was hinting that he wanted to talk to someone with more authority than this police officer.

I can't imagine this comment of his being ignored. Is it possible he made additional statements which haven't been released to us?


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Re: DP is the key

Post by HelenMeg on 13.10.14 9:41

phil_burton wrote:I've been doing a lot of reading, and watching videos the last few weeks about this case.

I'm now firmly if the opinion that David Payne holds the key to this whole mystery.

His testimony of what happened between 5pm and 7pm on May 3rd is littered with inconsistencies, couple this with the gaspar statements and you've got a worrying combination. Also, look at the protection he has received, both from Leicester police, and from the press.

I believe DP was in 5a during mid to late afternoon on the 3rd, and this is when MM died, she was then left in situ for a little while, whilst a plan was hatched.

In his statements, DP is overly keen to emphasise that the kids were alive and well - too keen. This to me serves as confirmation that MM died before 630pm.

This then calls in to question the game of tennis and DPs fleeting visit to the beach restuarant.

I believe MM was disposed of as soon as darkness fell that evening. I believe DP was involved in the accident or whatever killed MM, but he then had a hand in bringing Murat in on events.

All my opinion of course!
So this theory suggests that DP was in the apartment with M on the afternoon of the 3rd and she dies as a result of something going on there, or whilst something is going on there?
Do we have the times of DP's 'fleeting ' visit to Beach restaurant Paraiso? I think we seem him leave and it is around 5.30pm but do we see the time he arrives?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by JohnyT on 13.10.14 9:43

....the wrong forum?......maybe he should have joined this one!
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Re: DP is the key

Post by Guest on 13.10.14 10:03

Canada12 @ 8.21am.  I think you've made an interesting point.  Possibly DP's been silenced since?

Do I remember correctly that DP & FP were not included or named in October '13 CW?
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Re: DP is the key

Post by canada12 on 13.10.14 10:12

Ladyinred wrote:Canada12 @ 8.21am.  I think you've made an interesting point.  Possibly DP's been silenced since?

Do I remember correctly that DP & FP were not included or named in October '13 CW?

You remember correctly. Their names were notably missing from the "group" that met for dinner. And we've been speculating about the reason for this ever since.

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Re: DP is the key

Post by Doug D on 13.10.14 10:26

HelenMeg:
 
Earliest Paraiso CCTV we have I believe is 17.31 showing just ‘the girls’.
 
17.52 David Payne (dark glasses, behind parasol) and Russell O'Brien (short sleeved shirt, back to camera) arrive. Dianne Webster, Jane Tanner, Fiona Payne and Rachael Oldfield are seated. Matt Oldfield stands to allow David Payne access to his seat 
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id213.html
 
It would obviously be interesting to see earlier shots, but presumably the PJ had access to them but they were not released for whatever reason.

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Re: DP is the key

Post by palm tree on 13.10.14 10:37

Also, if you check the missing pages on the PJ files it does consider there could have been more than one statement from DP. I didn't know there was one never mind the possibility of more. There seems to be a lot held back relating to child abuse and the p word.
IMO

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Re: DP is the key

Post by Guest on 13.10.14 10:51

DP and the rest successfully sued Express newspapers for libel.  So he's done nothing wrong, ok?
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Re: DP is the key

Post by HelenMeg on 13.10.14 11:26

Doug D wrote:HelenMeg:
 
Earliest Paraiso CCTV we have I believe is 17.31 showing just ‘the girls’.
 
17.52 David Payne (dark glasses, behind parasol) and Russell O'Brien (short sleeved shirt, back to camera) arrive. Dianne Webster, Jane Tanner, Fiona Payne and Rachael Oldfield are seated. Matt Oldfield stands to allow David Payne access to his seat 
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id213.html
 
It would obviously be interesting to see earlier shots, but presumably the PJ had access to them but they were not released for whatever reason.
Thanks Doug D!

So Matt was already there (one of the girls lol) but stood up to allow DP access to his seat (does that indicate DP had already been there sitting down previously? dont know) .
Anyway, I still think that the visit may have been strategically planned to enable them to be caught on the CCTV  (but why?).  Then DP left about 20 mins later (I think). There was social tennis session planned for early evening. Where were Mc Canns at the time the others were in Paraiso?

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Re: DP is the key

Post by Guest on 13.10.14 12:10

jeanmonroe wrote:David Payne's witness statement to Leicestershire Police 11th April 08

DC Messiah

"Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth"....... (concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.)

DP

"Err, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up".

DC Messiah.

"OK"

So why is David Payne withholding evidence? By his own statement he has important information on what happened to Madeleine. Did the Leicestershire Police follow this up? If not why not?
==================================================

I have been 'banging on' about Payne's 'FEW THINGS' for YEARS now!

When are we going to hear that DCI Mahogany has ASKED Payne about the 'few things' Payne KNOWS that he considers 'pertinent and RELEVENT, to ESTABLISH the MATERIAL TRUTH, about a 3 years old child's 'disappearance'?

Could this maybe throw a little light on the subject?

To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT.htm
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Re: DP is the key

Post by Guest on 13.10.14 12:17

biggles wrote:My theory for DP's phonecall was to call in a favour to someone he knew.... the whole 'my sister gave me the number to call' is BS... he knew who he was contacting imo.

http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/so-david-payne-makes-a-phone-call/

If we believe the link above; we don't know who he called, or what department it was..  but no matter; what if the agency was compromised? i.e., what if there were people there, known to DP/GM, who had managed to gain a position that enabled them to protect/subvert/support child-abusers?  

By making the call DP inadvertently shone a light on a relationship between GM/DP and the Met/SOCA/whatever it was. A relationship that should never have existed. 

If the paedophile angle to this saga is correct, this would be a plausible reason for 'the establishment' to mobilize it's support and start covering its tracks. The Met in particular is renowned for being corrupt, and for its unceasing efforts to cover up the crimes-from-within. A clumsy (or deliberate?) phone-call forced the establishment to protect the mccann's, in order to keep a lid on the bigger scandle back at home

Can anybody tell me who is behind Madeleine - The Truth forum formerly Regrets and Ramblings formerly the 3As?  A very dramatic U-turn without much substance to justify the change of opinion. 

The link you posted seems to be a bit of a double sided coin, depending on the viewpoint.  This person is apparently defending DP but at the same time seems to be dropping him well and truly in the mire.  My opinion of course!
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Re: DP is the key

Post by Doug D on 13.10.14 13:08

HelenMeg:
 
‘Where were Mc Canns at the time the others were in Paraiso?’
 
Suggested sighting of KM @ 17.38.08 on the beach, facing the camera.
 
If this is her, she also appears in the 17.46.07 shot, so didn’t get too far on her run. I don't know if there are any other pictures of her wearing a top like this anywhere.
 
She was also supposed to be at ‘high tea’ with GM and the kids at  about 17.20/17.30, although she didn’t come up with this in her statement until 6th September 2007.
 
There was no suggestion of this or the run in either KM or GM statements of 4th May and in GM’s statement of 10th May:
 
Tennis court ‘vacancy between 14H30 and 15H30. As it was already 15h00, they began to play immediately. At 15H30, the tennis instructor arrived, who taught them a class until 16H30.
They stayed there, talking, until 16H45, at which time the twins went to the meal area. At 17h00, as usual, MADELEINE arrived accompanied by the nannies and the other children. After her arrival, MADELEINE dined, having finished at 17H30.

It is also noticeable that in the first two statements it describes what the usually did around tea time, not what they actually did.

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