Have the pro McCanns shot themselves in the foot?

by frost 08.10.14 8:25

I have been mulling ove the events of the last week and I am now wondering if the pro McCanns have actually shot themselves in the foot.

On handing in this so called dossier which was the catalayst for this weeks events , they have in return admitted that they have actually been stalking all the people that they have actually so called named and shamed in this dossier .

They have collected 'evidence' of where people live , where they work , their families , friends even posted pictures of peoples pets as far as I am aware .

This by definition is STALKING !

They did not have permission to do this and their 'victims' were unaware they were doing it until their details were posted online via the likes of twitter , facebook and in their various so called McCann support groups .

The police do need to look at this dossier indeed they need to go through it with a fine tooth comb and then question these pro Mccann vigillantes about how exactly they collated these peoples details especially if there are photographs and other details which have not appeared online .

I hope every single one of them who has been collating this so called evidence gets charged they are all wether directly or indirectly responsible for Brendas death .

by Guest 08.10.14 8:29

There is a slippery slope here.

By calling for a clampdown on the pros we are slipping away from freedom of speech. It's two edged.

I'm sure there are certain parties who don't mind who gets clamped down on so long as the clampdown powers increase.

by frost 08.10.14 8:36

BlueBag wrote:There is a slippery slope here.

By calling for a clampdown on the pros we are slipping away from freedom of speech. It's two edged.

I'm sure there are certain parties who don't mind who gets clamped down on so long as the clampdown powers increase.

there is a huge difference between stalking someone and freedom of speech .

Stalking is a criminal offence for starters .

Posting someones personal details like address or place of work especially if these details have been aquired by underhand methods like following someone is not freedom of speech it is stalking .

by Briohazard 08.10.14 8:37

I know ONE way they've shot themselves in the foot. I've had at least ten previously uninterested friends come to me declaring their interest in MBM and looking at the PJ files independently. They've each discussed their realisations to other people.

Not one of them think Madeleine has been abducted... All because of the bias of the Media and the way BL was treated INDEPENDENTLY directed them to look further into the abyss.

I live in Australia where the interest is low... I am only imagining what's happened from this in the UK!!! And if it's anything like here, TM has shot themselves in the foot very very badly!!

by Joss 08.10.14 8:42

BlueBag wrote:There is a slippery slope here.

By calling for a clampdown on the pros we are slipping away from freedom of speech. It's two edged.

I'm sure there are certain parties who don't mind who gets clamped down on so long as the clampdown powers increase.

That is true, but Stalking people as far as i know is a criminal act. I feel it is more a case of if laws have been violated then the people that have done so need to be held to account for the breaking of those laws just like any other person who does and are then charged with a crime.
Definitely threatening someone's life with killing them or wanting them dead is a violation of such laws, as we have read that one person did just that. That person needs to be charged with their crime.

by plebgate 08.10.14 8:47

Didn't one of the messages also say that Brenda deserved to be raped? How sickening is that? I can't see that another woman would ever tweet something like that.

I saw someone tweet to say that they had reported the person who posted those absolutely foul and disgusting messages to the FBI.

Brenda's son is living in America, maybe he can sue the person or demand action against the tweeter.

by frost 08.10.14 8:48

Briohazard wrote:I know ONE way they've shot themselves in the foot. I've had at least ten previously uninterested friends come to me declaring their interest in MBM and looking at the PJ files independently. They've each discussed their realisations to other people.

Not one of them think Madeleine has been abducted... All because of the bias of the Media and the way BL was treated INDEPENDENTLY directed them to look further into the abyss.

I live in Australia where the interest is low... I am only imagining what's happened from this in the UK!!! And if it's anything like here, TM has shot themselves in the foot very very badly!!

Thats good to know Brio .

I am hoping that the rest of the world follows suit . The more people asking questions the more chance this case can finally be solved and Madeleine will finally receive the justice she deserves and Brendas tragic death will not be in vain .

I think there will be a lot of people for want of a better phrase crapping their pants right now .

by Guest 08.10.14 8:49

I'm not sure that what they did is technically or legally stalking.

They were digging around in the social media and figuring it out.

People have been doing the same with Pamela Gurney.

I don't want MORE laws.

I want open free debate.

by **tigger** 08.10.14 8:50

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at say Editorial Intelligence (frequently a contradiction in terms..) or Common Purpose meetings.

Yes, I agree, regulation cannot be one sided, no regulation, other than the standards already in place should suffice.
Surely it's not difficult to filter out some words or phrases such as were used in the disgusting tweets posted by allegedly Gurney?

I can't be bothered to tweet that I am alive and well to counter a tweet telling lies about my avatar. Besides, I can't remember my password and I think my last tweet was nearly a year ago. Off you go then, Basilwhatever, work on that info.

Twitter is the equivalent of poison pen letters - a minority who will always feel the need to do this kind of thing.

Can you imagine a world where Twitter is used to bring us nothing but the 'truth'. According to whoever is in charge?

But stalking, posting personal information - 'outing' people is different and I thought illegal.

Twitter is only one of the ways into a person's private life, it would be good if internet providers were examined for leaks, after all, plenty of techies working there?
It would be one of the easiest ways into someone's private life.

Eta: a friend of mine made small spelling mistakes in his personal details (e.g. Wrong second initial) every time he gave details for anything, car insurance, internet provider, gas board) he was able to trace junk mail back to the source they got his name and address.

by The....truth 08.10.14 8:54

Freedom of speech is one thing.

In the UK (wiki)

there is a broad sweep of exceptions {to free speech} includingthreatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior intending or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress

On this forum I would say that these exceptions are not transgressed.

Looking, however briefly, at stuff coming from other directions however, you can see that others are less concerned with the law. The worst are the abusive tweets sent to Brenda Leyland. This stuff is excluded by law in the UK as being free speech. It is IMO clearly described by each and every of the six exceptions above.

What will happen ? Who will be prosecuted for these words ? Who will call these dogs off ?
IMO nobody.

Just waiting for the coroners report to ask for legal control of the Internet.

I’m glad to see the law around this area is being reviewed, but I do think we need to make examples of people who are causing damage.”

by frost 08.10.14 8:55

plebgate wrote:Didn't one of the messages also say that Brenda deserved to be raped? How sickening is that? I can't see that another woman would ever tweet something like that.

I saw someone tweet to say that they had reported the person who posted those absolutely foul and disgusting messages to the FBI.

Brenda's son is living in America, maybe he can sue the person or demand action against the tweeter.

Yes I believe one did and yes I find it hard to believe that another woman could post such a vile threat .

Lets hope the FBI do get involved maybe we need America to come along and save the day .

As for Brendas son I hope he takes legal action against everyone who has played a hand in this . To loose a parent is soul destroying but to loose a parent and then be catapulted onto the worlds stage I cannot even begin to imagine .

by Joss 08.10.14 8:57

plebgate wrote:Didn't one of the messages also say that Brenda deserved to be raped? How sickening is that? I can't see that another woman would ever tweet something like that.

I saw someone tweet to say that they had reported the person who posted those absolutely foul and disgusting messages to the FBI.

Brenda's son is living in America, maybe he can sue the person or demand action against the tweeter.

Yeah the whole thing was absolutely evil and one of the worst things i have ever read toward another on social media.

by Guest 08.10.14 8:58

tigger wrote:Can you imagine a world where Twitter is used to bring us nothing but the 'truth'. According to whoever is in charge?

Well if you listened to the last Tory conference I think some people are working on that.

George Orwell imagined it way back in 1948.

We have to fight for openness.

If it means debate gets dirty then we just have to remember "sticks and stones..."

People need to be more careful if they want to remain anonymous.

More regulation will not help ordinary people.

by BrokenBritain 08.10.14 9:18

If the police had investigated this crime properly in the first instance, and the government hadn't gotten involved, and the media reported the truth, then Brenda would still be alive imo. RIP Brenda.

by Lance De Boils 08.10.14 9:19

I don't think that accessing public records, or looking at unsecured social media can be described as stalking in any way.

The problems would arise, I believe, if information was accessed by illegal methods, such as hacking into accounts or accessing confidential information without permission.

by Joss 08.10.14 9:21

frost wrote:
plebgate wrote:Didn't one of the messages also say that Brenda deserved to be raped? How sickening is that? I can't see that another woman would ever tweet something like that.

I saw someone tweet to say that they had reported the person who posted those absolutely foul and disgusting messages to the FBI.

Brenda's son is living in America, maybe he can sue the person or demand action against the tweeter.

Yes I believe one did and yes I find it hard to believe that another woman could post such a vile threat .

Lets hope the FBI do get involved maybe we need America to come along and save the day .

As for Brendas son I hope he takes legal action against everyone who has played a hand in this . To loose a parent is soul destroying but to loose a parent and then be catapulted onto the worlds stage I cannot even begin to imagine .

That is a good point about her Son living in the States and perhaps the laws there are different concerning this type of matter? I also think that because the actions of some of these people stalking and then media harrassing Brenda because of it, is perhaps a different ball game because it culminated in her death, and that is a very serious matter as far as i'm concerned. Its one thing to post nasty comments in social media, but for things to get this bad where people are publicly shamed and intimidated and then turn up dead soon after that is crossing a big line.

by BrokenBritain 08.10.14 9:24

This scam went on for far too long and was encouraged to go on far too long by the police, the government, media and Clarence Mitchell - they are the ones to blame for the increasing questioning of the McCann's ludicrous versions of events on facebook and twitter and forum and blogs and the McCann supporters who kept prodding the anti's with sharp sticks.

Kate McCann once said there would be riots. Maybe there will if this doesn't stop.

My sincere condolences to Ben Leyland.

by frost 08.10.14 9:36

Lance De Boils wrote:I don't think that accessing public records, or looking at unsecured social media can be described as stalking in any way.

The problems would arise, I believe, if information was accessed by illegal methods, such as hacking into accounts or accessing confidential information without permission.

This is the point ive been trying to make . The police need to look into how all their information was obtained . If any of the photos or information has been obtained and is not available online then this needs looking into .

I saw a post saying about where Brenda worked as the person posting claimed they worked in the same place . Now if that person followed her took photos etc that would be classed as stalking .

Like you say if they have hacked any information or accessed confidential info without permission then these things need looking into . The person claiming to work in the same place may have had access to the computer system and gained her home address for example .

I know there is a lot of info on the internet and yes in some cases it is easy for folk to put 2&2 together but I do not believe they could have found all the details out they have purely and simply by surfing the net .

by Guest 08.10.14 9:40

plebgate wrote:Didn't one of the messages also say that Brenda deserved to be raped? How sickening is that? I can't see that another woman would ever tweet something like that.

I disagree Plebgate (BTW just realised I don't know what side of that gender divide you're on! That's not me asking BTW - it doesn't matter at all!) I think that kind of abuse is more likely to come from a woman than a man. Thinking back to some bullying incidences I heard about at school, girls/women are far more creative and more vindictive generally - ie. without wanting to put you off your lunch, but stuff like sending people used, er..., "sanitary products" in the post.... And what is an old woman, but a teenage girl with experience?

by HelenMeg 08.10.14 9:44

BrokenBritain wrote:If the police had investigated this crime properly in the first instance, and the government hadn't gotten involved, and the media reported the truth, then Brenda would still be alive imo. RIP Brenda.

Am in total agreement. We have to keep the wider picture in mind. This has only happened because of the initial political interference into justice running its natural course. Political interference prevented PJ from completing a proper investigation into what happened to M.
This death occurred because people know that and are not happy with that.
Only DC can resolved this matter and he should feel pressured to enable a proper investigation - not an investigation which aims solely to investigate the 'abduction'. There was no abduction IMO and most of the worlds, come to that. IMO IMO IOO

by Lance De Boils 08.10.14 10:16

frost wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:I don't think that accessing public records, or looking at unsecured social media can be described as stalking in any way.

The problems would arise, I believe, if information was accessed by illegal methods, such as hacking into accounts or accessing confidential information without permission.

This is the point ive been trying to make . The police need to look into how all their information was obtained . If any of the photos or information has been obtained and is not available online then this needs looking into .

I saw a post saying about where Brenda worked as the person posting claimed they worked in the same place . Now if that person followed her took photos etc that would be classed as stalking .

Like you say if they have hacked any information or accessed confidential info without permission then these things need looking into . The person claiming to work in the same place may have had access to the computer system and gained her home address for example .

I know there is a lot of info on the internet and yes in some cases it is easy for folk to put 2&2 together but I do not believe they could have found all the details out they have purely and simply by surfing the net .

Agreed.

If it's straightforward, then who am I?

[nb Before even looking, I am obliging you to agree to keep any data on me completely confidential.]

If someone figures it out, please send me a private message. You must be prepared to explain step-by-step how you worked it out, in a way that I can easily and legally verify myself.

Get it right and I'll believe that it really is that simple.

*This post will self-destruct*

by **PeterMac** 08.10.14 10:28

Lance De Boils wrote:
If it's straightforward, then who am I?

Easy. You are Lance de Boils. It says so at the start of your post, and your photo appears on the right hand side
and I claim my five pounds !

by Lance De Boils 08.10.14 10:44

Damn you and your investigative experience, PM! big grin

by Guest 08.10.14 14:07

Lance De Boils wrote:

If it's straightforward, then who am I?

[nb Before even looking, I am obliging you to agree to keep any data on me completely confidential.]

If someone figures it out, please send me a private message. You must be prepared to explain step-by-step how you worked it out, in a way that I can easily and legally verify myself.

Get it right and I'll believe that it really is that simple.

*This post will self-destruct*

Haha, who was the nutter who posted their real name and address up in response to a post from Aquila? They're much braver/stupider than me...

But stuff does leak out over time, even if you're careful. As it happens I'm not careful and quite a few people know my real identity. I'd stand by anything I had to say on here in "real" life though. If people want to be all subversive and play secret squirrel then that's their problem.

by galena 08.10.14 17:08

I never comment on posts about the McCanns on Facebook or any other possibly controversial issue. I keep my facebook persona bland and neutral, giving away little or nothing about my true self. It's very easy to guess someone's true identity by the way they express themselves when they post both on Facebook and internet forums about the same issue. Too many people seem to treat posting on Facebook and Twitter like having no-holds barred conversation with their mates down the pub, I treat it more like an online CV showing me at my very best. I'm really shocked at the way some people spill out any mean-minded, spiteful thought they might have under their own name, as if it could never come back to haunt them. Yes I have some of those thoughts too, but they go through an editing process before I commit them to print.

Same rule applies to email - I've had access to email since the late 80s and I would never dream of posting any disparaging thought about a senior manager, though I certainly might slag them off to close colleagues whom I trust ...